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Post by nathan on Jul 8, 2019 23:46:22 GMT -5
Welcome! Thanks so much for introducing yourself here. William Irvine's hatred of clergy and other churches continues its legacy in the 2x2 group also - they are still unable to accept other Christians as fellow believers in their meetings. Thank you. You tying the 2x2's as fellow believers brings up something I spend too much time thinking about. I still have a lot to learn about the 2x2's but I know there are significant differences between them and the Omega Message. But I often think about the eternity of those who WI has ruined. For us, we do believe in God (as in the Father). They so strongly believe they are doing right by God by believing in his prophet, William Irvine. But their salvation is tied up in him. You are only worthy based on how strong your belief is in him. Not Jesus. Like I said in another post, Jesus was pretty minor in our beliefs cause we only concentrated on how the religious people killed him. It wasn't until I was recently looking back on some of WI's letters that I saw how much he referenced Jesus. I never saw that before. But it was never in the gospel way. It was in the end of the world judgement terms. But our focus was only on William Irvine. No one had pictures of Jesus in their house, but everyone has a picture or two of WI. The only ones that were important were God (the Father) and William Irvine. Anyway, I'm getting on a rabbit trail. But there is still no admission of sin. No one cares about it. There's no repentance cause it doesn't matter. So that big huge part of admitting you are a sinner and you need Jesus's forgiveness is missing. That is the part that kills me. This is where WI took and destroyed so many lives. And people who believe in the Message admit they don't know if they are saved or not. They won't know. I always hope that their belief in God is enough. I hope that He has mercy on those who have been deceived. I have a lot of anger about William Irvine for a lot of things. But that one is hard to forgive. Like I wrote You Omega people KNEW a different William Irvine than the early 2x2 workers and the friends. The William Irvine that they KNEW, had the right gospel message when they met him in 1897-1914. John Long's (an ex-2x2 worker) Journal in 1899 wrote:
William Irvine's Doctrines & Leaderships: "Concerning the principals of the Doctrine of Christ, he [Wm Irvine] was sound. He believed in the fall of man, in the Atonement, in the Trinity, in the Divinity of our Lord, in the immortality of the soul, in the resurrection of the body, the inspiration of the Bible, in Heaven for the saved, and in Hell for the lost. He believed in a personal Devil, the enemy of God and man. He believed and taught Repentance and that every person can be saved and know it, and that the conditions of Salvation were "If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Romans 10:9.
He taught that every saved soul is indwelt by the Spirit of Christ; and that the life of Jesus, is the pattern for everyone to imitate and follow; and that the life of forsaking all for Christ's sake was the best to live. The fruits of that teaching resulted in farmers, shop keepers, domestic servants, school teachers, police, soldiers, and persons of every occupation forsaking all that they had to follow Jesus; and to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom of God." "In either secular or religious matters, he was a born leader of men; he was a holy man, and practical. In personal dealing, he was preeminently the best conversationalist I ever met, and skillful in soul winning. He had a marvelous insight into the deep things of God's word, and like his Master, was an apt teacher of all who received the truth with pleasure. He always set forth the cross, and was a swift witness against all pride, vainglory and hypocrisy; he was severe on Christians, but merciful to sinners. In prayer, praise, and preaching he excelled in joy, liberty, and power. He was very much opposed and misunderstood by religious people; nevertheless, the common people liked him and heard him gladly." (From: John Long's Journal) If you Omega people had met William Irvine in 1987-1910... You would have heard a different gospel that he preached and believed.... It seemed AFTER he left the 2x2 ministry, he became a different kind of preacher, he was into prophecies, the end time teachings to his NEW followers, and his eyes got off Jesus completely.
Most of the early 2x2 workers and friends appreciate and respect the gospel that he brought them in the early days! but their Faith was in Jesus NOT in William Irvine. When WI left the ministry only a small numbers of the friends and some workers might have gone with him but majority of the group kept their eyes on Jesus... and they still do today after WI had left the 2x2 group in 1917. Majority of the 2x2 in those days respect WI but they did NOT and still don't worship him.
