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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2019 23:47:19 GMT -5
Thanks for that Wally. Will a wall stop the movement of drugs? Probably not as those fellas will just come up with another way of moving it. Will a wall stop crime? It may have an effect but like the drugs they will find another way. What is being done in the way of drug education and prevention of ever becoming an addict? Do these people committing crimes have a home and a job or do they commit crime to survive? The irony of the whole wall/terrorist proposal by Trump is that of all the foreign terrorists caught at border terminals, most of them are apprehended at the Canadian border. Fewer than 10 "suspects" have been caught at the Mexican border, and most of them were found to be nothing more than suspects. The vast majority of terrorists headed for the US are intercepted before they ever board an airplane in a foreign country. From my own experience, don't think you can even smuggle your prescription medication through the airport in Montreal. well it only took 19 terrorists the last time around to kill 2800+ people. 10 is about half way there.... www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2016/apr/04/ron-desantis/terrorists-groups-besides-isis-crossing-us-mexico-/
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jan 27, 2019 23:53:33 GMT -5
The ironic thing is they were mostly Saudi's who are the USA's friends. Not one of them would have arrived from the Mexican border. From memory they were all in the USA on legitimate visa's. It is almost as if the Saudi's can do no wrong as long as they are the USA's strongman when needed in the Middle East.
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Post by Dennis J on Jan 28, 2019 2:49:31 GMT -5
False flags? Perhaps things did not occur as our eyes told us that day. I never have been able to accept jet fuel burned that hot, but then...? Some how there was something involved which to me indicated something much worse and more sinister was involved. Will we ever know? Not as long as our Govt maintains its secrets, it seems to me like.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2019 3:31:12 GMT -5
False flags? Perhaps things did not occur as our eyes told us that day. I never have been able to accept jet fuel burned that hot, but then...? Some how there was something involved which to me indicated something much worse and more sinister was involved. Will we ever know? Not as long as our Govt maintains its secrets, it seems to me like. popular mechanics wrote an article debunking much of the 9/11 conspiracies such as the fuel couldn't burn hot enough etc...etc... www.popularmechanics.com/military/a6384/debunking-911-myths-world-trade-center/#steel
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Post by rational on Jan 28, 2019 9:10:54 GMT -5
False flags? Perhaps things did not occur as our eyes told us that day. I never have been able to accept jet fuel burned that hot, but then...? Not sure how hot you think Jet-A burns but there are a number of sources that publish the specifications. In open air the burn temperature is usually stated to be 1,030 °C (1,890 °F) or very close to that range.Of course there is an explanation as to why these secrets will never be told - stick with William of Ockham - there are no secrets to be told. The science put forth by Popular Mechanics are difficult to refute since the reasoning is sound and well supported.
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Post by snow on Jan 28, 2019 14:28:17 GMT -5
Wouldn't it be interesting if Mexico decided to retaliate and not allow any Americans to come to Mexico anymore. Not like they would because it would do a number on their economy, but with the amount of Americans that have land down there, taking that away would be a way of retaliating also.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 28, 2019 15:02:25 GMT -5
The irony of the whole wall/terrorist proposal by Trump is that of all the foreign terrorists caught at border terminals, most of them are apprehended at the Canadian border. Fewer than 10 "suspects" have been caught at the Mexican border, and most of them were found to be nothing more than suspects. The vast majority of terrorists headed for the US are intercepted before they ever board an airplane in a foreign country. From my own experience, don't think you can even smuggle your prescription medication through the airport in Montreal. well it only took 19 terrorists the last time around to kill 2800+ people. 10 is about half way there.... That wasn't my point at all. Those terrorists did not sneak into the country from Mexico. A WALL would NEVER have kept them out of the country.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 28, 2019 15:04:46 GMT -5
The ironic thing is they were mostly Saudi's who are the USA's friends. Not one of them would have arrived from the Mexican border. From memory they were all in the USA on legitimate visa's. It is almost as if the Saudi's can do no wrong as long as they are the USA's strongman when needed in the Middle East. Same as Saudis are still allowed to get off with butchering American based journalists. Trump has finally decided to fire all the illegal immigrants he got phony documents for so they could work in his houses.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 28, 2019 15:11:15 GMT -5
If you're waiting for a WALL, just be patient. It's going to take a state of emergency.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2019 16:23:03 GMT -5
Wouldn't it be interesting if Mexico decided to retaliate and not allow any Americans to come to Mexico anymore. Not like they would because it would do a number on their economy, but with the amount of Americans that have land down there, taking that away would be a way of retaliating also. watch the movie "day after tomorrow"
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2019 19:26:34 GMT -5
well it only took 19 terrorists the last time around to kill 2800+ people. 10 is about half way there.... That wasn't my point at all. Those terrorists did not sneak into the country from Mexico. A WALL would NEVER have kept them out of the country. and my point is a terrorist is a terrorist whether they sneak over the border or come in by plane or ship....who here wants another 9/11?
