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Post by Lee on Jan 4, 2019 21:56:51 GMT -5
My church is pretty much culturally passive. There's a lot of good messaging but the ambient culture pretty much absorbs and neutralizes its influence. It's not the churchs fault. The problem is the worlds a MF. Our church has 23 different cultures in it. Many Sunday nights are held by a different cultural group. We also have shared lunches and home groups for those from different cultures. Great way for people to mix and connect with those from their own culture Today all cultures worship money and capitalism. These are worshiped as God today. This is an impersonal representation of God. Is this how Jesus knew him?
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Post by Lee on Jan 8, 2019 0:36:32 GMT -5
I thought it was a good question.
People are suffering spiritually (economically?) in spite of the alleged miracles of capitalism and technology.
They are miracles in their own right.
Wanting miracles, as I see them.
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Post by Annan on Oct 20, 2019 11:13:34 GMT -5
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janj
Senior Member
Posts: 470
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Post by janj on Oct 20, 2019 12:52:53 GMT -5
Our church has 23 different cultures in it. Many Sunday nights are held by a different cultural group. We also have shared lunches and home groups for those from different cultures. Great way for people to mix and connect with those from their own culture That's nice isn't it. My atheist group is made up of many diverse cultures and we do that too. Have get togethers with a cultural theme sometimes. It's nice to get to know the other cultures better. I find it so interesting that there is a group of people who gather to ponder the fact that they dont believe in something? What do you discuss at the meetings?
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Post by snow on Oct 20, 2019 13:12:37 GMT -5
That's nice isn't it. My atheist group is made up of many diverse cultures and we do that too. Have get togethers with a cultural theme sometimes. It's nice to get to know the other cultures better. I find it so interesting that there is a group of people who gather to ponder the fact that they dont believe in something? What do you discuss at the meetings? The meeting that I co chair is a group for people who has just recently lost their faith in whatever religion they belonged to. We have ex Hindus, ex Muslims, and of course ex Christians. A few of them are ex pastors. What we discuss in our group is how to adjust to their new reality. Ex pastors especially have a hard time because they feel bad about misleading so many people. All of them are going through the grieving process, rather like losing a loved one. There are stages, one of which is anger at the religious beliefs they were fed very young and believed because they trusted their elders to be right. We don't talk about the religion itself, we talk about how to let go of the anger they might feel. We also address how it has effected their relationships with family that are still theists and have shunned them. We have a few ex Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons in the group. They still love their family but they can't believe as their family continues to do and that has caused them problems. So we try to help them deal with that as best we can. Some find the insidious message of hell is still a fear because they have held that belief for so long. That if they didn't believe they were going to hell. Well they no longer believe so it's a problem even if they know on an intellectual level that it doesn't exist. Old beliefs are emotional and harder to let go of then on an intellectual level. I have been an agnostic/atheist since I left home at 17 and so that's been 40+ years, so I have gone through all the stages a long time ago. I try and help by sharing with them what worked for me. Atheism is not a choice as so many theists wrongly believe. It's very traumatic when it happens. It totally causes an upheaval in their lives. It's really tough on those who helped spread it. So that's what we talk about. Ways of coping with losing our belief in Gods, afterlives etc.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Oct 20, 2019 14:30:03 GMT -5
nothing like a smarta$$ to get the day rolling.... That letter has been around a long time. No doubt the people who are bible believers get upset about it as it points out the obvious. That is the bible is a crock of sh.t.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Oct 20, 2019 14:33:53 GMT -5
Were they astrologers or astronomers? Big difference.
