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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2020 12:48:22 GMT -5
Why does your God allow children to be sexually abused? Evil exists and produces its results. But evil will not ultimately triumph. Without evil we will be in heaven. That awaits beyond this life.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2020 12:54:21 GMT -5
That 'still small voice' sure doesn't help the child victims of CSA or have any practical impact does it Wally. CSA victims suffer terribly. But there are many of them who value the 'still small voice' that you consider valueless.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jan 18, 2020 13:31:19 GMT -5
That 'still small voice' sure doesn't help the child victims of CSA or have any practical impact does it Wally. CSA victims suffer terribly. But there are many of them who value the 'still small voice' that you consider valueless. Is this still small voice mentioned in the bible?
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Post by snow on Jan 18, 2020 13:35:04 GMT -5
Apparently he only got his own understanding after he left the work. I'm sure he still doesn't tell the workers that they don't understand. I tell them in my Sunday morning meetings, Wed. night Bible studies in a nice way so I don't want to offend them "You don't understand." I explain more "What they don't Understand" on TMB, the 2x2s believe Jesus is the Son of God, but he is NOT God. However, The 2x2s worship Jesus on every Sunday morning meetings with singing, praises, and expressing to Him thanksgiving for the Emblems/Bread and wine and put Him on the same LEVEL as God the Father and Holy Spirit form of Worship/Adoration...
If Jesus is NOT God like unto the Father then why, they worship Him on the same level as God the Father?
Why don't you want to offend them? On here you state it's for our own good, tough love, when you aren't loving about us not understanding, so why the kid glove treatment for those in meetings? What if they never 'get it' because you aren't acting in meeting like you do here?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2020 13:37:46 GMT -5
CSA victims suffer terribly. But there are many of them who value the 'still small voice' that you consider valueless. Is this still small voice mentioned in the bible? 1Ki 19:12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice.
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Post by snow on Jan 18, 2020 13:41:40 GMT -5
“The human voice can never reach the distance that is covered by the still small voice of conscience.” Mahatma Gandhi So the still small voice comes from within a person, it is their conscience. It does not come from any other source. Perhaps that is my problem, my Wife says " I have a brand new conscience, never been used". Good points . The “ Evil “within us humans will not be eliminated by participation in or the destruction of “institutions “ , as good or bad as they may be . Another wise philosopher, when talking about similar questions, answered it like this “. when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand: 15There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man. 16If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.” John Prine , has a way of putting it into music . Some people ain’t human. m.youtube.com/watch?v=uIWotODqidEAlvin I agree, it's not the institutions it's the people in the institutions and what they believe that's the problem. Most secular institutions that have CSA happen in their ranks will do something about it. But religions seem to have a far harder time when CSA happens in their ranks. It's such an ego thing, reputation of the religion that they will turn a blind eye to try and appear 'pure' to the world. Here is an example of just how much they try to justify CSA in their ranks. www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/feb/27/cardinal-pell-will-go-straight-to-jail-as-bail-application-is-withdrawnSaw John Prime years ago in Calgary. It was a really good concert.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2020 13:45:30 GMT -5
Good points . The “ Evil “within us humans will not be eliminated by participation in or the destruction of “institutions “ , as good or bad as they may be . Another wise philosopher, when talking about similar questions, answered it like this “. when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand: 15There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man. 16If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.” John Prine , has a way of putting it into music . Some people ain’t human. m.youtube.com/watch?v=uIWotODqidEAlvin I agree, it's not the institutions it's the people in the institutions and what they believe that's the problem. Most secular institutions that have CSA happen in their ranks will do something about it. But religions seem to have a far harder time when CSA happens in their ranks. It's such an ego thing, reputation of the religion that they will turn a blind eye to try and appear 'pure' to the world. Saw John Prime years ago in Calgary. It was a really good concert. not saying its right to ignore the law but for religious folks its sometimes about forgiving your enemy and turning the other cheek and not reputation...
