Meeting w/Lyle Schober re Pedophile Issue

[juliette]

This afternoon my husband John and I, along with Scott Ross, met with Lyle Schober and Craig Winquist about this issue at my request. Lyle is the head worker in MN and Craig was Tim's companion. I won't attempt to outline the entire 1 1/2 hour meeting, but here is a summary:

- Neither Lyle nor Craig had read the Criminal Complaint, so we provided them a copy which they read.

- We expressed our concern and anger that this issue has not been properly handled thus far -- families that Tim has been with have not been notified.

- I gave Lyle a sample letter of what I would expect the church to send out.

- I was struck that Lyle and Craig seemed seriously out of touch with the reality of child molestation and standard procedures.

- I was also impressed at Lyle's attention to our concern and acknowledgement that things needed to be handled differently.

- I advised Lyle that I would like the notification to families to come from him, but that if it didn't, I would take the next steps myself.

- Lyle seemed open to sending out the letter and saw the value of doing so. He seemed to have no objections to the letter I drafted.

- Lyle seems to be more proactive than I would have expected about this issue, even though he seems to still be lacking the basic knowledge that most people "in the world" have. He had a meeting with his staff during the past year about child molestation, and let them know their responsibilities were to report anything they saw to the authorities without trying to determine the truth of the matter themselves (Tim was at this meeting).

- We talked at length about how issues like this have been covered up in the past and that lasting and severe damage had been done because of this. Lyle agreed.

- I plan on calling Lyle in two days to determine what action he will be taking.

- Scott printed out the entire thread on Child Molestation - Minnesota so they could see that how much attention this is getting. At that time there were over 2,000 hits after just two days.

If you don't know what this is about, please read the thread entitled Child Molestation - Minnesota.

Juli

[Scott Ross]

Howdy,

I was impressed with the fact that Lyle listened to what was said and was in agreement that he had a responsibility to those in his field concerning this matter.

I had no indication from him that there was any kind of 'cover up' concerning this. He has been in contact with the sheriffs department and has agreed to meet with them and help with the investigation in any way he can. He expressed a desire to make sure that he would in no way interfere with the investigation.

It was a good meeting with Lyle and Craig, and we will see how the investigation proceeds and how it is handled in the Minnesota field.

Scott

[freespirit]

Thank you, Juliette, John, Scott, for meeting with Lyle.

My impression of Lyle has always been really good--that he's truly a spiritual man. I've heard people say the same about him. Only God knows the heart, but that's my impression.

I'm going to say prayers around this. I know whatever is said and done will be difficult. ANY action or no action taken will be critiqued and that's never an easy path.

I pray for healing for families too.

Regardless of Tim's innocence or his guilt, I believe that families need to know that he was arrested and charged. Given the past history of the church, I believe that the workers need to publicly announce that child molestation is NOT okay. Parents need to know to protect their children EVEN around f&ws and that it's okay and right to come forward without fear when one of the little ones is harmed. Too many people have been hurt by this sort of thing being swept aside and hidden.

And then, most of all, I'm praying for a more Christ centered vision for us all.

peace,
freespirit

[ithascome]

I am glad to see this.

[Texas cowboy]

Is this an arab country or the USA -sounds to me like the old boy is guilty?Forget the accusation and trial- get Saddam's rope out!I know some of you are smelling blood but do we know the facts.Relax -this is not in the press yet -let alone a trial!!

[Scott Ross]

Howdy cowboy,

I have copies of the court documents. Tim has admitted to the charges against him (multiple), and the child has been interviewed and verifies this abuse that has taken place. (multiple)

Scott

[no name]

bescottross said:

I was impressed with the fact that Lyle listened to what was said and was in agreement that he had a responsibility to those in his field concerning this matter.

I had no indication from him that there was any kind of 'cover up' concerning this. He has been in contact with the sheriffs department and has agreed to meet with them and help with the investigation in any way he can. He expressed a desire to make sure that he would in no way interfere with the investigation.

Awesome. I do not personally know the parties involved (Lyle and Tim), but this sounds like it's the way things should be done. Great to hear. Thanks for sharing.

[my 2 cents]

Well done, Juilette, Scott, John, Lyle and Craig!!!

(And even Tim--for having the decency and honesty to admit to it)

No credit, or honor, of course, in what he did...But at least the victim won't be abused further in having to deal with trying to prove it.

Well done, also, to the parents, who were willing to do the right thing for their child, and report it to the proper authorities.

It's good to see the end of protection being provided for those who abuse the innocent and powerless.