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Post by rational on Jan 28, 2019 19:39:14 GMT -5
and my point is a terrorist is a terrorist whether they sneak over the border or come in by plane or ship....who here wants another 9/11? A better question - Who thinks a wall would make any difference?
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 28, 2019 19:42:42 GMT -5
and my point is a terrorist is a terrorist whether they sneak over the border or come in by plane or ship....who here wants another 9/11? In what way have I disagreed with you? I was only talking about a WALL.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2019 19:46:14 GMT -5
A better question - Who thinks a wall would make any difference? i would think everyone stopped(wall) or caught(BP) would make a difference and as we see it only takes a few to do great damage....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2019 19:55:22 GMT -5
In what way have I disagreed with you? I was only talking about a WALL. you either plug all the holes or you in effect plug none....about 2,000 people cross the border illegally per day if just 1 of them is a terrorist thats 365 terrorists roaming the country side in 1 year thats the equivalent of 19 9/11's or 53,000 dead people....
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Post by Gene on Jan 28, 2019 20:04:32 GMT -5
In what way have I disagreed with you? I was only talking about a WALL. you either plug all the holes or you in effect plug none....about 2,000 people cross the border illegally per day if just 1 of them is a terrorist thats 365 terrorists roaming the country side in 1 year thats the equivalent of 19 9/11's or 53,000 dead people.... If I had $5.7 B to spend on border security, I'd want to know two things: 1) What is the highest priority problem related to border security? 2) What is the most efficient (effectiveness/cost) solution to the problem. Surely some smart person could answer those two questions, even if the ultimate answer to how to spend the $5.7 B is a package that addresses multiple higher priority problems with multiple solutions.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jan 28, 2019 20:17:48 GMT -5
you either plug all the holes or you in effect plug none....about 2,000 people cross the border illegally per day if just 1 of them is a terrorist thats 365 terrorists roaming the country side in 1 year thats the equivalent of 19 9/11's or 53,000 dead people.... If I had $5.7 B to spend on border security, I'd want to know two things: 1) What is the highest priority problem related to border security? 2) What is the most efficient (effectiveness/cost) solution to the problem. Surely some smart person could answer those two questions, even if the ultimate answer to how to spend the $5.7 B is a package that addresses multiple higher priority problems with multiple solutions. Easy, build a Trump Casino on the border.
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Post by Gene on Jan 28, 2019 20:21:48 GMT -5
If I had $5.7 B to spend on border security, I'd want to know two things: 1) What is the highest priority problem related to border security? 2) What is the most efficient (effectiveness/cost) solution to the problem. Surely some smart person could answer those two questions, even if the ultimate answer to how to spend the $5.7 B is a package that addresses multiple higher priority problems with multiple solutions. Easy, build a Trump Casino on the border. Staffed with illegal aliens. And if it doesn’t work out, declare bankruptcy and screw the tradesmen.
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Post by BobWilliston on Jan 28, 2019 21:13:47 GMT -5
In what way have I disagreed with you? I was only talking about a WALL. you either plug all the holes or you in effect plug none....about 2,000 people cross the border illegally per day if just 1 of them is a terrorist thats 365 terrorists roaming the country side in 1 year thats the equivalent of 19 9/11's or 53,000 dead people.... Yes, "if". If you want to keep flies out of your house, do you lock the door or do you install window screens? I say start with the window screens, and if you have money left over, buy a screen door.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 28, 2019 21:27:36 GMT -5
In what way have I disagreed with you? I was only talking about a WALL. you either plug all the holes or you in effect plug none....about 2,000 people cross the border illegally per day if just 1 of them is a terrorist thats 365 terrorists roaming the country side in 1 year thats the equivalent of 19 9/11's or 53,000 dead people.... Home Center for Immigration Studies
Low-immigration, Pro-immigrant
9/11 "The September 11 Travel Operation," is a detailed account of how each hijacker acquired a visa and entered the United States In all, they had 25 contacts with consular officers and 43 contacts with immigration and customs authorities.
