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Post by nathan on Dec 1, 2019 0:41:30 GMT -5
I have shared these information for the past 5 yrs with the brothers and sisters workers in the meetings. I just showing what the early workers believed and taught! they believed in the Trinity and Jesus is God... The Sunday morning worship meeting is for the workers and the friends come together to WORSHIP the Trinity/Triune God= Father, Christ/Jesus and Holy Spirit.
We read the same type worship of the TRINITY Sunday morning is revealed in Rev. chapters 4-5. God the Father sits on His throne, Christ/Jesus the Lamb of God standing/sitting in the middle (the emblems is in the center of the living room) and He is circle, or surrounded by 24 elders, the millions angels of God, and great multitude of believers came from many nations through the centuries, bowing down their heads to worship the LAMB of God/Christ Jesus and God the Father! They sing hymns of adoration to Jesus the Lamb of God who died for their sins.
nathan re-read what I wrote.... Start telling those in your meeting that they are attending "Sunday Trinity Worship meetings" then get back to us with their response !! Or give me the name of one Worker who would agree with what you have said !!! I told you I did...~~ an ex-2x2 wrote in 8/3/2017 I have an e-mail from Barb Hofer/Oregon worker when I was writing back and forth to her and she put in writing that yes what I was revealed on my own through the holy spirit she also agrees with on the topic of who God is. One God who consists of 3 individual entities the father, the son, the holy spirit. She told me many friends don't get it but to not stop worshiping in spirit and in truth. I couldn't sit around the emblems with a people who worship Jesus, yet claim that he isn't God and we know that our Bible tells us to only worship one God so it contradicted itself when everyone was worshiping Jesus. They didn't get it and they didn't put Jesus in his fullness. meeting goers claim that it's the same everywhere. Doctrine is not sound when they're not even on the same page though and it was so saddening to me.
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Post by snow on Dec 1, 2019 13:50:53 GMT -5
Weren't Mary and Martha relatives. Of course he ate and no doubt stayed with people he met along the way but this was spontaneous and not arranged weeks, months and years ahead like the workers accommodation is. Guaranteed free food, lodging and car they are. No, Jesus traveled freely around and was not tied tp the role of an overseer like the workers are having no where to lay his head. It's fine to stay with people but don't claim like the workers do that like Jesus they have no where to lay there head. A poor me tactic which workers often used at many conventions I attended growing up. They preached one thing but practiced another. I have never seen a worker with a money bag like Judas had. They boast that they don't have collections. You don't know how much money Judas collected. And where did Mary and Martha get this so called money from they gave to Jesus? Women would not have had an independent means of income back then. We have heard the friends complaints about workers, who come to their home for supper or stay overnights un-announced! So, when I was in the work, we tried to give the friends heads up a week and wonder if they had any plans? If they do then it can be another time. That is good manner, to call ahead and make arraignment, with the friends ahead of time, wouldn't you say?
Some of the friends homes, they say COME! and STAY at anytime you want. No, need calling ahead of time.
The women who followed Jesus were wealthy! Matthew 27:55-56 Many women were there, watching from a distance. They had followed Jesus from Galilee to care for his needs. Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of Zebedee's sons.
Luke 8:1-3 After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out; Joanna the wife of Chuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.
~~ We read about the rich men who became Jesus followers such as Zacheus, Nicodimus, and Josphus of Armathius and so on.
I'm curious Nathan. Did the friends ever say no because they had other plans? If they did, how often did it happen to you and your companion when you were in the work.
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Post by snow on Dec 1, 2019 14:07:09 GMT -5
Asking for some food and a place to stay? This is against everything the workers have preached against. Again your version of the 2x2 church. The rest you need to take your 2x2 filters off and read what the Bible is actually saying, not your version of it, nor your version of the workers ministry. The workers don't OPENLY ask some food from the friends and a room to sleep for a few nights... This is how the workers do it most of the time, Hi John and Mary... Our schedule next week is open can we come and stay with your folks for couple nights and that is including dinner with you folks! Are you folks free for next week?
