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Post by how odd on Sept 5, 2007 19:17:34 GMT -5
You speak of copying the NT times as if your church actually does....
...but your church does not.
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Secret Sect the Book
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Post by Secret Sect the Book on Sept 5, 2007 19:28:18 GMT -5
THE SECRET SECT writers have letters and interviews of those who started this system - saying that it was an experiment. And the rest of the history is also well documented
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experience or experiment
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Post by experience or experiment on Sept 5, 2007 19:42:20 GMT -5
THE SECRET SECT writers have letters and interviews of those who started this system - saying that it was an experiment. And the rest of the history is also well documented Yep, it was an experiment in following the commands and teachings of the Son of God , and it brings peace that this world knows so little of..... and that is MY experience with the experiment that I have experienced.
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Post by how on Sept 5, 2007 19:44:24 GMT -5
THE SECRET SECT writers have letters and interviews of those who started this system - saying that it was an experiment. And the rest of the history is also well documented Yep, it was an experiment in following the commands and teachings of the Son of God , and it brings peace that this world knows so little of..... and that is MY experience with the experiment that I have experienced. Convenient, if true. But it's not true. 2x2ism does not follow the "commands and teachings" of Jesus.
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the truth and the way
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Post by the truth and the way on Sept 5, 2007 19:57:44 GMT -5
Yep, it was an experiment in following the commands and teachings of the Son of God , and it brings peace that this world knows so little of..... and that is MY experience with the experiment that I have experienced. Convenient, if true. But it's not true. 2x2ism does not follow the "commands and teachings" of Jesus. Hmmm. The fellowship is called the truth and the way. Jesus started it about 1975 years ago , thanks...
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Sept 5, 2007 20:00:07 GMT -5
Hmmmm..... why don't the workers use laying on of hands and how come they can't heal?
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Post by Not irvines church on Sept 5, 2007 20:03:09 GMT -5
Read The Secret Sect, my dear. Do you mean the unabridged edition? or the highly edited version. My dear, my dear, arlis, I cannot believe you cannot understand ? so little sense that this would NOT have been considered as Irvines church even back then, as it was hardly under his authority,even his buddy Ed was erroring before Will fell off the wagon, of pride.....whatever happened then, it was meant to follow the teachings set forth more perfectly by Jesus in the NT, and demonstated to be worthy of replication even in todays world, thanks.... hmmmmm
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Post by hmm mm on Sept 5, 2007 20:31:35 GMT -5
THE SECRET SECT writers have letters and interviews of those who started this system - saying that it was an experiment. And the rest of the history is also well documented Yep, it was an experiment in following the commands and teachings of the Son of God , and it brings peace that this world knows so little of..... and that is MY experience with the experiment that I have experienced.
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Sept 5, 2007 20:43:34 GMT -5
Hmmmm..... why don't the workers use laying on of hands and how come they can't heal? Where in the Bible says the workers to lay on of hands. What's the purpose of laying on hands for today?
Why the workers need to heal today?Why the workers need to go out 2x2 today? You claim the workers to be exactly what Jesus intended as the only way for the gospel message to be spread across the world and the only way into heaven. I dont see very many likenesses however to the chosen 12.
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Sept 5, 2007 20:55:12 GMT -5
Where in the Bible says the workers to lay on of hands. What's the purpose of laying on hands for today?
Why the workers need to heal today?1) Why the workers need to go out 2x2 today? ~~~ Can you answer my 2 above questions, please then I will answer your next question.Mark 16:15-18 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. So if this is what Jesus instructed them to, then why do the workers pick and choose what they do and what they don't? Dont the workers preach that what was relevant then is still relevant today???
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Post by _ on Sept 5, 2007 21:10:08 GMT -5
Hmmmm..... why don't the workers use laying on of hands and how come they can't heal? Where in the Bible says the workers to lay on of hands. What's the purpose of laying on hands for today?
Why the workers need to heal today?the same place it says for them to go out two by two... so why do the workers need to go out in pairs today?
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Post by mortified on Sept 5, 2007 21:30:30 GMT -5
Hmmmm..... why don't the workers use laying on of hands and how come they can't heal? Where in the Bible says the workers to lay on of hands. What's the purpose of laying on hands for today?
Why the workers need to heal today?As you answer most inquiries Nathan because it says so in God's word. right? And while we are on this subject please do post for me the reason why meetings MUST be in the home. History shows that meetings were held in the home because at that time it was unsafe to meet in public. Now that situation has changed--so if we can choose if we lay on hands and heal then also shall we choose any available building, correct? We have to be consistent with this. And I am sure you can help me with the scriptures that will support conventions. I have researched and can not find any reference or support for convention meetings. Nor can I find support for the large amounts of money spent for the buildings used for conventions--upkeep, additional property tax, that sort of thing. Because--after all-- our main directive from Jesus was to spread the Gospel to EVERYONE. I really have never seen anyone at convention that was invited there for the specific purpose of hearing the Gospel. From what I have seen the people there do not want "outsiders" there. Convention is an exclusive benefit of "belonging" to the group. If you have scriptural support for this I would appreciate you posting it for me.
