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Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 24, 2019 4:36:08 GMT -5
** Jesus is the Son of God means God the Son/ Christ. Christ/God is our Creator and we humans are His creation/ created beings. We/believers have become sons and daughters of God through Christ/God who came down from heaven to earth in the person Jesus to pay the ransom price for our sins. In Hebrews 1 God the Father called the Son "God and LORD" in Rev. 1 jesus said he is the Almighty and Rev. 21 Jesus said he is God and we are His son and daughters. Therefore, Christ/God can forgive sins because he paid our sins with His own precious blood, the Lamb of God in the person Jesus. No, calling himself the son of God does not mean he was God the son. That's not what it means. Jesus said we were all sons and daughters of God. So does that mean that when we call ourselves sons of God that it means we are all God the sons? That's just not an accurate interpretation and the trinity concept wasn't even there in the beginning of the Christian religion. Mark doesn't even talk about the resurrection for that matter. It got added later when it became popular that he somehow survived death. But early Christians didn't believe he was resurrected. That got popular later and Paul had a lot to do with that because of his exposure to the entity called the Christos in other religions. There was a huge rift between the Petrine sect of Christians and the Paulines, another sect of Christians. There was a lot of blood shed between the two groups and it was only when Constantine gave the backing to the trinity doctrine that it became the doctrine of the RCC. But it did mean that he was God the Son. The Jews instantly knew what Jesus meant when he said God was his Father or that he was the Sin of God. They knew he meant he was God the Son because the immediately wanted to kill him for blasphemy for making himself God or equal to God. That’s what has irritated me is why it’s taken the Gentiles so long to understand what the Hews understood immediately when Jesus said he was the Son of God. I’m not saying they believed him but they understood what he said. And he never tried to correct them.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 24, 2019 4:38:45 GMT -5
Jesus never said he was God the son. He called himself the son of man and the son of god and he also said that all of his followers were sons and daughters of god just like him. He called himself “Son of man”as fulfillment if the prophecy in Daniel. He said he was the Son of God, he said his Father was God. Jews knew what he meant, they tried to kill him for blasphemy for saying he was God.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 24, 2019 4:45:52 GMT -5
** I am not wrong because I back up my points with proof. You just don't like my answers because it doesn't agree with your belief. STR, can see these errors clearly and has pointed out to the 2x2s and I agree with her understanding on this subject. It was not about the trinity it was about you telling others that they didn't know or understand certain things. As it seems this something you don't know or understand. janj posted this message to you please read and understand [your opinion that others in your church are wrong because they don't think like you is self righteous -you are telling the truth according to Nathan!!] Please tell how one can be forgiven of their sins when only God can forgive sins and one denies the Deity of Jesus? Doesn’t the denial of Jesus’ deity cancel out the effect his spilt blood should have in cleansing our hearts and minds of our guilt? His stripes are no good for healing our conscience. Simply because if we don’t believe in his deity then he has no power to forgive us.
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Post by Dan on Nov 24, 2019 7:04:02 GMT -5
Imo, God has always forgiven sin, just as we are instructed to forgive those who trespass against us. God forgave sin in the old testament pre-Christ. Calvary went beyond forgiving sin, it absolved the repentant believer of sin and erased the debt. Jesus not only forgave sin, he washed us in the blood of the lamb, removing the curse of the law (the wages of sin is death). No one but God could do that.
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Post by nathan on Nov 24, 2019 10:32:36 GMT -5
** I am not wrong because I back up my points with proof. You just don't like my answers because it doesn't agree with your belief. STR, can see these errors clearly and has pointed out to the 2x2s and I agree with her understanding on this subject. It was not about the trinity it was about you telling others that they didn't know or understand certain things. As it seems this something you don't know or understand. janj posted this message to you please read and understand [your opinion that others in your church are wrong because they don't think like you is self righteous -you are telling the truth according to Nathan!!] And I told you, and Janj… that I am NOT wrong because the world has put the 2x2s as a Cult because they are anti-Trinity, and don't understand or believe in Jesus is God. Most of the current 2x2s don't have a good and clear understanding of who Jesus is. However, the early 2x2 workers had a good/clear understanding that Jesus is God, the Deity of Christ and the word God refers to both God the Father and the Son/Christ.
