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Post by janet on Jul 26, 2007 10:42:59 GMT -5
As a granny I am tired of doing Convention Child sitting because they young ones cannot handle the long meetings nor do they understand them. I usually volunteer for my grandkids but do miss a lot of meetings.
Would it not be great if there was a separate tent or room set up for the young ones. They could have activities and little bible studies geared to their level of understanding and concentration. They need the mild milk and are not ready for strong meat.
Why is this a no no. Is there also something in Matthew 10 or the the the teachings of Paul which mandates that the Children must be kept in the Conventions which were from Jesus day. ;D
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Post by Nursery on Jul 26, 2007 10:45:41 GMT -5
I have been to convention where they have had such sheds set up
ON is where there is a little carpeted area, with seat sitting around. Like a sunday morning meeting. With speakers so you can here what is being said in the convention tents. Little kids free to sit and play on the floor with toys and run around happily. Pretty much can do anything...
But no bible stories or studies, unless done by the parents....
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Post by janet on Jul 26, 2007 10:49:05 GMT -5
I have been to convention where they have had such sheds set up ON is where there is a little carpeted area, with seat sitting around. Like a sunday morning meeting. With speakers so you can here what is being said in the convention tents. Little kids free to sit and play on the floor with toys and run around happily. Pretty much can do anything... But no bible stories or studies, unless done by the parents.... I am not talking about a toddler tent. I am talking about children from 5 to 8. They can get little bible studies geared to their level.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jul 26, 2007 10:55:45 GMT -5
Was this child arrangement at a conv you attended a 2x2 convention?? Or some other group's convention?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2007 11:39:31 GMT -5
As a granny I am tired of doing Convention Child sitting because they young ones cannot handle the long meetings nor do they understand them. I usually volunteer for my grandkids but do miss a lot of meetings. Would it not be great if there was a separate tent or room set up for the young ones. They could have activities and little bible studies geared to their level of understanding and concentration. They need the mild milk and are not ready for strong meat. Why is this a no no. Is there also something in Matthew 10 or the the the teachings of Paul which mandates that the Children must be kept in the Conventions which were from Jesus day. ;D Absolutely right Janet, I have advocated such too. For some reason unbeknownst to me, the workers believe that their "one size fits all" style of meetings will somehow feed all needs, all age groups, all cultures. That takes a lot of faith imo, blind faith at that. Our church has tons of needs and we barely scratch the surface toward meeting those needs. Jesus spoke on all kinds of levels, not always to the multitude. He also spoke to disciples only, the 12 disciples only, the religious groups, sinners and accusers(woman found in adultery), and individuals. The whole gamut. Why we think that congregational preaching (with very few exceptions) is the only way to go is far beyond me.
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Post by Nursery on Jul 26, 2007 12:11:52 GMT -5
Yes
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timber
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Post by timber on Jul 26, 2007 13:04:47 GMT -5
Having a seperate area for children would make us too much like other churches and we wouldn't want that now would we?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2007 13:13:40 GMT -5
Having a seperate area for children would make us too much like other churches and we wouldn't want that now would we? That's probably about the best explanation we're going to get. Admitting that we are not serving our congregants properly would also be a big hurdle for us to leap over, so our pride will prevent changes for the good I would expect.
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Post by janet on Jul 26, 2007 14:21:14 GMT -5
Having a seperate area for children would make us too much like other churches and we wouldn't want that now would we? That's probably about the best explanation we're going to get. Admitting that we are not serving our congregants properly would also be a big hurdle for us to leap over, so our pride will prevent changes for the good I would expect. Well with all the quips aside. We should make a change in some of these areas. It is way over due to the point of just silly.
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Post by withopeneyes (Mandy) on Jul 26, 2007 16:12:18 GMT -5
I would love to see something more geared to the tween age and younger that is on their level, geared toward their lives in this day and age, etc in meetings. However, I'm pretty sure that will never happen, except here and there on a Friday or Saturday evening.
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Post by Brick on Jul 26, 2007 16:31:30 GMT -5
Well with all the quips aside. We should make a change in some of these areas. It is way over due to the point of just silly. I agree. But how to make that happen? Does anyone else feel this way? C'mon. Speak up! Whaddaya think?
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Post by diet coke on Jul 26, 2007 17:17:31 GMT -5
honestly...how would one even go about recommending or volunteering to help with such a thing? Even if you have a good rapport with a favorite worker, he/she would feel uncomfortable taking any such suggestion to the head honcho...it just isn't done. Y'all gonna call the overseer yourself? No, no changes are likely to be made.
