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Post by nathan on Jan 18, 2020 21:41:31 GMT -5
No, can you answer my question, please. Do you think God who destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah cities in a flash of fire from heaven. And you think God can't send fire from heaven to destroy his enemies chariots of iron? The chariots of fire would be a piece of cake for God to destroy, don't you think. Destroying chariots of iron would be a very small task compared to the much and many greater things you read of in the bible. You know I am one of the few here who also think your stories about Thor, aliens, and the hollow earth are just as believable and even less out of the world than what you read of in the bible. The bible makes the biggest supernatural claims of any story I have ever read. Aliens and hollow earth are nothing compared to creating the universe, all life and heaven and hell. Our difference is you believe all of it, and I believe none of it. I defend your right to express your beliefs, but I will push back when I don't agree. Thanks, amen to that! Feel free to express your disbelief or unbelief and I will express my belief and let us compare notes, OK. I will show my facts and you can decide for yourself. Or, tell me why you disagree. Give me another chance to show more evidences. I have plenty evidences to back it up.
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Post by maryhig on Jan 19, 2020 3:46:08 GMT -5
I believe those in heaven are helping us here on the earth. Help us how and with what? Do they answer prayer in that they assist God or do his will for us? I'm seriously asking what you believe. I believe that they are Spirits now, and they guide and help us.
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Post by maryhig on Jan 19, 2020 3:47:24 GMT -5
Can you quote me the scripture you are referring to please? ** READ Rev. 6:9-13. Thanks Nathan, I don't see the book of revelation as you do, the book of revelation is full of deeper meanings.
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Post by maryhig on Jan 19, 2020 3:51:42 GMT -5
I don't believe that they are just praying and cheering, I believe that they help us. Well, there is a reason for such a belief and it is the same reason for any other supernatural belief.
That belief, -as are other supernatural beliefs, -are stories that people tell themselves in order to attempt to understand their world and to comfort to themselves.
Humankind has told such stories since time immemorial for the same reason.Well, that's how you see it, but I don't.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2020 3:58:53 GMT -5
Help us how and with what? Do they answer prayer in that they assist God or do his will for us? I'm seriously asking what you believe. I believe that they are Spirits now, and they guide and help us. not sure i agree with this because i cannot find scripture for it. at best i believe they are observing or resting....
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Post by maryhig on Jan 19, 2020 4:21:51 GMT -5
I believe that they are Spirits now, and they guide and help us. not sure i agree with this because i cannot find scripture for it. at best i believe they are observing or resting.... What do you believe happens to us when we die? Thanks
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2020 4:28:16 GMT -5
not sure i agree with this because i cannot find scripture for it. at best i believe they are observing or resting.... What do you believe happens to us when we die? Thanks we either go to heaven or hell if heaven we may observe whats going on or we are in a state of rest if hell well nothing we do there will affect this life....
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Post by maryhig on Jan 19, 2020 4:30:23 GMT -5
What do you believe happens to us when we die? Thanks we either go to heaven or hell if heaven we may observe whats going on or we are in a state of rest if hell well nothing we do there will affect this life.... Why do you think we just observe what's going on? Or what scripture says this?
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 19, 2020 5:20:36 GMT -5
Well, there is a reason for such a belief and it is the same reason for any other supernatural belief.
That belief, -as are other supernatural beliefs, -are stories that people tell themselves in order to attempt to understand their world and to comfort to themselves.
Humankind has told such stories since time immemorial for the same reason. Well, that's how you see it, but I don't. Of course people don't understand their reasons for believing as they do. If they did,- they would start questioning why they believed such ideas and wonder why there are so many different beliefs all within our own religious history.
Maryhig, -Look at the mutual history of your & my own belief system. We had the same beginning workers, -yet you disagree with people here and they disagree with one another, -their own group!
Why?
If it was because they wanted to know the TRUTH instead of what made them feel good, -wouldn't you think that they would all come to the same agreement?
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Post by maryhig on Jan 19, 2020 5:40:18 GMT -5
Well, that's how you see it, but I don't. Of course people don't understand their reasons for believing as they do. If they did,- they would start questioning why they believed such ideas and wonder why there are so many different beliefs all within our own religious history.
Maryhig, -Look at the mutual history of your & my own belief system. We had the same beginning workers, -yet you disagree with people here and they disagree with one another, -their own group!
Why?