They began acquiring their visas in April 1999 and began entering the country in December 2000.
They successfully entered the United States 33 times over 21 months, through nine airports of entry, most of which were on the East Coast.
cis.org/Kephart/No-911-Hijackers-Came-Through-Canada-Doesnt-Mean-Canada-TerroristFree
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 28, 2019 21:59:05 GMT -5
you either plug all the holes or you in effect plug none....about 2,000 people cross the border illegally per day if just 1 of them is a terrorist thats 365 terrorists roaming the country side in 1 year thats the equivalent of 19 9/11's or 53,000 dead people.... If I had $5.7 B to spend on border security, I'd want to know two things: 1) What is the highest priority problem related to border security? 2) What is the most efficient (effectiveness/cost) solution to the problem. Surely some smart person could answer those two questions, even if the ultimate answer to how to spend the $5.7 B is a package that addresses multiple higher priority problems with multiple solutions. But, Gene! You are talking about a SMART REASONABLE person! But we don't have that kind of person in the White House!
We have a egotistical "idiot" (sorry to have to use that word, but even one of his own advisors called him that)
Someone whose bottom line for an advisor isn't the person best for the job but someone who is "loyal" to him.
Someone who seems to have the memory of a gnat. (except when it comes to a border wall )
Someone who when he wants something, -wants it RIGHT NOW! Yet will also forget it two minutes later.
To the point that some of of his advisors quietly remove papers from his desk that could damage not only the US but other countries as well.
They know that if they are out of "sight" they will be out of "mind."
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Post by rational on Jan 29, 2019 9:48:18 GMT -5
In what way have I disagreed with you? I was only talking about a WALL. you either plug all the holes or you in effect plug none....about 2,000 people cross the border illegally per day if just 1 of them is a terrorist thats 365 terrorists roaming the country side in 1 year thats the equivalent of 19 9/11's or 53,000 dead people.... Let's look at your logic and conclusion. It has been 17 years since 9/11. According to you since all of the holes are not plugged they are all considered open. Illegal border crossings have been going down but let's go with your numbers and say that 365 terrorists each year have entered the country. That is a total of 6,000+ terrorists roaming the country. That is the equivalent of about 326 9/11s or 970,000 dead. Here is the list of terrorist attacks since 9/11: April 15, 2013 - Twin bomb blasts explode near the finish line of the Boston Marathon, Both were legal immigrates, in the US legally. July 16, 2015 - Mohammad Abdulazeez killing four US Marines and a Navy sailor on a military recruiting center in Chattanooga, Tennessee Mohammad Abdulazeez was an American citizen in the country legally. December 2, 2015 - Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik killed 14 people at Inland Regional Center in San Bernardino, California. One was an American citizen and the other was legally in the US on a K-1 visa and a conditional green card. June 12, 2016 - Omar Mateen killed 49 people and wounded others in a nightclub in Orlando. He was an American citizen. May 26, 2017 - Jeremy Joseph Christian pleaded guilty to killing 2 people and injuring a third during a Portland, OR, train attack. Jeremy Joseph Christian is an American citizen. August 12, 2017 - James Alex Fields Jr. killed one person is killed and injured 19 in Charlottesville, Virginia. James Alex Fields Jr. is an American Citizen. October 31, 2017 - Sayfullo Habibullaevic Saipov killed eight people are killed and injured 10 more on a busy bicycle path near the World Trade Center in New York. Sayfullo Habibullaevic Saipov was in the US legally on a United States Permanent Resident Card. December 11, 2017 - Akayed Ullah set a failed bombing in a NYC subway station injured four people. Akayed Ullah is a Bangladeshi immigrant legally in the US. October 23-27, 2018 - Cesar Altieri Sayoc Jr was accused of mailing deadly devices to a number of US citizens. Cesar Altieri Sayoc Jr is an American citizen. None of the above terrorists (or accused terrorists) would have been stopped by a wall. It seems doubtful that any of them would have ever seen such a wall. And the 9/11 terrorists that you bring up as examples - even an 100% effective wall would not have stopped a single one of them.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jan 29, 2019 11:35:36 GMT -5
