|
Post by Nancy on Sept 4, 2007 23:03:39 GMT -5
Am I the only ex that doesn't feel insulted or shunned because the 2x2's think that their system is the only way to Heaven?
I don't think they want to feel that way. It would be much easier to think that all their non-2x2 friends and non-2x2 family are going to be joining them in Heaven. It must pain them to think of their loved ones, even their children, spending eternity in anguish while they enjoy the fruits of Heaven.
While I may not agree with them, I have never felt angry or scorned because of their belief. It is what it is.
|
|
|
Post by ithascome on Sept 4, 2007 23:40:50 GMT -5
Actually all 2x2s do not feel that way. Those that do believe that... it is their loss.... they could have known their brother.
There is no scripture basis for mandating that Christians must totally shun former members (that is, have no communication or conversation with them). The instruction is to expel them from the congregation and treat them like anyone else who is not a member. Especially, there is no scripture to support shunning of one's own relatives--parents, children and siblings.
If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever."--1 Tim.5:8 (NIV)
|
|
|
Post by Nancy on Sept 4, 2007 23:52:01 GMT -5
I didn't mean to imply that 2x2's shun their friends or family because they aren't part of their Church.
I was just talking about the "exclusive" belief that they are the only ones going to Heaven.
2x2's have always been nice to me socially..... I have never felt shunned in that regard.
|
|
|
Post by gloryintruth on Sept 5, 2007 5:49:09 GMT -5
2x2's have always been nice to me socially..... I have never felt shunned in that regard.
I have always tried hard to keep friendly relations with the former members of the Fellowship, even though I feel that they are lost souls. I pray for their conversion on an ongoing basis.
|
|
|
Post by geethanks on Sept 5, 2007 13:49:01 GMT -5
2x2's have always been nice to me socially..... I have never felt shunned in that regard.I have always tried hard to keep friendly relations with the former members of the Fellowship, even though I feel that they are lost souls. I pray for their conversion on an ongoing basis. Thanks Git for your prayers, every bit helps, but only GOD knows whose souls are lost. Be careful on trying to step in for GOD.
|
|
|
Post by think2much on Sept 5, 2007 14:47:38 GMT -5
Exclusivity is rampant in the Bible so I don't know why people get all uptight about 2X2 exclusivity.
Take out your Bible, blow the dust off, and start reading. The following types/groups of people were excluded from fellowship for one reason or another:
Non-Jews Men with injuries to their, ahem, private parts Menstruating women Homosexuals Astrologers Uncircumcised men People who didn't wash their hands before a meal Folks who worked on Saturday Children of "questionable parentage" People who wore the wrong kind of clothes Men who didn't want to work for a living etc, etc
Religion is all about controlling people. Spirituality is about a personal relationship with God. Few people seem to know the difference. That's why there are thouands of religions today all claiming to be the one-and-only ticket to paradise (to steal a phrase from Eddie Money).
It only takes two people to make a religion work: one who likes to control, and one who needs someone to tell them what they should believe. Voila! Exclusivity is born!
|
|
|
Post by that is on Sept 5, 2007 16:07:32 GMT -5
2x2's have always been nice to me socially..... I have never felt shunned in that regard.I have always tried hard to keep friendly relations with the former members of the Fellowship, even though I feel that they are lost souls. I pray for their conversion on an ongoing basis. Thankfully, they are smarter than you and found the real Christ after leaving meetings. Thankfully, you can never again harm them or their children with your smears against their salvation. Thankfully, you will remain in meetings the rest of your pathetic days and leave Christianity to those who actually believe in Christ, and only Christ, as the basis of their salvation (not their membership in your group of snobs)
|
|
|
Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 5, 2007 16:13:47 GMT -5
that is...and you're not a religious snob?? LOL..telling GIT he knows nothing about Christianity, etc. ?? ...who exactly made you the all-knowing one?? M.
|
|
|
Post by you should know on Sept 5, 2007 16:18:21 GMT -5
that is...and you're not a religious snob?? LOL..telling GIT he knows nothing about Christianity, etc. ?? ...who exactly made you the all-knowing one?? M. So what you're saying then is that GIT is not a religious snob? Are you blind?