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Post by Annan on Oct 20, 2019 15:41:47 GMT -5
Were they astrologers or astronomers? Big difference. Oh for Pete's sake. You get the idea.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Oct 20, 2019 17:20:17 GMT -5
Astronomers go on facts. Astrologers read the tea leaves in the bottom of the cup. The three wise men ( the Jesus story was not set in Australia for two reasons. This is one of them.) were the latter.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 20, 2019 17:54:46 GMT -5
I find it so interesting that there is a group of people who gather to ponder the fact that they dont believe in something? What do you discuss at the meetings? The meeting that I co chair is a group for people who has just recently lost their faith in whatever religion they belonged to . We have ex Hindus, ex Muslims, and of course ex Christians. A few of them are ex pastors. What we discuss in our group is how to adjust to their new reality. Ex pastors especially have a hard time because they feel bad about misleading so many people. All of them are going through the grieving process, rather like losing a loved one. There are stages, one of which is anger at the religious beliefs they were fed very young and believed because they trusted their elders to be right. We don't talk about the religion itself, we talk about how to let go of the anger they might feel. We also address how it has effected their relationships with family that are still theists and have shunned them. We have a few ex Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons in the group. They still love their family but they can't believe as their family continues to do and that has caused them problems. So we try to help them deal with that as best we can. Some find the insidious message of hell is still a fear because they have held that belief for so long. That if they didn't believe they were going to hell. Well they no longer believe so it's a problem even if they know on an intellectual level that it doesn't exist. Old beliefs are emotional and harder to let go of then on an intellectual level. I have been an agnostic/atheist since I left home at 17 and so that's been 40+ years, so I have gone through all the stages a long time ago. I try and help by sharing with them what worked for me. Atheism is not a choice as so many theists wrongly believe. It's very traumatic when it happens. It totally causes an upheaval in their lives. It's really tough on those who helped spread it . So that's what we talk about. Ways of coping with losing our belief in Gods, afterlives etc. I wish that there had been a group like that when I left. That is exactly how I felt, a terrible sense of "grief."
We all feel grief when a loved person dies but we understand that happens to everyone. I didn't expect a belief that had been my whole life, to just cease to exist. Probably 2x2's belief system is worse because it has been our whole everyday life, -how we dressed, where can or cannot go, what we can or cannot participate in; -unlike other churches just attending a church once a week where a minister did the speaking & praying and all they had to do was listen & sing.
But I also knew that the rigamarole that I had been led to believe all my life was a fantas, and there was no going back to believing such fantasy again.
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Post by snow on Oct 21, 2019 11:18:38 GMT -5
The meeting that I co chair is a group for people who has just recently lost their faith in whatever religion they belonged to . We have ex Hindus, ex Muslims, and of course ex Christians. A few of them are ex pastors. What we discuss in our group is how to adjust to their new reality. Ex pastors especially have a hard time because they feel bad about misleading so many people. All of them are going through the grieving process, rather like losing a loved one. There are stages, one of which is anger at the religious beliefs they were fed very young and believed because they trusted their elders to be right. We don't talk about the religion itself, we talk about how to let go of the anger they might feel. We also address how it has effected their relationships with family that are still theists and have shunned them. We have a few ex Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons in the group. They still love their family but they can't believe as their family continues to do and that has caused them problems. So we try to help them deal with that as best we can. Some find the insidious message of hell is still a fear because they have held that belief for so long. That if they didn't believe they were going to hell. Well they no longer believe so it's a problem even if they know on an intellectual level that it doesn't exist. Old beliefs are emotional and harder to let go of then on an intellectual level. I have been an agnostic/atheist since I left home at 17 and so that's been 40+ years, so I have gone through all the stages a long time ago. I try and help by sharing with them what worked for me. Atheism is not a choice as so many theists wrongly believe. It's very traumatic when it happens. It totally causes an upheaval in their lives. It's really tough on those who helped spread it . So that's what we talk about. Ways of coping with losing our belief in Gods, afterlives etc. I wish that there had been a group like that when I left. That is exactly how I felt, a terrible sense of "grief."
We all feel grief when a loved person dies but we understand that happens to everyone. I didn't expect a belief that had been my whole life, to just cease to exist. Probably 2x2's belief system is worse because it has been our whole everyday life, -how we dressed, where can or cannot go, what we can or cannot participate in; -unlike other churches just attending a church once a week where a minister did the speaking & praying and all they had to do was listen & sing.
But I also knew that the rigamarole that I had been led to believe all my life was a fantas, and there was no going back to believing such fantasy again.
I sure could have used that group while I still lived at home and had to go through the having to still attend meeting with some people that really made things tough for me. Not all did thankfully and I am forever grateful to those professing folks that stood by me and made my life bearable. That's one reason why I'm doing this now. I know the value of being with people who do understand what they are going through to some degree. They bring tears to my eyes sometimes with their stories of how their families are treating them or not having anything at all to do with them. People should be allowed to have a different pov. We should not be ostracized for that. It's so ironic that the people that are doing this to their relatives are the ones that are supposed to be the loving, kind and forgiving group. I don't see that a lot in our group and they are suffering because they love their families but can no longer believe what their family believes. It's not necessary and it's so sad to watch.
