|
Post by benar on Jan 25, 2020 4:29:18 GMT -5
... so inventing a fictional character to legitimize a false narrative is just plain ridiculous. [/div][/quote]Is there an award for irony?
|
|
|
Post by Lee on Jan 25, 2020 6:01:44 GMT -5
Your paradigms are too conventional for me, to a point of being begardly. This is the only Ife we have.. How do you know this? Who makes you an authority? You love yourself in this life too much. BTW my evil welfare friend loves people. Hates them too at times. Don't we all. Where have I claimed to be an "authority?" I said that I was convinced that this life is all that we have.
You ask "how do I know this?" I don't KNOW it. Not in the way that you, Lee, seem so sure that you KNOW something!
But from the history of other culture's religious ideas & myths plus the phycology that motivates mankind's to believe certain ideas, -I've seen a common thread running through it all.
That thread is a hope & desire for a 'life after death.' That is what has convinced me that the whole concept of a 'life after death' was created by humankind.
Therefore I just don't need to believe that anymore.
PS: I really don't like your twisting my statements into something that I did NOT say., Lee! Like this: "You love yourself in this life too much" I did not say anything to give you the idea that "I love MYSELF..!"
PSS: Why do you keep referring to your friend as your "evil welfare friend?" Why do you call her that and how does it figure into this conversation?
Making babies without the vested interest of a partner such as marriage represents is evil. Yes she made her choices but I'm sad she was born to our age.
|
|
|
Post by Lee on Jan 25, 2020 6:11:10 GMT -5
If you think it's possible God exists or if you think it's possible our lives or souls are journeying in an eternal continuum knock yourself out.
You generally come off as knowing otherwise.
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Jan 25, 2020 10:00:12 GMT -5
The Bible do NOT have all of the pieces earth history/events. I have read and heard of your kind of explanation before that chapter 1 and 2 are the same event.
No, that's not what I was saying at all, I believe they were completely different creations. Chapter 1 has God creating men & women, chapter 2 focuses on a separate creation, A&E being the ancestry or pedigree of Christ.
In Genesis 1:27-28 it is written God created a male/Adam and a female from the dust of the ground NOT men and Women. Then chapter 2 God created Eve to be his help mate, from one of Adam's ribs his own DNA or flesh and blood. What happened to the woman/wife God created for Adam in chapter 1?
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Jan 25, 2020 10:04:37 GMT -5
All righteousness resides in God, as well as complete justice. God created us in His image, independent souls capable of making choices (free-will). We chose to commit sin independently of God, but sin certainly was not His Will. So God did not create sin by default, He simply allowed us the freedom to sin. Yes God is all powerful (omnipotent), but I don't believe God is all knowing (omniscient) when it comes to what we will do. And I don't believe Adam had a wife prior to Eve, I consider that non-biblical Gnostic mythology.
1) Snow wrote: The Hebrews copied the creation story when they were in Babylon in exile. Even the bible does the creation of man and women twice. The only thing left out was the first wife's name. It was a Sumerian story that the Hebrews made their own. That's why it's so important to know about other histories when you read the bible. Then you would know that much of the OT was just a repeat and a re-writing of other earlier creation stories. In Genesis Chapter 1 he talks about making mankind in his image, male and female he created them. 6 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.Then we go on to Chapter two where it says that God made Adam only and breathed life into him. Then as an afterthought he saw that Adam needed a female. So then he created one from Adam's rib. 5 Now no shrub had yet appeared on the earth and no plant had yet sprung up, for the Lord God had not sent rain on the earth and there was no one to work the ground, 6 but streams came up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground. 7 Then the Lord God formed a man[c] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
18 The Lord God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him.”
19 Now the Lord God had formed out of the ground all the wild animals and all the birds in the sky. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name. 20 So the man gave names to all the livestock, the birds in the sky and all the wild animals.
But for Adam[f] no suitable helper was found. 21 So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs[g] and then closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib[h] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.
