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Post by Get off of TMB on Nov 30, 2019 9:37:21 GMT -5
I think about some workers encouraging young people to offer for The Work. What if every saint offered for the work? Where would they stay? There may soon be a shortage of homes for the workers to lodge in the future with declining birth rates, internet information about the truth etc . On many lists, divided homes, young people in apartments and elderly people in assisted living limits the number of homes as it is.
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Post by openingact34 on Nov 30, 2019 10:21:46 GMT -5
I think about some workers encouraging young people to offer for The Work. What if every saint offered for the work? Where would they stay? There may soon be a shortage of homes for the workers to lodge in the future with declining birth rates, internet information about the truth etc . On many lists, divided homes, young people in apartments and elderly people in assisted living limits the number of homes as it is. Jesus didn't believe in planning for practical considerations, so lack of places to stay would not matter. "Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matthew 6
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2019 15:00:48 GMT -5
I think about some workers encouraging young people to offer for The Work. What if every saint offered for the work? Where would they stay? There may soon be a shortage of homes for the workers to lodge in the future with declining birth rates, internet information about the truth etc . On many lists, divided homes, young people in apartments and elderly people in assisted living limits the number of homes as it is. even Jesus knew that not everyone would offer for the work....
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2019 16:47:28 GMT -5
When WI started the 2x2s it was going to be a one tier system. A few smart Workers worked out that a two tier system is more practical. The only mistake they made was having Workers live in the homes of laity. Seperate accommodation should have been provided. Most main stream Churches do this and it works fine. The only way a one tier system works is keep them in a monastery,don't let them out.
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Post by nathan on Nov 30, 2019 19:54:24 GMT -5
I think about some workers encouraging young people to offer for The Work. What if every saint offered for the work? Where would they stay? There may soon be a shortage of homes for the workers to lodge in the future with declining birth rates, internet information about the truth etc . On many lists, divided homes, young people in apartments and elderly people in assisted living limits the number of homes as it is. even Jesus knew that not everyone would offer for the work.... *** According to Paul epistle 1 Cor. There were about 600 followers of Jesus after his death. While he was alive he appointed 12,70 as his apostles and he appointed Paul apostle to the Gentiles. NOT all followers of Jesus became apostles/workers, but only a few were called to be preachers of the gospel full time. The man of legion wanted to follow Jesus as one of his apostles but he told him No, you go back to your home and be good witness to them and tell the priests what God has done for you. God has set up TWO TIERS or CALLINGS! The saints/friends to provide homes for the apostles to stay, foods for them to eat, and money for their journey. The church elders homes use for the Sunday Trinity worship meetings. This way it helps the apostles/workers to dedicate their whole life in God's service, preaching and pastors the land and sheep.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 30, 2019 20:15:25 GMT -5
even Jesus knew that not everyone would offer for the work.... *** According to Paul epistle 1 Cor. There were about 600 followers of Jesus after his death. While he was alive he appointed 12,70 as his apostles and he appointed Paul apostle to the Gentiles. NOT all followers of Jesus became apostles/workers, but only a few were called to be preachers of the gospel full time. The man of legion wanted to follow Jesus as one of his apostles but he told him No, you go back to your home and be good witness to them and tell the priests what God has done for you. God has set up TWO TIERS or CALLINGS! The saints/friends to provide homes for the apostles to stay, foods for them to eat, and money for their journey. The church elders homes use for the Sunday Trinity worship meetings. This way it helps the apostles/workers to dedicate their whole life in God's service, preaching and pastors the land and sheep. But Jesus said he had no where to lay his head, so he didn’t depend on his convert/followers for sustenance. He apparently could go seaside and ask a fish to hop into the pan to cook for the Apostles saw him on the bank with a fish over the fire.
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Post by nathan on Nov 30, 2019 20:41:49 GMT -5
*** According to Paul epistle 1 Cor. There were about 600 followers of Jesus after his death. While he was alive he appointed 12,70 as his apostles and he appointed Paul apostle to the Gentiles. NOT all followers of Jesus became apostles/workers, but only a few were called to be preachers of the gospel full time. The man of legion wanted to follow Jesus as one of his apostles but he told him No, you go back to your home and be good witness to them and tell the priests what God has done for you. God has set up TWO TIERS or CALLINGS! The saints/friends to provide homes for the apostles to stay, foods for them to eat, and money for their journey. The church elders homes use for the Sunday Trinity worship meetings. This way it helps the apostles/workers to dedicate their whole life in God's service, preaching and pastors the land and sheep. But Jesus said he had no where to lay his head, so he didn’t depend on his convert/followers for sustenance. He apparently could go seaside and ask a fish to hop into the pan to cook for the Apostles saw him on the bank with a fish over the fire. You are mistaken... In the beginning when Jesus started out in the ministry he had no follower or home where to lay his head but as time goes on we read of different ones invited him to come to their homes for suppers, places to stay like Zacheus, Mary and Marth and the many women followers provided money and things whatever he and his apostles needs. They had so much money that Judas was the one who held the money bag for the group.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 30, 2019 21:11:06 GMT -5
But Jesus said he had no where to lay his head, so he didn’t depend on his convert/followers for sustenance. He apparently could go seaside and ask a fish to hop into the pan to cook for the Apostles saw him on the bank with a fish over the fire. You are mistaken... In the beginning when Jesus started out in the ministry he had no follower or home where to lay his head but as time goes on we read of different ones invited him to come to their homes for suppers, places to stay like Zacheus, Mary and Marth and the many women followers provided money and things whatever he and his apostles needs. They had so much money that Judas was the one who held the money bag for the group.