The early days 2x2 workers and the friends believed and preached the Trinity, Triune God that was why in 1902 they established the Sunday morning with that understanding and belief in mind to worship- God the Father, Christ the Lord God Savior who died for our sins, and Holy Spirit our Teacher, guide, comforter and protector.
Jesus is God/the Christ who came down from heaven to die and paid the ransom price for our sins on Calvary's so Yes, He can forgive sins. In John 8:7-11 the woman who was caught in Adultery.
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
Jesus said, "For whether is easier, to say, Your sins be forgiven you; or to say, Arise, and walk? whether. Mark 2:9-12 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk? … Luke 5:23-25
You a 2x2 church elder, and Janj. called me self-righteous because I point out the 2x2s errors on this subject? Are you serious.
How can you teach what you really don't understand it fully? Then you teach/give people only half-truth message so their understanding is ONLY half-truth message.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 24, 2019 10:36:22 GMT -5
Imo, God has always forgiven sin, just as we are instructed to forgive those who trespass against us. God forgave sin in the old testament pre-Christ. Calvary went beyond forgiving sin, it absolved the repentant believer of sin and erased the debt. Jesus not only forgave sin, he washed us in the blood of the lamb, removing the curse of the law (the wages of sin is death). No one but God could do that. Did God forgive sins in OT? Then why did Jesus have to descend into the depths of the graves and release those held captive by preaching the gospel to them? If they’d been forgiven there’d been no need for Jesus to have to descend into the belly of the earth to free the captives of death, they’d already been in heaven.
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Post by Annan on Nov 24, 2019 10:36:49 GMT -5
You the 2x2 church elder, and Janj. called me self-righteous because I point out the 2x2s errors on this subject? Are you serious. If the 2x2's are in error, how can they be the true way? Makes no sense to me. Did not Jesus say he is the way, the truth, and the light? Obviously Jesus is all you need.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 24, 2019 10:39:03 GMT -5
Imo, God has always forgiven sin, just as we are instructed to forgive those who trespass against us. God forgave sin in the old testament pre-Christ. Calvary went beyond forgiving sin, it absolved the repentant believer of sin and erased the debt. Jesus not only forgave sin, he washed us in the blood of the lamb, removing the curse of the law (the wages of sin is death). No one but God could do that. Revelations 1:6. He has made us kings and priests unto GOD and HIS FATHER...
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Post by nathan on Nov 24, 2019 11:01:02 GMT -5
You the 2x2 church elder, and Janj. called me self-righteous because I point out the 2x2s errors on this subject? Are you serious. If the 2x2's are in error, how can they be the true way? Makes no sense to me. Did not Jesus say he is the way, the truth, and the light? Obviously Jesus is all you need. From what I have learned and observed about the 2x2 system and belief for over 40 yrs. They have things correct in most belief and doctrines they just got off track because their lack in understanding on Trinity and Triune God teaching. They had some bad teachers/workers and overseers around 1950-1970s began preaching the Trinity is heresy and the Devil doctrine then they go down hill after that kind of belief.
The 2x2s denied Jesus is NOT God only The Father is God. They worship ONLY God the Father and NOT the Son that is Anti-Trinity just like the Jehovah Witness belief they ONLY Worship God the Father/Jehovah and NOT the Son. The Jehovah Witness also believe the Trinity is heresy and the devil's doctrine that is BLASPHEMY! These errors can be FIXED with God's help and those in the 2x2 fellowship who can point out the errors to them, it is alright to admit that they have been incorrect in this department and CORRECT it in their preaching and teaching.
