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Post by elizabethcoleman on Aug 13, 2015 22:13:03 GMT -5
An apostate is a person. A cult is a religion. You have no idea how some of those professing women get the hairdos they get -- they've got the workers totally fooled. Have you ever gone to the mall in a skirt when it's -20 degrees. Shame shame. Ever have a sister worker come to your house after a gospel meeting and ask for a beer? Aren't you pure? Oh dear, sarcasm fail. I heard the sarcasm, Fred!
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 13, 2015 22:37:01 GMT -5
That depends on your definition of bitter. But because you said that, one can tell that you're an ex. I'm not sure I'm reading that right but I'm not an exe. Well, in that case, you rise to the head of the class.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 13, 2015 22:38:25 GMT -5
Maybe more real than she thinks. I wonder if Islam will be to the Gentiles what the Romans were to the Jews? Bert -- if you don't stop posting pictures of your girlfriend her brothers are going to come looking for you.
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Post by blandie on Aug 13, 2015 22:38:46 GMT -5
A bitter experience does not have to make the person who had the experience bitter. I think becoming or being bitter is a personal and free will choice. That depends on your definition of bitter. But because you said that, one can tell that you're an ex. When a worker describes someone as bitter it's normally because the ex has disagreed with him -- you don't really have to tell them off to be considered bitter, just refuse to accept their evaluation of you. I'm also wondering where in the bible is there a person who is described as bitter? As Jesse L. said experiences can be bitter - aka painful - and tastes can be bitter - aka painfully bad tasting - but thats a great question about whats the definition of this yet another piece of jargon---what's being said when F&W's instead slap the label 'bitter' on people instead of experiences and taste? I associate it with people who have been hurt and are hurting and its pretty bad to use such a phrase when talking about someone who is hurting as an excuse to put them out of mind and concern or to rationalize ones way out of examining the issues that caused the 'bitterness' or pain. Its a knotty language those 2x2-isms.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 13, 2015 22:41:52 GMT -5
Understand your view but most of the exit letters I have seen over the past 15 years indicate that doctrinal issues are the no. 1 reason why people leave. Ross Could you please explain how you have the audacity to make this statement? Why...even in recent days you have posted multiple statements of non Biblical and therefore false doctrine. If you wish I can gather them and copy and paste onto this thread.
Your post sadly brings Mat 7v3 to mind.
I can explain. They don't understand their situation in terms of abuse, so they do their best with explaining it in terms of their newfound comforter. If course, you won't like that answer any better than the false doctrine one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 13, 2015 22:44:55 GMT -5
That depends on your definition of bitter. But because you said that, one can tell that you're an ex. When a worker describes someone as bitter it's normally because the ex has disagreed with him -- you don't really have to tell them off to be considered bitter, just refuse to accept their evaluation of you. I'm also wondering where in the bible is there a person who is described as bitter? As Jesse L. said experiences can be bitter - aka painful - and tastes can be bitter - aka painfully bad tasting - but thats a great question about whats the definition of this yet another piece of jargon---what's being said when F&W's instead slap the label 'bitter' on people instead of experiences and taste? I associate it with people who have been hurt and are hurting and its pretty bad to use such a phrase when talking about someone who is hurting as an excuse to put them out of mind and concern or to rationalize ones way out of examining the issues that caused the 'bitterness' or pain. Its a knotty language those 2x2-isms. Jas_3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
Col_3:19 Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.
Jas_3:11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 13, 2015 22:50:35 GMT -5
That depends on your definition of bitter. But because you said that, one can tell that you're an ex. When a worker describes someone as bitter it's normally because the ex has disagreed with him -- you don't really have to tell them off to be considered bitter, just refuse to accept their evaluation of you. I'm also wondering where in the bible is there a person who is described as bitter? As Jesse L. said experiences can be bitter - aka painful - and tastes can be bitter - aka painfully bad tasting - but thats a great question about whats the definition of this yet another piece of jargon---what's being said when F&W's instead slap the label 'bitter' on people instead of experiences and taste? I associate it with people who have been hurt and are hurting and its pretty bad to use such a phrase when talking about someone who is hurting as an excuse to put them out of mind and concern or to rationalize ones way out of examining the issues that caused the 'bitterness' or pain. Its a knotty language those 2x2-isms. It's not really inappropriate to say that a person is bitter -- it's used for people who are severely harsh and cold, but its use in the phrase "bitter exes" is very much overdone, as is a lot of vocabulary in all subcultures. I had a college paper on such vocabulary distortion among the friends and workers published in a professional journal, but didn't get to the word "bitter". Of course, that was before I ever thought of becoming bitter.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 13, 2015 22:51:51 GMT -5
Understand your view but most of the exit letters I have seen over the past 15 years indicate that doctrinal issues are the no. 1 reason why people leave. That's good. Doctrinal issues should be the no. 1 reason why people leave. Horses for courses. So you an abused person should stay? ?