How can you say that's not 'openly asking'? You asked 'can we come and stay with you folks for a couple of nights and that is including dinner with you'. That's called asking in my world.
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Post by snow on Dec 1, 2019 14:10:16 GMT -5
Weren't Mary and Martha relatives. Of course he ate and no doubt stayed with people he met along the way but this was spontaneous and not arranged weeks, months and years ahead like the workers accommodation is. Guaranteed free food, lodging and car they are. They don't trust God for anything, they trust the overseers to provide it. No, Jesus traveled freely around and was not tied tp the role of an overseer like the workers are having no where to lay his head. It's fine to stay with people but don't claim like the workers do that like Jesus they have no where to lay there head. A poor me tactic which workers often used at many conventions I attended growing up. They preached one thing but practiced another. I have never seen a worker with a money bag like Judas had. They boast that they don't have collections. You don't know how much money Judas collected. And where did Mary and Martha get this so called money from they gave to Jesus? Women would not have had an independent means of income back then. Many people when they travel around have people invite them to stay as people invited Jesus. The workers dont depend on people they meet on the way to invite them home for the night, their accommodation is pre arranged like yours or mine is when we travel around. Enuf, I am no longer 2x2 either, -but I do not like to hear people bashing the workers as if all the workers were deceitful and NOT practicing what they preached'
My father was a worker before he married my mother. I remember hearing some of the hardships that he, as well as other workers went through in those days.
Eating a cold supper of only some bread and not knowing where their next food would come from. Sleeping in cold school houses. Walking wherever you had to go.
But they sincerely believed in what they were doing, "bringing the gospel of the Jesus" to the world just as Jesus had told his followers to do.
It is one thing for us to now realize the deceit that was propagated by the founders of the 2x2's ' -but remember, most of those younger workers were just as deceived as the rest of us. Yes thanks for the reminder. I agree. The workers that came to my grandfather's ranch in 1915 would have been hard pressed to survive a cold Saskatchewan winter without someone taking them in. The town near them wasn't very big. It might have had a hotel with a bar and some rooms over the bar, but unless they stayed with a family, they'd have been either in the hotel or out in the cold. The cold wasn't an option in -40 below that it sometimes gets in the Prairies.
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Post by snow on Dec 1, 2019 14:14:24 GMT -5
nathan re-read what I wrote.... Start telling those in your meeting that they are attending "Sunday Trinity Worship meetings" then get back to us with their response !! Or give me the name of one Worker who would agree with what you have said !!! I told you I did...~~ an ex-2x2 wrote in 8/3/2017 I have an e-mail from Barb Hofer/Oregon worker when I was writing back and forth to her and she put in writing that yes what I was revealed on my own through the holy spirit she also agrees with on the topic of who God is. One God who consists of 3 individual entities the father, the son, the holy spirit. She told me many friends don't get it but to not stop worshiping in spirit and in truth. I couldn't sit around the emblems with a people who worship Jesus, yet claim that he isn't God and we know that our Bible tells us to only worship one God so it contradicted itself when everyone was worshiping Jesus. They didn't get it and they didn't put Jesus in his fullness. meeting goers claim that it's the same everywhere. Doctrine is not sound when they're not even on the same page though and it was so saddening to me. Well I hate to break this to you, but that's exactly what you are doing when you sit with the friends in Sunday morning meeting. They see Jesus as a perfect, divine older brother not a God. There may be one or two in the meeting that believe in the Trinity but the majority do not from what I've seen. And, as I said before, my grandfather professed in 1915 when the workers spent the winter on his ranch and he never thought of Jesus as God. That's pretty early in the groups formation and yet he never was taught about the Trinity by the workers. One was Willie Jaimison but I don't remember who the other one was.