A side point: I've come to realize that this church highly respects the elderly. And I cannot say that is a bad thing...who needs religion more than they. It's a Godsend for my mother (bad pun intended). And the elderly do not want change.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2007 17:25:21 GMT -5
Well with all the quips aside. We should make a change in some of these areas. It is way over due to the point of just silly. I agree. But how to make that happen? Does anyone else feel this way? C'mon. Speak up! Whaddaya think? There is a way, but not within our system. In our church, only the workers are allowed to sanction and operate such a thing. However, even if they did, they are not particularly qualified to run a good program for kids which would both hold their attention and convey the simple messages of Christ. Parents could go ahead and design such a program, but it would meet so much resistance in the church that it wouldn't worth the hassle for you or your kids. The answer is this: send your kids to a quality Christian summer camp. Check out your local churches which have good weekly kids' programs which are both fun and bible based. Been there, done that, and it's a good thing. It doesn't steal your kids from the 2x2 church either, the boogeyman just isn't there. They also meet good friends from good families and will be less likely to run with wolves otherwise.
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Post by Brick on Jul 26, 2007 18:20:01 GMT -5
A suggestion: maybe you have a good relationship with an open minded worker. Bring it up in a conversation about how you feel the need for your children to receive better quality teaching on biblical topics than through the osmosis of regular meetings, which are obviously oriented toward adults. Plant the seed. Water it. Maybe it will grow. Pray about it.
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Post by gloryintruth on Jul 26, 2007 18:25:49 GMT -5
[Janet Wrote] As a granny I am tired of doing Convention Child sitting because they young ones cannot handle the long meetings nor do they understand them. I usually volunteer for my grandkids but do miss a lot of meetings.
If this is the same Janet who "burst a bladder" laughing about my alleged faith in a cult rather than in Christ, then I should imagine that missing "a lot of meetings" is not going to make a major impact, somehow.
[Janet Wrote] Would it not be great if there was a separate tent or room set up for the young ones. They could have activities and little bible studies geared to their level of understanding and concentration. They need the mild milk and are not ready for strong meat.
Oh the hypocrisy! Oh the malice aforethought!
To use children as the beating stick against which to condemn the Church and criticise the workers, reminds me of an ancient Iraqi war practice in which soliders would make children run among their horses as they charged enemy lines, knowing that any archer would be loath to let fly lest they injure or kill one of them.
They need mild milk indeed!
[Janet Wrote] Why is this a no no. Is there also something in Matthew 10 or the the the teachings of Paul which mandates that the Children must be kept in the Conventions which were from Jesus day.
Why do I suddenly feel as though I am back in the classroom, maintaining a rather one-sided conversation with myself, and hearing hushed sblack persons from the boys down the back? Wink, wink, nudge, nudge - "conventions which were from Jesus' day" - inhouse humour.
The Church believes, as did the Apostolic Church and the Old Testament Church of the house of Israel, that educating children in the ways of the Lord is the duty, responsibility and privledge of parents, not an institution. Moses taught that when children ask, "What are the meaning of these things?" the answer comes from the parents - not from the assembly of elders or the prophets - and they should give a ready response: "This is a memorial to the LORD who delivered us from the land of our bondage".
The Apostle Paul taught us in the Gospel, "Raise your children in the fear and admonition of the Lord", which indeed, is a far greater instruction than the mechanistic recitation of prayers, and colouring cute images of Noah's Ark.
Because Sunday School does not grant a child faith. I know from personal experience of teaching religion in schools that it is a purely superficial thing; history; doctrine; comprehension. And that is the extent of it. For Paul teaches us, "Faith comes through hearing and hearing the word of the Lord" and comes only from the Spirit of God enlightening the mind.
Far better that children learn that something immensely important is happening in the proclamation of the gospel - a message from Heaven - and that they grow up seeing reverent and devout people worshipping God, than that they be severed from the congregation, squirreled away, and given endless hours of "edu-tainment" - entertainment to shut them up, thinly disguised with a religious theme and overtone.
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matia
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Post by matia on Jul 26, 2007 20:50:39 GMT -5
Just thought I should add my 2 pence worth The workers would NOT have a seperate childrens area , We were not even allowed to attend BIBLE IN SCHOOLS , just simple bible teaching What is the PROBLEM with them. mjr207 NZ
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Post by janet on Jul 26, 2007 20:55:18 GMT -5
Oh poor GIT. Your silly stupid answers are still making me ROLF. Sorry for your confusion but its not my fault you are blind.