Judas always had the bag it wasn’t given to him by Jesus. Nathaniel thought he’d be a good member because of his business acuity. But little did any of them know for what reason Jesus chose him. Jesus professed he had no where to lay his head. No where does the Bible say he was “invited” anywhere.
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Post by Grant on Nov 30, 2019 21:14:40 GMT -5
But Jesus said he had no where to lay his head, so he didn’t depend on his convert/followers for sustenance. He apparently could go seaside and ask a fish to hop into the pan to cook for the Apostles saw him on the bank with a fish over the fire. You are mistaken... In the beginning when Jesus started out in the ministry he had no follower or home where to lay his head but as time goes on we read of different ones invited him to come to their homes for suppers, places to stay like Zacheus, Mary and Marth and the many women followers provided money and things whatever he and his apostles needs. They had so much money that Judas was the one who held the money bag for the group.
Weren't Mary and Martha relatives. Of course he ate and no doubt stayed with people he met along the way but this was spontaneous and not arranged weeks, months and years ahead like the workers accommodation is. Guaranteed free food, lodging and car they are. They don't trust God for anything, they trust the overseers to provide it. No, Jesus traveled freely around and was not tied tp the role of an overseer like the workers are having no where to lay his head. It's fine to stay with people but don't claim like the workers do that like Jesus they have no where to lay there head. A poor me tactic which workers often used at many conventions I attended growing up. They preached one thing but practiced another. I have never seen a worker with a money bag like Judas had. They boast that they don't have collections. You don't know how much money Judas collected. And where did Mary and Martha get this so called money from they gave to Jesus? Women would not have had an independent means of income back then. Many people when they travel around have people invite them to stay as people invited Jesus. The workers dont depend on people they meet on the way to invite them home for the night, their accommodation is pre arranged like yours or mine is when we travel around.
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Post by nathan on Nov 30, 2019 21:50:23 GMT -5
You are mistaken... In the beginning when Jesus started out in the ministry he had no follower or home where to lay his head but as time goes on we read of different ones invited him to come to their homes for suppers, places to stay like Zacheus, Mary and Marth and the many women followers provided money and things whatever he and his apostles needs. They had so much money that Judas was the one who held the money bag for the group.
Judas always had the bag it wasn’t given to him by Jesus. Nathaniel thought he’d be a good member because of his business acuity. But little did any of them know for what reason Jesus chose him. Jesus professed he had no where to lay his head. No where does the Bible say he was “invited” anywhere. You need to read your Bible more often, STR.
1) Luke 7:36-50 A Pharisee invited Jesus to have dinner with him, and Jesus went to his house and sat down to eat. In that town was a woman who lived a sinful life. She heard that Jesus was eating in the Pharisee's house, so she brought an alabaster jar full of perfume and stood behind Jesus, by his feet, crying and wetting his feet with her tears. Then she dried his feet with her hair, kissed them, and poured the perfume on them. When the Pharisee saw this, he said to himself, “If this man really were a prophet, he would know who this woman is who is touching him; he would know what kind of sinful life she lives!” 2) Luke 19:5 When Jesus reached the spot, he looked up and said to him, "Zacchaeus, come down immediately. I must stay at your house today."
3) Luke 10:38-42 As Jesus and his disciples were on their way, he came to a village where a woman named Martha opened her home to him. She had a sister called Mary, who sat at the LORD's feet listening to what he said. But Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made. She came to him and asked, "LORD, don't you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Tell her to help me!" "Martha, Martha," the LORD answered, "you are worried and upset about many things, but few things are needed-or indeed only one. Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her."
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Post by Grant on Nov 30, 2019 21:51:58 GMT -5
even Jesus knew that not everyone would offer for the work.... *** According to Paul epistle 1 Cor. There were about 600 followers of Jesus after his death. While he was alive he appointed 12,70 as his apostles and he appointed Paul apostle to the Gentiles. NOT all followers of Jesus became apostles/workers, but only a few were called to be preachers of the gospel full time. The man of legion wanted to follow Jesus as one of his apostles but he told him No, you go back to your home and be good witness to them and tell the priests what God has done for you. God has set up TWO TIERS or CALLINGS! The saints/friends to provide homes for the apostles to stay, foods for them to eat, and money for their journey. The church elders homes use for the Sunday Trinity worship meetings. This way it helps the apostles/workers to dedicate their whole life in God's service, preaching and pastors the land and sheep. Nathan there are many callings into ministry. There are not just workers and followers who are there to provide financially for them. That is not the purpose of not everyone going into ministry. Of course we should always help those who need help but it is a by product of life, not a reason for there being those who do not go preaching. Church members are expected to provide for the preaching of the Gospel. I dont believe there should be the expectation that you will be kept free if you become a worker. Pastors work very hard for their money, unlike the workers who do very little for their keep. The church had elders, deacons, and the such like, not just workers and saints. In fact it was a priesthood of believers not just the priests/workers. It was never meant that pastors would go around living with people. The workers are just that, pastors but still try and live like freelance evangelists of which most are not. The workers need to get their ministry roles right and who knows maybe one day they will and those who are stationary be allowed to get married while overseeing the local church which is all they do now anyway. Evangelists and missionaries have a different role of minstry and is the role that Paul and the apostles mostly took. There was a time where Paul worked and had people coming and going to and from his house if I remember correctly.
