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Post by think2much on May 12, 2006 15:44:22 GMT -5
I thought I'd start a new thread, since "Easter Eggs" hardly seems like an appropriate title for a topic that has devolved to the pros and cons of spanking.
So...
For those of you who were raised in the f&w church: 1) Were you spanked by your parents? 2) Do you feel spanking is appropriate in some cases? 3) Do you feel your relationship with your parents suffered (if you were a "spankee") because you were spanked? Or was it enhanced (added respect for authority, etc)? 4) Do you spank your kids? 5) Do you believe the verse "spare the rod, spoil the child" is referring to spanking?
For our purposes here, spanking means a few well-placed swats on the bottom with the hand. We're not talking about beating kids with a belt till they have welts or punching them with a clenched fist, lashing out in anger, etc.
And so nobody thinks I'm just stirring the pot, here are my answers to above questions:
1) Yes 2) Yes 3) I honestly think it enhanced my respect for my dad, even though I don't remember any specific spankings (in other words, the rules were enforced but I don't hold negative images from it) 4) Occasionally 5) I'm not convinced either way on that one
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Post by amazed on May 12, 2006 16:08:09 GMT -5
1) Yes 2) Yes 3) No, Yes 4) Yes 5) Yes
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Post by mrleo on May 12, 2006 16:41:13 GMT -5
1) Yes 2) Yes 3) Not sure 4) N/A, although I think I would be inclined to, which is one reason I'm glad I'm not a parent. 5) It seems to be referring to corporal punishment of some sort. What else would you use a rod for in terms of correction...drawing a diagram in the dirt...pointing emphatically, maybe?
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Post by happy on May 12, 2006 17:16:02 GMT -5
1. Yes 2. not really 3. No 4. No 5. No
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Post by Gene on May 12, 2006 17:48:37 GMT -5
1. yes 2. yes 3. yes yes 4. no, I squirt them with a water bottle and occasionally gently nudge them out of the way with my foot 5. yes
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Post by ddd on May 12, 2006 17:53:31 GMT -5
You better believe it! You bet your ass! Nope You better believe it! YEP!
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Post by chiquilla on May 12, 2006 18:06:24 GMT -5
I thought I'd start a new thread, since "Easter Eggs" hardly seems like an appropriate title for a topic that has devolved to the pros and cons of spanking. So... For those of you who were raised in the f&w church: 1) Were you spanked by your parents? 2) Do you feel spanking is appropriate in some cases? 3) Do you feel your relationship with your parents suffered (if you were a "spankee") because you were spanked? Or was it enhanced (added respect for authority, etc)? 4) Do you spank your kids? 5) Do you believe the verse "spare the rod, spoil the child" is referring to spanking? 1) Yes, infrequently. 2) Yes 3) no, and no. 4) Don't have any, but I frequently take care of children, and think that 95 percent of the time there are better ways of disciplining then spanking: the "punishment" should fit the "crime"-- if you threw it on the floor, you have to pick it up, if you hurt someone you have to say you're sorry, if you painted crayon on the wall you have to help scrub it off, etc. The other 5%, a swat on the behind never hurt anybody, IMO. As a non-parent, I can't spank somebody else's kid, so I've become creative in disciplining kids and re-directing their behavior without using physical punishment. 5) I think that verse refers to all discipline, corporal or not. If you don't discipline a child (e.g. teach them that behaviors have consequences), you are hurting them. If you think about the rod that a shepherd used, it was not just or usually used to hit the sheep, but to guide them, prod them forward and snatch them out of danger. I'm kind of ambivalent about spanking. But I think overall that it's better to spank a kid than to yell at them and tell them they're bad.
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Post by think2much on May 12, 2006 18:15:47 GMT -5
An interesting side note.... Sweden banned corporal punishment in 1979 even in private homes. Since then their child abuse cases have skyrocketed. Is it related? Who knows, but here's an interesting link that discusses the issue: people.biola.edu/faculty/paulp/sweden.html
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Post by bowhunter on May 12, 2006 20:45:46 GMT -5
1.Yes 2.Yes 3.Enhanced 4.Yes 5.Yes
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Post by Gene on May 12, 2006 20:58:00 GMT -5
An interesting side note.... Sweden banned corporal punishment in 1979 even in private homes. Since then their child abuse cases have skyrocketed. Is it related? Who knows, but here's an interesting link that discusses the issue: people.biola.edu/faculty/paulp/sweden.htmlOf COURSE it's related -- if for no other reason, simply because corporal punishment, by being made illegal, was from that point forward characterized as child abuse!
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Post by think2much on May 12, 2006 21:06:19 GMT -5
An interesting side note.... Sweden banned corporal punishment in 1979 even in private homes. Since then their child abuse cases have skyrocketed. Is it related? Who knows, but here's an interesting link that discusses the issue: people.biola.edu/faculty/paulp/sweden.htmlOf COURSE it's related -- if for no other reason, simply because corporal punishment, by being made illegal, was from that point forward characterized as child abuse! You might read the article before you come to that conclusion...
