|
Post by what it means on Jul 6, 2007 14:05:58 GMT -5
In bert's mind, anyone who is "non-professing" is, by definition, doomed to a lost eternity due to not holding their faith in 2x2ism, as he does.
|
|
|
Post by a believer on Jul 6, 2007 21:28:04 GMT -5
Itinerant ministries have sprung up all over the place all claiming to be the true one. It is the Gospel that has come down through the centuries, not any itinerant ministry. The Gospel has come down unbroken from generation, not any ministry.
|
|
|
Post by a believer on Jul 6, 2007 21:34:43 GMT -5
Jesus is the truth, Jesus is the Gospel fulfilled, not the men who bring it. Men live and die, but The Gospel message lives on.
The Gospel is not a ministry, the ministry which comes and goes is man up of men but the Gospel message lives on. It is the Gospel that continues, not any ministry as we know that the 2x2s are a newly formed ministry that sprung up from mainstream churches. The workers itinerant ministry did not come down the centuries.
|
|
|
Post by confirmed on Jul 6, 2007 22:17:28 GMT -5
Here is confirmation. Nathan cannot learn.
He still believes that the Gospel is the ministry, and the ministry is the Gospel.
|
|
|
Post by wanttobewithGod on Jul 6, 2007 23:23:18 GMT -5
I find it ridiculous that certain members of this board are allowed to think what they like regarding religion, while other members are badgered and badgered over their choices...and practically have other options forced down their throats! What hyprocrisy!
I don't believe in a lot of the so called 2x2 teachings myself anymore, but I *do* believe a lot of it as well. I'm still sorting out what I actually think, as I only discovered a lot of these sites a short time ago...even tho I've been out for 16 plus years. (ie, not professing.) It's very confusing to learn at first.
I've said this about until my face turns blue already here...It's not so much in "defense" of the 2x2 religion as I've been "accused of" (not that that would be a bad thing!).... just that why should *anyone* have to defend what HE/SHE believe?? I'm more in defense of fairness across the board!!! We can all have discussions about it, sure....but to just plain tell someone well, you're wrong and you should hear THIS (which you obviously believe to be correct)........I dunno. Truth is, we are all interpreting the Bible to the best of our abilities, IMO. NO ONE *really* knows the absolute truth until after it's already too late. We can only read, pray, study and try to get it as right as we possibly can. M.
|
|
|
Post by ANDREW M on Jul 7, 2007 3:36:40 GMT -5
In my view we should not be looking at who is the right ministry (or doing things right) by the form or manner of their preaching, etc. The produce of their "faith" will be borne out in their lives.
Those who have true faith, i.e. all true believers in Christ, will produce the fruit of his spirit in their lives whether they be involved in preaching or other forms of ministry.
Look for :
GAL. 5:22 "The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23: Meekness, temperance:against such there is no law."
24 "If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit."
Matt. 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing (appearing as correct form/preaching righteousness ?), but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16: Ye shall know them by their fruits"
18."A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit."
Can Irvinistic iseas and beliefs bring forth good fruit or does it bring forth corrupt fruit ?
|
|
|
Post by a believer on Jul 7, 2007 3:49:24 GMT -5
Jesus is the truth, Jesus is the Gospel fulfilled, not the men who bring it. Men live and die, but The Gospel message lives on. The Gospel is not a ministry, the ministry which comes and goes is man up of men but the Gospel message lives on. It is the Gospel that continues, not any ministry as we know that the 2x2s are a newly formed ministry that sprung up from mainstream churches. The workers itinerant ministry did not come down the centuries. Let me ask you this a believer..... Is the 2x2 Itinerant workers ministry and fellowship are of and from God or NOT? according to you? Jesus is from God or part of God but a ministry and fellowship are believers who meet together. They are the church. Jesus being the corner stone, not a ministry.