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 13, 2015 22:52:57 GMT -5
Oh dear, sarcasm fail. I heard the sarcasm, Fred! I thought he was going a bit far with it.
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Post by rational on Aug 13, 2015 22:54:43 GMT -5
Maybe more real than she thinks. I wonder if Islam will be to the Gentiles what the Romans were to the Jews? I wonder if Islam will be to the Gentiles what the Chriatians were to the Jews?
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 13, 2015 22:56:04 GMT -5
I'm also wondering where in the bible is there a person who is described as bitter? As Jesse L. said experiences can be bitter - aka painful - and tastes can be bitter - aka painfully bad tasting - but thats a great question about whats the definition of this yet another piece of jargon---what's being said when F&W's instead slap the label 'bitter' on people instead of experiences and taste? I associate it with people who have been hurt and are hurting and its pretty bad to use such a phrase when talking about someone who is hurting as an excuse to put them out of mind and concern or to rationalize ones way out of examining the issues that caused the 'bitterness' or pain. Its a knotty language those 2x2-isms. Jas_3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
Col_3:19 Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.
Jas_3:11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
Perfectly good advice -- but does it only apply to abused people? ? What about people who are just plain self-righteous angry at everyone and everything?
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hberry
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Post by hberry on Aug 13, 2015 22:56:08 GMT -5
That depends on your definition of bitter. But because you said that, one can tell that you're an ex. When a worker describes someone as bitter it's normally because the ex has disagreed with him -- you don't really have to tell them off to be considered bitter, just refuse to accept their evaluation of you. I'm also wondering where in the bible is there a person who is described as bitter? As Jesse L. said experiences can be bitter - aka painful - and tastes can be bitter - aka painfully bad tasting - but thats a great question about whats the definition of this yet another piece of jargon---what's being said when F&W's instead slap the label 'bitter' on people instead of experiences and taste? I associate it with people who have been hurt and are hurting and its pretty bad to use such a phrase when talking about someone who is hurting as an excuse to put them out of mind and concern or to rationalize ones way out of examining the issues that caused the 'bitterness' or pain. Its a knotty language those 2x2-isms. I suspect he was referring to Ruth and Naomi: " vs 19 And when they had come to Bethlehem, all the city was stirred because of them, and the women said, "Is this Naomi?" 20 She said to them, "Do not call me Naomi; call me Mara, for the Almighty has dealt very bitterly with me." Mara is likely a reference to Marah: Marah - name of the place of water too bitter to drink (Ex. 15:23, 24; Num. 33:8)
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 13, 2015 23:00:06 GMT -5
Maybe more real than she thinks. I wonder if Islam will be to the Gentiles what the Romans were to the Jews? I wonder if Islam will be to the Gentiles what the Chriatians were to the Jews? Well, judging from how Christians came to be nice to Jews, Christians will have to wait for their own holocaust, and then Muslims can faun over them. Incidentally, ISIS has been freeing Christians who accept the authority of the state -- on the authority of the Qur'an.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 13, 2015 23:03:10 GMT -5
I'm also wondering where in the bible is there a person who is described as bitter? As Jesse L. said experiences can be bitter - aka painful - and tastes can be bitter - aka painfully bad tasting - but thats a great question about whats the definition of this yet another piece of jargon---what's being said when F&W's instead slap the label 'bitter' on people instead of experiences and taste? I associate it with people who have been hurt and are hurting and its pretty bad to use such a phrase when talking about someone who is hurting as an excuse to put them out of mind and concern or to rationalize ones way out of examining the issues that caused the 'bitterness' or pain. Its a knotty language those 2x2-isms. I suspect he was referring to Ruth and Naomi: " vs 19 And when they had come to Bethlehem, all the city was stirred because of them, and the women said, "Is this Naomi?" 20 She said to them, "Do not call me Naomi; call me Mara, for the Almighty has dealt very bitterly with me." Mara is likely a reference to Marah: Marah - name of the place of water too bitter to drink (Ex. 15:23, 24; Num. 33:8) The name "Mary" means "bitter". Of course, when it was a proper noun we inherit the spelling of that time period -- if the translators liked it.
