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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2024 9:01:24 GMT -5
spot on mary, trillions of coincidences don't add up to a creation without a creator... Yep Wally how can people not believe in God? It amazes me! hubris and/or ignorance...
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Post by maryhig on Jan 4, 2024 9:01:56 GMT -5
Wow, I wonder what's going to keep the sun going for billions of years 🤔 I sent a link. I'll send it again. It's that hydrogen and helium that curlywurlysammagee was talking about and that you were eager to make fun of. Unlike Christians who can't agree on their own dogma, scientists generally agree on things and when they don't agree, they work together to find out. That's what makes science different from religion.www.space.com/14732-sun-burns-star-death.html
Stars like our sun form when a huge cloud of gas (mostly hydrogen and helium) grows so large that it collapses under its own weight. The pressure is so high in the center of that collapsing mass of gas that the heat reaches unimaginable levels, with temperatures so hot that hydrogen atoms lose their electrons.
Those naked hydrogen atoms then fuse together into helium atoms, and that reaction releases enough energy to counter the intense pressure of gravity collapsing the cloud of gas. The battle between gravity and the energy from fusion reactions fuels our sun and billions of other stars in our galaxy and beyond.
Anyway what's all that about? That doesn't show me that God doesn't exist, that strengthens my belief. All that couldn't happen without a greater mind behind it!
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Post by maryhig on Jan 4, 2024 9:02:44 GMT -5
Yep Wally how can people not believe in God? It amazes me! hubris and/or ignorance... I'll have to Google that one hubris? I'm not that clever. I don't know that that even means 😄I get English lessons here too 😊👍
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jan 4, 2024 12:55:23 GMT -5
spot on mary, trillions of coincidences don't add up to a creation without a creator... Yep Wally how can people not believe in God? It amazes me! I am embarrassed to say I once believed there was a god that greated everything. Once I saw there was no evidence for that and the available evidence pointed to something else then I realized the truth had set me free.
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Post by snow on Jan 4, 2024 17:01:17 GMT -5
Well if God can do it why not us? No one ever said we came from nothing. We are literally made of elements of the universe. The trouble is people have decided that a judgmental God is the creator and that God will send us to hell if we do something he doesn't like. I am 100% sure that of all the Gods mankind have dreamed up, the Christian God is no more probable than any of the others. Is there a creator of all things? Possibly, but you can bet it's not some petty being that cares how you dress, who you have sex with or any of the rules religions have dreamed up to follow so you don't offend that particular God. So what about God who created everything? No denomination, no religion, just God? Could you not even see that God can be there without any religion involved? Also who you have sex with? What do you mean by that? For instance, if you're married, would you like you husband sleeping with everyone? Those are the kinds of things that Jesus taught against. And he was right. We have to treat others how we would like to be treated ourselves. No matter what I believe, I still would treat someone right, but I'd still tell the truth. And that's what I'd want others to do to me. I doubt if there is a creator it cares about any of the rules religions put on people. There are rules in society that make society safer and that makes sense. The length of my hair or my dress are not among those rules. When I said who you have sex with I meant gender not sleeping around. I don't think a god would be sending anyone to hell for it either, but as far as our Western society goes it causes problems therefore probably not a good thing to do if you wish to stay in a relationship. But it's not a sin. There are cultures where they have many wives. Because it's the norm it doesn't cause the same kinds of problems it does in Western societies that want a monogamous relationship. I honestly don't understand how anyone can think that a creator would be so narrow that it wouldn't encompass all the different cultural norms of the world. What's wrong for a Christian would not necessarily be wrong for a Hindu for example.