~~ To believe in Jesus you MUST come to believe and worship God the Father, Christ/God and Holy Spirit also. They are in the same package and with the wrapping paper. You can't believe ONLY in Jesus the Son and forget God the Father and Holy Spirit, it doesn't WORK that way. Or believe ONLY the Father and forget the Son and Holy Spirit like the Jehovah Witness do! John the apostle wrote in I John 2:23 No one who disowns the Son has the Father. He who acknowledges the Son has also the Father.
World English Bible Whoever denies the Son, the same doesn't have the Father. He who confesses the Son has the Father also.
Young's Literal Translation every one who is denying the Son, neither hath he the Father, he who is confessing the Son hath the Father also.
~~ Without believing in the Son/Christ God who forgives our sins NO MAN/souls can ENTER heaven after death because of sins we have committed, therefore we became mortal beings. That was why Jesus said, "Ye MUST be BORN again!" and that's to receive/believe God/Christ's Spirit so we can enter heaven and be with God the Father for eternity.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 24, 2019 13:20:14 GMT -5
If the 2x2's are in error, how can they be the true way? Makes no sense to me. Did not Jesus say he is the way, the truth, and the light? Obviously Jesus is all you need. From what I have learned and observed about the 2x2 system and belief for over 40 yrs. They have things correct in most belief and doctrines they just got off track because their lack in understanding on Trinity and Triune God teaching. They had some bad teachers/workers and overseers around 1950-1970s began preaching the Trinity is heresy and the Devil doctrine then they go down hill after that kind of belief.
The 2x2s denied Jesus is NOT God only The Father is God. They worship ONLY God the Father and NOT the Son that is Anti-Trinity just like the Jehovah Witness belief they ONLY Worship God the Father/Jehovah and NOT the Son. The Jehovah Witness also believe the Trinity is heresy and the devil's doctrine that is BLASPHEMY! These errors can be FIXED with God's help and those in the 2x2 fellowship who can point out the errors to them, it is alright to admit that they have been incorrect in this department and CORRECT it in their preaching and teaching.
~~ To believe in Jesus you MUST come to believe and worship God the Father, Christ/God and Holy Spirit also. They are in the same package and with the wrapping paper. You can't believe ONLY in Jesus the Son and forget God the Father and Holy Spirit, it doesn't WORK that way. Or believe ONLY the Father and forget the Son and Holy Spirit like the Jehovah Witness do! John the apostle wrote in I John 2:23 No one who disowns the Son has the Father. He who acknowledges the Son has also the Father.
World English Bible Whoever denies the Son, the same doesn't have the Father. He who confesses the Son has the Father also.
Young's Literal Translation every one who is denying the Son, neither hath he the Father, he who is confessing the Son hath the Father also.
~~ Without believing in the Son/Christ God who forgives our sins NO MAN/souls can ENTER heaven after death because of sins we have committed, therefore we became mortal beings. That was why Jesus said, "Ye MUST be BORN again!" and that's to receive/believe God/Christ's Spirit so we can enter heaven and be with God the Father for eternity.
Mark 22:32-34. And the scribe said unto him(Jesus) , Well, Master, Thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other then he: And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices. And Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, THOU ART NOT FAR FROM THE KINGDOM OF GOD. And no man after that durst ask him a question. Does it seem it’s okay to be “not far” from right or the kingdom of God? Didn’t the scribe answer discreetly? Did he have it almost completely right? Was that okay in Jesus eyes?
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Post by snow on Nov 24, 2019 13:51:41 GMT -5
Jesus never said he was God the son. He called himself the son of man and the son of god and he also said that all of his followers were sons and daughters of god just like him. He called himself “Son of man”as fulfillment if the prophecy in Daniel. He said he was the Son of God, he said his Father was God. Jews knew what he meant, they tried to kill him for blasphemy for saying he was God. I disagree. All followers of the Christian refer to their God as their father. Jesus never said he was God the son. Not ever. The Jews never thought he meant he was God the son either.