23 The man said,
“This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called ‘woman,’ for she was taken out of man.”Two different versions in the first two chapters of Genesis. It was copied and only the name Lilith was left out, but not the actual fact that he made both of them out of dust in the first chapter and in the second he made Adam first, couldn't find an animal Adam wanted to mate with so then he made Eve out of his rib. Matched the patriarch society of the Hebrews to make a woman from the rib so she would be subservient. Lilith being made equal out of dust as was Adam didn't conform to the Hebrew society's view of women. And to add the story of Lilith, here is a link to her. She is definitely considered to be Adam's first wife. They eventually relegated her to the status of demon. Not much different from Eve who is blamed for the downfall of all men and blamed for everything. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LilithSnow wrote: Well Adam's first wife Lilith was gotten rid of because she wasn't subservient enough for the Jewish creation story. But even subservient eve that came from a rib instead of made from dust like Lilith was (same and equal to Adam) she still seemed to mess up and men have been paying ever since. SNOW, is correct Moses and the Hebrews received their creation story from Sumeria text, where Abraham and Sarah originated from Iraq today!... there is some truth to Sumerian text about Lilth was Adam's first wife..... She left Adam for Satan to become one of his many wives/Queen of Darkness to prey on Eve's children. Satan/Serpent then also deceived Eve into sin so the Messiah/Savior Jesus couldn't be born into the World to SAVE them and their mortal children from the Second death= Lake of fire for eternity.
Cain/Satan and Abel/God are TWO different seeds or DNA. Adam's seed/children and Satan's seeds/Illuminati children have been at wars each others for centuries. Satan's children were created by him to rule over Adam's mortal beings children.
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 25, 2020 11:13:01 GMT -5
Adam having a living first wife then having a second wife doesn’t fit the supposedly model of being married as long as both spouses live regardless.
|
|
|
Post by Annan on Jan 25, 2020 11:46:17 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Grant on Jan 25, 2020 12:12:06 GMT -5
Adam having a living first wife then having a second wife doesn’t fit the supposedly model of being married as long as both spouses live regardless. Isn't that the New Testament? Multiple wives appears to be fine in the Old Testament. Solomon, the wisest man on earth, I think I read, had many wives and concubines. Not a very wise thing I would think, but then maybe that was why he was wise. Juggling many wives requires some wisdom. Some men have difficulty coping with one.
|
|
|
Post by nathan on Jan 25, 2020 12:17:56 GMT -5
Adam having a living first wife then having a second wife doesn’t fit the supposedly model of being married as long as both spouses live regardless. ** The Godhead plans was to create Adamic race and his first Wife and their imagine of God race to RULE and Reign with Christ on earth and in the Universe. Satan is NOT going to allow God/Elohim to succeed their plans so he's going to throw a monkey wrench in his plans with Adam first and second wife and himself into sins and lost their immortality. Thanks be to Christ/God who came down from heaven/Venus to RESTORE Adam, Eve and their mortals children immortality! So, we believers can RULE with him 1000 yrs reign... That was God will and plans before the foundation of the creation. Jesus said to Nicodemus and to all humans " Yea must be BORN AGAIN! To enter the kingdom of God." Adam first wife died So, God had to create Eve as his wife and help mate and to bear children for him. Paul wrote after a wife or husband has died they are free to marry again.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Jan 25, 2020 13:02:11 GMT -5
Adam having a living first wife then having a second wife doesn’t fit the supposedly model of being married as long as both spouses live regardless. ** The Godhead plans was to create Adamic race and his first Wife and their imagine of God race to RULE and Reign with Christ on earth and in the Universe. Satan is NOT going to allow God/Elohim to succeed their plans so he's going to throw a monkey wrench in his plans with Adam first and second wife and himself into sins and lost their immortality. Thanks be to Christ/God who came down from heaven/Venus to RESTORE Adam, Eve and their mortals children immortality! So, we believers can RULE with him 1000 yrs reign... That was God will and plans before the foundation of the creation. Jesus said to Nicodemus and to all humans " Yea must be BORN AGAIN! To enter the kingdom of God." Adam first wife died So, God had to create Eve as his wife and help mate and to bear children for him. Paul wrote after a wife or husband has died they are free to marry again. Wait a minute, Nathan! You just said a while back:
".. there is some truth to Sumerian text about Lilth was Adam's first wife..... She left Adam for Satan to become one of his many wives/Queen of Darkness to prey on Eve's children."
Now you are saying that she died?
When did she die? You claim Satan is still "alive," -why wouldn't she be also?
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Jan 25, 2020 13:15:16 GMT -5
If you think it's possible God exists or if you think it's possible our lives or souls are journeying in an eternal continuum knock yourself out. You generally come off as knowing otherwise. Well, Lee, -IF YOU find it necessary for your own comfort to believe that there is God and that you have "soul" where you will spend an eternity, -certainly you have a right to your belief.
But I am quite comfortable without that belief.
|
|
|
Post by rational on Jan 25, 2020 13:22:20 GMT -5
I’m pretty sure rational has previously corrected you on the radiometric dating ‘controversy’ I have a number of times but actual data does mean anything when faced by those who believe there is a conspiracy to make the earth look its age.