A lot of what WI taught in the early days are found in the teachings of Jesus gospels, and in the apostles epistles. So, WI went off the tracks, the 2x2 kept their eyes focus on Jesus and his teachings even to this day... Somehow, the current workers lost the understanding the Deity of Christ is God, who lived in the person of Jesus. Christ is NOT God the Father, but the Second person of the Godhead and they don't understand that teaching anymore! However, William Irvine and many of early 2x2 workers preached and taught the Trinity, Christ is God/the Son NOT God the Father.
The current 2x2 workers and friends believe the word God refers ONLY to God the Father and NOT the Son. Jesus refers as the Son of God and NOT God. The overseers workers in different countries deleted/removed phrases in our hymns books from Christ is God to Christ is the Lord... to a lesser god than the Father.... But majority of the 2x2s hold on most of the doctrines of the early 2x2 workers, The 2x2 Itinerant workers/preachers without homes, and the Churches/worship gathering in the homes of believers, conventions... but gospel meetings can be anywhere and most places. No tithing but free will offerings. No salary for the preachers, freewill donation by believers/followers. The 2x2 do NOT believe in Pentecostal Jibberish tongue but in KNOWN languages of today practices in their worship gathering.
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Post by withlove on Jul 9, 2019 8:14:59 GMT -5
Welcome, cb. Fascinating to hear from you, and am curious to hear more. Is marriage to outsiders common? Is it considered one of the "wicked" acts, as opposed to the sins that God overlooks? Could you give a rough estimate of the married, un-married, and married-to-outsiders within the group? 150 is such a small number for finding spouses. Hi, So marriage was supposed to be only to other believers. Problem is, as you figured out, that is pretty difficult. I never even knew of 150! In fact, in just answering someone else's comment, I figured throughout my entire life, I knew of 23. Wi's Omega message has pretty much died out. There was so few known when I was growing up that I actually had no options for that to happen. I knew no single people who believed other than my first cousins. My parents and other family who believed kind of skipped a generation having us later in life, because having children was strongly discouraged. So there was no one else by then. Those who had kids when we visited were already out and married by the time we would have met them. So in that generation, say now in their 60's, I only know of one who married within. There was just no options. And that may have led to the demise of this belief as the new spouses thought it was crazy and did not convert. I never heard of even a single person converting to believing in William Irvine in my entire life. Of my first cousins who are the only ones in my age range within even a 20 year range, only one has married and they are the only one I know of for sure who has left the message. I'm pretty sure all but one have, but nothing has been said. Thank you for explaining all this! I can't imagine how that would feel to know there absolutely were no options, and wouldn't be in the future. Although, did believing that the "period of grace" was over...did that help? Do you think people felt like marriage was less important or less wished for? Sorry if this is too personal. I'm so curious, but don't need answers.
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Post by CherieKropp on Jul 9, 2019 8:24:48 GMT -5
Were you/your family constantly looking for John to return (Rev. 11) as one of the two witnesses (Irvine being the other)?
Did you/your family read current world events trying to find evidence of Rev 11 happening soon?
Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. 5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. 6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. 7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. 9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. 10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. 11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. I'm wondering if your experience was similar to that of Ex-Omega Person Lew Fountain who wrote:
While Irvine was alive, his Omega followers lived in fearful uncertainty about the future. Lew called it "The Everlasting Frenzy." It was though the Day of God's Wrath was arriving next week or next month. Lew affirmed, "Irvine kept it at fever pitch. It was going to happen soon. 'The first WOE has sounded—the second and the third are about to … The days of trimming our lamps is over and the great judgment is about to begin,' and on it went. The squirrel wheel that never stopped turning" (to Dear Friends, July 5, 1998, TTT).
His Followers looked for the Apostle John to return at any moment. They wrote, "How near to John's arrival we are … Every tick of the clock brings John nearer … we were in hope that John might come at Easter. "Only a few more days to Armistice, and we have felt for a long time that we can't plan far ahead."
November 11, 1918, was Armistice Day—the day World War I ended. The anniversary date of November 11 figured prominently in Irvine's prophecies. Irvine looked forward to November 11 each year with great anticipation. He wrote, "the three woes. The first of which began at the Armistice and is still going on all over the world, as outlined in Revelation 9:1–12" (to Skerritts, Sept. 3, 1922, TTT). "Is this the great day we have been looking forward to so long?" (to Dunbars, Nov. 11, 1936, TTT). Fountain wrote, "My Mother was always holding her breath or expecting some great thing to happen when November 11th rolled around."
