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Post by openingact34 on Apr 28, 2019 13:26:20 GMT -5
TMB used to have a lot of entertaining lists. I miss the lists. So let's consider a few questions: - Who would you rank as the 10 most hated enemies of The Truth (from the 2x2's perspective), and in what order?
- Will anyone ever surpass Doug Parker?
- How high up the list does Ross Bowden climb thanks to his performance on 60 Minutes?
Here's my list: 1. Doug and Helen Parker – authors of The Secret Sect, the historical expose that decimated the 2x2 membership from starting in the 1980s. Even in 2000 I was still hearing shrill, panicked sermons to burn books without reading them. 2. William Trimble – The editor of The Impartial Reporter was a fierce critic of Irvine, Cooney, and the other Friends and Workers. In documenting the history of the Truth's founding, he loaded the bullets that Doug Parker fired half a century later. 3. Cherie Kropp - She employed the internet to make the historical facts about the 2x2 origins available to the entire planet. Deeply despised by professing people everywhere. Undisputed #1 among the living members on this list. 4. Edward Cooney – After being excommunicated, his splinter sect was a thorn in the side of Jack Carroll, Wilson Reid and others who took over the Truth. They sent letters worldwide attacking his character. The hymns he authored were stolen, and are still used today with his name erased from them. 5. Rupert and Claude McHenry – Brothers who were a living nightmare for the workers with their protests and investigations. The overseers tried to coerce family members into lying about them to get them arrested or institutionalized 6. Jean Austin- her powerful and heartwrenching story of CSA brought down one of the Truth's most beloved overseers, and opened a floodgate of additional people coming forward 7. Ross Bowden – His interview on the 2019 Sixty Minutes Australia episode is quickly becoming legendary. Using the 2x2's most hated form of media, the television, was especially acrid 8. Dale and Marlene Jordan – They recorded their excommunication by the Alberta staff, and shared it with the world. The behavior of the workers was applauded by many of the faithful, but shocking and appalling to others. 9. Nguyễn Thanh Hoa – Badly underestimated by the western overseers, he took half a country worth of Friends with him, and restarted a better version of the religion 10. William Irvine – Yes, the founder. His existence is very inconvenient for the narrative that professing people are ordered to believe. It is hard to rank him higher because so many 2x2's are still in the dark, and because he faded into obscurity instead of causing any real problems after being put out of fellowship by George Walker and company. Honorable Mentions:
Elizabeth Coleman Brad Lewis Scott Ross Nguyễn Thị Minh Thanh Jeanie and Sam Dudley Edgar Massey |
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Post by speak on Apr 28, 2019 18:05:24 GMT -5
TMB used to have a lot of entertaining lists. I miss the lists. So let's consider a few questions: - Who would you rank as the 10 most hated enemies of The Truth (from the 2x2's perspective), and in what order?
- Will anyone ever surpass Doug Parker?
- How high up the list does Ross Bowden climb thanks to his performance on 60 Minutes?
