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Post by ithascome on Apr 16, 2006 16:39:32 GMT -5
Matthew 27:57 When evening had come, a rich man from Arimathaea, named Joseph, who himself was also Jesus' disciple came.
What do Workers have to say about this rich worker?
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Post by Simple on Apr 16, 2006 17:11:16 GMT -5
Matthew 27:57 When evening had come, a rich man from Arimathaea, named Joseph, who himself was also Jesus' disciple came. What do Workers have to say about this rich worker? Since when does it matter to the workers what the bible says? (Except to promote themselves!) So many who follow them are more afraid of being denied by the workers than being denied by Christ. The workers ministry and gospel is of the devil, not Jesus. They have got enough souls snagged in their webs of lies to live fat dumb and happy, so far................
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Post by ithascome on Apr 16, 2006 17:20:20 GMT -5
According to this web page www.biblefacts.org/myth/j_arimathea.htm this same rich disciple built the first Christian Church (above ground) in the world. (see picture of ruins) This may be a myth, but according to some historians it is fact. What do the workers say about Joseph? ... did he go wrong when he decided to build a church building? I would not go that far. I ask the questions in hopes to have some positive communication.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2006 19:14:12 GMT -5
What do Workers have to say about this rich worker? Why don't you ask them? Why ask here when you know there is not serious discussion here?
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Yellow
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Post by Yellow on Apr 16, 2006 19:16:42 GMT -5
This is only my opinion because I've never asked a worker this question, but I'd say they wouldn't believe the story of Joseph building a church building. Or if they did, it would be that he hadn't really been a worker, or had left off following Christ.
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Yellow
Junior Member
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Post by Yellow on Apr 16, 2006 19:19:17 GMT -5
ithascome is obviously hoping those who love the good discussions of the past on this board will contribute the same again. And maybe that those who don't, will keep quiet for a time.
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Post by ithascome on Apr 16, 2006 19:23:32 GMT -5
I can answer that... none live or work in my area. I have no contact with any of the friends other than the few that I see who post here.
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Post by ithascome on Apr 16, 2006 20:58:09 GMT -5
I can see that (about a building) because it is not mentioned in the Bible. But how do they account for the fact that Joseph owned property and did not sell it when he became a disciple... Why was he still a rich man?
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Post by oneof the guests on Apr 16, 2006 22:02:15 GMT -5
Looks like another rally of posts without due merit again. Will people ever learn? suppose not. sigh
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Post by ithascome on Apr 16, 2006 22:21:15 GMT -5
without due merit... hmm.... Trying to get to the real truth....
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Post by Simple on Apr 16, 2006 22:38:16 GMT -5
without due merit... hmm.... Trying to get to the real truth.... They must keep their verbage vague, to create and maintain the illusions they have grown accustomed to.
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Post by Greg Lee unplugged on Apr 16, 2006 23:22:40 GMT -5
Matthew 27:57 When evening had come, a rich man from Arimathaea, named Joseph, who himself was also Jesus' disciple came. What do Workers have to say about this rich worker? Joseph would be considered one of the saints, not a worker. He would be similar to Mary, Martha, and Lazarus.
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Post by guesty on Apr 16, 2006 23:28:47 GMT -5
Duhhh...
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Post by it on Apr 16, 2006 23:30:42 GMT -5
Matthew 27:57 When evening had come, a rich man from Arimathaea, named Joseph, who himself was also Jesus' disciple came. What do Workers have to say about this rich worker? it says that Joseph was just a disciple, not one preaching the Gospel
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Post by ithascome on Apr 17, 2006 0:38:59 GMT -5
Joseph of Arimathaea was an 'undercover Christian'. He was a secret disciple. Joseph was not alone in this. Nicodemus was another secret disciple. Peter was afraid to identify publicly with Christ and denied Him three times. The rest of the disciples hid "the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews". (Jn 20:19) Everybody at one time or another was a secret disciple.
(John 7:13) Howbeit no man spake openly of him (Jesus) for fear of the Jews.
However, Joseph acted contrary to the other disciples, especially Peter. Peter spoke out boldly, but he became afraid. Matt. 26:31-35 Joseph was a secret disciple, but he became bold. Joseph did not allow fear to cause him to join in with Jesus' enemies. In his own way he was a very strong preacher that not only spoke out, but acted on his word. Remember, it was Jesus, by what He taught and did, who gave Joseph courage.
Re: Mary, Martha, and Lazarus ... you may have under estimated their involvement .... I think they did preach... there are records that indicate that they went to the South of France to spread the Word after Jesus' death along with Joseph and others.