|
|
|
Post by a believer on Jul 7, 2007 3:54:37 GMT -5
I find it ridiculous that certain members of this board are allowed to think what they like regarding religion, while other members are badgered and badgered over their choices...and practically have other options forced down their throats! What hyprocrisy! I don't believe in a lot of the so called 2x2 teachings myself anymore, but I *do* believe a lot of it as well. I'm still sorting out what I actually think, as I only discovered a lot of these sites a short time ago...even tho I've been out for 16 plus years. (ie, not professing.) It's very confusing to learn at first. I've said this about until my face turns blue already here...It's not so much in "defense" of the 2x2 religion as I've been "accused of" (not that that would be a bad thing!).... just that why should *anyone* have to defend what HE/SHE believe?? I'm more in defense of fairness across the board!!! We can all have discussions about it, sure....but to just plain tell someone well, you're wrong and you should hear THIS (which you obviously believe to be correct)........I dunno. Truth is, we are all interpreting the Bible to the best of our abilities, IMO. NO ONE *really* knows the absolute truth until after it's already too late. We can only read, pray, study and try to get it as right as we possibly can. M. you write why should anyone have to defend what they believe? NO one has to defend what they believe - they choose to.
|
|
|
Post by wanttobewithGod on Jul 7, 2007 4:34:00 GMT -5
That *is* true and you have a point there....but the same questions are asked to the same people time and time and time again....if it's not that it's anon members ridiculing them. Aren't we all adults here? Ah well. It was just a thought. True what you said though. M.
|
|
|
Post by bornagainst on Jul 7, 2007 4:35:25 GMT -5
The level of debate and disagreement even amongst christian believers demonstrates the power of faith to cause division. When you compound the disagreement of christians with all the other religions and take into account the variations even within them it starts to get scarey. All this is based on belief and blind faith.
And we have people prepared to strap on bombs and others prepared to invade countries all crying “god is on our side”, believing in ancient mythical stories inspired by anonymous authors, who were all truly convinced they had the one true way.
Look at the big picture. There are lots of small gods competing for a tiny little world in an enormous universe which for all we know has other little worlds who know nothing about us.
Thinking positively, wouldn’t it be great if people could accept that there are lots of gods and tried to mould them so that they are all loving and not in least jealous of the other ones? We could then all focus on the real problems facing us and the planet.
|
|
|
Post by Reality on Jul 7, 2007 7:33:05 GMT -5
I find it ridiculous that certain members of this board are allowed to think what they like regarding religion, while other members are badgered and badgered over their choices...and practically have other options forced down their throats! What hyprocrisy! I don't believe in a lot of the so called 2x2 teachings myself anymore, but I *do* believe a lot of it as well. I'm still sorting out what I actually think, as I only discovered a lot of these sites a short time ago...even tho I've been out for 16 plus years. (ie, not professing.) It's very confusing to learn at first. I've said this about until my face turns blue already here...It's not so much in "defense" of the 2x2 religion as I've been "accused of" (not that that would be a bad thing!).... just that why should *anyone* have to defend what HE/SHE believe?? I'm more in defense of fairness across the board!!! We can all have discussions about it, sure....but to just plain tell someone well, you're wrong and you should hear THIS (which you obviously believe to be correct)........I dunno. Truth is, we are all interpreting the Bible to the best of our abilities, IMO. NO ONE *really* knows the absolute truth until after it's already too late. We can only read, pray, study and try to get it as right as we possibly can. M. Bert and Nate enjoy it. Helps them think they are right.
|
|
|
Post by Ken Coooldge on Jul 7, 2007 14:22:24 GMT -5
Bert and Nathan Study the word OBFUSCATION Ken
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2007 5:15:03 GMT -5
Obfuscation refers to the concept of concealing the meaning of communication by making it more confusing and harder to interpret
Wikipedia. Is that why I have a long list of unanswered questions from the TMB? Another word to look up is IGNORE. Read Nathan's question, " Is the 2x2 Itinerant workers ministry and fellowship ... from God or NOT?..."
