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Post by Rob O on Aug 13, 2006 22:06:54 GMT -5
FWIW, the doctrines I currently feel comfortable classifiying as essential to salvation are: 1. Belief in the existence of God. 2. Salvation by grace through faith alone. 3. The atonement. We understand that we are sinful, in need of a Savior, and Christ's blood atones for our sin. 4. Jesus lived, died and was resurrected. I have been including Christ's deity, but I'm not certain that a person really needs to understand that to be saved. I know some feel it should be there and I have, also. At the very least, his deity needs to be accepted to continue in orthodoxy. Zorro, I will add my agreement to these as essentials. I too am borderline on the deity of Christ. I think someone can be saved without accepting or knowing about it. But I do not think someone who is saved will continually reject it.....it is such a primary part of His identity and anyone who claims to know Him will surely come to know this about Him. The person who consistently rejects it and even labels it as false, well, how can they claim to be a follower of Him if they refuse to come to know Him? What would my wife think if I persistently rejected some vital part of her identity?
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Post by Greg Lee unplugged on Aug 13, 2006 22:11:21 GMT -5
Again I wonder if those that contend Jesus was just a man that had to be perfect in sinless are works oriented and dismiss grace as the so-called license to sin of some.
I also wonder if Jesus should have said "Depart from me for you never knew me."
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Post by Old Bean on Aug 13, 2006 22:58:58 GMT -5
I would agree with these, but would also add the Salvation is only found in Jesus Christ. As far as the deity of Christ goes- while I can see the scenario where one does not believe in, or accept the full deity of Christ, what I have actually seen is that this understanding opens the door to really understanding and growing in one's faith. While I would not be quick to judge a person as non Christian who did not hold to the deity of Christ, I would really seek an understanding of their position on this. I do think that this is a pivotal issue, and I do believe that it is on the borderline of essential doctrine. (Yes, in my world, it is leaning towards essential...) Flame away... Karl I am not entirely clear about the trinity either. My experience as a 2x2, I didn't realize that Christ was divine until I was nearly 40. If God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are one (as has been explained to me by some), then how does this verse apply? Matt 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone". This seems to indicate that even the Son doesn't know when his Father is going to have him return which says to me they are 2 separate beings. Old Bean
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Post by studylearning on Aug 14, 2006 0:06:36 GMT -5
I would agree with these, but would also add the Salvation is only found in Jesus Christ. As far as the deity of Christ goes- while I can see the scenario where one does not believe in, or accept the full deity of Christ, what I have actually seen is that this understanding opens the door to really understanding and growing in one's faith. While I would not be quick to judge a person as non Christian who did not hold to the deity of Christ, I would really seek an understanding of their position on this. I do think that this is a pivotal issue, and I do believe that it is on the borderline of essential doctrine. (Yes, in my world, it is leaning towards essential...) Flame away... Karl I am not entirely clear about the trinity either. My experience as a 2x2, I didn't realize that Christ was divine until I was nearly 40. If God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are one (as has been explained to me by some), then how does this verse apply? Matt 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone". This seems to indicate that even the Son doesn't know when his Father is going to have him return which says to me they are 2 separate beings. Old Bean From another source to Old Bean Question: "If Jesus was God, why did He not know when He would return?" Answer: Speaking of Jesus' Second Coming, Matthew 24:36 (and Mark 13:32) tells us, “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” Although this is indeed a difficult concept to understand, we must accept the reality by faith. Matthew 24:36 clearly states that the Father alone knows when Jesus' return will be. Verses such as John 5:30; 6:38; 8:28-29; 10:30; 12:49; 14:28, 31; and Matthew 26:39, 42 demonstrate Jesus' submission to the Father as well as their Oneness in the Godhead. Yes, they are both God. But some things Jesus had apparently chosen to "give up the rights" to be privy to during His earthly ministry (see Philippians 2:5-11). Jesus, now exalted in Heaven, surely knows all, including the timing of His Second Coming.
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