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Post by speak on Nov 24, 2019 16:13:42 GMT -5
It was not about the trinity it was about you telling others that they didn't know or understand certain things. As it seems this something you don't know or understand. janj posted this message to you please read and understand [your opinion that others in your church are wrong because they don't think like you is self righteous -you are telling the truth according to Nathan!!] And I told you, and Janj… that I am NOT wrong because the world has put the 2x2s as a Cult because they are anti-Trinity, and don't understand or believe in Jesus is God. Most of the current 2x2s don't have a good and clear understanding of who Jesus is. However, the early 2x2 workers had a good/clear understanding that Jesus is God, the Deity of Christ and the word God refers to both God the Father and the Son/Christ.
The early days 2x2 workers and the friends believed and preached the Trinity, Triune God that was why in 1902 they established the Sunday morning with that understanding and belief in mind to worship- God the Father, Christ the Lord God Savior who died for our sins, and Holy Spirit our Teacher, guide, comforter and protector.
Jesus is God/the Christ who came down from heaven to die and paid the ransom price for our sins on Calvary's so Yes, He can forgive sins. In John 8:7-11 the woman who was caught in Adultery.
So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8 And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9 And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
Jesus said, "For whether is easier, to say, Your sins be forgiven you; or to say, Arise, and walk? whether. Mark 2:9-12 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk? … Luke 5:23-25
You a 2x2 church elder, and Janj. called me self-righteous because I point out the 2x2s errors on this subject? Are you serious.
How can you teach what you really don't understand it fully? Then you teach/give people only half-truth message so their understanding is ONLY half-truth message.
Forget it it seems like you will never grasp what we are conveying.
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Post by speak on Nov 24, 2019 16:16:06 GMT -5
It was not about the trinity it was about you telling others that they didn't know or understand certain things. As it seems this something you don't know or understand. janj posted this message to you please read and understand [your opinion that others in your church are wrong because they don't think like you is self righteous -you are telling the truth according to Nathan!!] Please tell how one can be forgiven of their sins when only God can forgive sins and one denies the Deity of Jesus? Doesn’t the denial of Jesus’ deity cancel out the effect his spilt blood should have in cleansing our hearts and minds of our guilt? His stripes are no good for healing our conscience. Simply because if we don’t believe in his deity then he has no power to forgive us. Why don't/didn't you read my post? ?
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Post by nathan on Nov 24, 2019 16:27:37 GMT -5
He called himself “Son of man”as fulfillment if the prophecy in Daniel. He said he was the Son of God, he said his Father was God. Jews knew what he meant, they tried to kill him for blasphemy for saying he was God. I disagree. All followers of the Christian refer to their God as their father. Jesus never said he was God the son. Not ever. The Jews never thought he meant he was God the son either. In Heb. 1 God the Father called the Son "God and Lord." Jesus is the Son and He is God So can we SAY Jesus is God the Son?
In Rev. 1:8 and Rev. 21 Jesus said he is the Almighty/God and God is His Father So, can we say Jesus is God the Son?
Most of the Jews in Jesus days believed there is ONLY ONE God the Father. So, Jesus tried to teach them the ELOHIM/plural Godhead- Father, Christ and Holy Spirit but they were so blind they could NOT understand or see it. The Jews so blind they said to Jesus, you are a man tried to be God! Jesus, you are a Blasphemer! Jesus was telling them the TRUTH He is God the Son NOT God the Father but they did NOT believe Him... Like many people today.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 24, 2019 16:49:47 GMT -5
He called himself “Son of man”as fulfillment if the prophecy in Daniel. He said he was the Son of God, he said his Father was God. Jews knew what he meant, they tried to kill him for blasphemy for saying he was God. I disagree. All followers of the Christian refer to their God as their father. Jesus never said he was God the son. Not ever. The Jews never thought he meant he was God the son either. Revelations 1:5-6. And from Jesus Christ , who IS the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood. And hath made us kings and priests unto GOD and HIS FATHER; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. Verse 8. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the ALMIGHTY. How much plainer can it get? It’s impossible to wrap our heads around until two things become known: that “God speaks to their nature. And that God is a complex unit”. And united they are.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 24, 2019 16:54:16 GMT -5
I disagree. All followers of the Christian refer to their God as their father. Jesus never said he was God the son. Not ever. The Jews never thought he meant he was God the son either. In Heb. 1 God the Father called the Son "God and Lord." Jesus is the Son and He is God So can we SAY Jesus is God the Son?