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Post by snow on Jan 4, 2024 17:04:21 GMT -5
It seems that only the religious spout this "exploded into existence from nothing" The facts of the matter are that all the matter present today was contained in the "big bang" That is certainly not nothing. Now go and read about that for a few weeks or months until you understand it. Curly we can't just appear even if the bang was massive. We've been created as has everything around us. Everything is too complex not to have been created. We see things evolving all the time. Over the millions of years that earth has been around there has been plenty of time for changes in life. What you see is merely the outcome of all these changes. We are what the universe and environment on earth supports. If the environment was different and the changes were different we would be a whole different outcome and we would very likely think the very same thing that you think about what we turned out like.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 4, 2024 19:39:09 GMT -5
According to your logic, yes. There's a much more plausibly explanation for according to the Hebrew version of Genesis. You seem to do that, bring up what the Hebrews believe, what the Jews believe, I can tell you what Muslims and Asatrus believe too, if you're interested in their literature. Since the Old Testament is not of Christian origin, what is out of line with discussing the beliefs of the people who wrote the stuff? You've just decided I don't believe ANY of it because I don't believe your understanding of it. Why? I'm a student of religious belief (any belief) as an academic matter -- I just don't buy into the religiosity of the straight-jacket perfect believers. I agree with you. But you will have to admit that the account of the creation of Adam and Eve does NOT allow for an umbilical cord. The Hebrew "text" would help you with the discrepancy between your understanding of the belly button mystery and the existence of other "people" at the time.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 4, 2024 19:41:02 GMT -5
Wow, I wonder what's going to keep the sun going for billions of years 🤔 If you believe in eternity, billions of years isn't a problem.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2024 20:02:30 GMT -5
So what about God who created everything? No denomination, no religion, just God? Could you not even see that God can be there without any religion involved? Also who you have sex with? What do you mean by that? For instance, if you're married, would you like you husband sleeping with everyone? Those are the kinds of things that Jesus taught against. And he was right. We have to treat others how we would like to be treated ourselves. No matter what I believe, I still would treat someone right, but I'd still tell the truth. And that's what I'd want others to do to me. I doubt if there is a creator it cares about any of the rules religions put on people. There are rules in society that make society safer and that makes sense. The length of my hair or my dress are not among those rules. When I said who you have sex with I meant gender not sleeping around. I don't think a god would be sending anyone to hell for it either, but as far as our Western society goes it causes problems therefore probably not a good thing to do if you wish to stay in a relationship. But it's not a sin. There are cultures where they have many wives. Because it's the norm it doesn't cause the same kinds of problems it does in Western societies that want a monogamous relationship. I honestly don't understand how anyone can think that a creator would be so narrow that it wouldn't encompass all the different cultural norms of the world. What's wrong for a Christian would not necessarily be wrong for a Hindu for example. You don't think a creator would possibly have a right/wrong perspective over his creation? Why?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2024 20:07:11 GMT -5
Curly we can't just appear even if the bang was massive. We've been created as has everything around us. Everything is too complex not to have been created. We see things evolving all the time. Over the millions of years that earth has been around there has been plenty of time for changes in life. What you see is merely the outcome of all these changes. We are what the universe and environment on earth supports. If the environment was different and the changes were different we would be a whole different outcome and we would very likely think the very same thing that you think about what we turned out like. I've never seen a cat turn into a dog yet...adaptation yes? Evolution no....
