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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 16, 2019 16:55:42 GMT -5
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't Auzzie's and Kiwi's have the right to travel between their countries without any immigration or visa's etc? he still would have needed to fill out paper work for the firearm....i don't think NZ is that liberal to allow non-citizens to own firearms.... The prime minister said the killer purchased the guns legally.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 17:00:59 GMT -5
he still would have needed to fill out paper work for the firearm....i don't think NZ is that liberal to allow non-citizens to own firearms.... The prime minister said the killer purchased the guns legally. even the US doesn't allow non-citizens to purchase firearms...
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 16, 2019 17:03:02 GMT -5
The prime minister said the killer purchased the guns legally. even the US doesn't allow non-citizens to purchase firearms... That's not true.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 17:05:45 GMT -5
even the US doesn't allow non-citizens to purchase firearms... That's not true. ummm right on the form it asks you if your an illegal or unlawful resident of the US if you answer yes you don't get the firearm....sure you could lie but thats not the fault of the US or form 4473....question 12 c.
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Post by benar on Mar 16, 2019 17:38:10 GMT -5
ummm right on the form it asks you if your an illegal or unlawful resident of the US if you answer yes you don't get the firearm....sure you could lie but thats not the fault of the US or form 4473....question 12 c. Illegal or unlawful resident is different from simply being a non-citizen. Either way, we can come and go as we please, so he was a legal resident.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 17:46:09 GMT -5
ummm right on the form it asks you if your an illegal or unlawful resident of the US if you answer yes you don't get the firearm....sure you could lie but thats not the fault of the US or form 4473....question 12 c. Illegal or unlawful resident is different from simply being a non-citizen. Either way, we can come and go as we please, so he was a legal resident. sorry tourists can't buy firearms either.
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Post by snow on Mar 16, 2019 18:27:00 GMT -5
Illegal or unlawful resident is different from simply being a non-citizen. Either way, we can come and go as we please, so he was a legal resident. sorry tourists can't buy firearms either. What about people there on a green card or those who are residents but not yet citizens? Can they? Do you have the designation Permanent Resident like we do, and if you do, can they buy guns?
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Post by ellie on Mar 16, 2019 18:43:56 GMT -5
Illegal or unlawful resident is different from simply being a non-citizen. Either way, we can come and go as we please, so he was a legal resident. sorry tourists can't buy firearms either. A resident is not a tourist.
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 16, 2019 19:04:42 GMT -5
an illegal or unlawful resident of the US . That's not what you said … you said non-citizens. That question was about illegal status, not citizenship.
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 16, 2019 19:09:12 GMT -5
sorry tourists can't buy firearms either. What about people there on a green card or those who are residents but not yet citizens? Can they? Do you have the designation Permanent Resident like we do, and if you do, can they buy guns? Of course - any legal resident can buy a gun. I don't know about other states, until later this year in Nevada it is legal for an illegal resident to buy a gun by a loophole in the law for gun show events. Thugs from California come here and stock up on weaponry -- the government of CA has complained to Nevada because of it.
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 16, 2019 19:11:20 GMT -5
sorry tourists can't buy firearms either. A resident is not a tourist. The new word for such residents is invader.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 20:09:58 GMT -5
sorry tourists can't buy firearms either. What about people there on a green card or those who are residents but not yet citizens? Can they? Do you have the designation Permanent Resident like we do, and if you do, can they buy guns? i don't think there is a question on the form for green card people, id have to look again....
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 20:11:22 GMT -5
an illegal or unlawful resident of the US . That's not what you said … you said non-citizens. That question was about illegal status, not citizenship. an illegal or unlawful resident would be a non-citizen...
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Post by benar on Mar 16, 2019 21:14:16 GMT -5
That's not what you said … you said non-citizens. That question was about illegal status, not citizenship. an illegal or unlawful resident would be a non-citizen... False equivalence fallacy - not all non-citizens would be illegal or unlawful residents.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 21:20:23 GMT -5
an illegal or unlawful resident would be a non-citizen... False equivalence fallacy - not all non-citizens would be illegal or unlawful residents. then visit my country with whatever non-citizen status you want and try to buy a firearm....