Here's my list: 1. Doug and Helen Parker – authors of The Secret Sect, the historical expose that decimated the 2x2 membership from starting in the 1980s. Even in 2000 I was still hearing shrill, panicked sermons to burn books without reading them. 2. William Trimble – The editor of The Impartial Reporter was a fierce critic of Irvine, Cooney, and the other Friends and Workers. In documenting the history of the Truth's founding, he loaded the bullets that Doug Parker fired half a century later. 3. Cherie Kropp - She employed the internet to make the historical facts about the 2x2 origins available to the entire planet. Deeply despised by professing people everywhere. Undisputed #1 among the living members on this list. 4. Edward Cooney – After being excommunicated, his splinter sect was a thorn in the side of Jack Carroll, Wilson Reid and others who took over the Truth. They sent letters worldwide attacking his character. The hymns he authored were stolen, and are still used today with his name erased from them. 5. Rupert and Claude McHenry – Brothers who were a living nightmare for the workers with their protests and investigations. The overseers tried to coerce family members into lying about them to get them arrested or institutionalized 6. Jean Austin- her powerful and heartwrenching story of CSA brought down one of the Truth's most beloved overseers, and opened a floodgate of additional people coming forward 7. Ross Bowden – His interview on the 2019 Sixty Minutes Australia episode is quickly becoming legendary. Using the 2x2's most hated form of media, the television, was especially acrid 8. Dale and Marlene Jordan – They recorded their excommunication by the Alberta staff, and shared it with the world. The behavior of the workers was applauded by many of the faithful, but shocking and appalling to others. 9. Nguyễn Thanh Hoa – Badly underestimated by the western overseers, he took half a country worth of Friends with him, and restarted a better version of the religion 10. William Irvine – Yes, the founder. His existence is very inconvenient for the narrative that professing people are ordered to believe. It is hard to rank him higher because so many 2x2's are still in the dark, and because he faded into obscurity instead of causing any real problems after being put out of fellowship by George Walker and company. Honorable Mentions:
Elizabeth Coleman Brad Lewis Scott Ross Nguyễn Thị Minh Thanh Jeanie and Sam Dudley Edgar Massey How are they hated? I wonder how could we pray for them if we hated them? |
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 28, 2019 18:30:18 GMT -5
TMB used to have a lot of entertaining lists. I miss the lists. So let's consider a few questions: - Who would you rank as the 10 most hated enemies of The Truth (from the 2x2's perspective), and in what order?
- Will anyone ever surpass Doug Parker?
- How high up the list does Ross Bowden climb thanks to his performance on 60 Minutes?
Here's my list: 1. Doug and Helen Parker – authors of The Secret Sect, the historical expose that decimated the 2x2 membership from starting in the 1980s. Even in 2000 I was still hearing shrill, panicked sermons to burn books without reading them. 2. William Trimble – The editor of The Impartial Reporter was a fierce critic of Irvine, Cooney, and the other Friends and Workers. In documenting the history of the Truth's founding, he loaded the bullets that Doug Parker fired half a century later. 3. Cherie Kropp - She employed the internet to make the historical facts about the 2x2 origins available to the entire planet. Deeply despised by professing people everywhere. Undisputed #1 among the living members on this list. 4. Edward Cooney – After being excommunicated, his splinter sect was a thorn in the side of Jack Carroll, Wilson Reid and others who took over the Truth. They sent letters worldwide attacking his character. The hymns he authored were stolen, and are still used today with his name erased from them. 5. Rupert and Claude McHenry – Brothers who were a living nightmare for the workers with their protests and investigations. The overseers tried to coerce family members into lying about them to get them arrested or institutionalized 6. Jean Austin- her powerful and heartwrenching story of CSA brought down one of the Truth's most beloved overseers, and opened a floodgate of additional people coming forward 7. Ross Bowden – His interview on the 2019 Sixty Minutes Australia episode is quickly becoming legendary. Using the 2x2's most hated form of media, the television, was especially acrid 8. Dale and Marlene Jordan – They recorded their excommunication by the Alberta staff, and shared it with the world. The behavior of the workers was applauded by many of the faithful, but shocking and appalling to others. 9. Nguyễn Thanh Hoa – Badly underestimated by the western overseers, he took half a country worth of Friends with him, and restarted a better version of the religion 10. William Irvine – Yes, the founder. His existence is very inconvenient for the narrative that professing people are ordered to believe. It is hard to rank him higher because so many 2x2's are still in the dark, and because he faded into obscurity instead of causing any real problems after being put out of fellowship by George Walker and company. Honorable Mentions:
Elizabeth Coleman Brad Lewis Scott Ross Nguyễn Thị Minh Thanh Jeanie and Sam Dudley Edgar Massey How are they hated? I wonder how could we pray for them if we hated them? Have you not been listening? Ask Wally and Nathan why my name isn't on the list. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 18:36:56 GMT -5
How are they hated? I wonder how could we pray for them if we hated them? Have you not been listening? Ask Wally and Nathan why my name isn't on the list. i think you should ask openingact34 why your name isn't on the list...neither nathan or I came up with a hate list here or anywhere for that matter... |
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Post by nathan on Apr 28, 2019 18:39:53 GMT -5
God KNOWS people hearts and their motives for doing all these things. According to them, they are doing God's works.