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Post by nathan on Nov 30, 2019 22:02:56 GMT -5
You are mistaken... In the beginning when Jesus started out in the ministry he had no follower or home where to lay his head but as time goes on we read of different ones invited him to come to their homes for suppers, places to stay like Zacheus, Mary and Marth and the many women followers provided money and things whatever he and his apostles needs. They had so much money that Judas was the one who held the money bag for the group.
Weren't Mary and Martha relatives. Of course he ate and no doubt stayed with people he met along the way but this was spontaneous and not arranged weeks, months and years ahead like the workers accommodation is. Guaranteed free food, lodging and car they are. No, Jesus traveled freely around and was not tied tp the role of an overseer like the workers are having no where to lay his head. It's fine to stay with people but don't claim like the workers do that like Jesus they have no where to lay there head. A poor me tactic which workers often used at many conventions I attended growing up. They preached one thing but practiced another. I have never seen a worker with a money bag like Judas had. They boast that they don't have collections. You don't know how much money Judas collected. And where did Mary and Martha get this so called money from they gave to Jesus? Women would not have had an independent means of income back then. We have heard the friends complaints about workers, who come to their home for supper or stay overnights un-announced! So, when I was in the work, we tried to give the friends heads up a week and wonder if they had any plans? If they do then it can be another time. That is good manner, to call ahead and make arraignment, with the friends ahead of time, wouldn't you say?
Some of the friends homes, they say COME! and STAY at anytime you want. No, need calling ahead of time.
The women who followed Jesus were wealthy! Matthew 27:55-56 Many women were there, watching from a distance. They had followed Jesus from Galilee to care for his needs. Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joseph, and the mother of Zebedee's sons.
Luke 8:1-3 After this, Jesus traveled about from one town and village to another, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom of God. The Twelve were with him, and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases: Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out; Joanna the wife of Chuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own means.
~~ We read about the rich men who became Jesus followers such as Zacheus, Nicodimus, and Josphus of Armathius and so on.
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 30, 2019 22:30:33 GMT -5
even Jesus knew that not everyone would offer for the work.... *** According to Paul epistle 1 Cor. There were about 600 followers of Jesus after his death. While he was alive he appointed 12,70 as his apostles and he appointed Paul apostle to the Gentiles. NOT all followers of Jesus became apostles/workers, but only a few were called to be preachers of the gospel full time. The man of legion wanted to follow Jesus as one of his apostles but he told him No, you go back to your home and be good witness to them and tell the priests what God has done for you. God has set up TWO TIERS or CALLINGS! The saints/friends to provide homes for the apostles to stay, foods for them to eat, and money for their journey. The church elders homes use for the Sunday Trinity worship meetings. This way it helps the apostles/workers to dedicate their whole life in God's service, preaching and pastors the land and sheep. nathan what is the "Sunday Trinity Worship meeting" never heard any of the F&Ws ever mention such a meeting Or it something made up by the "Church of nathan" !!!
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Post by nathan on Nov 30, 2019 22:33:04 GMT -5
*** According to Paul epistle 1 Cor. There were about 600 followers of Jesus after his death. While he was alive he appointed 12,70 as his apostles and he appointed Paul apostle to the Gentiles. NOT all followers of Jesus became apostles/workers, but only a few were called to be preachers of the gospel full time. The man of legion wanted to follow Jesus as one of his apostles but he told him No, you go back to your home and be good witness to them and tell the priests what God has done for you. God has set up TWO TIERS or CALLINGS! The saints/friends to provide homes for the apostles to stay, foods for them to eat, and money for their journey. The church elders homes use for the Sunday Trinity worship meetings. This way it helps the apostles/workers to dedicate their whole life in God's service, preaching and pastors the land and sheep. Nathan there are many callings into ministry. There are not just workers and followers who are there to provide financially for them. That is not the purpose of not everyone going into ministry. Of course we should always help those who need help but it is a by product of life, not a reason for there being those who do not go preaching. That is why God has TWO callings in the New Testament: Saints and Servants... NOT everyone can go and preach full time like His apostles/workers.
Church members are expected to provide for the preaching of the Gospel. I dont believe there should be the expectation that you will be kept free if you become a worker. Pastors work very hard for their money, unlike the workers who do very little for their keep. The church had elders, deacons, and the such like, not just workers and saints. In fact it was a priesthood of believers not just the priests/workers. You're entitled to your opinion but God is VERY orderly and He has a certain WAY of doing thing because it works! His WAY is the BEST more than men's way and ideas. Paul wrote in I Cor. 9:9-14
For it is written in the law of Moses, thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
11 If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
12 If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
14 Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.