Some chose not to have children, because Irvine expressed a very dim view of marriage and family life, "Sons of God and fair women and nice families, eating, drinking, marrying and giving in marriage is all vanity and dust. God wants a family with His name and nature, and all short of that only ends in dust to dust" (Dec. 27, 1944, to Pincetl, TTT). He expected very hard times to arrive shortly, including a worldwide famine and drought, and thought it best that children did not endure the suffering. Therefore, his followers did not multiply significantly and have nearly all died out. Most Omega followers did not seek higher education or provide for their old age.
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cb
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Post by cb on Jul 9, 2019 23:36:40 GMT -5
Hi, So marriage was supposed to be only to other believers. Problem is, as you figured out, that is pretty difficult. I never even knew of 150! In fact, in just answering someone else's comment, I figured throughout my entire life, I knew of 23. Wi's Omega message has pretty much died out. There was so few known when I was growing up that I actually had no options for that to happen. I knew no single people who believed other than my first cousins. My parents and other family who believed kind of skipped a generation having us later in life, because having children was strongly discouraged. So there was no one else by then. Those who had kids when we visited were already out and married by the time we would have met them. So in that generation, say now in their 60's, I only know of one who married within. There was just no options. And that may have led to the demise of this belief as the new spouses thought it was crazy and did not convert. I never heard of even a single person converting to believing in William Irvine in my entire life. Of my first cousins who are the only ones in my age range within even a 20 year range, only one has married and they are the only one I know of for sure who has left the message. I'm pretty sure all but one have, but nothing has been said. Thank you for explaining all this! I can't imagine how that would feel to know there absolutely were no options, and wouldn't be in the future. Although, did believing that the "period of grace" was over...did that help? Do you think people felt like marriage was less important or less wished for? Sorry if this is too personal. I'm so curious, but don't need answers. No problem answering questions. So are you saying since sin was irrelevant did it not matter as much not to marry within? If that is what you are asking, I think you could be right. I didn't think much about it honestly. But by the time I got married or was even of the age to really consider it, I was already distancing myself from the message. I'm not sure who came up with that "rule" anyway. I'm not sure WI ever said it. I think it was just expected for logical reasons. Certainly getting married to someone who doesn't believe the same way causes problems. How would you raise your kids, etc? People do it all the time in other religions but I'm sure it makes for tension. I wasn't shunned for it or anything. However, probably the biggest concern other than how you would raise your kids would be making sure you could walk away from your marriage when the time came. We weren't supposed to get so close to ANYBODY that we couldn't leave, so again that could potentially be a concern. I honestly don't know about others views on marriage. It wasn't important to me. I certainly never wished for it. It just kinda happened. However, looking at my cousins who did not marry, there very well may be something to that.
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Post by withlove on Jul 9, 2019 23:43:53 GMT -5
I meant if what Cherie quoted Irvine as saying, "the great day we have been looking forward to so long," would have loomed so large and been so looked forward to that the members would have had less interest in finding partners.
So interesting.
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cb
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Post by cb on Jul 9, 2019 23:57:10 GMT -5
Were you/your family constantly looking for John to return (Rev. 11) as one of the two witnesses (Irvine being the other)?
Did you/your family read current world events trying to find evidence of Rev 11 happening soon?