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Post by reborn on Dec 1, 2019 15:16:17 GMT -5
It really takes a seeking out on ones own of God to receive a revelation of who his is. Some do not receive this, as they do not take it as a personal responsibility to do so. As one of our hymns says- Speak ALL the message, for I would be free-ALL of his beauty cause me to see. How wonderful that God will do this for us.
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Post by nathan on Dec 1, 2019 16:10:23 GMT -5
We have heard the friends complaints about workers, who come to their home for supper or stay overnights un-announced! So, when I was in the work, we tried to give the friends heads up a week and wonder if they had any plans? If they do then it can be another time. That is good manner, to call ahead and make arraignment, with the friends ahead of time, wouldn't you say?
Some of the friends homes, they say COME! and STAY at anytime you want. No, need calling ahead of time.
The women who followed Jesus were wealthy! Matthew 27:55-56 Many women were there, watching from a distance. They had followed Jesus from Galilee to care for his needs. Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of Zebedee's sons.
Luke 8:1-3 After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out; Joanna the wife of Chuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.
~~ We read about the rich men who became Jesus followers such as Zacheus, Nicodimus, and Josphus of Armathius and so on.
I'm curious Nathan. Did the friends ever say no because they had other plans? If they did, how often did it happen to you and your companion when you were in the work. ** Yes, it happened sometimes but not very often. The friends said they had some thing going on already and asked if they could do it next week And we said that was fine with us.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 1, 2019 16:18:10 GMT -5
nathan can you give me the name of one Worker or friend who calls the Sunday Fellowship Meeting, "Sunday Trinity Worship Meeting" ? Just one !!! This is another example of how you "add to" things to try and prove you are right !! I bet there is not even one person on TMB who has ever heard Sunday Meeting called this !!! How absurd. I have never in my lifetime heard of a Sunday Trinity Worship Meeting. We should call Nathan's church the "Trinity Worship Interplanetary Tangent". TWIT for short.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 1, 2019 16:29:03 GMT -5
The workers don't OPENLY ask some food from the friends and a room to sleep for a few nights... This is how the workers do it most of the time, Hi John and Mary... Our schedule next week is open can we come and stay with your folks for couple nights and that is including dinner with you folks! Are you folks free for next week?
How can you say that's not 'openly asking'? You asked 'can we come and stay with you folks for a couple of nights and that is including dinner with you'. That's called asking in my world. According to the Shultz Edict, the acceptable response would be "Yes".
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Post by snow on Dec 1, 2019 18:42:30 GMT -5
I'm curious Nathan. Did the friends ever say no because they had other plans? If they did, how often did it happen to you and your companion when you were in the work. ** Yes, it happened sometimes but not very often. The friends said they had some thing going on already and asked if they could do it next week And we said that was fine with us. Thanks Nathan. I wasn't privy to what my parents did all the time of course, but it seemed to me that when the workers suggested coming for dinner or overnight we usually accommodated them. So I wondered just how often it happened that people said no and asked for a different time.
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Post by snow on Dec 1, 2019 18:45:54 GMT -5
How can you say that's not 'openly asking'? You asked 'can we come and stay with you folks for a couple of nights and that is including dinner with you'. That's called asking in my world. According to the Shultz Edict, the acceptable response would be "Yes". Well that's pretty clear isn't it. You say no and you aren't going to be in good standing and may even lose the meeting in your home if you have one. I think Dale missed his calling. He should have been a dictator of a small country. Isn't he that messed things up so badly in Viet Nam too?
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 1, 2019 18:50:51 GMT -5
According to the Shultz Edict, the acceptable response would be "Yes". Well that's pretty clear isn't it. You say no and you aren't going to be in good standing and may even lose the meeting in your home if you have one. I think Dale missed his calling. He should have been a dictator of a small country. Isn't he that messed things up so badly in Viet Nam too? Yes. He apparently oversees Vietnam.