If it was because they wanted to know the TRUTH instead of what made them feel good, -wouldn't you think that they would all come to the same agreement?I believe in Jesus, and his teachings. No other way. And I don't believe as I do to make me feel good. I believe as I do because I know it is the truth and it goes against everything that I believed before I knew God. If I wanted to "feel good" in a worldly way I'd please my flesh. But I know that building up in this world and living to please my flesh is nothing. God lifts my heart in a way that nothing in this world can. Everything in this world perishes but God is eternal and his life is in those who live by his will and truly follow Jesus. And it doesn't just make you feel good, but God's love gives you peace in the heart, which is more precious than anything that this world can give you.
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Post by nathan on Jan 19, 2020 10:17:51 GMT -5
I believe that they are Spirits now, and they guide and help us. not sure i agree with this because i cannot find scripture for it. at best i believe they are observing or resting.... Amen, Wally... We as believers in Christ have the Holy Spirit on earth to help and guide us already. Before Jesus ascended back to heaven/Interior planet of Venus, He promised to sent the Holy Spirit to be our/believers Helper, Teacher, Guide, Protector/Comforter and Reveals Jesus Truth/gospel to us and to the world in John 16:7-16. 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me, because I go to the Father.
In 95 A.D. God revealed to John apostle what the believers are doing in heaven/Venus. Rev. 6:9-13. And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Jesus said in John 14:1-3 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
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Post by nathan on Jan 19, 2020 10:30:33 GMT -5
Well, that's how you see it, but I don't. Of course people don't understand their reasons for believing as they do. If they did,- they would start questioning why they believed such ideas and wonder why there are so many different beliefs all within our own religious history.
Maryhig, -Look at the mutual history of your & my own belief system. We had the same beginning workers, -yet you disagree with people here and they disagree with one another, -their own group!
Why?
If it was because they wanted to know the TRUTH instead of what made them feel good, -wouldn't you think that they would all come to the same agreement? We are like in the spiritual schools on earth, some are at certain spiritual age level/grades like in kindergarden, middle school, high school and University level of understanding. NOT every has the same level of understanding in spiritual things, God gives each person certain gift of understanding some have 1 talent, some 5 talents, and others 10 to strengthen the kingdom of God on earth so they too can share the goodnews to the world.
Eph. 4:8-14 Wherefore he/Jesus saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) And he/Jesus gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, to prepare them for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
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Post by Grant on Jan 19, 2020 10:42:58 GMT -5
Of course people don't understand their reasons for believing as they do. If they did,- they would start questioning why they believed such ideas and wonder why there are so many different beliefs all within our own religious history.
Maryhig, -Look at the mutual history of your & my own belief system. We had the same beginning workers, -yet you disagree with people here and they disagree with one another, -their own group!
Why?
If it was because they wanted to know the TRUTH instead of what made them feel good, -wouldn't you think that they would all come to the same agreement? We are like in the spiritual schools on earth, some are at certain spiritual age level/grades like in kindergarden, middle school, high school and University level of understanding. NOT every has the same level of understanding in spiritual things, God gives each person certain gift of understanding some have 1 talent, some 5 talents, and others 10 to strengthen the kingdom of God on earth so they too can share the goodnews to the world.
Eph. 4:8-14 Wherefore he/Jesus saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) And he/Jesus gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, to prepare them for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
So who determines who is at a higher level? Is Maryh at a higer level than you? We attend different schools of thought / belief. It is not for us to determine who'se at a higher level as each one would say they are.
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Post by nathan on Jan 19, 2020 10:53:01 GMT -5
We are like in the spiritual schools on earth, some are at certain spiritual age level/grades like in kindergarden, middle school, high school and University level of understanding. NOT every has the same level of understanding in spiritual things, God gives each person certain gift of understanding some have 1 talent, some 5 talents, and others 10 to strengthen the kingdom of God on earth so they too can share the goodnews to the world.
Eph. 4:8-14 Wherefore he/Jesus saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) And he/Jesus gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, to prepare them for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
So who determines who is at a higher level? Is Maryh at a higer level than you? We attend different schools of thought / belief. It is not for us to determine who'se at a higher level as each one would say they are. The readers can tell and be the judges by our understanding of the scriptures that God has given us individually and accordingly- like basic math, geometry, Algebra, Calculus, and much higher math in college. We can tell which levels the posters are on TMB.
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Post by Grant on Jan 19, 2020 11:02:23 GMT -5
And I'm sure that athiests would say they're at a higher level of understanding than those who continue to believe. Each person will assess their own level based on their own understanding. Each believes they are right or else they wouldn't believe it.
As for believing every wind of doctrine, that is you to a T, Nathan.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 19, 2020 11:09:20 GMT -5
Of course people don't understand their reasons for believing as they do. If they did,- they would start questioning why they believed such ideas and wonder why there are so many different beliefs all within our own religious history.