Rev 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. 5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. 6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. 7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. 9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. 10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. 11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. I'm wondering if your experience was similar to that of Ex-Omega Person Lew Fountain who wrote: While Irvine was alive, his Omega followers lived in fearful uncertainty about the future. Lew called it "The Everlasting Frenzy." It was though the Day of God's Wrath was arriving next week or next month. Lew affirmed, "Irvine kept it at fever pitch. It was going to happen soon. 'The first WOE has sounded—the second and the third are about to … The days of trimming our lamps is over and the great judgment is about to begin,' and on it went. The squirrel wheel that never stopped turning" (to Dear Friends, July 5, 1998, TTT). His Followers looked for the Apostle John to return at any moment. They wrote, "How near to John's arrival we are … Every tick of the clock brings John nearer … we were in hope that John might come at Easter. "Only a few more days to Armistice, and we have felt for a long time that we can't plan far ahead." November 11, 1918, was Armistice Day—the day World War I ended. The anniversary date of November 11 figured prominently in Irvine's prophecies. Irvine looked forward to November 11 each year with great anticipation. He wrote, "the three woes. The first of which began at the Armistice and is still going on all over the world, as outlined in Revelation 9:1–12" (to Skerritts, Sept. 3, 1922, TTT). "Is this the great day we have been looking forward to so long?" (to Dunbars, Nov. 11, 1936, TTT). Fountain wrote, "My Mother was always holding her breath or expecting some great thing to happen when November 11th rolled around." Some chose not to have children, because Irvine expressed a very dim view of marriage and family life, "Sons of God and fair women and nice families, eating, drinking, marrying and giving in marriage is all vanity and dust. God wants a family with His name and nature, and all short of that only ends in dust to dust" (Dec. 27, 1944, to Pincetl, TTT). He expected very hard times to arrive shortly, including a worldwide famine and drought, and thought it best that children did not endure the suffering. Therefore, his followers did not multiply significantly and have nearly all died out. Most Omega followers did not seek higher education or provide for their old age. YES!!!! That is the lives of those that believe in William Irvine's Omega Message! ALL THE TIME, we thought whatever was happening in the news was it. It all pointed to whatever parts he would write in his letters showing how things would play out. They just never did. And yes, we were always waiting for John to come. And we read Revelation 11 all the time! I'm not sure I've read it in all these years since walking away but it's just as fresh as it was then. This is what they blame churches and Christians for. They will be the ones responsible for WI and Johns death. And always these Woe's....same thing, we read these letters all the time. And maybe this last paragraph you wrote would explain better to withlove 's question. I'm not sure how to tag them. But I do know that it was very discouraged to have children. I didn't know that it was because he thought it best that children didn't endure the suffering. I thought it was because children would make the lives of the parents so much worse. That end times were so close that we would just make it difficult. And it is true, I believe it caused the Message to die out. Course he probably never thought about that cause time was never supposed to still be going.
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cb
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Post by cb on Jul 10, 2019 0:00:46 GMT -5
I meant if what Cherie quoted Irvine as saying, "the great day we have been looking forward to so long," would have loomed so large and been so looked forward to that the members would have had less interest in finding partners. So interesting. Oh, I see. I think that is a very valid point. And you are right, when you are expecting the end to be any minute, then there isn't much excitement to plan for.
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Post by withlove on Jul 10, 2019 0:03:55 GMT -5
I meant if what Cherie quoted Irvine as saying, "the great day we have been looking forward to so long," would have loomed so large and been so looked forward to that the members would have had less interest in finding partners. So interesting. Oh, I see. I think that is a very valid point. And you are right, when you are expecting the end to be any minute, then there isn't much excitement to plan for. Glad you moved on from that! And the tag worked, btw. Thanks!
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Post by withlove on Jul 10, 2019 0:07:08 GMT -5
I meant if what Cherie quoted Irvine as saying, "the great day we have been looking forward to so long," would have loomed so large and been so looked forward to that the members would have had less interest in finding partners. So interesting. Oh, I see. I think that is a very valid point. And you are right, when you are expecting the end to be any minute, then there isn't much excitement to plan for. Also--sorry--I meant to frame that as a question, not a point. Didn't mean to be making observations about something I don't know at all!