[To Texas cowboy aka Ira Hobbs]

Texas said:

Is this an arab country or the USA -sounds to me like the old boy is guilty?Forget the accusation and trial- get Saddam's rope out!I know some of you are smelling blood but do we know the facts.Relax -this is not in the press yet -let alone a trial!!

Dear Ira Hobbs:

Shut up!

Thanks!

[flat out amazed]

Juliette, John, and Scott:

Thank you for your efforts.

Thank you for posting the notes from your meeting here.

This is really quite amazing and very, very encouraging.

I hope Lyle and Craig carry through as promised. I've seen how these things were handled by the workers in the past so I am a bit cynical right now. Nonetheless, I will be the first to give credit where credit is due... and right now, credit is due to Lyle and Craig for not excommunicating you. (Excommunication is how people like the three of you were handled a decade ago.)

Please keep us posted as I'm sure that current and ex members alike find it encouraging when things are being handled in a scriptural way.

[juliette]

Flat out amazed: None of us could be excommunicated, because we all exed ourselves along the way. None of us are part of the friends and workers fellowship. Juli

[Good]

my said:

Well done, Juilette, Scott, John, Lyle and Craig!!!

(And even Tim--for having the decency and honesty to admit to it)

No credit, or honor, of course, in what he did...But at least the victim won't be abused further in having to deal with trying to prove it.

Well done, also, to the parents, who were willing to do the right thing for their child, and report it to the proper authorities.

It's good to see the end of protection being provided for those who abuse the innocent and powerless.

I am glad they have acknowledged the problem, and are willing to inform people involved so proper steps can be taken to get help for all children that may have been involved.

No biggie that Tim admitted it. Often sexual offenders will admit they have done it. This is because they often have NO remorse about what they have done. Even after admitting it they still do not see what they have done as a problem. People like this are mentally unstable, and need psychiatric help.

[Ramona]

To: Juliette, John and Scott,

This is amazing what you did. I commend you for bringing the seriousness of this to their attention. I hope they appreciate your thoughtfulness and honesty. Whether we are in our out of the fellowship, the standard of right and wrong does not change. Ultimately, we are a unique people - in that we have a history together that causes us to have a deep connection. You just gave honor to that. Thanks!

[wingsofaneagle]

Thanks Juliette and Scott for taking this into your hands!! Now its up to the workers to do their part. I pray that they will follow through as promised.

[Johnny DeRaad]

Lyle was in my field for 2 years and I got to know him fairly well. ..I don't know of anyone who I'd think of as more honest and willing to do what's necessary, and right..he's a wise, gentle spirited man who always reminded me of my dad. .. .. it's possible he may take some heat from on up the line to do something else..hopefully he'll stand true to the needs of this family, and/or others to come! .. thanks you guys for pushing the accountability and openness factor here!

[wondering]

Are you, Juliette and hubby, and Scott from Minnesota and if so up in the Twin Cities area? I guess common sense tells me yes, but just wondering.

[Scott Ross]

Howdy,

I would like to point out that my role in this was more of an observer than anything. All credit for this meeting goes to Juli and John for having the courage to follow their convictions concerning this issue.

I pointed out to Lyle that because of our upbringing in the 'truth', there is a tendency towards 'worker worship' which can make members look the other way or to not bring issues such as this before other members of the church. It was discussed as to how these types of issues have been covered up by the f&w's in the past.

Since Juli and John only recently left the 'truth', I can understand and appreciate how much courage this took for them to not only ask for a meeting with the overseer, but to sit with them and ask such pointed questions and expect action to be taken.

It would be good if more of the friends still in the truth would hold the workers accountable as Juli and John did in this matter.

I would also like to point out again that I was very impressed by the attitude from Lyle and Craig towards not only Juli and John, but also towards me. They never questioned my presence, and answered any questions asked. I think that it took a lot of fortitude on Lyles part to sit down with 'exes' and answer questions and offer to do what he could.

I really believe that God was there with us in this meeting bringing workers and exes together in a spirit of cooperation that is rarely seen. It is a good sign, and I fully expect that Lyle will follow through on what was said in the meeting.


Scott

[guest5]

Hey, John, from the corn state. I agree with you about Lyle but it is hard for me to believe that these top guys don't know much about all the molesting problems that have and are going on. Iowa has never been immune by a long ways but the ones I knew about years ago were, as many have said, just moved to another field or most times our of state. I am afraid that if this would have happened to any of my kids even many years ago, they would have been turned in. If the ones who feel they are higher up than Lyle have wrong ideas about this, hopefully they will be charged also with obstruction.