|
|
|
Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 5, 2007 16:21:41 GMT -5
yes, that's what I'm saying. His beliefs are his beliefs. That is ALL they are. HIS. B-E-L-I-E-F-S. Why are you so offended by them? Do you take them as the truth and not simply a belief, or opinion? 2x2s are not supposed to be offended that their religion is called a cult and wrong and 'get out' and everything else...but you get all uppity because GIT's beliefs are that YOUR beliefs are wrong? No, he's not a religious snob, but "that is" possibly might be! (I'm not sure if you were the OP I was talking to or not.) M.
|
|
|
Post by yeah ok whatever on Sept 5, 2007 16:31:39 GMT -5
Ok. I figured it was some kind of eye disease or something.
|
|
|
Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 5, 2007 16:34:10 GMT -5
Lol. Awww, aren't you sweet? Nope, no disease. Sorry to disappoint, but it was just my thoughts! M.
|
|
|
Post by gloryintruth on Sept 5, 2007 18:59:07 GMT -5
Thankfully, they are smarter than you and found the real Christ after leaving meetings.
I wish them all the best. Have you found the "real Christ" friend?
Thankfully, you can never again harm them or their children with your smears against their salvation.
"Harm them or their children"? I do not believe theological speculation hurts anyone. Furthermore, when the you say that we in the Fellowship have not the "real Christ" is that not a smear against our salvation and our children's salvation?
I'm sorry to ask rhetorical questions. I usually avoid this. But I just feel you're being a bit extreme and a bit inconsistent.
Thankfully, you will remain in meetings the rest of your pathetic days and leave Christianity to those who actually believe in Christ, and only Christ, as the basis of their salvation (not their membership in your group of snobs)
Christ radiates from your words, like flashes of light from the muzzle of an automatic machine gun!
I have started to move away from the Reformation\Augustinian view that faith alone is necessary for salvation. I have been reading the works recently of the "heretic" Pelagius and other Church Fathers, and have started to conclude that we must perform some works as people of God.
For a long time I believed in the Augustinian tradition hook-line-and-sinker. The whole nine yards. But Pelagius, for all his confusion on some issues, makes a valid point: if faith and predestination are the sole requirements for salvation, then it more-or-less absolves us of living a moral life. In short, it makes a nonsense out of the Gospel, the vast majority of which urges us toward action.
I am deviating from your point, of course, because salvation is entirely of the Lord and I have always believed this to be so. But a necessary consequence of salvation is the thirst toward an honest, open, upright, dilligent, and moral life. Toward works ("which God preordained that we should do them").
I thank you for your words, friend. I finish by saying that the intention behind my words is friendliness and tolerance, and the desire to demonstrate restraint and peacefulness. I hope I achieved this objective.
Peace be unto you. At tu pax ex Christus, Rex coelestis. Amen.
(My Latin is a bit rusty and I write only from memory so my grammar is probably slightly disordered, but a translation of the above: Peace to you, from out of Christ, the Heavenly King. So be it!)
|
|
|
Post by what do you care on Sept 5, 2007 19:21:13 GMT -5
when the you say that we in the Fellowship have not the "real Christ" is that not a smear against our salvation and our children's salvation? It shouldn't bother you at all. After all, you've already admitted that your faith is more rooted in 2x2ism than it is in Christ.
|
|
|
Post by gloryintruth on Sept 5, 2007 21:59:15 GMT -5
It shouldn't bother you at all. After all, you've already admitted that your faith is more rooted in 2x2ism than it is in Christ.
Friend, putting aside all that divides us, I ask you in the spirit of wanting only fair representation, if you could point to any place where I have made an "admission" that my faith rests in the Workers, Friends and Meetings over and above my God, my Christ?