It was never meant that pastors would go around living with people. The workers are just that, pastors but still try and live like freelance evangelists of which most are not. The workers need to get their ministry roles right and who knows maybe one day they will and those who are stationary be allowed to get married while overseeing the local church which is all they do now anyway. Your thinking is NOT according to Jesus New Testament apostolic/workers ministry! You don't fully understand the POWER of Jesus New Testament ministry and their roles as preachers, teachers, evangelists, pastors, ministers, missionaries and so on.
Evangelists and missionaries have a different role of minstry and is the role that Paul and the apostles mostly took. There was a time where Paul worked and had people coming and going to and from his house if I remember correctly. You were a 2x2 for many years in the past but you had little understanding about the workers roles and ministry. Paul had to work with his hands because some false teachers were pointing out to his own converts at Corinth, Paul was NOT an apostle and they want didn't want to supply his daily needs! So, he had to work with own hands to support himself and his co-workers, to prove to them he wasn't there to make profit and personal gain and get free foods from them.
When Paul was a prisoner in Rome, waiting to be trial by Nero the Emperor, the believers in Rome rent a house for him so they could come and see him and supply his daily needs.
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Post by Grant on Nov 30, 2019 22:42:07 GMT -5
Yes Nathan I was a 2x2 for many years and know exactly how it works. The workers and followers. You dont understand the different roles of ministry and seem to think the workers fulfill all these different roles rather than different people having different gifts and ministries when the workers mostly only fillful one.
Yes it tells us not to muzzle the spiritual with carnal things, that is why they and churches have deacons and elders to perform these different roles.
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Post by nathan on Nov 30, 2019 22:45:11 GMT -5
*** According to Paul epistle 1 Cor. There were about 600 followers of Jesus after his death. While he was alive he appointed 12,70 as his apostles and he appointed Paul apostle to the Gentiles. NOT all followers of Jesus became apostles/workers, but only a few were called to be preachers of the gospel full time. The man of legion wanted to follow Jesus as one of his apostles but he told him No, you go back to your home and be good witness to them and tell the priests what God has done for you. God has set up TWO TIERS or CALLINGS! The saints/friends to provide homes for the apostles to stay, foods for them to eat, and money for their journey. The church elders homes use for the Sunday Trinity worship meetings. This way it helps the apostles/workers to dedicate their whole life in God's service, preaching and pastors the land and sheep. nathan what is the "Sunday Trinity Worship meeting" never heard any of the F&Ws ever mention such a meeting Or it something made up by the "Church of nathan " !!! WOW! you were a 2x2 for MANY years and didn't KNOW that? When you were attending the 2x2 Sunday morning worship meeting. Who do to pray and sing hymns to? God the Father, Jesus and Holy Spirit, right? How about the emblems? Who do you give thanks to? Jesus for His forgiveness of your sins.
Who can forgive sin? ONLY God, right? Jesus who died for your sins because He is God.
The friends often sing hymn asking the Holy Spirit/God to breath and be in their meetings.
Why, would you and the 2x2s put Jesus and the Holy Spirit on the SAME level as God the Father? if they weren't part of the Godhead themselves!
This is the doctrine and teaching of the TRINITY....
The concept of the Triune God is taught in the Old and New Testament. In the 2nd century the second generation of the apostles/church fathers came up with a beautiful description word "Trinity" to describe the Triune God in the Bible.
Hippolytus (205 A.D.) "Go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." By this, He showed that whoever omits any one of them, fails in glorifying God perfectly. For it is through the TRINITY that the Father is glorified. For the Father willed, the Son did, and the Spirit manifested.It is the Father who commands, and the Son who obeys, and the Holy Spirit who give understanding. The Father is above ALL, the Son is through ALL, and the Holy Spirit is in ALL. Paul the apostle explains that there is the exact same order within the TRINITY, saying, "I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God." (I Cor. 11:3). So the Father has authority over the Son. The Son is sent by the Father; the Son does the will of the Father; and the Son sits at the Father's right hand. This hierarchy of order can not be reversed. Yet this hierarchy of order in no way diminishes the Son's divinity. Tertullian (212 A.D.) For the very church itself is properly and principally the Spirit Himself, in whom is the TRINITY of the One Divinity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.Cyprian (250 A.D.) Observing the third, sixth, and nineth month for a sacrament of the TRINITY, which was to be manifested in the last times. For the first hour in its progress to the third declared the completed number of the TRINITY. The TRINITY names of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. We are NOT ignorant that there is ONE God; and One Christ, the Lord; and One Holy Spirit. Jesus said, "Go therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit." He suggested that TRINITY, in whose sacrament the nations were to be baptized.Origin (225 A.D.) Saving baptism was NOT complete except by the authority of the most excellent TRINITY of them all. That is, it is made complete by naming the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. In this, we join the name of the Holy Spirit to the Unbegotten God (the Father) and to His Only-begotten Son.