In Rev. 1:8 and Rev. 21 Jesus said he is the Almighty/God and God is His Father So, can we say Jesus is God the Son?
Most of the Jews in Jesus days believed there is ONLY ONE God the Father. So, Jesus tried to teach them the ELOHIM/plural Godhead- Father, Christ and Holy Spirit but they were so blind they could NOT understand or see it. The Jews so blind they said to Jesus, you are a man tried to be God! Jesus, you are a Blasphemer! Jesus was telling them the TRUTH He is God the Son NOT God the Father but they did NOT believe Him... Like many people today.
Nathan, the Jews DID understand what Jesus was saying; they just didn’t believe it! They didn’t receive him as God’s anointed nor as the Messiah from heaven. They thought the Messiah would be a man with special attributes but never a Son of God and surely not God himself. They understood what Jesus said he was God the Son they didn’t believe him.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 24, 2019 16:55:35 GMT -5
I did read it, it made no sense to me. Sorry.
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Post by Annan on Nov 24, 2019 16:58:47 GMT -5
If the 2x2's are in error, how can they be the true way? Makes no sense to me. Did not Jesus say he is the way, the truth, and the light? Obviously Jesus is all you need. From what I have learned and observed about the 2x2 system and belief for over 40 yrs. They have things correct in most belief and doctrines they just got off track because their lack in understanding on Trinity and Triune God teaching. They had some bad teachers/workers and overseers around 1950-1970s began preaching the Trinity is heresy and the Devil doctrine then they go down hill after that kind of belief.
The 2x2s denied Jesus is NOT God only The Father is God. They worship ONLY God the Father and NOT the Son that is Anti-Trinity just like the Jehovah Witness belief they ONLY Worship God the Father/Jehovah and NOT the Son. The Jehovah Witness also believe the Trinity is heresy and the devil's doctrine that is BLASPHEMY! These errors can be FIXED with God's help and those in the 2x2 fellowship who can point out the errors to them, it is alright to admit that they have been incorrect in this department and CORRECT it in their preaching and teaching.
~~ To believe in Jesus you MUST come to believe and worship God the Father, Christ/God and Holy Spirit also. They are in the same package and with the wrapping paper. You can't believe ONLY in Jesus the Son and forget God the Father and Holy Spirit, it doesn't WORK that way. Or believe ONLY the Father and forget the Son and Holy Spirit like the Jehovah Witness do! John the apostle wrote in I John 2:23 No one who disowns the Son has the Father. He who acknowledges the Son has also the Father.
World English Bible Whoever denies the Son, the same doesn't have the Father. He who confesses the Son has the Father also.
Young's Literal Translation every one who is denying the Son, neither hath he the Father, he who is confessing the Son hath the Father also.
~~ Without believing in the Son/Christ God who forgives our sins NO MAN/souls can ENTER heaven after death because of sins we have committed, therefore we became mortal beings. That was why Jesus said, "Ye MUST be BORN again!" and that's to receive/believe God/Christ's Spirit so we can enter heaven and be with God the Father for eternity.