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Post by snow on Jan 18, 2020 13:49:20 GMT -5
I agree, it's not the institutions it's the people in the institutions and what they believe that's the problem. Most secular institutions that have CSA happen in their ranks will do something about it. But religions seem to have a far harder time when CSA happens in their ranks. It's such an ego thing, reputation of the religion that they will turn a blind eye to try and appear 'pure' to the world. Saw John Prime years ago in Calgary. It was a really good concert. not saying its right to ignore the law but for religious folks its sometimes about forgiving your enemy and turning the other cheek and not reputation... Wally, I'm all for forgiving, but there is no reason why we can't get these people out of society where they can harm children and still forgive them. We should not leave known predators in society to harm innocent children. The End. Turning the other cheek! Really? That mentality just leaves them in society to continue the CSA as long as they want! Why would that ever be acceptable in any group? I know you don't support CSA.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2020 13:51:02 GMT -5
not saying its right to ignore the law but for religious folks its sometimes about forgiving your enemy and turning the other cheek and not reputation... Wally, I'm all for forgiving, but there is no reason why we can't get these people out of society where they can harm children and still forgive them. We should not leave known predators in society to harm innocent children. The End. Turning the other cheek! Really? That mentality just leaves them in society to continue the CSA as long as they want! Why would that ever be acceptable in any group? I know you don't support CSA. i'm just saying there are other reasons beside church reputation....
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Post by snow on Jan 18, 2020 13:55:01 GMT -5
Wally, I'm all for forgiving, but there is no reason why we can't get these people out of society where they can harm children and still forgive them. We should not leave known predators in society to harm innocent children. The End. Turning the other cheek! Really? That mentality just leaves them in society to continue the CSA as long as they want! Why would that ever be acceptable in any group? I know you don't support CSA. i'm just saying there are other reasons beside church reputation.... Do you really think people actually believe that 'turn the other cheek thing'. Or do they use it as a way to justify them turning a blind eye? When we happen to mention on here, what about turning the other cheek, we are told that Jesus never meant that we shouldn't defend ourselves. Well, children can't defend themselves, they need us to stand up for them. So when we charge and convict those who prey on children we are just doing what christians here say, defending ourselves/them.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2020 14:02:22 GMT -5
i'm just saying there are other reasons beside church reputation.... Do you really think people actually believe that 'turn the other cheek thing'. Or do they use it as a way to justify them turning a blind eye? When we happen to mention on here, what about turning the other cheek, we are told that Jesus never meant that we shouldn't defend ourselves. Well, children can't defend themselves, they need us to stand up for them. So when we charge and convict those who prey on children we are just doing what christians here say, defending ourselves/them. yes i know quite a few folks in the truth that would do nothing if something bad as CSA happened or any other thing for that matter....i myself am not that kind of christian however....
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jan 18, 2020 14:09:16 GMT -5
Is this still small voice mentioned in the bible? 1Ki 19:12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice. That's interesting, how can a voice be still?
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Post by slowtosee on Jan 18, 2020 14:19:51 GMT -5
Good points . The “ Evil “within us humans will not be eliminated by participation in or the destruction of “institutions “ , as good or bad as they may be . Another wise philosopher, when talking about similar questions, answered it like this “. when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand: 15There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man. 16If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.” John Prine , has a way of putting it into music . Some people ain’t human. m.youtube.com/watch?v=uIWotODqidEAlvin I agree, it's not the institutions it's the people in the institutions and what they believe that's the problem. Most secular institutions that have CSA happen in their ranks will do something about it. But religions seem to have a far harder time when CSA happens in their ranks. It's such an ego thing, reputation of the religion that they will turn a blind eye to try and appear 'pure' to the world. Here is an example of just how much they try to justify CSA in their ranks. www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/feb/27/cardinal-pell-will-go-straight-to-jail-as-bail-application-is-withdrawnSaw John Prime years ago in Calgary. It was a really good concert.[/quote Cool. I’m very late to the party as only “discovered “ John prine lately , Definitely, religious institutions are VERY reluctant to disclose transgressions within their ranks . Is there any data or studies that indicate they are worse than other institutions , or ? I simply don’t know. Very possible . It is “normal” for us to want to protect an institution we are a part of , as we perceive it to be a reflection on who we are ,personally , which often is not the case , as many times , members have no clue what’s really going on in the ranks . When Sandusky was charged with his offences , one defence of an ardent supporter of his who thot it was wrong to convict him etc was “but he was good for the sport “ Sad but ... Talked to a friend in Cuba , the other day Asked him if they have capital punishment in their country . He said NO . Well , he said , yes and no . What you mean ? If a person goes to jail for csa or rape, they will be killed in prison . The prisoner , he said , will try his best to hide the real reason he is in prison , but outside sources feed The information inside . Alvin
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Post by snow on Jan 18, 2020 14:29:56 GMT -5
slowtosee I haven't looked up any stats on which institutions are more prone to keeping CSA a secret. But I feel that religions have much more to lose as far as being credible. For a secular institution any covering up wouldn't be done because they are supposed to be purer than other institutions. Religions claim to be guided by God and better than those who don't know God, so it makes sense to me that they also have to keep that aspect of it all in mind, not just the reputation as seen in a secular group. I really don't understand how they can think that way though. In my way of thinking hiding it always has the probability of it becoming known and then they would look so much worse because they tried to hide it and support the one that was guilty of CSA. I think churches and any other institution that hides CSA to keep their reputation are very short sighted as well as morally bankrupt. It's far worse in the end to not only have CSA in their ranks, but to also have hidden it and by doing that basically saying they condoned it. That's how I see it anyway.