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 25, 2020 13:32:35 GMT -5
Adam having a living first wife then having a second wife doesn’t fit the supposedly model of being married as long as both spouses live regardless. ** The Godhead plans was to create Adamic race and his first Wife and their imagine of God race to RULE and Reign with Christ on earth and in the Universe. Satan is NOT going to allow God/Elohim to succeed their plans so he's going to throw a monkey wrench in his plans with Adam first and second wife and himself into sins and lost their immortality. Thanks be to Christ/God who came down from heaven/Venus to RESTORE Adam, Eve and their mortals children immortality! So, we believers can RULE with him 1000 yrs reign... That was God will and plans before the foundation of the creation. Jesus said to Nicodemus and to all humans " Yea must be BORN AGAIN! To enter the kingdom of God." Adam first wife died So, God had to create Eve as his wife and help mate and to bear children for him. Paul wrote after a wife or husband has died they are free to marry again. The Bible says nothing about Lilith nor a first wife nor that she died.
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 25, 2020 13:37:17 GMT -5
Adam having a living first wife then having a second wife doesn’t fit the supposedly model of being married as long as both spouses live regardless. Isn't that the New Testament? Multiple wives appears to be fine in the Old Testament. Solomon, the wisest man on earth, I think I read, had many wives and concubines. Not a very wise thing I would think, but then maybe that was why he was wise. Juggling many wives requires some wisdom. Some men have difficulty coping with one. It’s in th OT, Genesis 2:24. Therefore shall A MAN leave his father and mother, and shall cleave unto his WIFE: and they shall be ONE FLESH. I have never read where God okayed more then one wife. And yes, men often had more then one wife.
|
|
|
Post by Dan on Jan 25, 2020 13:38:36 GMT -5
No, that's not what I was saying at all, I believe they were completely different creations. Chapter 1 has God creating men & women, chapter 2 focuses on a separate creation, A&E being the ancestry or pedigree of Christ.
In Genesis 1:27-28 it is written God created a male/Adam and a female from the dust of the ground NOT men and Women. Then chapter 2 God created Eve to be his help mate, from one of Adam's ribs his own DNA or flesh and blood. What happened to the woman/wife God created for Adam in chapter 1? SNOW, is correct Moses and the Hebrews received their creation story from Sumeria text, where Abraham and Sarah originated from Iraq today!... there is some truth to Sumerian text about Lilth was Adam's first wife..... She left Adam for Satan to become one of his many wives/Queen of Darkness to prey on Eve's children. Satan/Serpent then also deceived Eve into sin so the Messiah/Savior Jesus couldn't be born into the World to SAVE them and their mortal children from the Second death= Lake of fire for eternity.
Well, we will have to agree to disagree... The NIV has Gen 1:27 "So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them". Man in this verse is not specific to the Adam created in chapter 2, who was created from the dust of the earth. I believe its men & women (plural), and is a general description of creating human kind in general, God created 'them' all on day 6, every race.
'What happened to the woman/wife God created for Adam in chapter 1?' Genesis 1:27 says nothing about a single woman or a wife, not to mention anyone named Lilith! There's a danger in adding things to scripture that aren't there.
I believe Moses received the creation story by revelation, inspiration of God. If I thought for a moment that it was stolen mythology from a Sumerian text, I'd throw my bible in the trash. You are assigning "Lilith' as a legitimate biblical character when no Lilith is mentioned in the bible, there is no truth to her being a first wife, its not even remotely implied. Stick to God's word, conflating other myths to what's actually written can cause a person to imagine some untruths.
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 25, 2020 13:57:57 GMT -5
The Bible do NOT have all of the pieces earth history/events. I have read and heard of your kind of explanation before that chapter 1 and 2 are the same event.
No, that's not what I was saying at all, I believe they were completely different creations. Chapter 1 has God creating men & women, chapter 2 focuses on a separate creation, A&E being the ancestry or pedigree of Christ. What I’ve wondered is the human creation in chapter one is what archeologists are discovering that shows a variation of human conformation that has led some to think of the evolution from ape to man but in actuality is not; just a difference in humanoid form. Also is it not possible the first created humans were annihilated when whatever happened to make the earth null and void? There has been some scientific discoveries that suggest there was a probable planet collision back many many years ago. And that is how the earth became so large or so much larger then many other planets. Would not such an occurrence eliminate and bury what was on the earth then? Is this not possibly what happened to the dinosaurs? I believe now that science has begun to suspect this that they will eventually figure it all to be just that and the evolution that’s presently thought isn’t that way at all.