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Post by snow on Mar 17, 2019 11:46:06 GMT -5
False equivalence fallacy - not all non-citizens would be illegal or unlawful residents. then visit my country with whatever non-citizen status you want and try to buy a firearm.... According to Canadian government import/export laws, we can buy a gun down in the States and bring it home, but there is a lot of paperwork involved.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2019 16:09:44 GMT -5
then visit my country with whatever non-citizen status you want and try to buy a firearm.... According to Canadian government import/export laws, we can buy a gun down in the States and bring it home, but there is a lot of paperwork involved. i don't see how they can't fill out the paperwork HERE properly....
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Post by snow on Mar 17, 2019 16:25:26 GMT -5
According to Canadian government import/export laws, we can buy a gun down in the States and bring it home, but there is a lot of paperwork involved. i don't see how they can't fill out the paperwork HERE properly.... I imagine there is paperwork required from each country. But as a Canadian I can't just buy a gun in the states, even if it's all good with the States, and bring it back to Canada without the Canadian government getting involved and okaying it.
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Post by howitis on Mar 17, 2019 17:41:09 GMT -5
Every time I hear about gun laws and gun control...(now please don't misunderstand me my husband, brothers children and grand children all have licenses to own and use firearms in our country)....I wonder if it has more to do with our "wrongs" rather than our "rights". Do we seriously believe we must have a firearm to protect ourselves? Is it our "right", that we would consider killing or maiming another human being because we believe our "right" to live is greater than theirs? Or is our society so messed up that we have so great mistrust of our neighbour rather than love which we were commanded to have. In Australia, I believe a visitor cannot just purchase or bring into the country a firearm without the knowledge of the police, so possibly an incident like happened in NZ would not occur. That being said unlawful people do unlawful things, extremism in any form from any faction is always dangerous. Let us think of those suffering because of this incident not just the families and friends of those killed and wounded, also the perpetrator's family and friends, the measure of guilt is immense.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2019 20:06:38 GMT -5
depends on how strong your survival instinct is and how strong your instinct is to protect loved ones and friends is i guess.....
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Post by Grant on Mar 17, 2019 20:50:54 GMT -5
Every time I hear about gun laws and gun control...(now please don't misunderstand me my husband, brothers children and grand children all have licenses to own and use firearms in our country)....I wonder if it has more to do with our "wrongs" rather than our "rights". Do we seriously believe we must have a firearm to protect ourselves? Is it our "right", that we would consider killing or maiming another human being because we believe our "right" to live is greater than theirs? Or is our society so messed up that we have so great mistrust of our neighbour rather than love which we were commanded to have. In Australia, I believe a visitor cannot just purchase or bring into the country a firearm without the knowledge of the police, so possibly an incident like happened in NZ would not occur. That being said unlawful people do unlawful things, extremism in any form from any faction is always dangerous. Let us think of those suffering because of this incident not just the families and friends of those killed and wounded, also the perpetrator's family and friends, the measure of guilt is immense. It appears he may have got a gun licence after arriving in NZ and no doubt the police are informed if someone buys or brings a gun into NZ. Australians are not seen as visitors or vice versa I understand. So they have no shootings in Oz? He is Australian and would have likely done it in either country. People get guns one way or another. I think NZers should deport Australian criminals the same as Australia deports NZ criminals.
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 17, 2019 23:28:15 GMT -5
That's not what you said … you said non-citizens. That question was about illegal status, not citizenship. an illegal or unlawful resident would be a non-citizen... Of course. But not all non-citizens are illegal or unlawful. I know the difference between a non-citizen and an illegal alien.