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Post by nathan on Nov 30, 2019 22:52:29 GMT -5
Yes Nathan I was a 2x2 for many years and know exactly how it works. The workers and followers. You dont understand the different roles of ministry and seem to think the workers fulfill all these different roles rather than different people having different gifts and ministries when the workers mostly only fillful one. ~~ I have read your posts for many years! you don't truly understanding the apostles/workers ministry and their roles! you have the Protestant ministry mixed up in your head so your understanding is CLOUDED! very MUDDY and it a mess.Yes it tells us not to muzzle the spiritual with carnal things, that is why they and churches have deacons and elders to perform these different roles. You don't understand what Paul was saying about DO NOT muzzle the mouth of the Oxen, he was talking the apostles as the Oxen treading out the wheat/corn so farmers don't muzzle his/her mouth so it can't eat the wheat/corn! without eating the oxen has no strength to work and make money for the farmers/owners.
The workers feed the friends spiritual foods for the new nature for ETERNITY and is it too much to ask for some food and a place to stay?
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 30, 2019 22:52:34 GMT -5
nathan what is the "Sunday Trinity Worship meeting" never heard any of the F&Ws ever mention such a meeting Or it something made up by the "Church of nathan " !!! WOW! you were a 2x2 for MANY years and didn't KNOW that? When you were attending the 2x2 Sunday morning worship meeting. Who do to pray and sing hymns to? God the Father, Jesus and Holy Spirit, right? How about the emblems? Who do you give thanks to? Jesus for His forgiveness of your sins.
Who can forgive sin? ONLY God, right? Jesus who died for your sins because He is God.
The friends often sing hymn asking the Holy Spirit/God to breath and be in their meetings.
Why, would you and the 2x2s put Jesus and the Holy Spirit on the SAME level as God the Father? if they weren't part of the Godhead themselves!
This is the doctrine and teaching of the TRINITY....
The concept of the Triune God is taught in the Old and New Testament. In the 2nd century the second generation of the apostles/church fathers came up with a beautiful description word "Trinity" to describe the Triune God in the Bible.
Hippolytus (205 A.D.) "Go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." By this, He showed that whoever omits any one of them, fails in glorifying God perfectly. For it is through the TRINITY that the Father is glorified. For the Father willed, the Son did, and the Spirit manifested.It is the Father who commands, and the Son who obeys, and the Holy Spirit who give understanding. The Father is above ALL, the Son is through ALL, and the Holy Spirit is in ALL. Paul the apostle explains that there is the exact same order within the TRINITY, saying, "I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God." (I Cor. 11:3). So the Father has authority over the Son. The Son is sent by the Father; the Son does the will of the Father; and the Son sits at the Father's right hand. This hierarchy of order can not be reversed. Yet this hierarchy of order in no way diminishes the Son's divinity. Tertullian (212 A.D.) For the very church itself is properly and principally the Spirit Himself, in whom is the TRINITY of the One Divinity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.Cyprian (250 A.D.) Observing the third, sixth, and nineth month for a sacrament of the TRINITY, which was to be manifested in the last times. For the first hour in its progress to the third declared the completed number of the TRINITY. The TRINITY names of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. We are NOT ignorant that there is ONE God; and One Christ, the Lord; and One Holy Spirit. Jesus said, "Go therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit." He suggested that TRINITY, in whose sacrament the nations were to be baptized.Origin (225 A.D.) Saving baptism was NOT complete except by the authority of the most excellent TRINITY of them all. That is, it is made complete by naming the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. In this, we join the name of the Holy Spirit to the Unbegotten God (the Father) and to His Only-begotten Son. nathan can you give me the name of one Worker or friend who calls the Sunday Fellowship Meeting, "Sunday Trinity Worship Meeting" ? Just one !!! This is another example of how you "add to" things to try and prove you are right !! I bet there is not even one person on TMB who has ever heard Sunday Meeting called this !!!
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Post by Grant on Nov 30, 2019 22:53:12 GMT -5
First of all the 2x2s do not believe in the Trinity and secondly they do not have worship meetings.
They sing old style hymn music from the traditional Anglican and Methodist era singing down into a hymn book rather than upwards to God.
Their meetings hardly offer any praise to anyone except the workers. Their worship is dead and hardly like we read in the psalms praising and rejoicing in God. They've cut out songs related to the Trinity in meeting hymnbooks.
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Post by Grant on Nov 30, 2019 22:58:08 GMT -5
Yes Nathan I was a 2x2 for many years and know exactly how it works. The workers and followers. You dont understand the different roles of ministry and seem to think the workers fulfill all these different roles rather than different people having different gifts and ministries when the workers mostly only fillful one. ~~ I have read your posts for many years! you don't truly understanding the apostles/workers ministry and their roles! you have the Protestant ministry mixed up in your head so your understanding is CLOUDED! very MUDDY and it a mess.Yes it tells us not to muzzle the spiritual with carnal things, that is why they and churches have deacons and elders to perform these different roles. You don't understand what Paul was saying about DO NOT muzzle the mouth of the Oxen, he was talking the apostles as the Oxen treading out the wheat/corn so farmers don't muzzle his/her mouth so it can't eat the wheat/corn! without eating the oxen has no strength to work and make money for the farmers/owners.
The workers feed the friends spiritual foods for the new nature for ETERNITY and is it too much to ask for some food and a place to stay?
Asking for some food and a place to stay? This is against everything the workers have preached against. Again your version of the 2x2 church. The rest you need to take your 2x2 filters off and read what the Bible is actually saying, not your version of it, nor your version of the workers ministry.