Maryhig, -Look at the mutual history of your & my own belief system. We had the same beginning workers, -yet you disagree with people here and they disagree with one another, -their own group!
Why?
If it was because they wanted to know the TRUTH instead of what made them feel good, -wouldn't you think that they would all come to the same agreement? We are like in the spiritual schools on earth, some are at certain spiritual age level/grades like in kindergarden, middle school, high school and University level of understanding. NOT every has the same level of understanding in spiritual things, God gives each person certain gift of understanding some have 1 talent, some 5 talents, and others 10 to strengthen the kingdom of God on earth so they too can share the goodnews to the world.
Eph. 4:8-14 Wherefore he/Jesus saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) And he/Jesus gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, to prepare them for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
WOW!
Now THAT, Nathan, was " worker-ese" at it very best!
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 19, 2020 11:14:37 GMT -5
So who determines who is at a higher level? Is Maryh at a higer level than you? We attend different schools of thought / belief. It is not for us to determine who'se at a higher level as each one would say they are. The readers can tell and be the judges by our understanding of the scriptures that God has given us individually and accordingly- like basic math, geometry, Algebra, Calculus, and much higher math in college. We can tell which levels the posters are on TMB.
WOW, again, Nathan!
Well, -if that be true, -everyone here is doing their job very well!
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Post by Grant on Jan 19, 2020 11:15:39 GMT -5
not sure i agree with this because i cannot find scripture for it. at best i believe they are observing or resting.... What do you believe happens to us when we die? Thanks Some people believe in soul sleep which means that we are asleep until the resurrection while others believe we receive our reward when we die. There is scripture to support both views.
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Post by maryhig on Jan 19, 2020 13:07:22 GMT -5
What do you believe happens to us when we die? Thanks Some people believe in soul sleep which means that we are asleep until the resurrection while others believe we receive our reward when we die. There is scripture to support both views. I believe that our spirit goes to God when we die. Do you know the scripture that supports soul sleep? If you do, would you mind telling me where it is thanks.
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Post by snow on Jan 19, 2020 13:22:53 GMT -5
Totally! How can the planets be hollow when they are clearly flat! ** RAM/Mountain KNOWS I do a through study and research on all kinds of subjects before I post it on here. I have multiples sources to back it up because I want signed, sealed and delivered. You haven't proved to me that the earth isn't flat. And you have not proved to me that the planets are hollow. Both are ridiculous once you know even some basic science that teaches how things work. You cannot have an orbiting sphere that is hollow or flat. It's pretty basic science actually.
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Post by snow on Jan 19, 2020 13:26:58 GMT -5
The verse you quotes shows one of the many bible contradictions. 2 Thessalonians 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie
Satan was the great deceiver in the rest of the bible, and it's impossible for god to lie. Hebrews 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
*** Because they are no longer have LOVE for truth or God so, He harden His heart like He did with Pharaoh, who REFUSED to set the children of Israel FREE so they could Worship God/Yahweh as their God instead the Pharoah Egyptians gods of Horus. God harden his heart and let them believe the LIE as the truth... Like William Irvine started/Founder all of it in 1897 and this truth of Jesus is ONLY 130 yrs old. God's Truth and Way are Eternal. You're missing the whole point. How can a God that can't lie produce a lie in them so that they don't believe? A delusion is a lie and if god created the delusion then it's untrue that God cannot lie. And don't forget the immoral aspect of taking a human that asks questions and when they don't receive answers that make sense unless they believe on faith, that he hardens their hearts and/or deludes them with lies so that they will never understand and because they never will get the ability to understand then he thinks it's okay to send them to hell forever to be tortured. And, you think this guy is a loving merciful guy? Wow!
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Post by snow on Jan 19, 2020 13:31:25 GMT -5
Yes, God is able to prevent evil.. Yes, God will prevent evil.. Because God is omnipotent.
Evil is the result of sin and sin emanates from us.
Then obviously he's not capable. You can't have it both ways. The way the world works in reality has no place for the worship of a God that doesn't do anything.
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Post by snow on Jan 19, 2020 13:33:28 GMT -5
"They/He" could just post their explanation here, but I would prefer that "They/He" spend their time doing something more practical like say; feeding the 9.1 million people who will die of starvation this year. ** It's better to Believe in God Now! We can hear the answers from God later. God is just, righteous, and he hates evil, he will deal with them all at the right time. God hates himself!! He has committed genocide if you believe the OT. He gambled with the devil over Job, if you believe the OT. He advocates for the stoning of children that disobey their parents. All of those things could be seen as evil if a human committed them. So if god hates evil, he must really hate himself.