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Post by name just one on Sept 5, 2007 22:21:13 GMT -5
nathan,
Why is it that you are unable to name the worker that William Irvine professed under?
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Post by _ on Sept 5, 2007 23:00:13 GMT -5
nathan, Why is it that you are unable to name the worker that William Irvine professed under? Sorry, I can't because I wasn't born or live during the time of William Irvine.... I can tell you which workers I heard the Gospel from. ;D
This I know.... William Irvine was NOT the FIRST! person to come up with the idea of going 2x2 Itinerant workers ministry! or the church to meet in the homes of the friends for the Bread and wine.
This I know William Irvine was NOT the FIRST worker! to go out as an Itinerant preacher of the Gospel like Jesus or the apostles. What nathan fails to grasp is that none of us care if of other groups in the past 2000 years had homeless preachers or preachers who go out in pairs... WE DO NOT CARE... These groups DO NOT MATTER... What matters is that William Irvine created a new group... a new organization... a new church fellowship... The fact that some forms, styles, or methods in this fellowship is found in other previous groups/organizations/church fellowships is IRRELEVANT!
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Post by _ on Sept 5, 2007 23:05:36 GMT -5
I DO care! and it is VERY important. Bully for you!
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Post by AGAIN on Sept 5, 2007 23:16:31 GMT -5
I wasn't alive in the late 1700s, but I know that George Washington was the 1st president of the United States.
nathan says he cannot tell us who William Irvine professed under because he was not alive at that time.
The truth is that nathan cannot tell us who William Irvine professed under because William Irvine did not profess under anyone, and nathan knows it.
LET THE READERS DECIDE
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Post by The mustard seed on Sept 6, 2007 4:49:07 GMT -5
Jesus started a church It was Jesus church, based on the gospels pertaining to Christ. It was small and it has grown.
The stump theory stems from wanting to believe that a certain fellowship is Jesus church. Being faced with the question that if this man started this church how can it be Jesus' church? Because it wouldn't of existed before him.
What one fails to grasp is that Jesus' church has always existed from those early days, and is made up of all believers who are following Christ in spirit and in truth regardless of where they choose to meet with other believers. This church exists today as it did thousands of years ago, and will continue to grow till the day Jesus returns in his glory.
So many needless questions arise only when one is trying to fit God and Jesus church into a box, and it is not quite fitting. Perhaps instead of trying to fit God in a box, trying to mold the church into something we wish it was or believe it should be.... WE could just take a step back.... Let it all go.... And just follow Jesus with all our heart and all our soul and all our mind and all our body..... Be that good and faithful servant.... Do not be taken up with mindless arguments which really have no bearing on our salvation.....
God loves each and every human. He loves his sheep, but he also loves the lost sheep. More then anything in this world he would love for every lost sheep to be found. He does not want the human heart condemning any sheep for any purpose, because he loves them.
Remember Jesus Commandement:
1. Love the lord they god with all they heart, soul, mind, and body. 2. Love your neighbor as Jesus loved us.
Remember
1. Love they enemy.
Also remember:
1. We are all vile creatures with a vile human nature. WE are all sinners and will continue in our sin till we die. We can not escape this human body till we die, and only then will we have victory over death because through Christ we can go on to eternal life with him. WE are all struggling to that heavenly goal. We should give our thankfulness everyday for this, and also pray everyday that our Lord could help others in the same way he has helped us. As soon as our heart turns to one of condemnation and not of love, we do not have the spirit of God in us. Our spirit of love has been replaced by a spirit of self righteousness and condemnation. When we were yet sinners god had love, mercy, compassion, etc. on us. Should we not have this same spirit also. If we have a perception (though this is only a human perception and nothing to do with the wonderful works of God, because we do not know where God works) should we not show our love, mercy, compassion, on them. Praying for them earnestly. There she be no condemnation in us.
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Sept 6, 2007 12:21:06 GMT -5
~~~ Can you answer my 2 above questions, please then I will answer your next question. 1) Mark 16:15-18 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. ~~~ Yes, that is still true today! the disciples and servants of God are still preaching the Gospel to many nations.2) 16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. ~~~ Yes, all who are truly born again and baptized in the name of the Father, the son, and the Holy Spirit are SAVED and those who believe NOT shall be dammed as the scriptures say it. 3) 17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; ~~~ Yes, the apostles and disciples of Christ did cast out devils and they did speak NEW languages which they NEVER learned in (Acts 2; 10 and 19)...
In those days God gave the apostles (preachers) and disciples (followers such as Ananias, Stephen, and Philip) the power to work miracles and healing..... So my question is why can't the Christians! today peform these miracles as we read in the book of Acts?
