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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2020 0:48:51 GMT -5
it can work if your a believer, but we acknowledge that God answers in his own time, his own way, and with his own purpose. we can't always understand why its that way... Rom_8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. and there is always the saying the hottest fire brings forth the purest gold...no pun intended i am being serious here.... Oh sure, and how many times have we heard that? "God answers in his own time, his own way, and with his own purpose. we can't always understand why its that way..".
And long does it take for people to finally realize that those answers are only coming from themselves as they are giving a non-existent entity a way out?
They cover every excuse!some things bear repeating...
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 3, 2020 0:56:44 GMT -5
Oh sure, and how many times have we heard that? "God answers in his own time, his own way, and with his own purpose. we can't always understand why its that way..".
And long does it take for people to finally realize that those answers are only coming from themselves as they are giving a non-existent entity a way out?
They cover every excuse! some things bear repeating... I suppose so, -if it gives you some comfort.
Use to do it myself until I realized that it was myself who was giving "god" every excuse to NOT answer!
Finally, -I realized was the only one doing the talking! I was the only one both "asking" and "answering!"
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 3, 2020 1:16:03 GMT -5
some things bear repeating... I suppose so, -if it gives you some comfort.
Use to do it myself until I realized that it was myself that giving "god" every excuse to NOT answer!
Finally, I realized was the only one doing the talking!It works best if one is pra ying for something that is likely to happen anyway if one waits long enough.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 3, 2020 1:24:06 GMT -5
I suppose so, -if it gives you some comfort.
Use to do it myself until I realized that it was myself that giving "god" every excuse to NOT answer!
Finally, I realized was the only one doing the talking! It works best if one is praying for something that is likely to happen anyway if one waits long enough. PS: I've worn the letters off my keyboard
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Post by speak on Jan 3, 2020 3:01:03 GMT -5
God gets the blame for everything. Why shouldn't "HE?"
Christians are always giving "HIM" the credit when things go right.My word you are a funny one. Blame something that doesn't exist, I mean really you must get a grip.
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Post by ellie on Jan 3, 2020 6:18:02 GMT -5
The suffering and loss of life of non-human animals has, and continues to be, devastating. Those who are being farmed for food are also suffering and dying in massive numbers. However they were going to be killed for human consumption anyway. And in some ways their deaths by fire may be less cruel than the rounding up of these poor beings, herding them into sale yards and transport trucks and the consequent hours of transport with no food or fluid; then electric prodding them again into the abattoir killing line, watching those ahead of them being slaughtered before they meet the same fate. The fires or starvation in the ongoing drought would be worse than a trip to the abattoir. It might not be a pleasant sightseeing journey but the aim is for the animals to arrive healthy. Even handlers who may not prioritise animal welfare for the sake of the livestock realise heart attacks, bruising, etc. are not good for business.
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Post by Annan on Jan 3, 2020 12:43:29 GMT -5
What is god doing in a situation such as this? "His eye is on the sparrow...." and many people would be praying for the fires to cease with the trust that their God can and will protect them, so what do Christians recommend to prevent such disasters? What do those of you who believe feel about the efficacy of prayer when people are under such dire threat as these dangerous fires? it can work if your a believer, but we acknowledge that God answers in his own time, his own way, and with his own purpose. we can't always understand why its that way... Rom_8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. and there is always the saying the hottest fire brings forth the purest gold...no pun intended i am being serious here.... Will you be saying that when one of your loved ones is suffering terribly? My mother believed in the Christian god. She screamed in pain for two weeks before she died. Am I to believe her god had a purpose for letting her suffer? Was she being purified for the afterlife? That's a freaking load of crap! You believe it. I chose not to.
The best way to control a person is to threaten them with eternal suffering in the afterlife. It's a con job and all about control.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jan 3, 2020 14:13:48 GMT -5
it can work if your a believer, but we acknowledge that God answers in his own time, his own way, and with his own purpose. we can't always understand why its that way... Rom_8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. and there is always the saying the hottest fire brings forth the purest gold...no pun intended i am being serious here.... Will you be saying that when one of your loved ones is suffering terribly? My mother believed in the Christian god. She screamed in pain for two weeks before she died. Am I to believe her god had a purpose for letting her suffer? Was she being purified for the afterlife? That's a freaking load of crap! You believe it. I chose not to.