Well, God will be their Judge because HE KNOWS ALL sides and about people hearts and motives. I would NOT want to be in their shoes in the DAY of Judgment, to find out they had been fighting against God just like the RCC has been doing it against God's truth, way and people on the earth for almost 2000 yrs.
Saul persecuted and killed God's people, he believed he was doing God's will by eliminate Jesus followers from the face of the earth.
Jesus had mercy on Saul and appeared to him in His glorious God formed and opened His understanding and he REPENTED from his sins.
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 28, 2019 18:42:53 GMT -5
Have you not been listening? Ask Wally and Nathan why my name isn't on the list. i think you should ask openingact34 why your name isn't on the list...neither nathan or I came up with a hate list here or anywhere for that matter... After parsing your answer . . . should I be comforted?  |
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Post by BobWilliston on Apr 28, 2019 18:45:16 GMT -5
God KNOWS people hearts and their motives for doing all these things. According to them, they are doing God's works. Well, God will be their Judge because HE KNOWS ALL sides and about people hearts and motives. I would NOT want to be in their shoes to in the DAY of Judgment, to find out they had been fighting against God just like the RCC has been doing it against God's truth, way and people on the earth for almost 2000 yrs. Soooo . . . should I take some solace from this? |
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Post by joanna on Apr 28, 2019 18:48:31 GMT -5
I have known many 2x2 people and on some occasions, noted how they reacted to external and negative responses.
I am only aware of the attitudes and behaviour of a few on the '10 most wanted list & honorable mentions' but the energy, commitment and passion of those few is in great contrast to the responses of the 2x2 ppl to those who left and remained pre-occupied with the 2x2grp.
The 2x2 responses i have observed seem more akin to a sadness for those who who are writing books or being interviewed to expose the 2x2 grp. They appeared to believe that such actions were fulfilling scripture. That seems to be a generic default position adopted by most christians regardless of their biblical interpretation and resultant organisational allegiance.
Am unsure whether 'hatred' is too severe a term, but the motivation to critique the 2x2's by Cherie Kropp et al seems to be driven by strongly negative emotions and a serious intolerance of this christian sect. It may be a type of hatred.
It really is so convoluted and confusing and rather perverse.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 18:50:53 GMT -5
i think you should ask openingact34 why your name isn't on the list...neither nathan or I came up with a hate list here or anywhere for that matter... After parsing your answer . . . should I be comforted? i don't know do you enjoy the idea of being on a hate list? |
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Post by nathan on Apr 28, 2019 18:54:07 GMT -5
God KNOWS people hearts and their motives for doing all these things. According to them, they are doing God's works. Well, God will be their Judge because HE KNOWS ALL sides and about people hearts and motives. I would NOT want to be in their shoes to in the DAY of Judgment, to find out they had been fighting against God just like the RCC has been doing it against God's truth, way and people on the earth for almost 2000 yrs. Soooo . . . should I take some solace from this?
Death seals all choices. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 19:04:54 GMT -5
I think it is a bit strong to call it a hate list. Those people listed are sincere people, and are only expressing concerns because they have been enlightened because of a broader experience they have had in their lives. It is constructive criticism, and there is no harm in that. We can all learn from others, no matter who they are.
And the founder himself William Irvine, came to the conclusion that it was an experiment. And those of us who believe in Science know that the more people that contribute to an experiment, the better end result. So rather than call those people enemies see them as contributors. Maybe the greatest enemy is within the "Truth" Church.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 19:11:16 GMT -5
I think it is a bit strong to call it a hate list. Those people listed are sincere people, and are only expressing concerns because they have been enlightened because of a broader experience they have had in their lives. It is constructive criticism, and there is no harm in that. We can all learn from others, no matter who they are. And the founder himself William Irvine, came to the conclusion that it was an experiment. And those of us who believe in Science know that the more people that contribute to an experiment, the better end result. So rather than call those people enemies see them as contributors. Maybe the greatest enemy is within the "Truth" Church. Top 10 most hated? "here's my list" "TMB used to have a lot of entertaining lists" "i miss the lists" "how high up the list does Ross bowden climb".....do the math |
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Post by joanna on Apr 28, 2019 19:19:36 GMT -5
@redback .
That is true.