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Post by Grant on Oct 21, 2019 13:06:18 GMT -5
I wish that there had been a group like that when I left. That is exactly how I felt, a terrible sense of "grief."
We all feel grief when a loved person dies but we understand that happens to everyone. I didn't expect a belief that had been my whole life, to just cease to exist. Probably 2x2's belief system is worse because it has been our whole everyday life, -how we dressed, where can or cannot go, what we can or cannot participate in; -unlike other churches just attending a church once a week where a minister did the speaking & praying and all they had to do was listen & sing.
But I also knew that the rigamarole that I had been led to believe all my life was a fantas, and there was no going back to believing such fantasy again.
I sure could have used that group while I still lived at home and had to go through the having to still attend meeting with some people that really made things tough for me. Not all did thankfully and I am forever grateful to those professing folks that stood by me and made my life bearable. That's one reason why I'm doing this now. I know the value of being with people who do understand what they are going through to some degree. They bring tears to my eyes sometimes with their stories of how their families are treating them or not having anything at all to do with them. People should be allowed to have a different pov. We should not be ostracized for that. It's so ironic that the people that are doing this to their relatives are the ones that are supposed to be the loving, kind and forgiving group. I don't see that a lot in our group and they are suffering because they love their families but can no longer believe what their family believes. It's not necessary and it's so sad to watch. And it sure occurs the other way when people become believers in an unbelieving family.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Oct 21, 2019 14:13:10 GMT -5
I sure could have used that group while I still lived at home and had to go through the having to still attend meeting with some people that really made things tough for me. Not all did thankfully and I am forever grateful to those professing folks that stood by me and made my life bearable. That's one reason why I'm doing this now. I know the value of being with people who do understand what they are going through to some degree. They bring tears to my eyes sometimes with their stories of how their families are treating them or not having anything at all to do with them. People should be allowed to have a different pov. We should not be ostracized for that. It's so ironic that the people that are doing this to their relatives are the ones that are supposed to be the loving, kind and forgiving group. I don't see that a lot in our group and they are suffering because they love their families but can no longer believe what their family believes. It's not necessary and it's so sad to watch. And it sure occurs the other way when people become believers in an unbelieving family. Yes I can understand that. They would be wondering why they bothered sending you to school.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 21, 2019 14:20:59 GMT -5
I sure could have used that group while I still lived at home and had to go through the having to still attend meeting with some people that really made things tough for me. Not all did thankfully and I am forever grateful to those professing folks that stood by me and made my life bearable. That's one reason why I'm doing this now. I know the value of being with people who do understand what they are going through to some degree. They bring tears to my eyes sometimes with their stories of how their families are treating them or not having anything at all to do with them. People should be allowed to have a different pov. We should not be ostracized for that. It's so ironic that the people that are doing this to their relatives are the ones that are supposed to be the loving, kind and forgiving group. I don't see that a lot in our group and they are suffering because they love their families but can no longer believe what their family believes. It's not necessary and it's so sad to watch. And it sure occurs the other way when people become believers in an unbelieving family. Also it’s just as traumatic when one leaves an only way Church but not Christ belief. Fact is, quitting because you no longer believe in God, is sometimes easier because you’re not being judgmental against the church per se plus your family thinks oh well they’ll be back because they never embraced another belief or church. But 2x2s take it and make it a sure sign you’re going to hell if you change churches!
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 21, 2019 16:35:36 GMT -5
I sure could have used that group while I still lived at home and had to go through the having to still attend meeting with some people that really made things tough for me. Not all did thankfully and I am forever grateful to those professing folks that stood by me and made my life bearable. That's one reason why I'm doing this now. I know the value of being with people who do understand what they are going through to some degree. They bring tears to my eyes sometimes with their stories of how their families are treating them or not having anything at all to do with them. People should be allowed to have a different pov. We should not be ostracized for that. It's so ironic that the people that are doing this to their relatives are the ones that are supposed to be the loving, kind and forgiving group. I don't see that a lot in our group and they are suffering because they love their families but can no longer believe what their family believes. It's not necessary and it's so sad to watch. And it sure occurs the other way when people become believers in an unbelieving family. I'm sure that can be very difficult as well.