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cb
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Post by cb on Jul 10, 2019 0:15:58 GMT -5
withlove, I didn't think anything of it.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 19, 2019 1:09:53 GMT -5
Hi, I am new to the boards. I am from the no named Omega message branch of . The last one he started after leaving the 2x2's. I have learned so much from this site as I had never heard of the 2x2's before or anything else really except for our super small world. Reading Cherie's summary of the Omega Message and the fact sheet of the three sects ( 2x2, Cooneyites, and Omega Message), it pretty much sums it up. There are some differences in my experience that I will share here. We never learned about the Age of Grace (forgiveness of sins) ending in 1914. We learned that that is the time the Omega Message started and the time of the end had come, hence the only study being done in Revelation. I had never heard about the forgiveness of sins, then or ever. We were taught that salvation was only through William Irvine. Jesus was not really a big part of our beliefs. All I really knew about him was that he was the son of God (literally, not in the trinity sense). And that the religious people killed him. And that is why we hate church people so much. They are all the same and they will be the ones who kill William Irvine and John when they come back during the tribulation. Churches and anyone affiliated are of Satan. While true, the religious people of the time did kill Jesus, it was part of God's plan for one, and second, the churches of today have nothing to do with that. The Christian churches of today were started in Acts as a way of worshiping, learning, and spreading the news about Jesus. The only part of the Bible we read (King James only) was Revelation and the small parts of the Gospels that tell of the religious people killing Jesus. I had no knowledge of Adam and Eve and the fall of man. Though we never talked about sin, we were told that the world was and had fallen apart as a result of Pilate freeing Barabas instead of Jesus. That is when evil entered the world. But there was no need for forgiveness of sins cause there was no belief that Jesus died for it and he was irrelevant in our eternity. The only thing that mattered was how strong our faith was in William Irvine. Which was pretty scary. For one, growing up in this and being young, reading WI's letters and the King James bible weren't too easy to understand. I hardly understand WI's letters now. But heaven forbid you ask questions. Maybe if it is to further understand but if you have any doubt or need clarification in that direction then your faith is like a weed or something like that. I have forgotten the threat now, but basically if you have any doubt at all, you aren't going to be worthy and you will be destroyed along with everyone else. I remember being in a church for a funeral as a kid. I was terrified for even being there. Then they prayed. I was begging and pleading with God not to strike me down and kill me right then and there for even being present while they did that. I was crying out inside asking him to forgive me for being there and assure him I wasn't praying and to please not kill me. There was always so much fear and anxiety. I always figured I would never be considered worthy so I just begged he'd let me die before I was 12 so I wouldn't have to go through that end of the world devastation. Funny thing is as I write this, I realize how much I was talking to God. Prayer was not allowed, at least not in front of anyone. Nor were you to talk about praying if you did pray, even if it was alone. Praying out-loud was religious, therefore of the devil.
And of course, the end of the world was coming anytime. We always had to be ready. We were taught not to get to close to people nor involved in human things so we would have no problem leaving. Really the getting involved in human things was separate. Not just so we could leave. So there were no after school activities, no sleepovers or birthday parties. Only with close family. Then we spent them reading the book of letters. Yay! We didn't celebrate religious holidays. We usually got together for Christmas and had dinner and read the book of letters. But there was no exchanging of gifts, trees, lights, etc. No easter bunny. But we did celebrate Halloween!
But back to the end of the world and his false predictions. So, I didn't even realize how many times WI falsely predicted the end of the world till reading on the Telling the Truth website. Then I went back in my letters and read them and sure enough, he was wrong every time. It also was never talked about how he thought he was going to be alive at the end of the world. He wasn't supposed to die a human death from throat cancer or whatever it was. He was supposed to be here when John came back. Oh, so WI believed he was the reader of Revelation. Revelation talks about a reader and writer. So John was the writer and William Irvine was the reader. He was The Only one who could interpret Revelation. So that is why it was to be him and John that came back as the two witnesses that would be killed and lie in the streets for 3 1/2 days before rising to heaven. I did point this out to a current Omega Message follower, his false prophecies and how that makes him a false prophet according to GOD and the bible. Their rebuttal was that WI stated he was only human and therefore got over eager sometimes and interpreted God wrong. As he got older and further along, he got a better understanding of what God was showing him. Funny, cause God says that would never happen. If someone claimed to be a prophet and their prophecy did not come to pass, he was a false prophet. Anyway, I could go on and on. I hope that if any questioning or ex-Omega people read this, they will find they are not alone. Being that we did not officially meet anywhere or have a real organization, it was a very very small world. I knew maybe a dozen or two growing up. Mainly just family and a few people that we would stop in and visit if we went on vacation. Read some letters and that was it. Thanks to Cherie's extensive research and including us on her site, there is hope of others finding out there's a few of us out here. If you have any questions, ask away. Thanks for inviting me here. THANKS for that most interesting narrative of your own experience with what appears to be yet one more branch of Wm. Irvin and his companions teachings.