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Post by Gene on May 12, 2006 22:18:44 GMT -5
Of COURSE it's related -- if for no other reason, simply because corporal punishment, by being made illegal, was from that point forward characterized as child abuse! You might read the article before you come to that conclusion... I did read it -- well, I skimmed it. The article is not clear on whether the legal definition of abuse changed to include corporal punishment after the law was passed. It does, however, state that: "The most relevant statistics we have obtained from Sweden are police-record trends in physical abuse of children under 7 years of age (Wittrock, 1992, 1995). Those records showed a 489% increase in the child abuse rate from 1981 to 1994...." My assumption (which may be wrong) is that corporal punishment became abuse when it became illegal.
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Post by Seabisquit on May 13, 2006 8:31:05 GMT -5
1.) Yes 2.) Yes 3.) No, it didn't suffer, it was enhanced 4.) Yes, more so when they were little, now that they are older, other more creative discipline seems to work better 5.) Yes
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2006 9:34:47 GMT -5
1 Yes -- but very very seldom 2 Possibly .. I am not really sure -- In any case it is illegal in our country 3 I don't think the little we recieved made much difference at all -- but it was part of the cultural respect system in our country at the time. 4 No - not directly as such 5 I am not sure what verse you are refering to!! My bible doesn't seem to have that verse!
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dea
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Post by dea on May 13, 2006 11:22:50 GMT -5
1. yes 2. rarely 3. absolutely. We always had the threat of a spanking of our head. Between verbal, emotional and physical abuse or threats, I started hurting myself. While it's very complicated, part of it has to do with, "whatever I can do to myself, would be worse than what anyone else could do to me. Therefore, I know what the worst is." 4. n/a 5. discipline not hitting
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Post by happy on May 13, 2006 21:19:27 GMT -5
Proverbs 13:24Whoever spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him.
(for Edgar) I think this is the one being talked about. I don't believe the rod is for beating, myself. I believe in teaching discipline other ways.
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Post by NoHitting on May 13, 2006 22:36:28 GMT -5
I loved timeout. It gave me time to scheme and think about how I was gonna get away with it the next time. (Course that eventually ended me up in juvy-hall, but hey, live and learn).
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IQ
Senior Member
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Post by IQ on May 13, 2006 22:40:09 GMT -5
Until morals improve, the beatings will continue!
Spoked by Gene Nelson when leading a pack of wolves to their prey!
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Post by Gene on May 14, 2006 2:22:14 GMT -5
Until morals improve, the beatings will continue! Spoked by Gene Nelson when leading a pack of wolves to their prey! Hey, careful there -- Peter has rights to all of my material.. He may even have copyright on it. I sold it all to him in a fit of penury.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 14, 2006 2:26:35 GMT -5
Proverbs 13:24Whoever spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is diligent to discipline him. (for Edgar) I think this is the one being talked about. I don't believe the rod is for beating, myself. I believe in teaching discipline other ways. Thanks Happy
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Post by Gene on May 14, 2006 11:08:40 GMT -5
... 5 I am not sure what verse you are refering to!! My bible doesn't seem to have that verse! ... "Love is a boy by poets styled; Then spare the rod, and spoil the child." Written by Samuel Butler, 1612-1680 From Hudibras, pt II, canto I, l 843Now for the fascinating context of those lines: It appears that Hudibras, the Knight Errant, has been imprisoned by a magician's spell. The Lady comes along, they have a lengthy conversation about love and freedom, and Lady agrees to release the Knight and marry him upon the condition that he submit himself to a whipping. Then it gets kinky. Turns out that the whipping scene has nothing to do with rasing children, but rather about raising "passion in a Lady's heart"! Prepare to be entertained, and read on..... "Whipping, that's Virtue's governess, Tutress of arts and sciences; That mends the gross mistakes of Nature, And puts new life into dull matter; That lays foundation for renown, 815 And all the honours of the gown. This suffer'd, they (knights imprisoned ) are set at large, And freed with hon'rable discharge. ... Now if you'll venture, for my sake, 825 To try the toughness of your back, And suffer (as the rest have done) The laying of a whipping on, (And may you prosper in your suit, As you with equal vigour do't,) 830 I here engage myself to loose ye, And free your heels from Caperdewsie. ... If matrimony and hanging go By dest'ny, why not whipping too? 840 What med'cine else can cure the fits Of lovers when they lose their wits? Love is a boy by poets stil'd; Then spare the rod and spoil the child. ... 850 Why may not whipping have as good A grace, perform'd in time and mood, With comely movement, and by art, Raise passion in a lady's heart? It is an easier way to make 855 Love by, than that which many take. www.exclassics.com/hudibras/hbii1.htm
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Post by Peter on May 14, 2006 11:25:03 GMT -5
InnocentQ, please do not infiltrate Gene Nelson sayings territory again. I jealously observe my "sole" right to reproduce that material whenever I so wish. Take heed of this warning, otherwise legal action may ensue !