Peace be unto you.
|
|
|
Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 5, 2007 22:02:13 GMT -5
Yeah. I was wondering that too, Git. Lol. M.
|
|
|
Post by I could on Sept 5, 2007 22:13:55 GMT -5
It shouldn't bother you at all. After all, you've already admitted that your faith is more rooted in 2x2ism than it is in Christ.Friend, putting aside all that divides us, I ask you in the spirit of wanting only fair representation, if you could point to any place where I have made an "admission" that my faith rests in the Workers, Friends and Meetings over and above my God, my Christ? Peace be unto you. I could, but there is a limit to the length of a post that any reasonable human could be expected to actually read.
|
|
|
Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 5, 2007 22:22:45 GMT -5
How very convenient.
|
|
|
Post by and considerate on Sept 5, 2007 22:23:53 GMT -5
How very convenient. and considerate to GIT-groupies like you
|
|
|
Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 5, 2007 22:25:41 GMT -5
hehe. Ok. You and I have *very* different meanings for the word considerate, as I would never apply it to you by what I've seen so far...but hey...to each his/her own! M. By the way, GIT, I'm your groupie! WOOT! I always wanted to be a groupie....party on, excellent!!! Lol.
|
|
|
Post by ithascome on Sept 5, 2007 22:47:17 GMT -5
You did not mention lepers, blind people, the poor, Samaritans etc, etc Did Jesus agree with this exclusivity among groups of people.... no!!!
But yet...
The Bible presents Jesus as God; as the Creator; as the only Savior of the world; and as Lord. He described Himself as the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Whatever you think of Jesus, it is essential to come to grips with these exclusive claims. "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." The disciples believed that to withold Jesus was to withold salvation; without Jesus people were lost; without hope and without God.
Because it is not the way, the truth, and the life.
Jesus said No one comes to the Father except through Him... we should not rely upon anyone or anything in this world to save us except Jesus Christ alone!
GIT you sure do know how to start a fuss.... How is it that you could even think such a thing? I will say this for sure... ALL WHO REJECT CHRIST ARE LOST!
|
|
|
Post by vinnie on Sept 5, 2007 23:24:58 GMT -5
I sometimes wonder why there is so much reliance on what is spoken in the OT.
Jesus come to fulfill the old law. The 2 new commandmants-love God and love your neighbor.
Where is exclusivity in that?
|
|
|
Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 5, 2007 23:38:37 GMT -5
Hey are you my cousin Vinnie? Hehe. n/m me. just lil crazy tonight. M.
|
|
|
Post by vinnie on Sept 5, 2007 23:43:31 GMT -5
no
|
|
|
Post by wanttobewithGod on Sept 6, 2007 0:05:21 GMT -5
was a joke. (My cousin Vinnie??) M.
|
|
|
Post by Skeptic Al on Sept 6, 2007 3:16:16 GMT -5
I sometimes wonder why there is so much reliance on what is spoken in the OT. Jesus come to fulfill the old law. The 2 new commandmants-love God and love your neighbor. Where is exclusivity in that? OK, let's look at this like a mathematical proof (remember those from junior high?). Then you might see the major contradiction. 1) Allegedly, the OT laws (and their tons of exclusivity) were instituted by God (via Moses and others). 2) According to most people on this board, Jesus is God. 3) If 1 and 2 are correct, then Jesus not only condones exclusivity, He's the author of it! And yet, you and Ithascome say that Jesus spoke AGAINST exclusivity (except the exclusivity of Himself being the only way). So, what will it be? Is exclusivity within the 2X2 sect something to be despised... or a time-honored Godly character trait? You can't have it both ways, ya know...
|
|
|
Post by gloryintruth on Sept 6, 2007 6:19:05 GMT -5
I could, but there is a limit to the length of a post that any reasonable human could be expected to actually read.
The stated ability to produce proof does not equate to proof itself. We are therefore left with an accusation which you refuse to substantiate. If you take your own assertions so flippantly, and will not take the time to lend them substance, why should I (or anyone else) take them at all seriously?
|
|
|
Post by your proof on Sept 6, 2007 7:41:42 GMT -5
I could, but there is a limit to the length of a post that any reasonable human could be expected to actually read.The stated ability to produce proof does not equate to proof itself. We are therefore left with an accusation which you refuse to substantiate. If you take your own assertions so flippantly, and will not take the time to lend them substance, why should I (or anyone else) take them at all seriously? You are an admitted spiritual bigot. I don't owe you squat.
|
|