The web of superstition and fantasy that religion has woven,- be it 2x2's or any other brand , -is and has always been the bane that has hampered the development of a kinder and more loving humanity.
It wins the number #1 trophy, hands down, above all others in dividing people against one another.
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Post by Dennis J on Jul 19, 2019 5:19:17 GMT -5
Dog, have missed you and your comments, are you OK?
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Post by maryhig on Aug 19, 2019 3:38:29 GMT -5
Hi, I am new to the boards. I am from the no named Omega message branch of William Irvine. The last one he started after leaving the 2x2's. I have learned so much from this site as I had never heard of the 2x2's before or anything else really except for our super small world. Reading Cherie's summary of the Omega Message and the fact sheet of the three sects ( 2x2, Cooneyites, and Omega Message), it pretty much sums it up. There are some differences in my experience that I will share here. We never learned about the Age of Grace (forgiveness of sins) ending in 1914. We learned that that is the time the Omega Message started and the time of the end had come, hence the only study being done in Revelation. I had never heard about the forgiveness of sins, then or ever. We were taught that salvation was only through William Irvine. Jesus was not really a big part of our beliefs. All I really knew about him was that he was the son of God (literally, not in the trinity sense). And that the religious people killed him. And that is why we hate church people so much. They are all the same and they will be the ones who kill William Irvine and John when they come back during the tribulation. Churches and anyone affiliated are of Satan. While true, the religious people of the time did kill Jesus, it was part of God's plan for one, and second, the churches of today have nothing to do with that. The Christian churches of today were started in Acts as a way of worshiping, learning, and spreading the news about Jesus. The only part of the Bible we read (King James only) was Revelation and the small parts of the Gospels that tell of the religious people killing Jesus. I had no knowledge of Adam and Eve and the fall of man. Though we never talked about sin, we were told that the world was and had fallen apart as a result of Pilate freeing Barabas instead of Jesus. That is when evil entered the world. But there was no need for forgiveness of sins cause there was no belief that Jesus died for it and he was irrelevant in our eternity. The only thing that mattered was how strong our faith was in William Irvine. Which was pretty scary. For one, growing up in this and being young, reading WI's letters and the King James bible weren't too easy to understand. I hardly understand WI's letters now. But heaven forbid you ask questions. Maybe if it is to further understand but if you have any doubt or need clarification in that direction then your faith is like a weed or something like that. I have forgotten the threat now, but basically if you have any doubt at all, you aren't going to be worthy and you will be destroyed along with everyone else. I remember being in a church for a funeral as a kid. I was terrified for even being there. Then they prayed. I was begging and pleading with God not to strike me down and kill me right then and there for even being present while they did that. I was crying out inside asking him to forgive me for being there and assure him I wasn't praying and to please not kill me. There was always so much fear and anxiety. I always figured I would never be considered worthy so I just begged he'd let me die before I was 12 so I wouldn't have to go through that end of the world devastation. Funny thing is as I write this, I realize how much I was talking to God. Prayer was not allowed, at least not in front of anyone. Nor were you to talk about praying if you did pray, even if it was alone. Praying out-loud was religious, therefore of the devil.
And of course, the end of the world was coming anytime. We always had to be ready. We were taught not to get to close to people nor involved in human things so we would have no problem leaving. Really the getting involved in human things was separate. Not just so we could leave. So there were no after school activities, no sleepovers or birthday parties. Only with close family. Then we spent them reading the book of letters. Yay! We didn't celebrate religious holidays. We usually got together for Christmas and had dinner and read the book of letters. But there was no exchanging of gifts, trees, lights, etc. No easter bunny. But we did celebrate Halloween!