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BC
Senior Member
Posts: 852
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Post by BC on Apr 17, 2006 3:27:54 GMT -5
Matthew 27:57 When evening had come, a rich man from Arimathaea, named Joseph, who himself was also Jesus' disciple came. What do Workers have to say about this rich worker? Hi, A disciple was not necessarily a preacher but rather a follower of the teachings of Jesus. The Apostles were the sent preachers. Some disciples preached but that was entirely off their own bat. [shadow=red,left,300]Regards BC[/shadow]
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Post by I on Apr 17, 2006 3:47:54 GMT -5
Joseph of Arimathaea was an 'undercover Christian'. He was a secret disciple. Joseph was not alone in this. Nicodemus was another secret disciple. Peter was afraid to identify publicly with Christ and denied Him three times. The rest of the disciples hid "the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews". (Jn 20:19) Everybody at one time or another was a secret disciple. (John 7:13) Howbeit no man spake openly of him (Jesus) for fear of the Jews. However, Joseph acted contrary to the other disciples, especially Peter. Peter spoke out boldly, but he became afraid. Matt. 26:31-35 Joseph was a secret disciple, but he became bold. Joseph did not allow fear to cause him to join in with Jesus' enemies. In his own way he was a very strong preacher that not only spoke out, but acted on his word. Remember, it was Jesus, by what He taught and did, who gave Joseph courage. Re: Mary, Martha, and Lazarus ... you may have under estimated their involvement .... I think they did preach... there are records that indicate that they went to the South of France to spread the Word after Jesus' death along with Joseph and others. I do notice that you say, [ I think they did preach] there is a big difference betweem I think and true fact. Your I think could be false
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Post by Greg Lee unplugged on Apr 17, 2006 6:06:37 GMT -5
Re: Mary, Martha, and Lazarus ... you may have under estimated their involvement .... John, you asked "What do Workers have to say about this rich worker?" I responded with that question in mind. You should read responses with that question in mind. I did not give my opnion on Joseph, Mary, Martha, and Lazarus, but I gavem my opinion on the workers' opinion (in general) of Joseph, Mary, martha, and Lazarus. Yet maybe I misunderstood your question?
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Post by ithascome on Apr 17, 2006 19:24:04 GMT -5
Yes the "I think" could be false .. it could be true or it could be a fact derived from a myth. I have done a great deal of study of historical writings that were written after the death of Jesus. Perhaps some of you could read some of the "Lost Books of the Bible". It would not hurt to read some of the Catholic beliefs as well. I am not saying these writings are entirely fact. Medieval writings are very interesting to me. Yet, while little is written about Joseph in the Gospels themselves, he was a popular figure in both apocryphal (non-canonical ) accounts ("Gospel of Nicodemus", "The Narrative of Joseph"), and in numerous medieval Arthurian epics, including Mallory's "Le Morte D'Arthur", and Robert de Boron's "Joseph d'Arimathie".
Joseph is a quite remarkable figure - his exploits (in various accounts) include:
Founder of the first Christian Church in England
Keeper of the Holy Grail, the Cup from the Last Supper of Christ
Uncle of Mary, Mother of Jesus, Jesus's great Uncle
Merchant involved in the tin trade between the West coast of England, and the Mediterranean - took the boy Jesus to Cornwall and/or Somerset in England sometime between the ages of 12 and 30
Ancestor of Sir Lancelot & Sir Galahad of Arthurian fame
Do you think all these writings are false.... I am not sure... some of them could be true. Back to the "I think" they seem reasonably credible (although not absolutely provable).
There are some writings that say that Joseph was "Not one of the twelve, but perhaps one of the seventy". Perhaps.... Perhaps not. It is up to what you want to believe.
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Post by ithascome on Apr 17, 2006 20:11:01 GMT -5
Greg Lee
Sorry ... I agree with what you wrote about what the workers would think or say.
The workers also discourage reading anything that is not from the Bible. Which Bible? I have often wondered how the Workers decided whose canon they should use. I was surprised when I found out that different religious groups of the Judeo-Christian tradition have different biblical canons.
BC
Although it is not in the Bible there are early historical sources that report that Joseph of Arimathea went on a preaching mission to Gaul with the apostle Phillip, Mary Magdalene, Lazarus, and others sometime between the years A.D. 37 and A.D. 63 (the year is in dispute). At Marseilles, Lazarus and Mary parted company with the main group who continued on further up North. When Joseph's party reached the English Channel, Phillip sent Joseph with 12 disciples to the furthest corner of the Roman Empire, the Island of the Britons.
It is not completely provable ... much like many of the things that are written in the Bible... it is all a matter of what you want to believe.
Anyway... I have enjoyed this study... even though most of you here do not agree with my perception. That's OK!!!
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BC
Senior Member
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Post by BC on Apr 18, 2006 2:55:20 GMT -5
Ithascome, Thanks for that. Sometimes we skim over things we know so well and miss the real essence of what is meant. Other times we put our blinkers on and forget that there were other writers in Jesus time and even before that have recorded facts that are not in the Bible. The Bible is not the only historical book that we can enter in to the happenings of that time through. What books do you recommend for the uneducated wanting to find out a little of the history of the biblical error?
[shadow=red,left,300]Regards BC[/shadow]
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Post by Greg Lee unplugged on Apr 18, 2006 6:21:40 GMT -5
It is not completely provable ... much like many of the things that are written in the Bible... it is all a matter of what you want to believe. For some their understanding is what they want to believe (NB and the 2&2 ministry for one). For some their understanding is simply what makes sense.