The best way to control a person is to threaten them with eternal suffering in the afterlife. It's a con job and all about control. I find it very odd that people who have had a reasonable education still believe the biblical nonsense. Are they willfully ignoring science? Was education wasted on them?
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Post by snow on Jan 3, 2020 16:19:41 GMT -5
What is god doing in a situation such as this? "His eye is on the sparrow...." and many people would be praying for the fires to cease with the trust that their God can and will protect them, so what do Christians recommend to prevent such disasters? What do those of you who believe feel about the efficacy of prayer when people are under such dire threat as these dangerous fires? Makes you wonder at times what good God serves. I read an account of a tribe of people who offered beer to their god. If their god didn't give them a good harvest, he got no beer. I loved that. LOL I have often wondered why people worship gods that don't really have any practical use in real life. If their god doesn't really do anything for them why pay them, in this case, worship them? It's rather like how I feel about people who get saved by humans and then say thank God when it was humans not god that saved them. I saw a cartoon the other day about this very thing. A group of men saved a man from drowning and when he got pulled onto the boat he of course thanked God. He was confronted as to why he was thanking god when it was them that saved him. His response what that god sent them to save him so therefore it was god who saved him. In the cartoon you see one of the men pushing the guy back into the water.... hmmm
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Post by snow on Jan 3, 2020 16:22:50 GMT -5
What is god doing in a situation such as this? "His eye is on the sparrow...." and many people would be praying for the fires to cease with the trust that their God can and will protect them, so what do Christians recommend to prevent such disasters? What do those of you who believe feel about the efficacy of prayer when people are under such dire threat as these dangerous fires? it can work if your a believer, but we acknowledge that God answers in his own time, his own way, and with his own purpose. we can't always understand why its that way... Rom_8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. and there is always the saying the hottest fire brings forth the purest gold...no pun intended i am being serious here.... Don't you see that as rather 'convenient'? Reminds me of Pavlov's conditioning in a way. The few times that things go right when you pray sets you up for more praying in hopes that at some point it will go right again. I often wonder at why teams both pray to win. They know that god isn't going to answer at least one teams prayers. Do they think that if they win, god favors their team?
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Post by snow on Jan 3, 2020 16:29:16 GMT -5
it can work if your a believer, but we acknowledge that God answers in his own time, his own way, and with his own purpose. we can't always understand why its that way... Rom_8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. and there is always the saying the hottest fire brings forth the purest gold...no pun intended i am being serious here.... Will you be saying that when one of your loved ones is suffering terribly? My mother believed in the Christian god. She screamed in pain for two weeks before she died. Am I to believe her god had a purpose for letting her suffer? Was she being purified for the afterlife? That's a freaking load of crap! You believe it. I chose not to.
The best way to control a person is to threaten them with eternal suffering in the afterlife. It's a con job and all about control. While I agree with you that it's appalling to believe that pain and suffering is some kind of a purification for the afterlife, I also have to wonder why your mother was left to suffer by the doctors. Unless she refused the pain relieving drugs, they should have definitely made her comfortable. So sorry that you all went through this. ps. Mother Theresa had this very mentality when nursing. She wasn't a saint in my eyes when she willfully withheld pain relief because she believed suffering was good for their souls. I heard the other day that it's come out that she helped keep the acts of a priest that was a pedophile from coming out. It has since come to light and he is being charged and in that investigation it shows that while she was alive she protected him from being found out.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 3, 2020 16:45:00 GMT -5
Why shouldn't "HE?"