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Post by snow on Dec 1, 2019 19:04:11 GMT -5
Well that's pretty clear isn't it. You say no and you aren't going to be in good standing and may even lose the meeting in your home if you have one. I think Dale missed his calling. He should have been a dictator of a small country. Isn't he that messed things up so badly in Viet Nam too? Yes. He apparently oversees Vietnam.
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Post by nathan on Dec 1, 2019 22:02:37 GMT -5
I told you I did...~~ an ex-2x2 wrote in 8/3/2017 I have an e-mail from Barb Hofer/Oregon worker when I was writing back and forth to her and she put in writing that yes what I was revealed on my own through the holy spirit she also agrees with on the topic of who God is. One God who consists of 3 individual entities the father, the son, the holy spirit. She told me many friends don't get it but to not stop worshiping in spirit and in truth. I couldn't sit around the emblems with a people who worship Jesus, yet claim that he isn't God and we know that our Bible tells us to only worship one God so it contradicted itself when everyone was worshiping Jesus. They didn't get it and they didn't put Jesus in his fullness. meeting goers claim that it's the same everywhere. Doctrine is not sound when they're not even on the same page though and it was so saddening to me. Well I hate to break this to you, but that's exactly what you are doing when you sit with the friends in Sunday morning meeting. They see Jesus as a perfect, divine older brother not a God. There may be one or two in the meeting that believe in the Trinity but the majority do not from what I've seen. And, as I said before, my grandfather professed in 1915 when the workers spent the winter on his ranch and he never thought of Jesus as God. That's pretty early in the groups formation and yet he never was taught about the Trinity by the workers. One was Willie Jaimison but I don't remember who the other one was. If Jesus is our ONLY elder brother then WHY? are the 2x2s PRAY to Him and PUT him on the same Level as God the Father?
Why, do the 2x2 singing hymns of praises and adoration to Jesus if He is NOT God? Only God can forgive sin, then how can Jesus forgive our sins if he is only divine and NOT God?
Why don't the 2x2 praise and bow their heads and Pray to Mary the Mother of Jesus? She is his mother you know. Well, they don't worship Mary the mother of Jesus because is human but Christ is God who lived in a human body Jesus. Jesus/Yashua name Emmanuel means God is with us!
In the 2x2 Sunday morning worship gathering ONLY 3 Divine/God beings are to be worshipped God the Father, Christ/Jesus our Redeemer/Savior, and Holy Spirit= Godhead. There is NO human person to be mentioned or worshipped in the Sunday morning, right?
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Post by nathan on Dec 1, 2019 22:14:18 GMT -5
Yes. He apparently oversees Vietnam. Dale S. is NO longer overseer in Vietnam. They have a new overseer in Vietnam. He is an American NOT a Canadian. Dale S. is no longer the overseer in Oregon either. He is going back to his homeland in SK Canada this year. Thanks! Dale for MANY good years you spent in helping many of the Americans workers out of the jam in USA as the overseer. I first met Dale S. in SK, Canada convention my 1st year in the work 1986.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 1, 2019 22:20:45 GMT -5
Dale S. is NO longer overseer in Vietnam. They have a new overseer in Vietnam. He is an American NOT a Canadian. Dale S. is no longer the overseer in Oregon either. He is going back to his homeland in SK Canada this year. Thanks! Dale for MANY good years you spent in helping many of the Americans workers out of the jam in USA as the overseer. I first met Dale S. in SK, Canada convention my 1st year in the work 1986.
So who is the overseer in Vietnam now?
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Post by openingact34 on Dec 1, 2019 22:35:07 GMT -5
How can you say that's not 'openly asking'? You asked 'can we come and stay with you folks for a couple of nights and that is including dinner with you'. That's called asking in my world. According to the Shultz Edict, the acceptable response would be "Yes". There is a reason why it is called an open home.