But family aside, -unless you have gone though losing something that you have believed & affected your whole life to the degree that the "TRUTH" did, -something that you never anticipated would "die," -you can't understand the anguish that causes.
And that is exactly what happens, the belief just dies when you begin to realize that their never was such eternal absolute TRUTH to start with! You realized it was just one of many beliefs that mankind had created in order to deal with their life.
It takes awhile to get over but when you finally understand it and becomes quite clear just what it is and why mankind has developed such beliefs, it frees you of all that unnecessary baggage you had carried all your life.
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janj
Senior Member
Posts: 470
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Post by janj on Oct 21, 2019 16:48:05 GMT -5
I find it so interesting that there is a group of people who gather to ponder the fact that they dont believe in something? What do you discuss at the meetings? The meeting that I co chair is a group for people who has just recently lost their faith in whatever religion they belonged to. We have ex Hindus, ex Muslims, and of course ex Christians. A few of them are ex pastors. What we discuss in our group is how to adjust to their new reality. Ex pastors especially have a hard time because they feel bad about misleading so many people. All of them are going through the grieving process, rather like losing a loved one. There are stages, one of which is anger at the religious beliefs they were fed very young and believed because they trusted their elders to be right. We don't talk about the religion itself, we talk about how to let go of the anger they might feel. We also address how it has effected their relationships with family that are still theists and have shunned them. We have a few ex Jehovah Witnesses and Mormons in the group. They still love their family but they can't believe as their family continues to do and that has caused them problems. So we try to help them deal with that as best we can. Some find the insidious message of hell is still a fear because they have held that belief for so long. That if they didn't believe they were going to hell. Well they no longer believe so it's a problem even if they know on an intellectual level that it doesn't exist. Old beliefs are emotional and harder to let go of then on an intellectual level. I have been an agnostic/atheist since I left home at 17 and so that's been 40+ years, so I have gone through all the stages a long time ago. I try and help by sharing with them what worked for me. Atheism is not a choice as so many theists wrongly believe. It's very traumatic when it happens. It totally causes an upheaval in their lives. It's really tough on those who helped spread it. So that's what we talk about. Ways of coping with losing our belief in Gods, afterlives etc. Thanks for explaining. I understand now.
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Post by snow on Oct 22, 2019 10:09:50 GMT -5
I sure could have used that group while I still lived at home and had to go through the having to still attend meeting with some people that really made things tough for me. Not all did thankfully and I am forever grateful to those professing folks that stood by me and made my life bearable. That's one reason why I'm doing this now. I know the value of being with people who do understand what they are going through to some degree. They bring tears to my eyes sometimes with their stories of how their families are treating them or not having anything at all to do with them. People should be allowed to have a different pov. We should not be ostracized for that. It's so ironic that the people that are doing this to their relatives are the ones that are supposed to be the loving, kind and forgiving group. I don't see that a lot in our group and they are suffering because they love their families but can no longer believe what their family believes. It's not necessary and it's so sad to watch. And it sure occurs the other way when people become believers in an unbelieving family. I'm sure it does. But you also have groups to support your believers. We need groups to support those who no longer believe for all the same reasons I imagine. But what we address even more in the groups is the loss of their belief. It's traumatic. Family not understanding what they are going through is just one of many things that happen to them. Many of them are older and have believed in a God and an afterlife all their lives and when that changes it's scary and hard to deal with.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 22, 2019 11:15:49 GMT -5
And it sure occurs the other way when people become believers in an unbelieving family. I'm sure it does. But you also have groups to support your believers. We need groups to support those who no longer believe for all the same reasons I imagine. But what we address even more in the groups is the loss of their belief. It's traumatic. Family not understanding what they are going through is just one of many things that happen to them. Many of them are older and have believed in a God and an afterlife all their lives and when that changes it's scary and hard to deal with. Humans don’t like changes, and the older we get the more changes are rebelled against because it does interrupt a lifelong mindset.