Christians are always giving "HIM" the credit when things go right. My word you are a funny one. Blame something that doesn't exist, I mean really you must get a grip. Note, please, speak; -I didn't say that I "believed" -I said, "Christians are always giving "HIM" the credit when things go right. "
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Post by Annan on Jan 3, 2020 17:16:56 GMT -5
]While I agree with you that it's appalling to believe that pain and suffering is some kind of a purification for the afterlife, I also have to wonder why your mother was left to suffer by the doctors. Unless she refused the pain relieving drugs, they should have definitely made her comfortable. So sorry that you all went through this. My mother was on hospice at home. They could not give her the powerful drugs she needed. They could have given her the drugs she needed if she were in a regulated setting such as a nursing home or hospital. When they finally gave her drugs to relax her, she died less than an hour later. The hospice nurse said pain keeps us alive as it keeps our brain engaged. The minute she could relax, she let go. She had bone cancer.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2020 19:09:47 GMT -5
it can work if your a believer, but we acknowledge that God answers in his own time, his own way, and with his own purpose. we can't always understand why its that way... Rom_8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. and there is always the saying the hottest fire brings forth the purest gold...no pun intended i am being serious here.... Will you be saying that when one of your loved ones is suffering terribly? My mother believed in the Christian god. She screamed in pain for two weeks before she died. Am I to believe her god had a purpose for letting her suffer? Was she being purified for the afterlife? That's a freaking load of crap! You believe it. I chose not to.
The best way to control a person is to threaten them with eternal suffering in the afterlife. It's a con job and all about control. your not the only one who has lost someone to a disease or accident. you got to wonder though YOUR way of unbelief all you are left with is anguish as evidenced by your post whereas my self i am at peace with all those who have died that i knew...
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 3, 2020 19:21:21 GMT -5
]While I agree with you that it's appalling to believe that pain and suffering is some kind of a purification for the afterlife, I also have to wonder why your mother was left to suffer by the doctors. Unless she refused the pain relieving drugs, they should have definitely made her comfortable. So sorry that you all went through this. My mother was on hospice at home. They could not give her the powerful drugs she needed. They could have given her the drugs she needed if she were in a regulated setting such as a nursing home or hospital. When they finally gave her drugs to relax her, she died less than an hour later. The hospice nurse said pain keeps us alive as it keeps our brain engaged. The minute she could relax, she let go. She had bone cancer. This must have been in the dark ages! My husband died 21 years ago with metastatic bone cancer and he was given a morphine pump. That’s a horrendous thing your mom went through and it had nothing to do with God.
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Post by joanna on Jan 3, 2020 19:30:14 GMT -5
Annan . Hospice and palliative care have been hijacked by the religious - staff who believe that god gives life and only he can decide when to 'take this life back'. Thus these staff are tentative about prescribing adequate doses of pain and other symptom relief as they do not want to be held responsible for ending a life. This despite the fact that the patient is dying and good symptom management may shorten the patient's life but enable a "good death". Unfortunately there is no legitimate reason for staff having withheld the medications your mother needed to relieve her suffering. Religious indoctrination inflicts infinite suffering. 5. REASONS FOR OPPOSITION TO ASSISTED DYING AMONG PALLIATIVE CARE PRACTITIONERS
5(i) Palliative care advocates have found a particular difficulty in the care of persons who ask for a deliberate and quick release from their situation of protracted dying. 5(ii) The reasons for that difficulty may be found firstly in the Christian traditions of Western society and their emphasis on the sanctity of life as a God-given gift, the ending of which divine providence alone should determine. The medieval monastic origins of the term "hospice", still used for aspects of palliative care programmes, support that tradition, as does the early work of the religious orders such as the Sisters of Charity, or the Little Company of Mary in the 19th century. More recently it has been fostered by the charismatic Christian leadership that has been so important in the establishment of palliative care in the British Isles and that has taught a consistent opposition to assisted dying, something that has become part of the usual advocacy by Palliative Care practitioners throughout the world. Memorandum by Prof. Ian Maddocks
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Post by joanna on Jan 3, 2020 19:31:05 GMT -5
ellieThe non-human animal exploiting industries thrive on duping the potentially empathetic consumer by lying about the treatment of these sentient beings. Please take a look at the following link: Exposing abattoirs and sufferingConsider the exposure of the suffering of sheep on live export vessels - many die a shocking death or experience prolonged agony from injury etc prior to reaching shore.