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jan 4, 2024 23:40:12 GMT -5
So what about God who created everything? No denomination, no religion, just God? Could you not even see that God can be there without any religion involved? Also who you have sex with? What do you mean by that? For instance, if you're married, would you like you husband sleeping with everyone? Those are the kinds of things that Jesus taught against. And he was right. We have to treat others how we would like to be treated ourselves. No matter what I believe, I still would treat someone right, but I'd still tell the truth. And that's what I'd want others to do to me. I doubt if there is a creator it cares about any of the rules religions put on people. There are rules in society that make society safer and that makes sense. The length of my hair or my dress are not among those rules. When I said who you have sex with I meant gender not sleeping around. I don't think a god would be sending anyone to hell for it either, but as far as our Western society goes it causes problems therefore probably not a good thing to do if you wish to stay in a relationship. But it's not a sin. There are cultures where they have many wives. Because it's the norm it doesn't cause the same kinds of problems it does in Western societies that want a monogamous relationship. I honestly don't understand how anyone can think that a creator would be so narrow that it wouldn't encompass all the different cultural norms of the world. What's wrong for a Christian would not necessarily be wrong for a Hindu for example. Jacob had two wives and had sex with two other women as detailed in the bible. And found favour with his god.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2024 3:24:41 GMT -5
I doubt if there is a creator it cares about any of the rules religions put on people. There are rules in society that make society safer and that makes sense. The length of my hair or my dress are not among those rules. When I said who you have sex with I meant gender not sleeping around. I don't think a god would be sending anyone to hell for it either, but as far as our Western society goes it causes problems therefore probably not a good thing to do if you wish to stay in a relationship. But it's not a sin. There are cultures where they have many wives. Because it's the norm it doesn't cause the same kinds of problems it does in Western societies that want a monogamous relationship. I honestly don't understand how anyone can think that a creator would be so narrow that it wouldn't encompass all the different cultural norms of the world. What's wrong for a Christian would not necessarily be wrong for a Hindu for example. Jacob had two wives and had sex with two other women as detailed in the bible. And found favour with his god. That was not the original setup by any measure. Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. << Genesis 2 as early as it gets, you see anything plural there(wife)? That would have had more to do with the local laws and traditions of the time not anything biblically (God)approved.
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Post by maryhig on Jan 5, 2024 4:09:36 GMT -5
Yep Wally how can people not believe in God? It amazes me! I am embarrassed to say I once believed there was a god that greated everything. Once I saw there was no evidence for that and the available evidence pointed to something else then I realized the truth had set me free. Ah curly I can't believe you can't see that creation is evidence that God is there?
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Post by maryhig on Jan 5, 2024 4:16:33 GMT -5
So what about God who created everything? No denomination, no religion, just God? Could you not even see that God can be there without any religion involved? Also who you have sex with? What do you mean by that? For instance, if you're married, would you like you husband sleeping with everyone? Those are the kinds of things that Jesus taught against. And he was right. We have to treat others how we would like to be treated ourselves. No matter what I believe, I still would treat someone right, but I'd still tell the truth. And that's what I'd want others to do to me. I doubt if there is a creator it cares about any of the rules religions put on people. There are rules in society that make society safer and that makes sense. The length of my hair or my dress are not among those rules. When I said who you have sex with I meant gender not sleeping around. I don't think a god would be sending anyone to hell for it either, but as far as our Western society goes it causes problems therefore probably not a good thing to do if you wish to stay in a relationship. But it's not a sin. There are cultures where they have many wives. Because it's the norm it doesn't cause the same kinds of problems it does in Western societies that want a monogamous relationship. I honestly don't understand how anyone can think that a creator would be so narrow that it wouldn't encompass all the different cultural norms of the world. What's wrong for a Christian would not necessarily be wrong for a Hindu for example. Nature itself shows us that gay acts are wrong, only a man and woman can bring forth children. That shows us that even in nature this is the right way to be. And I do believe that it's wrong before God, for a man to do what he does to another man is gross, where he does it to get pleasure should be used to go to the toilet not for anything else. It just brings forth dirt and it's a disgusting act. A man and a woman brings forth life because that's the way it should be done.
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Post by maryhig on Jan 5, 2024 4:18:55 GMT -5
Curly we can't just appear even if the bang was massive. We've been created as has everything around us. Everything is too complex not to have been created. We see things evolving all the time. Over the millions of years that earth has been around there has been plenty of time for changes in life. What you see is merely the outcome of all these changes. We are what the universe and environment on earth supports. If the environment was different and the changes were different we would be a whole different outcome and we would very likely think the very same thing that you think about what we turned out like. But regardless of how it started, however everything evolved, there has to be a creactor and to me that's the living God.