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Post by snow on Oct 22, 2019 11:25:43 GMT -5
I'm sure it does. But you also have groups to support your believers. We need groups to support those who no longer believe for all the same reasons I imagine. But what we address even more in the groups is the loss of their belief. It's traumatic. Family not understanding what they are going through is just one of many things that happen to them. Many of them are older and have believed in a God and an afterlife all their lives and when that changes it's scary and hard to deal with. Humans don’t like changes, and the older we get the more changes are rebelled against because it does interrupt a lifelong mindset. True I think it does become harder as we get older. So you can see how traumatic it is for some of our group that are in their 60's and 70's and all of a sudden find themselves in a place where their whole belief system has disappeared. We have some in the group that still identify as theists but only because they are fighting hard to maintain their old beliefs and are trying to not accept that they don't believe anymore. It's really hard on them, but once it happens there is no way it seems to change it. What's done is done and there is no going back to belief. We usually tell them to decide whether they want to change their lifestyle or not because if they don't want their family to possibly turn on them or become ostracized in other ways, they can always just continue going to church and not let their loved ones know that this has happened to them. We never advocate that they tell them or even quit going to church because that decision has to be their's. If they do decide to tell their family and they are rejected, we let them know that we will be there for them.
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Post by Grant on Oct 22, 2019 14:07:06 GMT -5
Humans don’t like changes, and the older we get the more changes are rebelled against because it does interrupt a lifelong mindset. True I think it does become harder as we get older. So you can see how traumatic it is for some of our group that are in their 60's and 70's and all of a sudden find themselves in a place where their whole belief system has disappeared. We have some in the group that still identify as theists but only because they are fighting hard to maintain their old beliefs and are trying to not accept that they don't believe anymore. It's really hard on them, but once it happens there is no way it seems to change it. What's done is done and there is no going back to belief. We usually tell them to decide whether they want to change their lifestyle or not because if they don't want their family to possibly turn on them or become ostracized in other ways, they can always just continue going to church and not let their loved ones know that this has happened to them. We never advocate that they tell them or even quit going to church because that decision has to be their's. If they do decide to tell their family and they are rejected, we let them know that we will be there for them. And the same for those whose family reject them for believing in God. It goes both ways. There's enough ridicule on this board from athiests about those who believe. Trying to make out theists are less than intelligent, believe in fairy tales and so on and this is only a board.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 23, 2019 9:38:11 GMT -5
True I think it does become harder as we get older. So you can see how traumatic it is for some of our group that are in their 60's and 70's and all of a sudden find themselves in a place where their whole belief system has disappeared. We have some in the group that still identify as theists but only because they are fighting hard to maintain their old beliefs and are trying to not accept that they don't believe anymore. It's really hard on them, but once it happens there is no way it seems to change it. What's done is done and there is no going back to belief. We usually tell them to decide whether they want to change their lifestyle or not because if they don't want their family to possibly turn on them or become ostracized in other ways, they can always just continue going to church and not let their loved ones know that this has happened to them. We never advocate that they tell them or even quit going to church because that decision has to be their's. If they do decide to tell their family and they are rejected, we let them know that we will be there for them. And the same for those whose family reject them for believing in God. It goes both ways. There's enough ridicule on this board from athiests about those who believe. Trying to make out theists are less than intelligent, believe in fairy tales and so on and this is only a board. I’ve felt that way also. It got so bad a few years ago, I quit posting for a few years. Why I came back is anybody’s guess! 😉
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Post by snow on Oct 23, 2019 11:09:47 GMT -5
True I think it does become harder as we get older. So you can see how traumatic it is for some of our group that are in their 60's and 70's and all of a sudden find themselves in a place where their whole belief system has disappeared. We have some in the group that still identify as theists but only because they are fighting hard to maintain their old beliefs and are trying to not accept that they don't believe anymore. It's really hard on them, but once it happens there is no way it seems to change it. What's done is done and there is no going back to belief. We usually tell them to decide whether they want to change their lifestyle or not because if they don't want their family to possibly turn on them or become ostracized in other ways, they can always just continue going to church and not let their loved ones know that this has happened to them. We never advocate that they tell them or even quit going to church because that decision has to be their's. If they do decide to tell their family and they are rejected, we let them know that we will be there for them. And the same for those whose family reject them for believing in God. It goes both ways. There's enough ridicule on this board from athiests about those who believe. Trying to make out theists are less than intelligent, believe in fairy tales and so on and this is only a board. What is your problem? I have acknowledged that in my posts. Yes, if theists are shunned by their families that is a problem just like it is for atheists. No one has said that theists are less intelligent. Some have said that believing in gods is a fairy tale, yes I've seen that here. But why do you feel the need to point out how terrible it is for theists when atheists talk about their problems. Are you trying to negate our problems for some reason? Theists do not usually get shunned by atheist family. For one thing, atheists are not common in families and there is usually only one or two. So if a theist is shunned that is wrong and they deserve to have a community that supports them, and they do, other theists. Same thing when an atheist is shunned or is having problems adjusting to their new life. They should have a community to help them with that. By my posting and answering Janj's question about what we do in the groups, you seem to think I'm somehow dissing theists. I am answering their question in the most honest way I know how. I have stated facts but you still get all defensive and feel the need to point out that theists have problems too. I know they do. I've said they do. What are you going on about?