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Post by Roselyn T on Jan 3, 2020 19:49:01 GMT -5
What is god doing in a situation such as this? "His eye is on the sparrow...." and many people would be praying for the fires to cease with the trust that their God can and will protect them, so what do Christians recommend to prevent such disasters? What do those of you who believe feel about the efficacy of prayer when people are under such dire threat as these dangerous fires? it can work if your a believer, but we acknowledge that God answers in his own time, his own way, and with his own purpose. we can't always understand why its that way... Rom_8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. and there is always the saying the hottest fire brings forth the purest gold...no pun intended i am being serious here.... Your "pun" is not appropriate at this time @wally !! In fact I think it is disgusting!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2020 20:38:42 GMT -5
It is a very tragic situation in southern NSW and eastern Victoria at the moment. Many lives are being lost, and the devastation is immense. I can't help thinking about Howitis, and how she is coping in such a Hell hole. There is so much loss of communication, power gone, infrastructure destroyed. I heard this morning on a news report that they estimate half a billion animals have lost their lives. It is going to be a long hard road for so many people into the future. Let us hope the Commonwealth Government do better than they have to date.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jan 3, 2020 21:18:08 GMT -5
it can work if your a believer, but we acknowledge that God answers in his own time, his own way, and with his own purpose. we can't always understand why its that way... Rom_8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. and there is always the saying the hottest fire brings forth the purest gold...no pun intended i am being serious here.... Your "pun" is not appropriate at this time @wally !! In fact I think it is disgusting! The comment puts him in the same league as Israel Folau and similar tossers.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2020 21:24:20 GMT -5
it can work if your a believer, but we acknowledge that God answers in his own time, his own way, and with his own purpose. we can't always understand why its that way... Rom_8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. and there is always the saying the hottest fire brings forth the purest gold...no pun intended i am being serious here.... Your "pun" is not appropriate at this time @wally !! In fact I think it is disgusting! i said "no pun intended" dimbulb get your head screwed on straight...oh right English isn't your forte...
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Post by Annan on Jan 3, 2020 22:13:41 GMT -5
Will you be saying that when one of your loved ones is suffering terribly? My mother believed in the Christian god. She screamed in pain for two weeks before she died. Am I to believe her god had a purpose for letting her suffer? Was she being purified for the afterlife? That's a freaking load of crap! You believe it. I chose not to.
The best way to control a person is to threaten them with eternal suffering in the afterlife. It's a con job and all about control. your not the only one who has lost someone to a disease or accident. you got to wonder though YOUR way of unbelief all you are left with is anguish as evidenced by your post whereas my self i am at peace with all those who have died that i knew... You are wrong, sir. I'm at peace that she passed from her suffering. I am at peace that we repaired our relationship over the years and loved each other deeply.
What I am not at peace with is that she suffered terribly. At times life makes no sense. I fail to see how a belief in a god who would allow such suffering would make me feel better about her suffering. Explain that, please.
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Post by Annan on Jan 3, 2020 22:18:00 GMT -5
My mother was on hospice at home. They could not give her the powerful drugs she needed. They could have given her the drugs she needed if she were in a regulated setting such as a nursing home or hospital. When they finally gave her drugs to relax her, she died less than an hour later. The hospice nurse said pain keeps us alive as it keeps our brain engaged. The minute she could relax, she let go. She had bone cancer. This must have been in the dark ages! My husband died 21 years ago with metastatic bone cancer and he was given a morphine pump. That’s a horrendous thing your mom went through and it had nothing to do with God. Why did it not have anything to do with God? He allowed it, didn't he? My mother died 14 months ago. Hospice at home does not allow high doses of morphine or other pain killers as the hospice nurse cannot be present 24/7 and they are lot allowed to hand such powerful drugs to a lay person to administer. My mother chose to die at home. She did not know she would be in so much pain.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 3, 2020 22:23:42 GMT -5
This must have been in the dark ages! My husband died 21 years ago with metastatic bone cancer and he was given a morphine pump. That’s a horrendous thing your mom went through and it had nothing to do with God. Why did it not have anything to do with God? He allowed it, didn't he? My mother died 14 months ago. Hospice at home does not allow high doses of morphine or other pain killers as the hospice nurse cannot be present 24/7 and they are lot allowed to hand such powerful drugs to a lay person to administer. My mother chose to die at home. She did not know she would be in so much pain. Course the difference may be Im an RN, so the dr ordered to let me give it. Though he was on a pump giving a set dose every 15 minutes. The last day they set it to where I could give him an additional dose every 7 minutes as needed. We supplemented his morphine with rectal aspirin for fever/pain every 4 hours and when he begin to fling his arms we’d rub him down with Deep Heet which was his favorite arthritis rub and surprisingly that calmed him about as much as the morphine. I’m surprised someone didn’t try to talk her into going to the hospital.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 3, 2020 22:35:07 GMT -5