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Post by slowtosee on Jan 18, 2020 14:33:34 GMT -5
slowtosee I haven't looked up any stats on which institutions are more prone to keeping CSA a secret. But I feel that religions have much more to lose as far as being credible. For a secular institution any covering up wouldn't be done because they are supposed to be purer than other institutions. Religions claim to be guided by God and better than those who don't know God, so it makes sense to me that they also have to keep that aspect of it all in mind, not just the reputation as seen in a secular group. I really don't understand how they can think that way though. In my way of thinking hiding it always has the probability of it becoming known and then they would look so much worse because they tried to hide it and support the one that was guilty of CSA. I think churches and any other institution that hides CSA to keep their reputation are very short sighted as well as morally bankrupt. It's far worse in the end to not only have CSA in their ranks, but to also have hidden it and by doing that basically saying they condoned it. That's how I see it anyway. Agree Very shortsighted, indeed . Some institutions , rightfully , should be held to a higher standard , because of what they “ pretend” to be . Alvin
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Post by slowtosee on Jan 18, 2020 14:37:50 GMT -5
1Ki 19:12 And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire a still small voice. That's interesting, how can a voice be still? Still- subdued or low in sound
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 18, 2020 14:52:31 GMT -5
Why does your God allow children to be sexually abused? Evil exists and produces its results. But evil will not ultimately triumph. Without evil we will be in heaven. That awaits beyond this life. That argument is the Christian's apologist's excuse to ignore the roots of evil and not attempt to do anything to stop the evil themselves.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 18, 2020 15:11:18 GMT -5
slowtosee I haven't looked up any stats on which institutions are more prone to keeping CSA a secret. But I feel that religions have much more to lose as far as being credible. For a secular institution any covering up wouldn't be done because they are supposed to be purer than other institutions. Religions claim to be guided by God and better than those who don't know God, so it makes sense to me that they also have to keep that aspect of it all in mind, not just the reputation as seen in a secular group I really don't understand how they can think that way though. In my way of thinking hiding it always has the probability of it becoming known and then they would look so much worse because they tried to hide it and support the one that was guilty of CSA. I think churches and any other institution that hides CSA to keep their reputation are very short sighted as well as morally bankrupt. It's far worse in the end to not only have CSA in their ranks, but to also have hidden it and by doing that basically saying they condoned it. That's how I see it anyway. I think that you are right, Snow. Religions do have more to lose.
By their very nature religions already hold onto ideas that can't be proved by evidence but must be held onto only by faith. That makes them more apt to not let go of any cherished belief.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2020 15:14:11 GMT -5
In our 2x2 days it was drilled into us,"Don't say anything that will harm the Truth". Hence the cover up mentality. However now they have the law to contend with, if they continue with that attitude.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2020 15:36:41 GMT -5
Evil exists and produces its results. But evil will not ultimately triumph. Without evil we will be in heaven. That awaits beyond this life. That argument is the Christian's apologist's excuse to ignore the roots of evil and not attempt to do anything to stop the evil themselves.
That's an interesting view. You have been on this board longer than me and will know the people here. Can you name the Christians here who 'ignore the roots of evil and not attempt to do anything to stop the evil themselves'?