nb, the following cut and paste is from some TMB person who contested Paul's warning about forsaking church. It is a CLASSIC of obfuscation. me - Paul was speaking of people were missing meetings slash home-service slash church. He was saying what we say, ie don't miss it. anonymous (possibly Lee or Randal) - Pure misreptersentation (sic) of scripture
Not forsaking the assembling Lexicon Results for episynagōgē (Strong's G1997) 1) a gathering together in one place 2) the (religious) assembly (of Christians)
of ourselves together , as the manner Lexicon Results for ethos (Strong's G1485) 1) custom 2) usage prescribed by law, institute, prescription, rite
of some [is]; but exhorting [one another]: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
Just these two words show your error. It does not say How many times you must meet as in the post (don't miss any meetings). It does not say anywhere that this means (in a home.) Further is makes clear that it should not be done as in a CUSTOM PERSCRIBED BY AND INSTUTIONAL RITE--The of which you are doing. Your attempts to use this scripture are False teachings Related Scripture 2Th 2:1 Now (1161) we beseech (2065) you (5209), brethren (80), by (5228) the coming (3952) of our (2257) Lord (2962) Jesus (2424) Christ (5547), and (2532) [by] our (2257) gathering together (1997) unto (1909) him (846), Mt:18:20: For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. NOT ACCORDING TO 2x2 DOCTRINE
|
|
From BERT Double Speak
Guest
|
Post by From BERT Double Speak on Jul 8, 2007 7:46:33 GMT -5
Obfuscation refers to the concept of concealing the meaning of communication by making it more confusing and harder to interpret
Wikipedia. Is that why I have a long list of unanswered questions from the TMB? Another word to look up is IGNORE. Read Nathan's question, " Is the 2x2 Itinerant workers ministry and fellowship ... from God or NOT?..."
nb, the following cut and paste is from some TMB person who contested Paul's warning about forsaking church. It is a CLASSIC of obfuscation. me - Paul was speaking of people were missing meetings slash home-service slash church. He was saying what we say, ie don't miss it. anonymous (possibly Lee or Randal) - Pure misreptersentation (sic) of scripture
Not forsaking the assembling Lexicon Results for episynagōgē (Strong's G1997) 1) a gathering together in one place 2) the (religious) assembly (of Christians)
of ourselves together , as the manner Lexicon Results for ethos (Strong's G1485) 1) custom 2) usage prescribed by law, institute, prescription, rite
of some [is]; but exhorting [one another]: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
Just these two words show your error. It does not say How many times you must meet as in the post (don't miss any meetings). It does not say anywhere that this means (in a home.) Further is makes clear that it should not be done as in a CUSTOM PERSCRIBED BY AND INSTUTIONAL RITE--The of which you are doing. Your attempts to use this scripture are False teachings Related Scripture 2Th 2:1 Now (1161) we beseech (2065) you (5209), brethren (80), by (5228) the coming (3952) of our (2257) Lord (2962) Jesus (2424) Christ (5547), and (2532) [by] our (2257) gathering together (1997) unto (1909) him (846), Mt:18:20: For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. NOT ACCORDING TO 2x2 DOCTRINE
BERT SAID in ANOTHER THREAD
from our web site: The use of terms like "scribal error", "mistranslation", "Greek translation", "contemporary beliefs" and "higher criticism" marks the speaker as most likely a deconstructor of biblical text. Such people like to promote themselves as having a greater knowledge of the bible than the person they are speaking to. Their agenda is to vaunt themselves, or as Paul put it, to subvert people. Hum So then BertCollective is being a deconstructor of Biblical Text promoting themselves. Agenda To vaunt themselves
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 8, 2007 8:02:34 GMT -5
er... sorry. I am quoting what someone wrote to me in Greek lets-strive-over-words-to-no-effect-but-the-subverting-of-souls.
I didn't write this. ;D
|
|
|
Post by You do on Jul 8, 2007 8:57:30 GMT -5
It in every post with your dribble
|
|
|
Post by Hey dribbler on Jul 8, 2007 9:06:41 GMT -5
Hey dribbler - go learn English
|
|
|
Post by I am on Jul 8, 2007 9:14:35 GMT -5
Hey dribbler - go learn English Not english so Why? What is that all you can think of? You have dribble too.
|
|
|
Post by junia on Jul 10, 2007 13:19:52 GMT -5
Nathan and Bert, If I bought you both copies of the entire series on CD and had them shipped to you, would you promise to listen with an open mind then? Sure, I would listen to it with an open mind and I will let you know what I think of his understanding. To save you some the money just tell us in a nutshell what is this man's theory and understanding on the apostolic succession.