|
|
|
Post by Grant on Jan 25, 2020 14:00:31 GMT -5
** The Godhead plans was to create Adamic race and his first Wife and their imagine of God race to RULE and Reign with Christ on earth and in the Universe. Satan is NOT going to allow God/Elohim to succeed their plans so he's going to throw a monkey wrench in his plans with Adam first and second wife and himself into sins and lost their immortality. Thanks be to Christ/God who came down from heaven/Venus to RESTORE Adam, Eve and their mortals children immortality! So, we believers can RULE with him 1000 yrs reign... That was God will and plans before the foundation of the creation. Jesus said to Nicodemus and to all humans " Yea must be BORN AGAIN! To enter the kingdom of God." Adam first wife died So, God had to create Eve as his wife and help mate and to bear children for him. Paul wrote after a wife or husband has died they are free to marry again. Wait a minute, Nathan! You just said a while back:
".. there is some truth to Sumerian text about Lilth was Adam's first wife..... She left Adam for Satan to become one of his many wives/Queen of Darkness to prey on Eve's children."
Now you are saying that she died?
When did she die? You claim Satan is still "alive," -why wouldn't she be also?Yes and people lived 100s of years before the flood so how old was Adam when God made Eve for him? Maybe because she was not a human she lived 'till,,, How long,?? What did she die of? But then Adam was human long long before Eve was made so it makes even less sense .......
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jan 25, 2020 14:01:41 GMT -5
Your paradigms are too conventional for me, to a point of being begardly. This is the only Ife we have.. How do you know this? Who makes you an authority? You love yourself in this life too much. BTW my evil welfare friend loves people. Hates them too at times. Don't we all. Why do you refer to your welfare friend as 'evil'? I don't understand why you would do that.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Jan 25, 2020 14:16:09 GMT -5
In Genesis 1:27-28 it is written God created a male/Adam and a female from the dust of the ground NOT men and Women. Then chapter 2 God created Eve to be his help mate, from one of Adam's ribs his own DNA or flesh and blood. What happened to the woman/wife God created for Adam in chapter 1? SNOW, is correct Moses and the Hebrews received their creation story from Sumeria text, where Abraham and Sarah originated from Iraq today!... there is some truth to Sumerian text about Lilth was Adam's first wife..... She left Adam for Satan to become one of his many wives/Queen of Darkness to prey on Eve's children. Satan/Serpent then also deceived Eve into sin so the Messiah/Savior Jesus couldn't be born into the World to SAVE them and their mortal children from the Second death= Lake of fire for eternity.
Well, we will have to agree to disagree... The NIV has Gen 1:27 "So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them". Man in this verse is not specific to the Adam created in chapter 2, who was created from the dust of the earth. I believe its men & women (plural), and is a general description of creating human kind in general, God created 'them' all on day 6, every race.
'What happened to the woman/wife God created for Adam in chapter 1?' Genesis 1:27 says nothing about a single woman or a wife, not to mention anyone named Lilith! There's a danger in adding things to scripture that aren't there. I believe Moses received the creation story by revelation, inspiration of God. If I thought for a moment that it was stolen mythology from a Sumerian text, I'd throw my bible in the trash. You are assigning "Lilith' as a legitimate biblical character when no Lilith is mentioned in the bible, there is no truth to her being a first wife, its not even remotely implied. Stick to God's word, conflating other myths to what's actually written can cause a person to imagine some untruths.
about Arnold Benjamin Murray in the above video in order to whether to trust what he preaches.
<excerpts>
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shepherd%27s_Chapel
The Shepherd's Chapel is a Christian church and broadcast facility based in Gravette, Arkansas.
The church' founder was Arnold Benjamin Murray, who served as senior pastor until his death.
Pastor Murray teaches a "chapter-by-chapter, verse-by-verse study of God's Word; the Bible".
Also shown are various documentary programs from a pseudoarcheological Anglo-Israelism perspective.
Part of the Shepherd's Chapel's doctrine follows British Israelism, as well as a version of the "serpent seed" doctrine that identifies a "Kenite" lineage of people who are descended from Cain who slew Abel.
Criticism
A 2008 study by the Southern Poverty Law Center's Intelligence Report examined the church and its roots in the Christian Identity movement.
According to the SPLC report, Murray publicly disavowed racism, although he frequently identified the "Kenites" (descendants of Cain) as a minority within the Tribe of Judah, despite Murray's objection to the generalization.