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Post by maryhig on Jan 5, 2024 4:49:32 GMT -5
You seem to do that, bring up what the Hebrews believe, what the Jews believe, I can tell you what Muslims and Asatrus believe too, if you're interested in their literature. Since the Old Testament is not of Christian origin, what is out of line with discussing the beliefs of the people who wrote the stuff? You've just decided I don't believe ANY of it because I don't believe your understanding of it. Why? I'm a student of religious belief (any belief) as an academic matter -- I just don't buy into the religiosity of the straight-jacket perfect believers. I agree with you. But you will have to admit that the account of the creation of Adam and Eve does NOT allow for an umbilical cord. The Hebrew "text" would help you with the discrepancy between your understanding of the belly button mystery and the existence of other "people" at the time. Firstly it doesn't matter what religions there are, it doesn't mean God doesn't exist. Religion is man made, God I can never deny God, for one I've had proof in my life that he's there, and two, I just look a around me and see that all this around us cannot have just come from nothing, it's impossible. The way nature is shows us that there has to be a greater mind behind everything. And why wouldn't Adam and Eve have a belly button? If there were other people they then they had parents.
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Post by maryhig on Jan 5, 2024 4:56:27 GMT -5
Wow, I wonder what's going to keep the sun going for billions of years 🤔 If you believe in eternity, billions of years isn't a problem. It's a problem if there is nothing to keep the sun shining! How can the sun burn for billions of years without something there to keep it burning? Even naturally a fire needs fuel and it can't keep burning unless we put coal on it. So there's no way the sun can keep burning without a greater mind behind it, and to me that's God. So God exists and he's keeping the sun burning and shining for those billions of years, there's no other way it can keep burning for that long without God.
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Post by maryhig on Jan 5, 2024 4:59:28 GMT -5
We see things evolving all the time. Over the millions of years that earth has been around there has been plenty of time for changes in life. What you see is merely the outcome of all these changes. We are what the universe and environment on earth supports. If the environment was different and the changes were different we would be a whole different outcome and we would very likely think the very same thing that you think about what we turned out like. I've never seen a cat turn into a dog yet...adaptation yes? Evolution no.... Yes Wally that's true, and even nature again shows us how God works, you don't plant a seed of a flower and get a vegetable. The seed brings forth seed after it's kind. So a man is a man and a woman is a woman and that's it.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 5, 2024 5:49:28 GMT -5
And why wouldn't Adam and Eve have a belly button? If there were other people they then they had parents. I thought that part was the easiest part. This is the fundamentalist/creationist's answer: The account as the account in Genesis 1,2. So, God created Adam and Eve with umbilical cords, or did he create them with bloody openings on their abdomens? That part should not be confused with the idea that there were other people besides Adam and Eve at the time.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 5, 2024 6:04:34 GMT -5
If you believe in eternity, billions of years isn't a problem. It's a problem if there is nothing to keep the sun shining! How can the sun burn for billions of years without something there to keep it burning? I think you misread what he meant by billions of years -- without adding fuel. You mistook the billion years to suggest eternity. What was meant was that it will be that long until the sun burns out, and dies. The logic would be knowing that the sun itself is the fuel, and it will take that long before it will have been completely dried up. Now that was the logic before you realized that the sun is the fuel, and the fire, and the energy that sustains all life So now it's not so magical after all. So can we blame something on the HS, or the scientists?
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jan 5, 2024 7:56:29 GMT -5
Jacob had two wives and had sex with two other women as detailed in the bible. And found favour with his god. That was not the original setup by any measure. Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. << Genesis 2 as early as it gets, you see anything plural there(wife)? That would have had more to do with the local laws and traditions of the time not anything biblically (God)approved. You better tell your god that he got it wrong.
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Post by maryhig on Jan 5, 2024 10:12:46 GMT -5
And why wouldn't Adam and Eve have a belly button? If there were other people they then they had parents. I thought that part was the easiest part. This is the fundamentalist/creationist's answer: The account as the account in Genesis 1,2. So, God created Adam and Eve with umbilical cords, or did he create them with bloody openings on their abdomens? That part should not be confused with the idea that there were other people besides Adam and Eve at the time. Eh? Adam and Eve would have been born so had umbilical cords. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that Adam and Eve were the first man and women.