[Scott Ross]

to wondering,

Yes we are all here in the Minneapolis area. I work downtown with the post office, and we live in the suburbs. Any questions you may have you don't want brought out here feel free to PM me (if you are a registered member) or you can email me at:

[e-mail]

Anyone who may wants to can email me privately if there are other questions you may have. I am sure that Juli wouldn't mind emails either.

If there are any others out there who may be afraid to speak with the workers, elders (or perhaps even family members), and would like to pass on information for Lyle concerning this, please let us (or someone) know, and we will be sure that he gets the information. Your anonymity will be protected if you so desire.

Scott

[Deleted]

I can chime in with others with an commendation to Juli for the courage to bring the concern to the workers ... I could seem strange that the concern would have to come from 'outsiders' --- really a person would think that it should have been more of an acute concern for the workers themselves and for the 'insiders' than for folks that have left the fellowship. But it doesn't surprize me!!

Like they say "The proof of the pudding is in the eating' - Hearing leading workers come with expressions of 'understanding' and even 'expressions of concern' is good (and not all that unusual) -- but it isn't unusual in 2x2 enviornment, that after that, except for 'a pat on the back' nothing is ever done. Will be interesting to see if there is any kind of tangable 'follow-through'. The group is unfortunatly quite allergic to even the basic aspects of accountablity.

[Cant believe it]

Even on the standingtrue list and Col1-18 list nothing is being said about this or the M-T list as far as that goes. You wouldn't dare mention it on standingtrue or poof, you are gone.

[Deleted]

Cant said:

Even on the standingtrue list and Col1-18 list nothing is being said about this or the M-T list as far as that goes. You wouldn't dare mention it on standingtrue or poof, you are gone.

I have been rejected from the standingtrue list -- but am a member of the M-T list and also of the 2x2 Doctrine list (where it hasn't been mentioned either). The reason I haven't opened a thread on the subject anywhere is that seeing I have absolutely no personal verifiable sources of info from the area, I thought I would give the issue a little time in the interests of credibility. The 'innocent until proven guilty in a court of law' principle is perhaps why the issue isn't more publicly available on the net as yet. It isn't the kind of issue that risks being forgotten quickly!!!

[Nathan9 to Scott]

bescottross said:

Howdy,

I would like to point out that my role in this was more of an observer than anything. All credit for this meeting goes to Juli and John for having the courage to follow their convictions concerning this issue.

I pointed out to Lyle that because of our upbringing in the 'truth', there is a tendency towards 'worker worship' which can make members look the other way or to not bring issues such as this before other members of the church. It was discussed as to how these types of issues have been covered up by the f&w's in the past.

Since Juli and John only recently left the 'truth', I can understand and appreciate how much courage this took for them to not only ask for a meeting with the overseer, but to sit with them and ask such pointed questions and expect action to be taken.

It would be good if more of the friends still in the truth would hold the workers accountable as Juli and John did in this matter.

I would also like to point out again that I was very impressed by the attitude from Lyle and Craig towards not only Juli and John, but also towards me. They never questioned my presence, and answered any questions asked. I think that it took a lot of fortitude on Lyles part to sit down with 'exes' and answer questions and offer to do what he could.

I really believe that God was there with us in this meeting bringing workers and exes together in a spirit of cooperation that is rarely seen. It is a good sign, and I fully expect that Lyle will follow through on what was said in the meeting.


Scott

Thanks, Scott, Julliet and John. I have talked to Lyle S. on the phone in the past. He seems to be a reasonable man. I hope he will do what is right and encourage different overseers to do what proper in the future on these serious matters within the ministry and fellowship.

Some of my friends and I are putting an article on children molestation, homosexual within the ministry and fellowship. Our purpose on helping the workers, the friends to realize how "Serious" these crimes are and what to do about it.

We will try to emphasize on how to deal with such workers with local authority and try not to move these workers to a different state or country but put them out of the work once they are guilty of such crimes.

If they don't remove these workers from the ministry they'll continue their crimes with different victims down the road. They should be removed from the ministry immediately and get some professional help ASAP.

[wa1nate]

More kudos to Juli, John and Scott. That took courage to do the right thing with the right motives.

Kevin

[Wondering]

Nathan9 said:

bescottross said:

Howdy,

I would like to point out that my role in this was more of an observer than anything. All credit for this meeting goes to Juli and John for having the courage to follow their convictions concerning this issue.

I pointed out to Lyle that because of our upbringing in the 'truth', there is a tendency towards 'worker worship' which can make members look the other way or to not bring issues such as this before other members of the church. It was discussed as to how these types of issues have been covered up by the f&w's in the past.