So from what you said, the 2x2's are not the true way.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 24, 2019 17:07:22 GMT -5
He called himself “Son of man”as fulfillment if the prophecy in Daniel. He said he was the Son of God, he said his Father was God. Jews knew what he meant, they tried to kill him for blasphemy for saying he was God. I disagree. All followers of the Christian refer to their God as their father. Jesus never said he was God the son. Not ever. The Jews never thought he meant he was God the son either. No he didn’t say he was God the Son because the Jews understood when Jesus said God was his Father that Jesus WAS SAYING HE IS GOD OR EQUAL TO GOD. The thing is though the Jews fully understood what Jesus meant when he said God was his Father and when he said he was the Son of God that made him God. They just didn’t believe him because he stood before them looking like any other Jew. Jews knew that when they are the son of someone that means they are them or equal to them. I.e. a Levite son saying he was a son of Aaron meant he was Aaron or he was equal to Aaron. The heir is considered equal to the father. Thus children even these days carry the name of the Jewish tribe from which their fathers are from. It doesn’t matter how many other tribes may have been introduced into the family bloodline the constant is the name of the family tribe is carried by the father. Thus so every father throughout the generation will have been of one tribe even though the mothers may well have been of a fellow tribe of Israel. Though since 9 tribes went missing most of the Jews are Judah, Benjamin and Levite.
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Post by nathan on Nov 24, 2019 17:17:15 GMT -5
From what I have learned and observed about the 2x2 system and belief for over 40 yrs. They have things correct in most belief and doctrines they just got off track because their lack in understanding on Trinity and Triune God teaching. They had some bad teachers/workers and overseers around 1950-1970s began preaching the Trinity is heresy and the Devil doctrine then they go down hill after that kind of belief.
The 2x2s denied Jesus is NOT God only The Father is God. They worship ONLY God the Father and NOT the Son that is Anti-Trinity just like the Jehovah Witness belief they ONLY Worship God the Father/Jehovah and NOT the Son. The Jehovah Witness also believe the Trinity is heresy and the devil's doctrine that is BLASPHEMY! These errors can be FIXED with God's help and those in the 2x2 fellowship who can point out the errors to them, it is alright to admit that they have been incorrect in this department and CORRECT it in their preaching and teaching.
~~ To believe in Jesus you MUST come to believe and worship God the Father, Christ/God and Holy Spirit also. They are in the same package and with the wrapping paper. You can't believe ONLY in Jesus the Son and forget God the Father and Holy Spirit, it doesn't WORK that way. Or believe ONLY the Father and forget the Son and Holy Spirit like the Jehovah Witness do! John the apostle wrote in I John 2:23 No one who disowns the Son has the Father. He who acknowledges the Son has also the Father.
World English Bible Whoever denies the Son, the same doesn't have the Father. He who confesses the Son has the Father also.
Young's Literal Translation every one who is denying the Son, neither hath he the Father, he who is confessing the Son hath the Father also.
~~ Without believing in the Son/Christ God who forgives our sins NO MAN/souls can ENTER heaven after death because of sins we have committed, therefore we became mortal beings. That was why Jesus said, "Ye MUST be BORN again!" and that's to receive/believe God/Christ's Spirit so we can enter heaven and be with God the Father for eternity.
So from what you said, the 2x2's are not the true way. No, what I am SAYING is the 2x2 is the TRUE Way of Jesus/God Christ on earth. Many of the workers in the past lead them in the wrong tracks with the Trinity is heresy and the devil's/Pagan doctrine. So, it turned most of the current workers and the friends on the Anti-Trinity and Jesus is NOT God. The word God refers ONLY to Father and NOT the Son, he is ONLY the Son of God and NOT God. They need to readjust or CORRECT their thinking then they are good on their way.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 24, 2019 18:09:07 GMT -5
So from what you said, the 2x2's are not the true way. No, what I am SAYING is the 2x2 is the TRUE Way of Jesus/God Christ on earth. Many of the workers in the past lead them in the wrong tracks with the Trinity is heresy and the devil's/Pagan doctrine. So, it turned most of the current workers and the friends on the Anti-Trinity and Jesus is NOT God. The word God refers ONLY to Father and NOT the Son, he is ONLY the Son of God and NOT God. They need to readjust or CORRECT their thinking then they are good on their way.