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Post by snow on Jan 19, 2020 13:49:08 GMT -5
Judges 1:19
And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron. Come on, something is NOT right, here.... God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah cities with fire from heaven. And you think God can't send fire from heaven to destroy the enemies chariots of iron?Apparently he couldn't. You're right, something is wrong here. It's an obvious contradiction of an almighty being that is unable to conquer iron chariots.
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Post by Grant on Jan 19, 2020 14:07:45 GMT -5
Some people believe in soul sleep which means that we are asleep until the resurrection while others believe we receive our reward when we die. There is scripture to support both views. I believe that our spirit goes to God when we die. Do you know the scripture that supports soul sleep? If you do, would you mind telling me where it is thanks. One of them is what Wally et al quoted above.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 19, 2020 14:09:38 GMT -5
Of course people don't understand their reasons for believing as they do. If they did,- they would start questioning why they believed such ideas and wonder why there are so many different beliefs all within our own religious history.
Maryhig, -Look at the mutual history of your & my own belief system. We had the same beginning workers, -yet you disagree with people here and they disagree with one another, -their own group!
Why?
If it was because they wanted to know the TRUTH instead of what made them feel good, -wouldn't you think that they would all come to the same agreement? I believe in Jesus, and his teachings. No other way. And I don't believe as I do to make me feel good. I believe as I do because I know it is the truth and it goes against everything that I believed before I knew God. If I wanted to "feel good" in a worldly way I'd please my flesh. But I know that building up in this world and living to please my flesh is nothing. God lifts my heart in a way that nothing in this world can. Everything in this world perishes but God is eternal and his life is in those who live by his will and truly follow Jesus. And it doesn't just make you feel good, but God's love gives you peace in the heart, which is more precious than anything that this world can give you. Maryhig, -I realize that you sincerely believe everything that that you just said, -that you "believe in Jesus, and his teachings." Yet, you do not agree with others here on TMB as to just what those "teachings" of Jesus actually consist of.
You have filtered your own beliefs as to those "teachings" though your own upbringing from one of those same workers as people here on TMB got their own beliefs,
But then, neither can THEY here on TMB agree with one another!
Surely all of those differences should indicate that a great deal of what each person believes cannot all be the "teachings" of Jesus but rather due to different experiences of each of us.
There are reasons that people seem to need to believe I a "god" -a supernatural being that makes them feel comfortable, -one who cares about them and looks out for their welfare.
Here is a good article on why we believe in a "god."
www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-apes/201808/why-do-people-believe-in-goat
Why Do People Believe in God? | Psychology Today
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Post by Dan on Jan 19, 2020 14:12:49 GMT -5
Some people believe in soul sleep which means that we are asleep until the resurrection while others believe we receive our reward when we die. There is scripture to support both views. I believe that our spirit goes to God when we die. Do you know the scripture that supports soul sleep? If you do, would you mind telling me where it is thanks.
I agree with you, but some like the SDA hang on those verses in John 11:11-14 where Jesus said "Lazarus sleepeth", but then made it clear that he meant "Lazarus is dead".
Yes, God is able to prevent evil.. Yes, God will prevent evil.. Because God is omnipotent.
Evil is the result of sin and sin emanates from us.
Then obviously he's not capable. You can't have it both ways. The way the world works in reality has no place for the worship of a God that doesn't do anything.
Because someone has not done something doesn't mean that they can't or won't. So its not a matter of having it both ways, but rather a belief that evil will be eliminated by a God who's capable of doing so. Remember, it was us who chose the knowledge of evil, so God is just biding his time while He gives us an opportunity to experience our choices.
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Post by snow on Jan 19, 2020 14:37:21 GMT -5
Dan If God hates evil and he can't or won't do something about it there is obviously a contradiction and therefore a problem. The tree of knowledge was not just evil, it was also good. You might want to ask yourself why God didn't want humans to be able to know the difference between good and evil in the first place. He placed it there, told them not to eat from it, at the same time knowing that the humans he made would eat from it. He actually made it our nature to be curious and disregard things we are told not to do. In fact, it's makes the likelihood of us doing something even greater when we are commanded not to do something. So God is either unknowing of how we might actually react to commandments or he is incapable of doing anything about it. It's a set up the way it's worded in the OT. He fully knows what humans are like, he fully knows what they will do because he's all knowing, and yet he sets it up for them to fail. And, when they do fail he sends them to a place for eternity where they can be tortured for eternity for being disobedient. All because of a nature he gave them in the first place.
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