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Post by withopeneyes (Mandy) on Jul 26, 2007 21:37:51 GMT -5
I very much doubt (okay, Im certain) that such a thing will never come about. Even if a couple workers agree, there will always be a load of them (along with a load of friends) who will be against it.
That very much bothers me.
I love that I can go to my church, talk to a few people, and organize something with their help. I've really been moved to put together a fellowship of mothers who meet together on at least a bi-weekly basis to discuss things, help each other, mentor each other, and praise/worship God together for the blessings He has given us in our homes. I love that, when I discuss this idea with others, they are fully supportive and want to help me accomplish it... and I don't have to fear someone telling me, "That's a ridiculous idea."
I feel that teaching our children about Christ, teaching about his love, mercy, grace.... his sacrifice, is a HUGE job. Of course it's the main job of the parents, but we certainly need to come together as a Christian community.... we really do need a village to help guide us as parents!
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Bonnie
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Post by Bonnie on Jul 26, 2007 23:00:41 GMT -5
After leaving meetings, and then attending a bible based church, I truly felt the need to give back to a group/church/Christians that had feed my soul through sound bible teaching that I drank up. Please don't take this (those who still go to meeting) as if I think all that go to meeting don't get any understanding. I just didn't.
Anyway, I felt moved to help with Sunday school, with a lot of apprehension. I felt that even after 14 years of reading the bible I didn't know much about the scriptures. I also worried about what kind of things would be taught, or would it just be play time.
I was never so encouraged by the bible based teaching that went on in the children's programs. Bible stories at their level, encouragement to go against the world by doing what Jesus taught while on the earth etc.
One of of the 1st graders I taught could quote more scripture than me, she was part of AWANA (I think that is how it is spelled), and I still don't know what it stands for, but when you hear a little child speak from their heart like this one. Wow
Yes, I think having things geared to children is essential, and yes I believe the teaching of the parents are essential.
Kathy
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Post by Brad Lewis on Jul 26, 2007 23:04:14 GMT -5
I have been to convention where they have had such sheds set up ON is where there is a little carpeted area, with seat sitting around. Like a sunday morning meeting. With speakers so you can here what is being said in the convention tents. Little kids free to sit and play on the floor with toys and run around happily. Pretty much can do anything... But no bible stories or studies, unless done by the parents.... I am not talking about a toddler tent. I am talking about children from 5 to 8. They can get little bible studies geared to their level. They don't want kids learning about the Bible without the propaganda. What'dya think they were anyway, Christians? Brad
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Post by Brad Lewis on Jul 26, 2007 23:06:06 GMT -5
[Janet Wrote] As a granny I am tired of doing Convention Child sitting because they young ones cannot handle the long meetings nor do they understand them. I usually volunteer for my grandkids but do miss a lot of meetings.If this is the same Janet who "burst a bladder" laughing about my alleged faith in a cult rather than in Christ, then I should imagine that missing "a lot of meetings" is not going to make a major impact, somehow. [Janet Wrote] Would it not be great if there was a separate tent or room set up for the young ones. They could have activities and little bible studies geared to their level of understanding and concentration. They need the mild milk and are not ready for strong meat.Oh the hypocrisy! Oh the malice aforethought! To use children as the beating stick against which to condemn the Church and criticise the workers, reminds me of an ancient Iraqi war practice in which soliders would make children run among their horses as they charged enemy lines, knowing that any archer would be loath to let fly lest they injure or kill one of them. They need mild milk indeed! [Janet Wrote] Why is this a no no. Is there also something in Matthew 10 or the the the teachings of Paul which mandates that the Children must be kept in the Conventions which were from Jesus day.Why do I suddenly feel as though I am back in the classroom, maintaining a rather one-sided conversation with myself, and hearing hushed sblack persons from the boys down the back? Wink, wink, nudge, nudge - "conventions which were from Jesus' day" - inhouse humour. The Church believes, as did the Apostolic Church and the Old Testament Church of the house of Israel, that educating children in the ways of the Lord is the duty, responsibility and privledge of parents, not an institution. Moses taught that when children ask, " What are the meaning of these things?" the answer comes from the parents - not from the assembly of elders or the prophets - and they should give a ready response: " This is a memorial to the LORD who delivered us from the land of our bondage". The Apostle Paul taught us in the Gospel, " Raise your children in the fear and admonition of the Lord", which indeed, is a far greater instruction than the mechanistic recitation of prayers, and colouring cute images of Noah's Ark. Because Sunday School does not grant a child faith. I know from personal experience of teaching religion in schools that it is a purely superficial thing; history; doctrine; comprehension. And that is the extent of it. For Paul teaches us, " Faith comes through hearing and hearing the word of the Lord" and comes only from the Spirit of God enlightening the mind. Far better that children learn that something immensely important is happening in the proclamation of the gospel - a message from Heaven - and that they grow up seeing reverent and devout people worshipping God, than that they be severed from the congregation, squirreled away, and given endless hours of "edu-tainment" - entertainment to shut them up, thinly disguised with a religious theme and overtone. GIP (Glory in Puke) Please make your posts much longer. I don't read them, but I strongly feel that if you can take more time to write your drivel, less people will read them and it may keep you out of jail. Thanks for considering these matters. Yours truly, Brad
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Post by Brad Lewis on Jul 26, 2007 23:07:31 GMT -5
Oh poor GIT. Your silly stupid answers are still making me ROLF. Sorry for your confusion but its not my fault you are blind. Rolfing is a respectable profession. I think Ralphing is a better term especially considering some who I know that are 2x2s named Ralph. Brad
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Post by gloryintruth on Jul 27, 2007 2:37:16 GMT -5
[Janet Wrote] Oh poor GIT. Your silly stupid answers are still making me ROLF. Sorry for your confusion but its not my fault you are blind.