Being nearly right won’t get it!
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Post by nathan on Nov 24, 2019 18:16:58 GMT -5
No, what I am SAYING is the 2x2 is the TRUE Way of Jesus/God Christ on earth. Many of the workers in the past lead them in the wrong tracks with the Trinity is heresy and the devil's/Pagan doctrine. So, it turned most of the current workers and the friends on the Anti-Trinity and Jesus is NOT God. The word God refers ONLY to Father and NOT the Son, he is ONLY the Son of God and NOT God. They need to readjust or CORRECT their thinking then they are good on their way.
Being nearly right won’t get it! The apostles and the 1st century Church didn't get 100% right, either. Look at the 7 churches in the book of Revelation most of them had plenty of problems. Can you point/show to me where is the perfect church on earth?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 24, 2019 18:57:39 GMT -5
Being nearly right won’t get it! The apostles and the 1st century Church didn't get 100% right, either. Look at the 7 churches in the book of Revelation most of them has plenty of problems. Can you point/show to me where is the perfect church on earth?
It’s truly believing on Jesus Christ is the very thing that gives salvation. Everything else becomes rites and traditions
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Post by Dan on Nov 24, 2019 21:02:22 GMT -5
Imo, God has always forgiven sin, just as we are instructed to forgive those who trespass against us. God forgave sin in the old testament pre-Christ. Calvary went beyond forgiving sin, it absolved the repentant believer of sin and erased the debt. Jesus not only forgave sin, he washed us in the blood of the lamb, removing the curse of the law (the wages of sin is death). No one but God could do that. Did God forgive sins in OT? Then why did Jesus have to descend into the depths of the graves and release those held captive by preaching the gospel to them? If they’d been forgiven there’d been no need for Jesus to have to descend into the belly of the earth to free the captives of death, they’d already been in heaven.
Forgiveness does not relinquish the consequence of sin. (e.g; If I dented your car, you might forgive me, but your car is still dented.) Jesus paid the price for the remission of sin. Jesus descended to make this proclamation and preached to the spirits in prison.
Forgiveness does not mandate reconciliation Forgiveness is not to forget Forgiveness is not trust Forgiveness does not erase the sin (the cross did) Forgiveness removes resentment
"I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more" (Isaiah 43:25)
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Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 24, 2019 22:34:24 GMT -5
Did God forgive sins in OT? Then why did Jesus have to descend into the depths of the graves and release those held captive by preaching the gospel to them? If they’d been forgiven there’d been no need for Jesus to have to descend into the belly of the earth to free the captives of death, they’d already been in heaven.
Forgiveness does not relinquish the consequence of sin. (e.g; If I dented your car, you might forgive me, but your car is still dented.) Jesus paid the price for the remission of sin. Jesus descended to make this proclamation and preached to the spirits in prison.
Forgiveness does not mandate reconciliation Forgiveness is not to forget Forgiveness is not trust Forgiveness does not erase the sin (the cross did) Forgiveness removes resentment
"I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more" (Isaiah 43:25)
Yet, when Jesus appears in the sky and gathere’s his own from the four winds, we will stand before him on the Bema seat. Where he will judge our deeds. No sin will be mentioned but our deeds and our motives behind those deeds. This is the test by fire our deeds have to stand before rewards or crowns are awarded. As a Paul mentioned some people’s deeds won’t stand the test . By fire but they’ll have eternal life just no crowns.
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Post by Grant on Nov 25, 2019 0:19:23 GMT -5
Forgiveness does not relinquish the consequence of sin. (e.g; If I dented your car, you might forgive me, but your car is still dented.) Jesus paid the price for the remission of sin. Jesus descended to make this proclamation and preached to the spirits in prison.