Since Juli and John only recently left the 'truth', I can understand and appreciate how much courage this took for them to not only ask for a meeting with the overseer, but to sit with them and ask such pointed questions and expect action to be taken.

It would be good if more of the friends still in the truth would hold the workers accountable as Juli and John did in this matter.

I would also like to point out again that I was very impressed by the attitude from Lyle and Craig towards not only Juli and John, but also towards me. They never questioned my presence, and answered any questions asked. I think that it took a lot of fortitude on Lyles part to sit down with 'exes' and answer questions and offer to do what he could.

I really believe that God was there with us in this meeting bringing workers and exes together in a spirit of cooperation that is rarely seen. It is a good sign, and I fully expect that Lyle will follow through on what was said in the meeting.


Scott

Thanks, Scott, Julliet and John. I have talked to Lyle S. on the phone in the past. He seems to be a reasonable man. I hope he will do what is right and encourage different overseers to do what proper in the future on these serious matters within the ministry and fellowship.

Some of my friends and I are putting an article on children molestation, homosexual within the ministry and fellowship. Our purpose on helping the workers, the friends to realize how "Serious" these crimes are and what to do about it.

We will try to emphasize on how to deal with such workers with local authority and try not to move these workers to a different state or country but put them out of the work once they are guilty of such crimes.

If they don't remove these workers from the ministry they'll continue their crimes with different victims down the road. They should be removed from the ministry immediately and get some professional help ASAP.

If you out all the homosexuals and pedophiles in the clergy, how many do you think will be left? Does anyone have any idea how pervasive they are within the ministry? You can probably get a pretty good estimate by looking at the Catholic Church. Do you plan to do some kind of study on the percentages?
Do you plan to publish your findings?

[ScholarGal]

juliette said:

- Lyle seems to be more proactive than I would have expected about this issue, even though he seems to still be lacking the basic knowledge that most people "in the world" have. He had a meeting with his staff during the past year about child molestation, and let them know their responsibilities were to report anything they saw to the authorities without trying to determine the truth of the matter themselves (Tim was at this meeting).

Huge thanks to Juli, John, and Scott for expressing their concerns in a direct and constructive manner.

Maybe you could also encourage Lyle Schober to check out this online ministry training program on sexual abuse and child molestation?
www.ministrysafe.com/training.html

This website has a training program for bible camp or VBS staff and volunteers that is required under Texas law. I think it would be an excellent introduction for workers who are lacking the "worldly" knowledge about sexual abuse issues.

Quote from the website:

The training and examination must include:
1. the definitions and effects of sexual abuse and child molestation;
2. the typical patterns of behavior and methods of operation of child molesters that put children at risk;
3. the warning signs and symptoms associated with sexual abuse of a child, recognizing these signs and symptoms, and the recommended methods of reporting suspected abuse; and
4. recommended rules and procedures to address, reduce, prevent, and report suspected sexual abuse of children.

[Kathy Lewis]

I appreciate what everyone has done to bring this problem to light and to confront Lyle with reality.

However, I want to warn everyone not to believe the innocent, wide eyed act that workers and professing people use when confronted with reality. The mind control and lifestyle of denial of reality produces this ability to quietly act like they had NO IDEA that anything could possibly be wrong. In one sense, their brains have shut down to reality and they can't admit what they actually see and know.

They will give the impression that they will do everything they can to deal with the issue and then bail out on responsibility. It isn't even feasible for them to take responsibility. They haven't taken responsibility all their lives for anything. How can they start now?

I suggest that anyone who has accurate knowledge of past sexual offenses committed by workers contact the Douglas County court house in Alexandria, MN 56308 or telephone [phone] to report this church group for protecting sexual predators.

I wonder if the parents would actually have contacted the authorities if someone else had not done so.

[Me again]

juliette said:

Flat out amazed: None of us could be excommunicated, because we all exed ourselves along the way. None of us are part of the friends and workers fellowship. Juli

Oh, I stand corrected.

Unfortunately, this changes things quite a bit.

As Edgar has said, now it will be interesting to see what kind of meaningful action, if any, is taken beyond your meeting with them. That the workers would seem cooperative with you is not a real surprise. Had they been just as cooperative with current members, they would have certainly set a new precedent.

My enthusiasm has subsided some.

Hopefully, Lyle and Craig will cooperate with the authorities, take action to ensure that all potential victims have been notified, and spread the word that such behavior in the group is neither acceptable nor tolerated.

Thanks for correcting my erroneous assumption.