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Post by fixit on Aug 13, 2015 23:08:24 GMT -5
I wonder if Islam will be to the Gentiles what the Chriatians were to the Jews? Well, judging from how Christians came to be nice to Jews, Christians will have to wait for their own holocaust, and then Muslims can faun over them. Incidentally, ISIS has been freeing Christians who accept the authority of the state -- on the authority of the Qur'an. On what terms?
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Post by fixit on Aug 13, 2015 23:08:55 GMT -5
That's good. Doctrinal issues should be the no. 1 reason why people leave. Horses for courses. So you an abused person should stay? ? There shouldn't be abused persons.
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Post by emy on Aug 13, 2015 23:13:42 GMT -5
Not sure where you found 'bitter' as a meaning for 'Mary.' This one seems more common: Mary - Simple meaning: Beloved, Drop of the sea, Star of the sea
As hberry said, ruth called herself 'Mara' due to her bitterness or bitter experience.
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Post by blandie on Aug 14, 2015 1:20:24 GMT -5
Jas_3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
Col_3:19 Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.
Jas_3:11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
First one is used to describe the type of envy and strife and not describing the person - second from Col. means 'be bitter' or 'make bitter' and is a verb and not an adjective describing a person but an action - third is telling people to learn to control their tongues the illustration is not about a person whose mouth would be the fountain not the bitter water. The way its being used in F&W lingo to pigeonhole people to make easier to dismiss them and avoid dealing with uneasy issues they may raise is unbiblical jargon. Not sure where you found 'bitter' as a meaning for 'Mary.' This one seems more common: Mary - Simple meaning: Beloved, Drop of the sea, Star of the sea As hberry said, ruth called herself 'Mara' due to her bitterness or bitter experience. The name comes from Miriam and so it could have those meanings like 'beloved' carried over from egyptian since Miriam was born in egypt. BobW is also right that the hebrew root of both Miriam-Mary can be read also as bitterness and the name could signify all of the above too - remember the prophet told Miriam-Mary that 'a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also.'
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 14, 2015 2:09:58 GMT -5
Well, judging from how Christians came to be nice to Jews, Christians will have to wait for their own holocaust, and then Muslims can faun over them. Incidentally, ISIS has been freeing Christians who accept the authority of the state -- on the authority of the Qur'an. On what terms? I told you -- they accept the authority of the state. Also, because they are "people of the book".
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 14, 2015 2:16:22 GMT -5
So you an abused person should stay? ? There shouldn't be abused persons. That wasn't the question. The question was supposed to be: So you expect an abused person to stay? ?? What difference does it make what should be and what shouldn't be --- reality is that there are people who are abused -- physically if one doesn't understand emotionally. Think of the worst scenario -- any reason at all that they should leave?
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Post by fred on Aug 14, 2015 2:20:06 GMT -5
No, Timothy was archbishop at Ephesus.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 14, 2015 2:35:32 GMT -5
Not sure where you found 'bitter' as a meaning for 'Mary.' This one seems more common: Mary - Simple meaning: Beloved, Drop of the sea, Star of the sea It sounds like someone has tried to Christianize the name after the fact. Mary was a common Hebrew name, and it didn't mean beloved. Neither did it have anything to do with the sea until the Catholic church decided to Christianize the meaning by claiming it originated from the Latin root "mar" which means sea. I have seen "Mary" defined as "bitter" in every source I've ever checked -- most recently in the book of 100,000 names. Sounds like hberry confirmed my meaning.