But back to the end of the world and his false predictions. So, I didn't even realize how many times WI falsely predicted the end of the world till reading on the Telling the Truth website. Then I went back in my letters and read them and sure enough, he was wrong every time. It also was never talked about how he thought he was going to be alive at the end of the world. He wasn't supposed to die a human death from throat cancer or whatever it was. He was supposed to be here when John came back. Oh, so WI believed he was the reader of Revelation. Revelation talks about a reader and writer. So John was the writer and William Irvine was the reader. He was The Only one who could interpret Revelation. So that is why it was to be him and John that came back as the two witnesses that would be killed and lie in the streets for 3 1/2 days before rising to heaven. I did point this out to a current Omega Message follower, his false prophecies and how that makes him a false prophet according to GOD and the bible. Their rebuttal was that WI stated he was only human and therefore got over eager sometimes and interpreted God wrong. As he got older and further along, he got a better understanding of what God was showing him. Funny, cause God says that would never happen. If someone claimed to be a prophet and their prophecy did not come to pass, he was a false prophet. Anyway, I could go on and on. I hope that if any questioning or ex-Omega people read this, they will find they are not alone. Being that we did not officially meet anywhere or have a real organization, it was a very very small world. I knew maybe a dozen or two growing up. Mainly just family and a few people that we would stop in and visit if we went on vacation. Read some letters and that was it. Thanks to Cherie's extensive research and including us on her site, there is hope of others finding out there's a few of us out here. If you have any questions, ask away. Thanks for inviting me here. Hi, I'm Mary, we to have house meetings but our meetings are focused on God and Christ Jesus, and we read all of the Bible. We don't believe that salvation is though anyone else but Jesus. He is the way the truth and the life. His the way is the way, the way he teaches and the way he lived is the only way back to the father and those who truly follow him follow him in word and deed, Jesus is our example to follow. There is no religion that reconciles us to the father. No denomination is fully right they all have man made add ons. But that doesn't mean all the people are hell bound. God looks at the heart and only he can judge every one of us. I just believe the way Jesus taught, he says follow me, not follow a certain denomination. So I follow him and live according to the way he taught and showed us to. James said that true and undefiled religion before God the father is this, to visit the fatherless and the widows in their affliction and to remain unspotted to the world. And that is what we do when we truly love God with all our hearts, because if we truly love God with our all, we will remain unspotted from the world as we turn from sin and live by his will, and if we help and visit those we see in need, then we are loving our neighbour as ourselves. And these are the two greatest commandments that we should live by and in doing so, we truly follow Jesus.
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Post by kenco69 on Aug 25, 2019 17:53:01 GMT -5
professing.proboards.com/user/2638Hi Just wondering are you an ex 2x2 not that it makes any difference. Do you have a ministry and are you in Ireland as your believes are similar to mine Do you meet every Sunday and what form does your meeting take. Do yo gather round and partake of the emblems. Sorry for all the questions but I once was a 2x2 Kenco69
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Post by snow on Aug 26, 2019 18:25:46 GMT -5
professing.proboards.com/user/2638Hi Just wondering are you an ex 2x2 not that it makes any difference. Do you have a ministry and are you in Ireland as your believes are similar to mine Do you meet every Sunday and what form does your meeting take. Do yo gather round and partake of the emblems. Sorry for all the questions but I once was a 2x2 Kenco69 Maryhig isn't on here a lot but she is a Cooneyite I believe. They do have similar meetings to the 2x2 I think if I remember what she has told us correctly. She does have some slightly different perspectives on the bible from the 2x2's and some of the more traditional Christian Churches. Edward Cooney was excommunicated from the 2x2's I believe.
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Post by maryhig on Aug 29, 2019 6:22:51 GMT -5
professing.proboards.com/user/2638Hi Just wondering are you an ex 2x2 not that it makes any difference. Do you have a ministry and are you in Ireland as your believes are similar to mine Do you meet every Sunday and what form does your meeting take. Do yo gather round and partake of the emblems. Sorry for all the questions but I once was a 2x2 Kenco69 Hello, sorry I've just seen your post. No I'm not a 2x2, we are known as "cooneyites" because we have meetings that were started by Edward Cooney, but we are followers of Jesus Christ, and all emphasis in our meetings is on God the father and Christ Jesus and the teachings of Jesus and his apostles. We also read all of the Bible, old and new testaments in our meetings. We don't have workers as such, we all are workers and do the works of God, we are only servants and we are all equal and we read mainly the KJV Bible. I'm not in Ireland but many of my family are from there. I'm in Wales. We have a meeting on a Sunday morning and 3 evenings a week for whomsoever can attend. Any questions please ask.
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