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Post by Grant on Jan 18, 2020 15:41:54 GMT -5
slowtosee I haven't looked up any stats on which institutions are more prone to keeping CSA a secret. But I feel that religions have much more to lose as far as being credible. For a secular institution any covering up wouldn't be done because they are supposed to be purer than other institutions. Religions claim to be guided by God and better than those who don't know God, so it makes sense to me that they also have to keep that aspect of it all in mind, not just the reputation as seen in a secular group. I really don't understand how they can think that way though. In my way of thinking hiding it always has the probability of it becoming known and then they would look so much worse because they tried to hide it and support the one that was guilty of CSA. I think churches and any other institution that hides CSA to keep their reputation are very short sighted as well as morally bankrupt. It's far worse in the end to not only have CSA in their ranks, but to also have hidden it and by doing that basically saying they condoned it. That's how I see it anyway. Sexual abuse has been covered up in all walks of life. Families, work places, institutions religious or otherwise.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jan 18, 2020 16:01:53 GMT -5
That's interesting, how can a voice be still? Still- subdued or low in sound A voice is a sound which is a sound wave. Sound waves move. If it was still it would not be a sound.
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Post by nathan on Jan 18, 2020 16:08:26 GMT -5
I tell them in my Sunday morning meetings, Wed. night Bible studies in a nice way so I don't want to offend them "You don't understand." I explain more "What they don't Understand" on TMB, the 2x2s believe Jesus is the Son of God, but he is NOT God. However, The 2x2s worship Jesus on every Sunday morning meetings with singing, praises, and expressing to Him thanksgiving for the Emblems/Bread and wine and put Him on the same LEVEL as God the Father and Holy Spirit form of Worship/Adoration...
If Jesus is NOT God like unto the Father then why, they worship Him on the same level as God the Father?
Why don't you want to offend them? On here you state it's for our own good, tough love, when you aren't loving about us not understanding, so why the kid glove treatment for those in meetings? What if they never 'get it' because you aren't acting in meeting like you do here? ** In the Sunday morning I have only 2 min. to speak so, it is very difficult to explain these things in that short amount of time. Fellowship meetings are to worship The Godhead and to edify each others with words of encouragement. TMB is a better place for teaching, sharing of Words and learning from different ones. I have been posting on similar TMB for over 20 yrs, many friends and workers in many places and countries read it my posts and others on here. The workers in my field told me the friends appreciate my spirit and attitude on TMB. My overseer and some of my ex-companions know about my 2x2 website and people were coming to gospel meetings, convention and Sunday morning meetings through reading it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2020 16:17:14 GMT -5
And why should one believe any of that comment ..as with commander Thor, movie star angels that smell lovely and living inside Venus....
IMO you have thrown your credibility to the wind. Well and truely.
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Post by slowtosee on Jan 18, 2020 16:39:54 GMT -5
Still- subdued or low in sound A voice is a sound which is a sound wave. Sound waves move. If it was still it would not be a sound. Hmmmm. Well , your post really spoke to me - nope , doesn’t work as you weren’t even talking , you were typing ,no sound at this end anyhow hmmm well , yet it came through loud and clear hmmmm well , no sound so no waves , now my conscience is speaking loudly to me to just let it go and I’m not listening very well and trying to still that voice and here I am , justifying myself that I’m not arguing with you , just explaining why I’m right and you’re wrong lol Cheers Alvin Btw - I think I get your point , technically speaking , and probably should gave just spoken in a still voice . Does thinking out loud work - nah- didn't think so either- I rest my case . Let the jury decide , hopefully in a still voice or I’m toast
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Post by nathan on Jan 18, 2020 17:12:20 GMT -5
And why should one believe any of that comment ..as with commander Thor, movie star angels that smell lovely and living inside Venus.... IMO you have thrown your credibility to the wind. Well and truely. Because We read about the GOOD human looking angels in the Old and New Testament and they are STILL here on earth doing and filling God' s will on earth as ALWAYS. So, you don't know or understand what you are saying. Valiant, Donn Thor and those like them are our Guardian angels here to guide us to Jesus and protect from Satan and his demonic fallen angels souls killers/destroyers or blot our names from the book of Eternal life.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2020 17:29:56 GMT -5
Why people don’t understand what Nathan says. ( he regularly tells them this)
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Post by nathan on Jan 18, 2020 17:41:59 GMT -5
** What are you talking about, Olea? Your cartoon make no sense. Have you been drinking, again?
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