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Post by nathan on Nov 30, 2019 23:03:04 GMT -5
First of all the 2x2s do not believe in the Trinity and secondly they do not have worship meetings.
They sing old style hymn music from the traditional Anglican and Methodist era with their eyes faced down looking into a hymn book rather than upwards to God. Their meetings hardly offer any praise to anyone except the workers. Their worship is dead and hardly like we read in the psalms praising and rejoicing in God. They've cut pu songs related to the Trinity That is FALSE belief, the early days workers believed and taught the TRINITY and Jesus is God! You were a 2x2 for many years and didn't KNOW or Understanding these things? That is so SAD. What do you THINK the Sunday morning meeting is? That is a worship gathering for the workers and the friends to sing praises and give adoration to God the Father, Christ/Jesus God our Redeemer and Savior, and Holy Spirit/God our teacher, guide, counselor and protector John Long's Journal in 1899 wrote:
William Irvine's Doctrines & Leaderships: "Concerning the principals of the Doctrine of Christ, he [Wm Irvine] was sound. He believed in the fall of man, in the Atonement, in the Trinity, in the Divinity of our Lord, in the immortality of the soul, in the resurrection of the body, the inspiration of the Bible, in Heaven for the saved, and in Hell for the lost. He believed in a personal Devil, the enemy of God and man. He believed and taught Repentance and that every person can be saved and know it, and that the conditions of Salvation were "If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9. He taught that every saved soul is indwelt by the Spirit of Christ; and that the life of Jesus, is the pattern for everyone to imitate and follow; and that the life of forsaking all for Christ's sake was the best to live. The fruits of that teaching resulted in farmers, shop keepers, domestic servants, school teachers, police, soldiers, and persons of every occupation forsaking all that they had to follow Jesus; and to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom of God." 2) Jack Carroll ( ex-overseer in Oregon, USA) - Sidney, Manitoba Convention - Monday Evening, November 9, 1914 "God is a trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Man is a trinity: body, soul, and spirit."
3) George Walker (1899 worker) www.trutharchive.net/george-walker---mccordsville-indiana---september-6-1975You can't separate between the three persons in the Trinity because they are all one. They are used in this language to help our finite minds to understand Christ, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit suggests what a mother does for her children. He says, "When they put me on the cross, I will send the Holy Spirit, and He will be in you, teaching you, comforting you, and will be all that a mother could be to you. He can be closer to you than I can be in the flesh." God has made us in three parts, too. We say it is the body, soul, and the spirit. The Bible says sanctify spirit, soul, and body. The spirit is the part that God breathed in. You can't separate them. 4) Sam Charlton - The Word of God - Tacoma, Washington - 1958 God is a trinity and man is a trinity - body, soul, and spirit. It has been very wisely planned by the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in Heaven. They had a private conference and the subject was, “Let us create man in Our image and in Our Likeness.” 5) Leslie White (ex-overseer from Colorado, USA) 1st Oak Lodge Convention - Sunday morning, 2005 "One of the great mysteries that we have in our country and some of our Friends have been silly enough to have got involved in it, and that is that some try to explain the Trinity - The Father, Son and Holy Ghost, nobody can explain or understand that; none of us can understand that. No one can really, fully understand that, but we believe in those three and that they are one, but He is with God. He is God; He's not man; He's not an Angel; He's God-kind. He's like His Father; He's the Son. Just like a natural boy is like his dad, but he's not the dad, but he's got those qualities. He's God the Son; God the Father and God the Holy Ghost. " 6) elizabethcoleman said: 9/1/2015 This might do a few heads in: I have this from a recent convention attendee... "Barry Barkley (Overseer of overseers in the east coast of USA) emphasized that Jesus was fully God but came to earth to become human to enable the lowly sinners such as ourselves to be justified through Him and be with Him in heaven. Barry spoke of the relationship between "God the Father and God the Son." He tied Psalm 22 -- the prophesied words and experience of Jesus -- with passages in the New Testament. These thoughts, perhaps, are nothing "new" to the Bible-believing Christian, but I appreciated the spirit and illumination with which Barry presented elements of our hope in the gospel -- and our need and joyous privilege to make Christ the focal point of all our living." Elizabeth wrote:If you now have workers talking this way about God the Son, and Jesus being fully God, where does that leave F&W who strenuously oppose these "doctrines"?
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Post by Grant on Nov 30, 2019 23:03:57 GMT -5
nathan what is the "Sunday Trinity Worship meeting" never heard any of the F&Ws ever mention such a meeting Or it something made up by the "Church of nathan " !!! WOW! you were a 2x2 for MANY years and didn't KNOW that? When you were attending the 2x2 Sunday morning worship meeting. Who do to pray and sing hymns to? God the Father, Jesus and Holy Spirit, right? How about the emblems? Who do you give thanks to? Jesus for His forgiveness of your sins.
Who can forgive sin? ONLY God, right? Jesus who died for your sins because He is God.
The friends often sing hymn asking the Holy Spirit/God to breath and be in their meetings.
Why, would you and the 2x2s put Jesus and the Holy Spirit on the SAME level as God the Father? if they weren't part of the Godhead themselves!