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Post by hawk on May 14, 2006 21:02:54 GMT -5
Such a delicious topic! I wonder if there is a connection between spankings and sex addicts. If children are spanked, do they turn into adults with wild sexual fantasies? Hmmmm . .
To those of you who are against spanking: You are the reason kids today have no respect. Hopefully none of these spoiled brats today will hold presidential positions in the future. These children are not a hopeful future.
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Post by nitro on May 14, 2006 21:39:39 GMT -5
Seems I never had to spank. No need too. I thought about this and why some kids thrive in a non- violent enviroment. Last Week the 7th grade class had awards night. I was a proud parent of a 13 year old that received all A's for the year. Waiting for the Award ceremony to be over one last Award was to be given. The Award was the leadership Award one that teachers give to the one that takes charge and can depend on.As the teacher called out my daughters name I couldn't have been more proud and the feeling of being blessed. Jesus taught with compassion and love. I long to be more like Jesus and teach not by fear but of Love. nitro
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Post by GetAClueNitro on May 15, 2006 0:05:06 GMT -5
Seems I never had to spank. No need too. I thought about this and why some kids thrive in a non- violent enviroment. Last Week the 7th grade class had awards night. I was a proud parent of a 13 year old that received all A's for the year. Waiting for the Award ceremony to be over one last Award was to be given. The Award was the leadership Award one that teachers give to the one that takes charge and can depend on.As the teacher called out my daughters name I couldn't have been more proud and the feeling of being blessed. Jesus taught with compassion and love. I long to be more like Jesus and teach not by fear but of Love. nitro It's amazing how some parents think that all kids on earth are wired just like theirs! News flash nitro: kids are different. I've seen children for whom spanking was very necessary and others for whom it seemed less important, if required at all. Are you really so narrow that you think everyone is the same? We are not clones. I have three children. All three of them were very stubborn, just like their mother and I. Teaching them self respect and self discipline took spanking. They turned out fine. My brother had one child, and he and his wife always said that they considered spanking a very real option... they just never had to use it. Their child turned out fine as well. I pity folks like you, nitro, so narrow minded that you think your experiences are the end-all to any issue.
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Post by bowhunter on May 15, 2006 17:55:04 GMT -5
Seems I never had to spank. No need too. I thought about this and why some kids thrive in a non- violent enviroment. Last Week the 7th grade class had awards night. I was a proud parent of a 13 year old that received all A's for the year. Waiting for the Award ceremony to be over one last Award was to be given. The Award was the leadership Award one that teachers give to the one that takes charge and can depend on.As the teacher called out my daughters name I couldn't have been more proud and the feeling of being blessed. Jesus taught with compassion and love. I long to be more like Jesus and teach not by fear but of Love. nitro Jesus wasn't a parent but He had them.I suspect He would have recieved a swat or two-afterall,He had a human nature.
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Post by nitro on May 15, 2006 18:14:51 GMT -5
Bowhunter we are all his children. As parents, we are required to show to our child the same grace in discipline that God has shown us. Since we no longer live under the Old Law, punishment is something we cannot embrace. That does not mean we do not discipline at all, but simply that we do not punish as part of that discipline.
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Post by nitro on May 15, 2006 18:31:52 GMT -5
Seems I never had to spank. No need too. I thought about this and why some kids thrive in a non- violent enviroment. Last Week the 7th grade class had awards night. I was a proud parent of a 13 year old that received all A's for the year. Waiting for the Award ceremony to be over one last Award was to be given. The Award was the leadership Award one that teachers give to the one that takes charge and can depend on.As the teacher called out my daughters name I couldn't have been more proud and the feeling of being blessed. Jesus taught with compassion and love. I long to be more like Jesus and teach not by fear but of Love. nitro It's amazing how some parents think that all kids on earth are wired just like theirs! News flash nitro: kids are different. I've seen children for whom spanking was very necessary and others for whom it seemed less important, if required at all. Are you really so narrow that you think everyone is the same? We are not clones. I have three children. All three of them were very stubborn, just like their mother and I. Teaching them self respect and self discipline took spanking. They turned out fine. My brother had one child, and he and his wife always said that they considered spanking a very real option... they just never had to use it. Their child turned out fine as well. I pity folks like you, nitro, so narrow minded that you think your experiences are the end-all to any issue. Im sure you take the bible as a whole and not just pick verses . Here's a verse you sound like you could live by ------- Deuteronomy 21:18-21 (King James Version) King James Version (KJV) Public Domain 18If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: 19Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; 20And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. 21And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear
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