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Post by does on Apr 18, 2006 17:40:10 GMT -5
It is not completely provable ... much like many of the things that are written in the Bible... it is all a matter of what you want to believe. For some their understanding is what they want to believe (NB and the 2&2 ministry for one). For some their understanding is simply what makes sense. does it make sense that Jesus went to England whem I doubt they would have been able to comunicate with those people? do you think it was His Fathers business for Him to go to England? I read in the Bible that Jesus came to bring salvation to the Jews first, not to be of swanning around the world amongst the heathen. for me it goes the same for the others. there was not wealth for a start off to be traveling on. so i disagree on just simple reading of the bible that those excurtions would have been beyond their means.
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Post by Greg Lee unplugged on Apr 18, 2006 18:36:01 GMT -5
there was not wealth for a start off to be traveling on. Remember Jesus was given riches after his birth. In addition, he had a seamless cloak at the time of the crucifixion which was coveted by the Ronman soldiers. I think Jesus might have gone anywhere and many places before starting his teaching of the 12 and 72.
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Post by yea on Apr 18, 2006 19:52:31 GMT -5
there was not wealth for a start off to be traveling on. Remember Jesus was given riches after his birth. In addition, he had a seamless cloak at the time of the crucifixion which was coveted by the Ronman soldiers. I think Jesus might have gone anywhere and many places before starting his teaching of the 12 and 72. yea but what about the communication? and do you think Jesus would have kept those riches when asking others to give up theirs? what money do you think Mary and Joseph used when they had to flee and go to Egypt? did His seemless cloak signify that He had riches? how did He get the cloak? did He buy it? was it given to Him?
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Post by ithascome on Apr 18, 2006 20:06:56 GMT -5
BC here are two books to start with.
Lost Books of the Bible by William Hone
LOST SCRIPTURES: Books That Did Not Make It Into The New Testament by Bart D Ehrman
You can easily see that many Lost Books were fanciful copycats of the time. Although some of these Lost Books might fit into the Bible as we know it, others are tangential novelettes that take off into another universe.
Oh Yes! Here is one I like.
The Birth of the Church: From Jesus to Constantine, A.D. 30-312 By: Ivor J. Davidson
It explores the first 300 years of church history.
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Post by ithascome on Apr 18, 2006 20:20:40 GMT -5
Well if you believe that Joseph of Arimathea was Jesus' Great Uncle ...He was a Merchant involved in the tin trade between the West coast of England, and the Mediterranean, and he was a rich man as the Bible says... It all falls into place... Yes, Jesus could have gone to England.
Re: the Cloak The fact that the cloak was seamless does not mean it was expensive. If it was the Jewish police who arrested him would have stolen it from him.
That cloak did have a great deal of sacred value... remember the story of the woman who was healed by merely touching the hem of Jesus' cloak. I am sure there would have been a lot of people that would have liked to have that garment. Maybe the Roman solders were just bored and that is why they cast lots for it or.. maybe they were instructed to do away with it so someone else could not take it and claim they were the risen Jesus.
Re: Mary and Joseph's money The poor people of the day did not register for the Census, so they could be taxed. They ran away and hid. We know that Joseph and Mary registered in their hometown. So that tells us that they may have had money. Remember Joseph was a carpenter.
Re: Jesus and his disciples being poor (Luke 9:13), Jesus first told the disciples “‘You give them something to eat.’ And they said, ‘We have no more than five loaves and two fish, unless perhaps we go and buy food for all these people’”.
They obviously had enough money to consider buying food for more than 5000 people!
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Post by yea on Apr 19, 2006 16:37:29 GMT -5
Well if you believe that Joseph of Arimathea was Jesus' Great Uncle ...He was a Merchant involved in the tin trade between the West coast of England, and the Mediterranean, and he was a rich man as the Bible says... It all falls into place... Yes, Jesus could have gone to England. Re: the Cloak The fact that the cloak was seamless does not mean it was expensive. If it was the Jewish police who arrested him would have stolen it from him. That cloak did have a great deal of sacred value... remember the story of the woman who was healed by merely touching the hem of Jesus' cloak. I am sure there would have been a lot of people that would have liked to have that garment. Maybe the Roman solders were just bored and that is why they cast lots for it or.. maybe they were instructed to do away with it so someone else could not take it and claim they were the risen Jesus. Re: Mary and Joseph's money The poor people of the day did not register for the Census, so they could be taxed. They ran away and hid. We know that Joseph and Mary registered in their hometown. So that tells us that they may have had money. Remember Joseph was a carpenter. Re: Jesus and his disciples being poor (Luke 9:13), Jesus first told the disciples “‘You give them something to eat.’ And they said, ‘We have no more than five loaves and two fish, unless perhaps we go and buy food for all these people’”. They obviously had enough money to consider buying food for more than 5000 people! yea but what about the communication?
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