This is the doctrine and teaching of the TRINITY....
The concept of the Triune God is taught in the Old and New Testament. In the 2nd century the second generation of the apostles/church fathers came up with a beautiful description word "Trinity" to describe the Triune God in the Bible.
Hippolytus (205 A.D.) "Go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." By this, He showed that whoever omits any one of them, fails in glorifying God perfectly. For it is through the TRINITY that the Father is glorified. For the Father willed, the Son did, and the Spirit manifested.It is the Father who commands, and the Son who obeys, and the Holy Spirit who give understanding. The Father is above ALL, the Son is through ALL, and the Holy Spirit is in ALL. Paul the apostle explains that there is the exact same order within the TRINITY, saying, "I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God." (I Cor. 11:3). So the Father has authority over the Son. The Son is sent by the Father; the Son does the will of the Father; and the Son sits at the Father's right hand. This hierarchy of order can not be reversed. Yet this hierarchy of order in no way diminishes the Son's divinity. Tertullian (212 A.D.) For the very church itself is properly and principally the Spirit Himself, in whom is the TRINITY of the One Divinity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.Cyprian (250 A.D.) Observing the third, sixth, and nineth month for a sacrament of the TRINITY, which was to be manifested in the last times. For the first hour in its progress to the third declared the completed number of the TRINITY. The TRINITY names of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. We are NOT ignorant that there is ONE God; and One Christ, the Lord; and One Holy Spirit. Jesus said, "Go therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit." He suggested that TRINITY, in whose sacrament the nations were to be baptized.Origin (225 A.D.) Saving baptism was NOT complete except by the authority of the most excellent TRINITY of them all. That is, it is made complete by naming the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. In this, we join the name of the Holy Spirit to the Unbegotten God (the Father) and to His Only-begotten Son. You need to tell those in meeting that, not us. They are the ones who say they don't believe in the Trinity.
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Post by nathan on Nov 30, 2019 23:13:24 GMT -5
Asking for some food and a place to stay? This is against everything the workers have preached against. Again your version of the 2x2 church. The rest you need to take your 2x2 filters off and read what the Bible is actually saying, not your version of it, nor your version of the workers ministry. The workers don't OPENLY ask some food from the friends and a room to sleep for a few nights... This is how the workers do it most of the time, Hi John and Mary... Our schedule next week is open can we come and stay with your folks for couple nights and that is including dinner with you folks! Are you folks free for next week?
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Post by nathan on Nov 30, 2019 23:17:55 GMT -5
WOW! you were a 2x2 for MANY years and didn't KNOW that? When you were attending the 2x2 Sunday morning worship meeting. Who do to pray and sing hymns to? God the Father, Jesus and Holy Spirit, right? How about the emblems? Who do you give thanks to? Jesus for His forgiveness of your sins.
Who can forgive sin? ONLY God, right? Jesus who died for your sins because He is God.
The friends often sing hymn asking the Holy Spirit/God to breath and be in their meetings.
Why, would you and the 2x2s put Jesus and the Holy Spirit on the SAME level as God the Father? if they weren't part of the Godhead themselves!
This is the doctrine and teaching of the TRINITY....
The concept of the Triune God is taught in the Old and New Testament. In the 2nd century the second generation of the apostles/church fathers came up with a beautiful description word "Trinity" to describe the Triune God in the Bible.
Hippolytus (205 A.D.) "Go and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." By this, He showed that whoever omits any one of them, fails in glorifying God perfectly. For it is through the TRINITY that the Father is glorified. For the Father willed, the Son did, and the Spirit manifested.It is the Father who commands, and the Son who obeys, and the Holy Spirit who give understanding. The Father is above ALL, the Son is through ALL, and the Holy Spirit is in ALL. Paul the apostle explains that there is the exact same order within the TRINITY, saying, "I want you to know that the head of every man is Christ, the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God." (I Cor. 11:3). So the Father has authority over the Son. The Son is sent by the Father; the Son does the will of the Father; and the Son sits at the Father's right hand. This hierarchy of order can not be reversed. Yet this hierarchy of order in no way diminishes the Son's divinity. Tertullian (212 A.D.) For the very church itself is properly and principally the Spirit Himself, in whom is the TRINITY of the One Divinity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.Cyprian (250 A.D.) Observing the third, sixth, and nineth month for a sacrament of the TRINITY, which was to be manifested in the last times. For the first hour in its progress to the third declared the completed number of the TRINITY. The TRINITY names of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. We are NOT ignorant that there is ONE God; and One Christ, the Lord; and One Holy Spirit. Jesus said, "Go therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, the Son, and Holy Spirit." He suggested that TRINITY, in whose sacrament the nations were to be baptized.Origin (225 A.D.) Saving baptism was NOT complete except by the authority of the most excellent TRINITY of them all. That is, it is made complete by naming the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. In this, we join the name of the Holy Spirit to the Unbegotten God (the Father) and to His Only-begotten Son. You need to tell those in meeting that, not us. They are the ones who say they don't believe in the Trinity. I am sharing that information for years, I know the workers and many of the friends around world are READING what I have posted so they KNOW... because the workers in my field had told me that the friends appreciate my posts and spirit that I have shown on TMB.