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Post by nathan on Dec 1, 2019 22:45:41 GMT -5
Dale S. is NO longer overseer in Vietnam. They have a new overseer in Vietnam. He is an American NOT a Canadian. Dale S. is no longer the overseer in Oregon either. He is going back to his homeland in SK Canada this year. Thanks! Dale for MANY good years you spent in helping many of the Americans workers out of the jam in USA as the overseer. I first met Dale S. in SK, Canada convention my 1st year in the work 1986.
So who is the overseer in Vietnam now? I better not tell you his name, Vietnam is a Communist country. The Canadians are no longer in charge of the work in Vietnam.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 1, 2019 22:49:31 GMT -5
According to the Shultz Edict, the acceptable response would be "Yes". There is a reason why it is called an open home. I understand that. As long as they remember to behave themselves when they're visiting.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 1, 2019 22:51:53 GMT -5
So who is the overseer in Vietnam now? I better not say his name, Vietnam is a Communist country. The Canadians are no longer in charge of the work in Vietnam.What difference. I'll find out when I get there anyway.
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Post by nathan on Dec 1, 2019 23:03:00 GMT -5
I better not say his name, Vietnam is a Communist country. The Canadians are no longer in charge of the work in Vietnam. What difference. I'll find out when I get there anyway. It is better if you do that when you get over there.
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Post by BobWilliston on Dec 1, 2019 23:12:55 GMT -5
What difference. I'll find out when I get there anyway. It is better if you do that when you get over there.I don't have to wait until I get there. I'll just ask my friend over there to tell me.
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Post by Roselyn T on Dec 1, 2019 23:38:59 GMT -5
nathan can you give me the name of one Worker or friend who calls the Sunday Fellowship Meeting, "Sunday Trinity Worship Meeting" ? Just one !!! This is another example of how you "add to" things to try and prove you are right !! I bet there is not even one person on TMB who has ever heard Sunday Meeting called this !!! How absurd. I have never in my lifetime heard of a Sunday Trinity Worship Meeting. We should call Nathan's church the "Trinity Worship Interplanetary Tangent". TWIT for short. 😜😜😳😃😃😜
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Post by snow on Dec 2, 2019 13:53:41 GMT -5
Well I hate to break this to you, but that's exactly what you are doing when you sit with the friends in Sunday morning meeting. They see Jesus as a perfect, divine older brother not a God. There may be one or two in the meeting that believe in the Trinity but the majority do not from what I've seen. And, as I said before, my grandfather professed in 1915 when the workers spent the winter on his ranch and he never thought of Jesus as God. That's pretty early in the groups formation and yet he never was taught about the Trinity by the workers. One was Willie Jaimison but I don't remember who the other one was. If Jesus is our ONLY elder brother then WHY? are the 2x2s PRAY to Him and PUT him on the same Level as God the Father?
Why, do the 2x2 singing hymns of praises and adoration to Jesus if He is NOT God? Only God can forgive sin, then how can Jesus forgive our sins if he is only divine and NOT God?
Why don't the 2x2 praise and bow their heads and Pray to Mary the Mother of Jesus? She is his mother you know. Well, they don't worship Mary the mother of Jesus because is human but Christ is God who lived in a human body Jesus. Jesus/Yashua name Emmanuel means God is with us!
In the 2x2 Sunday morning worship gathering ONLY 3 Divine/God beings are to be worshipped God the Father, Christ/Jesus our Redeemer/Savior, and Holy Spirit= Godhead. There is NO human person to be mentioned or worshipped in the Sunday morning, right?
Well if Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit are all God, then I think the story of God getting Mary pregnant with Jesus is a rather interesting story, don't you? It makes more sense that God wanted to show mankind that a man could be perfect and therefore divine. It's a better role model than a God being perfect and it makes his crucifixion a whole lot more of a sacrifice than a God being sacrificed. Lords were Kings and even prophets in the bible. Since Jesus was the offspring in the line of David he therefore could be called Lord as his status for Kingship was relevant.
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