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Post by maryhig on Jan 5, 2024 10:18:10 GMT -5
It's a problem if there is nothing to keep the sun shining! How can the sun burn for billions of years without something there to keep it burning? I think you misread what he meant by billions of years -- without adding fuel. You mistook the billion years to suggest eternity. What was meant was that it will be that long until the sun burns out, and dies. The logic would be knowing that the sun itself is the fuel, and it will take that long before it will have been completely dried up. Now that was the logic before you realized that the sun is the fuel, and the fire, and the energy that sustains all life So now it's not so magical after all. So can we blame something on the HS, or the scientists? So how can the sun burn for billions of years without burning out. It should have burnt our millions of years ago. Fire burns through things so quickly yet the sun has lasted for billions of years without fuel being added and you say there's no God?
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Post by rk0atheist on Jan 5, 2024 10:34:57 GMT -5
So how can the sun burn for billions of years without burning out. It should have burnt our millions of years ago. Fire burns through things so quickly yet the sun has lasted for billions of years without fuel being added and you say there's no God?
Because it's big. It's really, really, REALLY big. But it is not the biggest star in the galaxy. And the Sun is not fire.
Do you understand what the difference is between solar system, galaxy, and universe?
Do you know how many planets there are? Can you name them?
How about this one; What is the brightest star in our solar system? I saw that on a TV show where they were asking random people on the street.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2024 10:58:23 GMT -5
That was not the original setup by any measure. Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. << Genesis 2 as early as it gets, you see anything plural there(wife)? That would have had more to do with the local laws and traditions of the time not anything biblically (God)approved. You better tell your god that he got it wrong. God didn't get it wrong, humans did....
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jan 5, 2024 14:38:14 GMT -5
I think you misread what he meant by billions of years -- without adding fuel. You mistook the billion years to suggest eternity. What was meant was that it will be that long until the sun burns out, and dies. The logic would be knowing that the sun itself is the fuel, and it will take that long before it will have been completely dried up. Now that was the logic before you realized that the sun is the fuel, and the fire, and the energy that sustains all life So now it's not so magical after all. So can we blame something on the HS, or the scientists? So how can the sun burn for billions of years without burning out. It should have burnt our millions of years ago. Fire burns through things so quickly yet the sun has lasted for billions of years without fuel being added and you say there's no God? Read about stars and particularly our star, the Sun and you will find the answer to your question.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jan 5, 2024 14:39:10 GMT -5
You better tell your god that he got it wrong. God didn't get it wrong, humans did.... So your god approved of Jacob getting it wrong.
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Post by snow on Jan 5, 2024 15:30:47 GMT -5
I doubt if there is a creator it cares about any of the rules religions put on people. There are rules in society that make society safer and that makes sense. The length of my hair or my dress are not among those rules. When I said who you have sex with I meant gender not sleeping around. I don't think a god would be sending anyone to hell for it either, but as far as our Western society goes it causes problems therefore probably not a good thing to do if you wish to stay in a relationship. But it's not a sin. There are cultures where they have many wives. Because it's the norm it doesn't cause the same kinds of problems it does in Western societies that want a monogamous relationship. I honestly don't understand how anyone can think that a creator would be so narrow that it wouldn't encompass all the different cultural norms of the world. What's wrong for a Christian would not necessarily be wrong for a Hindu for example. You don't think a creator would possibly have a right/wrong perspective over his creation? Why? Because it's not personally involved with the inhabitants of one tiny planet in a huge universe? People who believe in God seem to think they are the focus of this entity and the likelihood of that is very improbable. Just to be clear I did say 'IF' there is a creator I don't see why it would bother with the most unimportant tendencies of one small cluster of what evolved on one tiny planet in a huge universe.
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