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 30, 2019 23:24:01 GMT -5
You need to tell those in meeting that, not us. They are the ones who say they don't believe in the Trinity. I am sharing that information for years, I know the workers and many of the friends around world are READING what I have posted so they KNOW... because the workers in my field had told me that the friends appreciate my posts and spirit that I have shown on TMB.
But we all know that you would not "share this information " in a Sunday fellowship meeting ...would you nathan ?? Start calling the Sunday meeting ....the Sunday Trinity Worship meeting and see what happens !!! Or maybe go and start your own Church of Nathan, then you can twist things to suit your belief !!!
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 30, 2019 23:33:33 GMT -5
You are mistaken... In the beginning when Jesus started out in the ministry he had no follower or home where to lay his head but as time goes on we read of different ones invited him to come to their homes for suppers, places to stay like Zacheus, Mary and Marth and the many women followers provided money and things whatever he and his apostles needs. They had so much money that Judas was the one who held the money bag for the group.
Weren't Mary and Martha relatives. Of course he ate and no doubt stayed with people he met along the way but this was spontaneous and not arranged weeks, months and years ahead like the workers accommodation is. Guaranteed free food, lodging and car they are. They don't trust God for anything, they trust the overseers to provide it. No, Jesus traveled freely around and was not tied tp the role of an overseer like the workers are having no where to lay his head. It's fine to stay with people but don't claim like the workers do that like Jesus they have no where to lay there head. A poor me tactic which workers often used at many conventions I attended growing up. They preached one thing but practiced another. I have never seen a worker with a money bag like Judas had. They boast that they don't have collections. You don't know how much money Judas collected. And where did Mary and Martha get this so called money from they gave to Jesus? Women would not have had an independent means of income back then. Many people when they travel around have people invite them to stay as people invited Jesus. The workers dont depend on people they meet on the way to invite them home for the night, their accommodation is pre arranged like yours or mine is when we travel around. Enuf, I am no longer 2x2 either, -but I do not like to hear people bashing the workers as if all the workers were deceitful and NOT practicing what they preached'
My father was a worker before he married my mother. I remember hearing some of the hardships that he, as well as other workers went through in those days.
Eating a cold supper of only some bread and not knowing where their next food would come from. Sleeping in cold school houses. Walking wherever you had to go.
But they sincerely believed in what they were doing, "bringing the gospel of the Jesus" to the world just as Jesus had told his followers to do.
It is one thing for us to now realize the deceit that was propagated by the founders of the 2x2's ' -but remember, most of those younger workers were just as deceived as the rest of us.
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Post by nathan on Nov 30, 2019 23:37:18 GMT -5
I am sharing that information for years, I know the workers and many of the friends around world are READING what I have posted so they KNOW... because the workers in my field had told me that the friends appreciate my posts and spirit that I have shown on TMB.
But we all know that you would not "share this information " in a Sunday fellowship meeting ...would you nathan ?? Start calling the Sunday meeting ....the Sunday Trinity Worship meeting and see what happens !!! Or maybe go and start your own Church of Nathan, then you can twist things to suit your belief !!! I have shared these information for the past 5 yrs with the brothers and sisters workers in the meetings. I just showing what the early workers believed and taught! they believed in the Trinity and Jesus is God... The Sunday morning worship meeting is for the workers and the friends come together to WORSHIP the Trinity/Triune God= Father, Christ/Jesus and Holy Spirit.
We read the same type worship of the TRINITY Sunday morning is revealed in Rev. chapters 4-5. God the Father sits on His throne, Christ/Jesus the Lamb of God standing/sitting in the middle (the emblems is in the center of the living room) and He is circle, or surrounded by 24 elders, the millions angels of God, and great multitude of believers came from many nations through the centuries, bowing down their heads to worship the LAMB of God/Christ Jesus and God the Father! They sing hymns of adoration to Jesus the Lamb of God who died for their sins.
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 30, 2019 23:59:05 GMT -5
But we all know that you would not "share this information " in a Sunday fellowship meeting ...would you nathan ?? Start calling the Sunday meeting ....the Sunday Trinity Worship meeting and see what happens !!! Or maybe go and start your own Church of Nathan, then you can twist things to suit your belief !!! I have shared these information for the past 5 yrs with the brothers and sisters workers in the meetings. I just showing what the early workers believed and taught! they believed in the Trinity and Jesus is God... The Sunday morning worship meeting is for the workers and the friends come together to WORSHIP the Trinity/Triune God= Father, Christ/Jesus and Holy Spirit.
We read the same type worship of the TRINITY Sunday morning is revealed in Rev. chapters 4-5. God the Father sits on His throne, Christ/Jesus the Lamb of God standing/sitting in the middle (the emblems is in the center of the living room) and He is circle, or surrounded by 24 elders, the millions angels of God, and great multitude of believers came from many nations through the centuries, bowing down their heads to worship the LAMB of God/Christ Jesus and God the Father! They sing hymns of adoration to Jesus the Lamb of God who died for their sins.
nathan re-read what I wrote....Start telling those in your meeting that they are attending "Sunday Trinity Worship meetings" then get back to us with their response !! Or give me the name of one Worker who would agree with what you have said !!!
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