In the time i have been involved in this forum, i've learnt more about how religion is a divisive force and how bigotry and hypocrisy feed these divisions.
The predictable and strategic behaviours of people who are defending their own beliefs and deflecting criticism onto others is particularly informing.
This has provided a greater insight into the psychology contributing to religious sectarianism and how dangerous it is.
But what is really concerning, is the number of people who cannot discern that this practice is encouraged by the truth meeting board.
Constructive criticism is fair and objective. The criticism style which prevails on this forum is biased and subjective, and those who criticise seem not to self-reflect and understand that many of the issues they have identified with beliefs they discredit are replicated in their own beliefs.
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Post by openingact34 on Apr 28, 2019 19:33:47 GMT -5
How are they hated? I wonder how could we pray for them if we hated them? Have you not been listening? Ask Wally and Nathan why my name isn't on the list. Top 10 over 120 years is some seriously rarified air. I had to leave off dozens of book authors, protesters, website owners, and others. How high do you think you rank? What does your list look like? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 19:34:25 GMT -5
Maybe Joanna if we just post our experiences, and let others post theirs, TMB may become a better forum. It is well read by those in the "Truth" Church, and some of it may have an impact.
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Post by openingact34 on Apr 28, 2019 19:39:38 GMT -5
Have you not been listening? Ask Wally and Nathan why my name isn't on the list. i think you should ask openingact34 why your name isn't on the list...neither nathan or I came up with a hate list here or anywhere for that matter... Give it a try wally..Don't be a killjoy. NCAA brackets have been busted, and it is a long time till fantasy football. This should be a lot more entertaining than the same tired old TMB debates! You can bet the old time overseers kept enemies lists. And according to Cliff Sims new book, President Trump wrote one out in sharpie marker on the official White House stationary |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 19:45:14 GMT -5
Soooo . . . should I take some solace from this? ** Yes, there is still time to change and REPENT before death comes then it will be too late to change it. Death seals all choices. From what I can figure, Bob’s choices are no worse than the choices you make; the many things you ‘choose to believe’ and espouse on here, & the very obvious difference being he doesn’t threaten with the worn-out old hell and brimstone record. Have you considered changing and repenting of all that stuff workers and friends do not endorse. Before it’s too late? If not, don’t threaten any other soul. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 20:13:54 GMT -5
i think you should ask openingact34 why your name isn't on the list...neither nathan or I came up with a hate list here or anywhere for that matter... Give it a try wally..Don't be a killjoy. NCAA brackets have been busted, and it is a long time till fantasy football. This should be a lot more entertaining than the same tired old TMB debates! You can bet the old time overseers kept enemies lists. And according to Cliff Sims new book, President Trump wrote one out in sharpie marker on the official White House stationary i'm sure those on your list that are still alive appreciate what your doing... |
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Post by Admin on Apr 28, 2019 20:37:42 GMT -5
openingact34 Great list, and nice summaries of each one. Ross has had a mercurial elevation, a fortnight ago I dare say he mightn't have even rated an Honorable Mention. I'm surprised TMB as a whole didn't get a mention (it's been around awhile, it started on 2 April 2003, and we've got at least one member still active who joined on that day). admin
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 21:30:07 GMT -5
That list would only be a hate list for narrow-minded people who see their way as the only way. They may be unwilling to admit that any of their opinions, ideas, or ways of doing things are flawed. A narrow-minded person will stick to his or her guns, even when confronted with opposing facts.
The good "Truth" Church friends that we have do not fall into that category.
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Post by nathan on Apr 28, 2019 21:34:47 GMT -5
openingact34 Great list, and nice summaries of each one. Ross has had a mercurial elevation, a fortnight ago I dare say he mightn't have even rated an Honorable Mention. I'm surprised TMB as a whole didn't get a mention (it's been around awhile, it started on 2 April 2003, and we've got at least one member still active who joined on that day). admin
Openingact wrote: Here's my list:
1. Doug and Helen Parker – authors of The Secret Sect, the historical expose that decimated the 2x2 membership from starting in the 1980s. Even in 2000 I was still hearing shrill, panicked sermons to burn books without reading them.