When I get back from work I will PM you my mailing address, Junia.This limited time offer has now expired, and due to lack of interest it will not be extended.
|
|
|
Post by junia on Jul 10, 2007 14:27:08 GMT -5
Thanks, for the offered but I lost my interest. I'm just shocked!!! I never would have predicted that.
|
|
|
Post by Zorro on Jul 10, 2007 15:38:25 GMT -5
Nathan, You don't realize what you are saying. You've not even listened to Alistair Begg.....I assure you that you wouldn't want to engage him in any type of debate - he's in a completely different league. Now engaging in dialogue? He's fully aware of the 2x2 fellowship (he's a Scot) and if you emailed him, I have little doubt that he'd write you back. Give it a shot.
|
|
|
Post by Discussion on Jul 10, 2007 16:00:06 GMT -5
Sure I don't mind if Mr. Alistair B. and I have a discussion on the TMB... about the 2x2s doctrines and fellowship. I am in. Nathan9 can discuss this with anybody. All he has to get to is "where does the Bible say the 2x2 itinerant ministry will end?" and "there have always been itineant 2x2 ministry" and "according to Broadbent and even enemies of the Vaudois..." and last, but not least "you are free to believe what you want" matched only by "let the reader decide".
|
|
|
Post by junia on Jul 10, 2007 16:05:31 GMT -5
Sure I don't mind if Mr. Alistair B. and I have a discussion on the TMB... about the 2x2s doctrines and fellowship. I am in. With all due respect Nathan, we're supposed to believe this when you're not even interested in listening to him on a free CD?
|
|
|
Post by junia on Jul 10, 2007 16:08:22 GMT -5
Nathan, You don't realize what you are saying. You've not even listened to Alistair Begg.....I assure you that you wouldn't want to engage him in any type of debate - he's in a completely different league. Different league? I love understatement. ;D
|
|
|
Post by Brother Schrock on Jul 10, 2007 16:13:44 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Different Game on Jul 10, 2007 16:15:49 GMT -5
Nathan, You don't realize what you are saying. You've not even listened to Alistair Begg.....I assure you that you wouldn't want to engage him in any type of debate - he's in a completely different league. Different league? I love understatement. ;D Nathan9 plays a different game than most people involved in discussion. Nathan9 likes to think he is wise as a serpent (and harmless as a dove) and can snake or slither around anyone. He just ignores what is stated if he has trouble with it and restates what he wants to answer. And again, there is always "believe what you want" and "let the reader decide".
|
|
|
Post by Kady on Jul 10, 2007 16:17:10 GMT -5
I listened to the recording. WOW. It's very powerful and so true. I am SO thankful that you posted the link! I've been really questioning and worrying a lot lately about the history of 'the Truth' and this helps me a lot.
The BIBLE is over the CHURCH! The bible has more authority than the workers! Not a surprising fact (we all know it deep down) but it is earth shattering when you say it out loud and start to believe it.
I feel more free than I ever have! Starting to feel free of the bondage of the expectations, the appearance, the pleasing of the workers and friends. Thank you!
|
|
|
Post by junia on Jul 10, 2007 16:34:57 GMT -5
I listened to the recording. WOW. It's very powerful and so true. I am SO thankful that you posted the link! I've been really questioning and worrying a lot lately about the history of 'the Truth' and this helps me a lot. The BIBLE is over the CHURCH! The bible has more authority than the workers! Not a surprising fact (we all know it deep down) but it is earth shattering when you say it out loud and start to believe it. I feel more free than I ever have! Starting to feel free of the bondage of the expectations, the appearance, the pleasing of the workers and friends. Thank you! Kady, You have no idea how much that warmed my heart. You're welcome and thank YOU!
|
|