You are a disciple of Christ, right? so have you perform any miracle, heal anyone in your life? why can't you do it? any thoughts on why can't you do it today? 4) 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. ~~~ Hmmmmmm.... I have seen tapes of where religious groups handle poison snakes by using this verse above to back them up and some of them have died from bitten by the poisonous snakes. So, my question to you is why did some of them died? if the scripture says the snakes not hurt them?5) So if this is what Jesus instructed them to, then why do the workers pick and choose what they do and what they don't? Dont the workers preach that what was relevant then is still relevant today??? ~~~ So why can't you heal or perform miracles? have you handle of any poisonous snakes in your life? The verses you quoted was written to Christ followers or disciples NOT just the apostles. So can you explain to me what is going on. Thanks. You are a disciple of Christ, right? so have you perform any miracle, heal anyone in your life? why can't you do it? any thoughts on why can't you do it today?I haven’t claimed that I can Nathan. Nor have I said that there are those in our day who can. You are saying that the workers are sent forth just as Jesus intended. My question again then is why is the worker’s method of teaching different from those who were originally chosen by Jesus? If you don’t think healing and laying on of hands is relevant today, then how is any of it? How can you pick and choose from what Jesus himself specifically gave instructions for? The workers claim to be the closest thing to Jesus’ apostles that you can get! Here is a good analogy I saw a while back: When building a building, the first thing that is laid is the foundation. Everything else is then built upon that one foundation. Do we then go back after building a couple of stories and lay the foundation again? No. It is only done once. The foundation is laid one time in the beginning and then never again. The same is true of the apostles. They served as a foundation for the emerging church. We should not expect to see another group of apostles later on any more than we would expect someone building a building to lay another foundation on the fourth floor. After all, Jesus, being the chief cornerstone, is a part of this foundation as well. We certainly do not expect there to be another Jesus, do we? Ephesians 2:19-22 In order to be an apostle one has to have seen Jesus after he rose from the dead. Paul says that Jesus was seen last of all by him. He is the last one to see Jesus after his resurrection. Since no one since Paul has seen Jesus, no one since Paul can be an apostle. Therefore, there can be no apostles today. Paul refers to his ability to perform miracles as "the signs of an apostle". WHAT IS IMPORTANT TODAY IS THE MESSAGE NOT THE METHOD.
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Sept 6, 2007 13:05:43 GMT -5
~~~ If you are not a disciple of Christ then are you? an athetist? agnostic? Do you attend any church right now?
Yes I am a disciple of Christ. I do not however claim that disciples are the same today as they were in Jesus’ day. You do. Yes I do attend a church right now.
~~~ Yes, I read and heard the analogy you posted before on here and I pointed out the errors in it. We have discussed this in the past on here.
So you discredit what Jesus and Paul taught then. You think they were wrong. That explains your false doctrine. You are saying the method is more or just as important as the message.
~~~ What you wrote above is NOThING new to me I have answered those kinds of belief before too! and I have pointed out some of the major errors in that kind of thinking. I don't have the desire or the energy to go over it again for now. But I want to let you know... your belief is false.
You believe im a lost soul right, yet you dismiss my questions saying you don’t have the energy to address them. I wonder if Jesus ever replied to questions in this manner. I know he did not. So I’m a lost soul not worth the energy? Some disciple you are!
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Post by david on Sept 6, 2007 16:31:10 GMT -5
THE SECRET SECT writers have letters and interviews of those who started this system - saying that it was an experiment. And the rest of the history is also well documented Yep, it was an experiment in following the commands and teachings of the Son of God , and it brings peace that this world knows so little of..... and that is MY experience with the experiment that I have experienced. [/quot I am in a hurry
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Post by obvious on Sept 6, 2007 18:14:55 GMT -5
nathan is unable to provide the name of the worker under whom William Irvine professed.
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Post by wingsofaneagle on Sept 6, 2007 18:31:44 GMT -5
~~~ If you are not a disciple of Christ then are you? an athetist? agnostic? Do you attend any church right now? Yes I am a disciple of Christ. I do not however claim that disciples are the same today as they were in Jesus’ day. You do. Yes I do attend a church right now.**** N9: If you are attending a church right now.... then you are a disciple and follower of Jesus.~~~ Yes, I read and heard the analogy you posted before on here and I pointed out the errors in it. We have discussed this in the past on here. So you discredit what Jesus and Paul taught then. You think they were wrong. That explains your false doctrine. You are saying the method is more or just as important as the message. ***** N9: NO, your understanding is what he wrote is incorrect. I have explained what's wrong with those passages in the past too many times. I am just too tired of people changes handles and asking the same questions over and over. It takes too much of my time and energy to explain it over and over the same questions.~~~ What you wrote above is NOThING new to me I have answered those kinds of belief before too! and I have pointed out some of the major errors in that kind of thinking. I don't have the desire or the energy to go over it again for now. But I want to let you know... your belief is false. You believe im a lost soul right, yet you dismiss my questions saying you don’t have the energy to address them. I wonder if Jesus ever replied to questions in this manner. I know he did not. So I’m a lost soul not worth the energy? Some disciple you are!**** N9: Only God know if you are lost soul or not. As I have told you people keep on changing different handles, registered different names asking the same questions over and over. When I feel better I will answer your questions but right now I am just too tired in answering the same old questions over and over.Your "handle" argument is invalid Nathan. Ive only ever used one and have never addressed questions to you before. If you dont believe Im a lost soul then you are not following the doctrine of the workers. You are obviously choosing parts of the doctrine to follow and you discard the rest. Its obvious you don't wish to discuss these issues with me, so I won't bother you again with any other questions.
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