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Post by howitis on Mar 18, 2019 0:43:45 GMT -5
No Grant I never said there were no shootings in Oz, or that it wouldn't happen here regardless of the law. People who are extreme in their thinking often become extreme in their actions. Obviously NZ is seeing the need for tighter gun control because of this incident, it appears because of this threat many people in NZ are buying firearms that they feel may soon be off limits to them....what does this tell us about our society? Firearm laws in general? In NSW we have an interesting development whereby the state is about to elect a new state government, the Labor Party has cut a deal with the Shooters and Fishers Party, who are lobbying for weaker gun laws, yet the leader of the Labor Party has said he will not uphold the weakening of the current firearm laws! Where to from here society?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2019 2:37:01 GMT -5
Every time I hear about gun laws and gun control...(now please don't misunderstand me my husband, brothers children and grand children all have licenses to own and use firearms in our country)....I wonder if it has more to do with our "wrongs" rather than our "rights". Do we seriously believe we must have a firearm to protect ourselves? Is it our "right", that we would consider killing or maiming another human being because we believe our "right" to live is greater than theirs? Or is our society so messed up that we have so great mistrust of our neighbour rather than love which we were commanded to have. In Australia, I believe a visitor cannot just purchase or bring into the country a firearm without the knowledge of the police, so possibly an incident like happened in NZ would not occur. That being said unlawful people do unlawful things, extremism in any form from any faction is always dangerous. Let us think of those suffering because of this incident not just the families and friends of those killed and wounded, also the perpetrator's family and friends, the measure of guilt is immense. Hi Howisit, Thanks for your expression of care/ thoughts for those involved in the tragedy in our country. We listened to the perpetrator’s grandmother on The news tonight and felt so sorry for her ( as we do for the massacre victims families). Unfortunately some of the nicest people & in good homes have children that turn into monsters for whatever reason. It is so hard on the family. cheers.
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Post by ellie on Mar 18, 2019 6:00:11 GMT -5
Every time I hear about gun laws and gun control...(now please don't misunderstand me my husband, brothers children and grand children all have licenses to own and use firearms in our country)....I wonder if it has more to do with our "wrongs" rather than our "rights". Do we seriously believe we must have a firearm to protect ourselves? Is it our "right", that we would consider killing or maiming another human being because we believe our "right" to live is greater than theirs? Or is our society so messed up that we have so great mistrust of our neighbour rather than love which we were commanded to have. In Australia, I believe a visitor cannot just purchase or bring into the country a firearm without the knowledge of the police, so possibly an incident like happened in NZ would not occur. That being said unlawful people do unlawful things, extremism in any form from any faction is always dangerous. Let us think of those suffering because of this incident not just the families and friends of those killed and wounded, also the perpetrator's family and friends, the measure of guilt is immense. He is Australian and would have likely done it in either country. People get guns one way or another. It was probably in NZ because he was making some kind of statement or that's where he was living at the time. Though it's also not outside the realms of possibility that NZ was chosen because there are far fewer semi-automatic weapon restrictions there. Legally I think the AR-15 is restricted to police, military and couple of other categories in Australia.
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 18, 2019 16:46:50 GMT -5
What about people there on a green card or those who are residents but not yet citizens? Can they? Do you have the designation Permanent Resident like we do, and if you do, can they buy guns? i don't think there is a question on the form for green card people, id have to look again.... There doesn't need to be a question on the form for a green card holder. It's legal for them to have a gun. What's your point?
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 18, 2019 16:50:34 GMT -5
According to Canadian government import/export laws, we can buy a gun down in the States and bring it home, but there is a lot of paperwork involved. i don't see how they can't fill out the paperwork HERE properly.... Americans don't get to do Canadian paperwork, Wally.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2019 19:30:22 GMT -5
i don't think there is a question on the form for green card people, id have to look again.... There doesn't need to be a question on the form for a green card holder. It's legal for them to have a gun. What's your point? just answering snows question as best i can...keep up...
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