you either plug all the holes or you in effect plug none....about 2,000 people cross the border illegally per day if just 1 of them is a terrorist thats 365 terrorists roaming the country side in 1 year thats the equivalent of 19 9/11's or 53,000 dead people.... Let's look at your logic and conclusion. It has been 17 years since 9/11. According to you since all of the holes are not plugged they are all considered open. Illegal border crossings have been going down but let's go with your numbers and say that 365 terrorists each year have entered the country. That is a total of 6,000+ terrorists roaming the country. That is the equivalent of about 326 9/11s or 970,000 dead. Here is the list of terrorist attacks since 9/11: April 15, 2013 - Twin bomb blasts explode near the finish line of the Boston Marathon, Both were legal immigrates, in the US legally. July 16, 2015 - Mohammad Abdulazeez killing four US Marines and a Navy sailor on a military recruiting center in Chattanooga, Tennessee Mohammad Abdulazeez was an American citizen in the country legally. December 2, 2015 - Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik killed 14 people at Inland Regional Center in San Bernardino, California. One was an American citizen and the other was legally in the US on a K-1 visa and a conditional green card. June 12, 2016 - Omar Mateen killed 49 people and wounded others in a nightclub in Orlando. He was an American citizen. May 26, 2017 - Jeremy Joseph Christian pleaded guilty to killing 2 people and injuring a third during a Portland, OR, train attack. Jeremy Joseph Christian is an American citizen. August 12, 2017 - James Alex Fields Jr. killed one person is killed and injured 19 in Charlottesville, Virginia. James Alex Fields Jr. is an American Citizen. October 31, 2017 - Sayfullo Habibullaevic Saipov killed eight people are killed and injured 10 more on a busy bicycle path near the World Trade Center in New York. Sayfullo Habibullaevic Saipov was in the US legally on a United States Permanent Resident Card. December 11, 2017 - Akayed Ullah set a failed bombing in a NYC subway station injured four people. Akayed Ullah is a Bangladeshi immigrant legally in the US. October 23-27, 2018 - Cesar Altieri Sayoc Jr was accused of mailing deadly devices to a number of US citizens. Cesar Altieri Sayoc Jr is an American citizen. None of the above terrorists (or accused terrorists) would have been stopped by a wall. It seems doubtful that any of them would have ever seen such a wall. And the 9/11 terrorists that you bring up as examples - even an 100% effective wall would not have stopped a single one of them. Your forgetting one important point Rational. A wall would make Wally feel better and maybe even happy. A bit like when a placebo is administered.
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Post by snow on Jan 29, 2019 12:31:19 GMT -5
Wouldn't it be interesting if Mexico decided to retaliate and not allow any Americans to come to Mexico anymore. Not like they would because it would do a number on their economy, but with the amount of Americans that have land down there, taking that away would be a way of retaliating also. watch the movie "day after tomorrow" What's that movie got to do with Americans not allowed in Mexico? It's about climate change that freezes New York City isn't it?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2019 12:58:14 GMT -5
watch the movie "day after tomorrow" What's that movie got to do with Americans not allowed in Mexico? It's about climate change that freezes New York City isn't it? its funny because the mexicans allow americans to cross the border during a crisis...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2019 13:07:01 GMT -5
you either plug all the holes or you in effect plug none....about 2,000 people cross the border illegally per day if just 1 of them is a terrorist thats 365 terrorists roaming the country side in 1 year thats the equivalent of 19 9/11's or 53,000 dead people.... Let's look at your logic and conclusion. It has been 17 years since 9/11. According to you since all of the holes are not plugged they are all considered open. Illegal border crossings have been going down but let's go with your numbers and say that 365 terrorists each year have entered the country. That is a total of 6,000+ terrorists roaming the country. That is the equivalent of about 326 9/11s or 970,000 dead. Here is the list of terrorist attacks since 9/11: April 15, 2013 - Twin bomb blasts explode near the finish line of the Boston Marathon, Both were legal immigrates, in the US legally. July 16, 2015 - Mohammad Abdulazeez killing four US Marines and a Navy sailor on a military recruiting center in Chattanooga, Tennessee Mohammad Abdulazeez was an American citizen in the country legally. December 2, 2015 - Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik killed 14 people at Inland Regional Center in San Bernardino, California. One was an American citizen and the other was legally in the US on a K-1 visa and a conditional green card. June 12, 2016 - Omar