British Israelism contradicts findings of mainstream science and is considered pseudoarcheology.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2020 14:23:28 GMT -5
Well that clears that up then! 😄
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jan 25, 2020 14:59:14 GMT -5
That's the first time I've heard he had three wives. Keep creating till you get it right! Interesting process from a perfect creator!
|
|
|
Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 25, 2020 15:01:39 GMT -5
I’m pretty sure rational has previously corrected you on the radiometric dating ‘controversy’ I have a number of times but actual data does mean anything when faced by those who believe there is a conspiracy to make the earth look its age. I tried to find the article /speech about the fact that the Bible’s accounting of days is not as we would count them. Number one is the months are measured by lunar methods. From one new moon to another is a month. But this man was speaking that the 6 day creation is not 6 modern days, even though we argue it says night then morning. An example is in Daniel, where he speaks of weeks but each week is 7 years. And the cycle is 7x70 to equal 490 years. Also the Bible does say a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years is as a day to God. Without the sun nor moon the first four days, and there is only the “light” which is not said to diminish at any time...it’s very possible those first four days were 4 thousand years. Thus setting the precedent that each day was a thousand years. When you consider all the intricacies of creation and as God is a perfectionist, I feel he took more time to do each part then just a flash. In Isaiah, it says that God(the Son) was alone in the mountains when he stretched out the firmament. That sounds like to me it was not a quick work for he knew just how alone he was!
|
|
|
Post by Grant on Jan 25, 2020 15:10:57 GMT -5
That's the first time I've heard he had three wives. Keep creating till you get it right! Interesting process from a perfect creator! He should have created a perfect world from the start, you reckon? Live in paradise now and not have to wait until the end.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jan 25, 2020 15:52:36 GMT -5
That's the first time I've heard he had three wives. Keep creating till you get it right! Interesting process from a perfect creator! He should have created a perfect world from the start, you reckon? Live in paradise now and not have to wait until the end. Why not? I don't see why it's important to make everyone suffer just because they ate from the wrong tree. And, why would they even have access to the wrong tree if God wanted to keep them 'pure'? imo it wasn't too well thought out unless making us pay was already in the plan.
|
|
|
Post by Grant on Jan 25, 2020 16:08:01 GMT -5
He should have created a perfect world from the start, you reckon? Live in paradise now and not have to wait until the end. Why not? I don't see why it's important to make everyone suffer just because they ate from the wrong tree. And, why would they even have access to the wrong tree if God wanted to keep them 'pure'? imo it wasn't too well thought out unless making us pay was already in the plan. What do you mean making us pay? Life is great, has it's challenges but great none the less. I count it a priviledge to have been born, to have shared in the things of this life. Knowing God has made it even greater. I wouldn't want to live in many places where there's suffering but thankful for where I'm born.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jan 25, 2020 16:20:01 GMT -5
Why not? I don't see why it's important to make everyone suffer just because they ate from the wrong tree. And, why would they even have access to the wrong tree if God wanted to keep them 'pure'? imo it wasn't too well thought out unless making us pay was already in the plan. What do you mean making us pay? Life is great, has it's challenges but great none the less. I count it a priviledge to have been born, to have shared in the things of this life. Knowing God has made it even greater. I wouldn't want to live in many places where there's suffering but thankful for where I'm born. Well if I have to explain what making us pay means, I think you are just being willfully obtuse. I too agree it's great to be born and I don't mind the world we live in. But it's not paradise the way the Garden of Eden is explained. Therefore my comment that why shouldn't we have paradise first and last instead of a world that God kicked them out to? You know, where we had to work and women had to endure a painful childbirth... So it's not a matter of being thankful for being born. I said nothing about that. I agree this world is just fine, but it's not paradise, hence my comment that God wanted us to suffer for our disobedience. Which he should have known would happen in the first place. But that's a whole other conversation.
|
|
|
Post by Annan on Jan 25, 2020 18:30:21 GMT -5
Adam first wife died So, God had to create Eve as his wife and help mate and to bear children for him. You sure about that? Adam and Eve lived in the Garden of Eden. I was taught there was no death in the garden. How did she die?
|
|
|
Post by joanna on Jan 25, 2020 18:45:44 GMT -5
Grant . I've come to understand that we have to acquire a level of introspection to believe that "life is great". It takes only a little insight into the lives of disabled and other vulnerable persons and the suffering of non-human animals in our vicinity to know that life is not at all great for too many. Then travelling further afield, as you mentioned - you would not want to live in many places where there's suffering.... so maybe it is selfish to think life is great or simply a matter of self-survival?
|
|