2. William Trimble – The editor of The Impartial Reporter was a fierce critic of Irvine, Cooney, and the other Friends and Workers. In documenting the history of the Truth's founding, he loaded the bullets that Doug Parker fired half a century later.
3. Cherie Kropp - She employed the internet to make the historical facts about the 2x2 origins available to the entire planet. Deeply despised by professing people everywhere. Undisputed #1 among the living members on this list.
4. Edward Cooney – After being excommunicated, his splinter sect was a thorn in the side of Jack Carroll, Wilson Reid and others who took over the Truth. They sent letters worldwide attacking his character. The hymns he authored were stolen, and are still used today with his name erased from them.
5. Rupert and Claude McHenry – Brothers who were a living nightmare for the workers with their protests and investigations. The overseers tried to coerce family members into lying about them to get them arrested or institutionalized
6. Jean Austin- her powerful and heartwrenching story of CSA brought down one of the Truth's most beloved overseers, and opened a floodgate of additional people coming forward
7. Ross Bowden – His interview on the 2019 Sixty Minutes Australia episode is quickly becoming legendary. Using the 2x2's most hated form of media, the television, was especially acrid
8. Dale and Marlene Jordan – They recorded their excommunication by the Alberta staff, and shared it with the world. The behavior of the workers was applauded by many of the faithful, but shocking and appalling to others.
9. Nguyễn Thanh Hoa – Badly underestimated by the western overseers, he took half a country worth of Friends with him, and restarted a better version of the religion
10. William Irvine – Yes, the founder. His existence is very inconvenient for the narrative that professing people are ordered to believe. It is hard to rank him higher because so many 2x2's are still in the dark, and because he faded into obscurity instead of causing any real problems after being put out of fellowship by George Walker and company.
Honorable Mentions:
Elizabeth Coleman
Brad Lewis
Scott Ross
Nguyễn Thị Minh Thanh
Jeanie and Sam Dudley
Edgar Massey
~~ God keeps all kinds of lists, names to sentence the ones who fight against him to send them to the everlasting lake of fire.... Anyone of us on TMB will wish and hope that none of us will be on God's KILLING fields list.
Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.”
Heb. 10:10-11 For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
I Peter 4:17-18 For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?”
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 22:06:28 GMT -5
I don't think God would trivialise by keepings lists. Not unless God has an Angel with a Laptop.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 22:08:47 GMT -5
I don't think God would trivialise by keepings lists. Not unless God has an Angel with a Laptop. well he does have a couple books on us all.... |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 22:13:50 GMT -5
That list would only be a hate list for narrow-minded people who see their way as the only way. They may be unwilling to admit that any of their opinions, ideas, or ways of doing things are flawed. A narrow-minded person will stick to his or her guns, even when confronted with opposing facts. The good "Truth" Church friends that we have do not fall into that category. your a bit disconnected from reality of the situation openingact34 didn't make a "love list" or a "pal list" or a "friends list" the title of the thread should have been your first clue as to what was being posted.... |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 22:32:37 GMT -5
The Workers used to carry a black book, not the Bible. But of course there would be no need for those now with Laptops. Maybe God is using them as spotters so as the entries can be made in the main book. Although you would think that an omnipresent God would not need spotters.
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Post by Pragmatic on Apr 28, 2019 22:39:01 GMT -5
The word hate was probably not the best word choice, but certainly the older generation used to refer to the "Enemy" or the "Enemies of Truth"
I suspect these term are a throwback to the Irish Catholic vs Protestant days of the previous century, and maybe also to the early Biblical times when people were forced underground and the Lions enjoyed a picnic.
The church should be grateful for honest people of courage who have spoken against injustice, immorality, bullying etc. They are friends, not enemies.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 22:42:01 GMT -5
The Workers used to carry a black book, not the Bible. But of course there would be no need for those now with Laptops. Maybe God is using them as spotters so as the entries can be made in the main book. Although you would think that an omnipresent God would not need spotters. and what black book was that if not the bible? |
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Post by nathan on Apr 28, 2019 22:50:29 GMT -5
I don't think God would trivialise by keepings lists. Not unless God has an Angel with a Laptop.
Rev. 20:11-15 Then I/John apostle saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.
The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. |
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