Forgiveness does not mandate reconciliation Forgiveness is not to forget Forgiveness is not trust Forgiveness does not erase the sin (the cross did) Forgiveness removes resentment
"I, even I, am he who blots out your transgressions, for my own sake, and remembers your sins no more" (Isaiah 43:25)
Yet, when Jesus appears in the sky and gathere’s his own from the four winds, we will stand before him on the Bema seat. Where he will judge our deeds. No sin will be mentioned but our deeds and our motives behind those deeds. This is the test by fire our deeds have to stand before rewards or crowns are awarded. As a Paul mentioned some people’s deeds won’t stand the test . By fire but they’ll have eternal life just no crowns. According to Chuck Missler, there are three principal judgments that are often confused: the Bema Seat Judgment, the Sheep and Goat Judgment, and the Great White Throne. They are each quite different. The Bema Seat deals with rewards for obedience, crowns, and the call of the Bride to the Marriage of the Lamb which occurs in the Father’s house. The Sheep and Goat Judgment is on the earth. Three separate parties are involved, and mortals are judged on the basis of their “works.” The Great White Throne occurs at the end of the Millennium, deals with the unsaved dead, and ushers in the New Heavens, the New Earth, and the New Jerusalem. That's Chuck's views.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 25, 2019 9:47:51 GMT -5
Yet, when Jesus appears in the sky and gathere’s his own from the four winds, we will stand before him on the Bema seat. Where he will judge our deeds. No sin will be mentioned but our deeds and our motives behind those deeds. This is the test by fire our deeds have to stand before rewards or crowns are awarded. As a Paul mentioned some people’s deeds won’t stand the test . By fire but they’ll have eternal life just no crowns. According to Chuck Missler, there are three principal judgments that are often confused: the Bema Seat Judgment, the Sheep and Goat Judgment, and the Great White Throne. They are each quite different. The Bema Seat deals with rewards for obedience, crowns, and the call of the Bride to the Marriage of the Lamb which occurs in the Father’s house. The Sheep and Goat Judgment is on the earth. Three separate parties are involved, and mortals are judged on the basis of their “works.” The Great White Throne occurs at the end of the Millennium, deals with the unsaved dead, and ushers in the New Heavens, the New Earth, and the New Jerusalem. That's Chuck's views. Yes. The Bema seat Judgment is immediately after the rapture of the saints. It isn’t about sins for salvation is given unto those saints. However the Bema seat judgment is the judgment seat of rewards of deeds of the saints deeds and their motives for those deeds. This is the test by fire if those deeds Paul spoke about. The Bema seat is mentioned in the Latin bible. The sheep and goats judgment is the judgment Jesus gives about the nations of the earth and how they treated Israel during the tribulation. This he does immediately on his second coming. The great white throne judgment is after the old earth and heaven have passed away, the seas and earth having given up their dead. This is as you say the second resurrection.
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Post by nathan on Nov 25, 2019 12:10:26 GMT -5
According to Chuck Missler, there are three principal judgments that are often confused: the Bema Seat Judgment, the Sheep and Goat Judgment, and the Great White Throne. They are each quite different. The Bema Seat deals with rewards for obedience, crowns, and the call of the Bride to the Marriage of the Lamb which occurs in the Father’s house. The Sheep and Goat Judgment is on the earth. Three separate parties are involved, and mortals are judged on the basis of their “works.” The Great White Throne occurs at the end of the Millennium, deals with the unsaved dead, and ushers in the New Heavens, the New Earth, and the New Jerusalem. That's Chuck's views. Yes. The Bema seat Judgment is immediately after the rapture of the saints. It isn’t about sins for salvation is given unto those saints. However the Bema seat judgment is the judgment seat of rewards of deeds of the saints deeds and their motives for those deeds. This is the test by fire if those deeds Paul spoke about. The Bema seat is mentioned in the Latin bible. The sheep and goats judgment is the judgment Jesus gives about the nations of the earth and how they treated Israel during the tribulation. This he does immediately on his second coming. The great white throne judgment is after the old earth and heaven have passed away, the seas and earth having given up their dead. This is as you say the second resurrection. *** I believe Chuck M. view is right and correct according to scriptures.
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