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Post by BobWilliston on Aug 14, 2015 2:40:32 GMT -5
Jas_3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
Col_3:19 Husbands, love your wives, and be not bitter against them.
Jas_3:11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
First one is used to describe the type of envy and strife and not describing the person - second from Col. means 'be bitter' or 'make bitter' and is a verb and not an adjective describing a person but an action - third is telling people to learn to control their tongues the illustration is not about a person whose mouth would be the fountain not the bitter water. The way its being used in F&W lingo to pigeonhole people to make easier to dismiss them and avoid dealing with uneasy issues they may raise is unbiblical jargon. Not sure where you found 'bitter' as a meaning for 'Mary.' This one seems more common: Mary - Simple meaning: Beloved, Drop of the sea, Star of the sea As hberry said, ruth called herself 'Mara' due to her bitterness or bitter experience. The name comes from Miriam and so it could have those meanings like 'beloved' carried over from egyptian since Miriam was born in egypt. BobW is also right that the hebrew root of both Miriam-Mary can be read also as bitterness and the name could signify all of the above too - remember the prophet told Miriam-Mary that 'a sword shall pierce through thy own soul also.' Sorry -- Miriam means "beloved" in the same way that "Bob" means "charming".
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Post by Roselyn T on Aug 14, 2015 4:11:48 GMT -5
That's good. Doctrinal issues should be the no. 1 reason why people leave. Horses for courses. Agreed - although it's hard for some to work out what the doctrine is that they are leaving. In my experience some.Workers had completely different positions on core issues. D&R is an example of the different positions on core issues, imo
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Post by maryhig on Aug 14, 2015 4:41:38 GMT -5
Not sure where you found 'bitter' as a meaning for 'Mary.' This one seems more common: Mary - Simple meaning: Beloved, Drop of the sea, Star of the sea It sounds like someone has tried to Christianize the name after the fact. Mary was a common Hebrew name, and it didn't mean beloved. Neither did it have anything to do with the sea until the Catholic church decided to Christianize the meaning by claiming it originated from the Latin root "mar" which means sea. I have seen "Mary" defined as "bitter" in every source I've ever checked -- most recently in the book of 100,000 names. Sounds like hberry confirmed my meaning. Yeah me too, I've searched and i always end up the same meaning "bitter" except for a couple of exceptions which of course i use, like beloved, and I've searched everywhere for a different meaning whenever i look up the meaning of our names with any of my family they think it's so funny that mine means bitter. When their's have lovely meanings! My son in law thought it was hysterical one day. So we looked up his which didn't help because his mean't gift of God. Which he quickly changed to Gods gift! I told him to dream on!
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Post by fred on Aug 14, 2015 7:26:29 GMT -5
No, Timothy was archbishop at Ephesus. Oh yeah? so can you give the scripture you base your incorrect statement on? Just a little fun review. Timothy appointed bishops at Ephesus ..... and whose role is it to appoint Bishops?
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Post by fixit on Aug 14, 2015 7:35:37 GMT -5
I told you -- they accept the authority of the state. Also, because they are "people of the book". It's hard to believe that the Egyptian Christians beheaded on a Libyan beach were shown any mercy as "people of the book" - or that they had much of a choice about their future.
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Post by bubbles on Aug 14, 2015 8:33:05 GMT -5
It sounds like someone has tried to Christianize the name after the fact. Mary was a common Hebrew name, and it didn't mean beloved. Neither did it have anything to do with the sea until the Catholic church decided to Christianize the meaning by claiming it originated from the Latin root "mar" which means sea. I have seen "Mary" defined as "bitter" in every source I've ever checked -- most recently in the book of 100,000 names. Sounds like hberry confirmed my meaning. Yeah me too, I've searched and i always end up the same meaning "bitter" except for a couple of exceptions which of course i use, like beloved, and I've searched everywhere for a different meaning whenever i look up the meaning of our names with any of my family they think it's so funny that mine means bitter. When their's have lovely meanings! My son in law thought it was hysterical one day. So we looked up his which didn't help because his mean't gift of God. Which he quickly changed to Gods gift! I told him to dream on! I had a Jewish client called Marnia..hebrew for Mary.
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