If only were all were as erudite as you, Janet, so that we could demolish strongholds with two lines of text. Unfortunately, most of us require explanation for points made, and this includes me.
You say that my answers are "silly stupid". I wonder whether you could explain my stupidity in relation to the points I raised. Is it stupid to believe and maintain that parents have primary responsibility for instructing children in Christ, or is it stupidity to believe that the function of some "Sunday School" type arrangements is to amuse children? Or perhaps it is stupidity for me to suggest that religious instruction tends to cover only the mechanistic elements, and does not impart saving faith?
You say I am confused. Confusion in an argumentative sense would involve two comments being made which cancel each other out or which are not sustained by available evidence, however, you have failed to point out which conflicting and confused comments I have made.
Moreover, you write that I am blind. I am not sure how you can so boldly make this determination about someone else's spiritual and intellectual condition without ever having met them, but such omniscient comments are surely themselves indicators of a level of misunderstanding? For, when you say I am blind, you maintain by implication that you can see; that you have vision; and enlightenment. You place yourself in a position superior to mine. But is this not reminiscent of the text in the scripture where it says, "But now, because you say you see, therefore you are blind?"
I do not claim I can see all things. But I do believe I have some understanding, however limited, and that it is only courtesy to treat other people's writings with a measure of respect, as shown by a serious reply. One does marvel, however, at the fact you go to conventions if you have such a view of the friends, workers and our "cult".
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Post by gloryintruth on Jul 27, 2007 2:41:58 GMT -5
[Brad Wrote] Please make your posts much longer. I don't read them, but I strongly feel that if you can take more time to write your drivel, less people will read them and it may keep you out of jail.
Are you sure you want to admit this? That you do not even read the posts of the people you interact with; and that you have accused me of being a devil-worshipper, opposed to Christ, without having perused my writings?
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Post by janet on Jul 27, 2007 7:32:53 GMT -5
[Brad Wrote] Please make your posts much longer. I don't read them, but I strongly feel that if you can take more time to write your drivel, less people will read them and it may keep you out of jail.Are you sure you want to admit this? That you do not even read the posts of the people you interact with; and that you have accused me of being a devil-worshipper, opposed to Christ, without having perused my writings? Was someone trying to say something or was that Gas they just went by. Hellloooo Is anybody out there. Hellooooo -- Hum oH well the lights are off anyways. Hum must of been a day dream.
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Post by gloryintruth on Jul 27, 2007 7:49:47 GMT -5
[Janet Wrote] Was someone trying to say something or was that Gas they just went by. Hellloooo Is anybody out there. Hellooooo -- Hum oH well the lights are off anyways. Hum must of been a day dream.
Right. Stream of conscience stuff, where you comment on your own thoughts in real time and call it humour. Oh, really, this is too pathetic for words. I have adolescent students whose writing and communication abilities exceeds this by lightyears.
Note to Janet: are you another Brad?
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Post by janet on Jul 27, 2007 7:55:46 GMT -5
Geez What is going on in here. I keep hearing this strange hissing sound. Maybe there is a short in the wires.
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Post by gloryintruth on Jul 27, 2007 8:04:31 GMT -5
[Janet Wrote] Geez What is going on in here. I keep hearing this strange hissing sound. Maybe there is a short in the wires.
Check that electronic gadget inserted into your ear, and replace battery according to manufacturer's instructions. Failing that, feel along lobotomy stitches and ensure nothing has emerged since last surgical encounter.
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