This must have been in the dark ages! My husband died 21 years ago with metastatic bone cancer and he was given a morphine pump. That’s a horrendous thing your mom went through and it had nothing to do with God. Why did it not have anything to do with God? He allowed it, didn't he? My mother died 14 months ago. Hospice at home does not allow high doses of morphine or other pain killers as the hospice nurse cannot be present 24/7 and they are lot allowed to hand such powerful drugs to a lay person to administer. My mother chose to die at home. She did not know she would be in so much pain. Annan, there is a process the body has to go through to die completely. This old human nature does not want to turn loose of the clay and will fight to live. It’s the same thing that rates it’s head in times of sudden injury or illness that helps people pull through and live. People want to brag about people having that strength to bear up to great physical tribulation and live until it’s time to die. Dying is a painful process for anyone that lives very long going through the process, regardless of the reasons for death. The circulation has to shut down and that takes time and as it does it becomes more and more painful. If the heart and lungs are still strong then it’s a lot harder and longer. Fluid and food intake assist in the prolonging the process. Old Indians had it right when they got too old to be of much help or joy, they went off to a cave somewhere without water or food. They built a fire and meditated or chanted until they were too weak to do so. Usually die in 3-4 days without water. But to blame God for the process of dying does no one any good but builds a hatred up in you. You may know someone that the very reason dying is lengthy is the reason they survived some horrible incident/accident. It’s a war to die. And there’s no discharge from that war.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 3, 2020 22:39:03 GMT -5
It is a very tragic situation in southern NSW and eastern Victoria at the moment. Many lives are being lost, and the devastation is immense. I can't help thinking about Howitis, and how she is coping in such a Hell hole. There is so much loss of communication, power gone, infrastructure destroyed. I heard this morning on a news report that they estimate half a billion animals have lost their lives. It is going to be a long hard road for so many people into the future. Let us hope the Commonwealth Government do better than they have to date. This is truly heart wrenching! I’m praying Howitis is okay! She and other firies are so important right now! May their strength and health hold up. I noted there was some kind of climate changes at fault. But that doesn’t solve the problems now for sure!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2020 0:33:01 GMT -5
your not the only one who has lost someone to a disease or accident. you got to wonder though YOUR way of unbelief all you are left with is anguish as evidenced by your post whereas my self i am at peace with all those who have died that i knew... You are wrong, sir. I'm at peace that she passed from her suffering. I am at peace that we prepared our relationship over the years and loved each other deeply.
What I am not at peace with is that she suffered terribly. At times life makes no sense. I fail to see how a belief in a god who would allow such suffering would make me feel better about her suffering. Explain that, please.easy...you put your trust in God that everything is going according to his plan whether or not you understand it once you do that a peace sets in it happens for MILLIONS of people across the globe...God is Great recently had an uncle drive his tractor into a river and got caught up in the chains he was dragging and drowned a horrible way to go...but i am totally at peace with it(even though he was a very mean man) and he wasn't even a christian as far as i know...
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Post by joanna on Jan 4, 2020 1:21:04 GMT -5
Annan . I do not want to write anything which may cause you distress Annan but for the sake of others you may know and those reading this, the information you were apparently given by hospice nurse that 'hospice at home does not allow high doses of morphine or other pain killers' is absolutely false. There is no limit to the dose of morphine and other opioids required to relieve pain in the dying person. Other types of analgesia may be required for nerve pain and colic etc Most people across the world want to die in their own home and providing optimal symptom control is essential to relieve suffering and allow people to have a 'good death'. A good death is possible and involves pro-active suppression of the symptoms associated with many terminal diseases: pain - both physical and psychological; nausea and vomiting; agitation; restlessness etc There is a smorgasbord of medications available to control all these symptoms. I am really sorry to hear of your mother's experience and if it was possible to report this to an authority, you may choose to do so Annan. There is No excuse for what she experienced and the distress it caused her and yourself. The warped mind of some people who have been indoctrinated by a religious belief can potentially undermine palliative care. Teresa (known as mother Teresa)- is a prime example of how a warped mind caused so many to needlessly suffer.
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