Mateen killed 49 people and wounded others in a nightclub in Orlando. He was an American citizen. May 26, 2017 - Jeremy Joseph Christian pleaded guilty to killing 2 people and injuring a third during a Portland, OR, train attack. Jeremy Joseph Christian is an American citizen. August 12, 2017 - James Alex Fields Jr. killed one person is killed and injured 19 in Charlottesville, Virginia. James Alex Fields Jr. is an American Citizen. October 31, 2017 - Sayfullo Habibullaevic Saipov killed eight people are killed and injured 10 more on a busy bicycle path near the World Trade Center in New York. Sayfullo Habibullaevic Saipov was in the US legally on a United States Permanent Resident Card. December 11, 2017 - Akayed Ullah set a failed bombing in a NYC subway station injured four people. Akayed Ullah is a Bangladeshi immigrant legally in the US. October 23-27, 2018 - Cesar Altieri Sayoc Jr was accused of mailing deadly devices to a number of US citizens. Cesar Altieri Sayoc Jr is an American citizen. None of the above terrorists (or accused terrorists) would have been stopped by a wall. It seems doubtful that any of them would have ever seen such a wall. And the 9/11 terrorists that you bring up as examples - even an 100% effective wall would not have stopped a single one of them. regardless no one saw those terrorists coming and 2800 died and they planned it for years before they did it, who knows what they are planning now with the border so unprotected... in fact i remember joe biden on cspan a day or two before 9/11 come out saying terrorists would never attack us with WMD's and look what they did anyways....you keep sticking your head in the sand and your butt will be toast...
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Post by snow on Jan 29, 2019 13:22:35 GMT -5
What's that movie got to do with Americans not allowed in Mexico? It's about climate change that freezes New York City isn't it? its funny because the mexicans allow americans to cross the border during a crisis... Oh I see. Maybe I should watch it again. Been a long time since I saw it. I think they would help you in a crisis. Disasters seem to bring out the best in people.
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Post by rational on Jan 29, 2019 13:28:34 GMT -5
Let's look at your logic and conclusion. It has been 17 years since 9/11. According to you since all of the holes are not plugged they are all considered open. Illegal border crossings have been going down but let's go with your numbers and say that 365 terrorists each year have entered the country. That is a total of 6,000+ terrorists roaming the country. That is the equivalent of about 326 9/11s or 970,000 dead. Here is the list of terrorist attacks since 9/11: April 15, 2013 - Twin bomb blasts explode near the finish line of the Boston Marathon, Both were legal immigrates, in the US legally. July 16, 2015 - Mohammad Abdulazeez killing four US Marines and a Navy sailor on a military recruiting center in Chattanooga, Tennessee Mohammad Abdulazeez was an American citizen in the country legally. December 2, 2015 - Syed Rizwan Farook and Tashfeen Malik killed 14 people at Inland Regional Center in San Bernardino, California. One was an American citizen and the other was legally in the US on a K-1 visa and a conditional green card. June 12, 2016 - Omar Mateen killed 49 people and wounded others in a nightclub in Orlando. He was an American citizen. May 26, 2017 - Jeremy Joseph Christian pleaded guilty to killing 2 people and injuring a third during a Portland, OR, train attack. Jeremy Joseph Christian is an American citizen. August 12, 2017 - James Alex Fields Jr. killed one person is killed and injured 19 in Charlottesville, Virginia. James Alex Fields Jr. is an American Citizen. October 31, 2017 - Sayfullo Habibullaevic Saipov killed eight people are killed and injured 10 more on a busy bicycle path near the World Trade Center in New York. Sayfullo Habibullaevic Saipov was in the US legally on a United States Permanent Resident Card. December 11, 2017 - Akayed Ullah set a failed bombing in a NYC subway station injured four people. Akayed Ullah is a Bangladeshi immigrant legally in the US. October 23-27, 2018 - Cesar Altieri Sayoc Jr was accused of mailing deadly devices to a number of US citizens. Cesar Altieri Sayoc Jr is an American citizen. None of the above terrorists (or accused terrorists) would have been stopped by a wall. It seems doubtful that any of them would have ever seen such a wall. And the 9/11 terrorists that you bring up as examples - even an 100% effective wall would not have stopped a single one of them. Your forgetting one important point Rational. A wall would make Wally feel better and maybe even happy. A bit like when a placebo is administered. Sounds like there is a market for a portable personal wall.
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