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Post by Grant on Oct 23, 2019 14:07:52 GMT -5
And the same for those whose family reject them for believing in God. It goes both ways. There's enough ridicule on this board from athiests about those who believe. Trying to make out theists are less than intelligent, believe in fairy tales and so on and this is only a board. What is your problem? I have acknowledged that in my posts. Yes, if theists are shunned by their families that is a problem just like it is for atheists. No one has said that theists are less intelligent. Some have said that believing in gods is a fairy tale, yes I've seen that here. But why do you feel the need to point out how terrible it is for theists when atheists talk about their problems. Are you trying to negate our problems for some reason? Theists do not usually get shunned by atheist family. For one thing, atheists are not common in families and there is usually only one or two. So if a theist is shunned that is wrong and they deserve to have a community that supports them, and they do, other theists. Same thing when an atheist is shunned or is having problems adjusting to their new life. They should have a community to help them with that. By my posting and answering Janj's question about what we do in the groups, you seem to think I'm somehow dissing theists. I am answering their question in the most honest way I know how. I have stated facts but you still get all defensive and feel the need to point out that theists have problems too. I know they do. I've said they do. What are you going on about? Curly for one has suggested on several occasions that theists are less than intelligent. Just as recently as a couple of days ago when I said that "it sure occurs the other way when people become believers in an unbelieving family" curly responded; "Yes I can understand that. They would be wondering why they bothered sending you to school."
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Post by snow on Oct 23, 2019 14:14:38 GMT -5
What is your problem? I have acknowledged that in my posts. Yes, if theists are shunned by their families that is a problem just like it is for atheists. No one has said that theists are less intelligent. Some have said that believing in gods is a fairy tale, yes I've seen that here. But why do you feel the need to point out how terrible it is for theists when atheists talk about their problems. Are you trying to negate our problems for some reason? Theists do not usually get shunned by atheist family. For one thing, atheists are not common in families and there is usually only one or two. So if a theist is shunned that is wrong and they deserve to have a community that supports them, and they do, other theists. Same thing when an atheist is shunned or is having problems adjusting to their new life. They should have a community to help them with that. By my posting and answering Janj's question about what we do in the groups, you seem to think I'm somehow dissing theists. I am answering their question in the most honest way I know how. I have stated facts but you still get all defensive and feel the need to point out that theists have problems too. I know they do. I've said they do. What are you going on about? Curly for one has suggested on several occasions that theists are lacking lacking in intelligence. Just as recently as a couple of days ago when I said that "it sure occurs the other way when people become believers in an unbelieving family" curly responded; "Yes I can understand that. They would be wondering why they bothered sending you to school." And I acknowledged exactly that when I said "Some have said that believing in gods is a fairy tale, yes I've seen that here'. I agreed. So I honestly don't know what you are on me about. Theists have said some pretty nasty things about atheists on here too. I've seen that too. I wish everyone would just understand that we all have more in common than not. That atheists aren't evil, immoral people with no meaning in their lives. Do you not think that atheists need mentor groups just like theists when they have to deal with relatives that believe differently from them and can be quite nasty about it?
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Post by Grant on Oct 23, 2019 14:21:30 GMT -5
Curly for one has suggested on several occasions that theists are lacking lacking in intelligence. Just as recently as a couple of days ago when I said that "it sure occurs the other way when people become believers in an unbelieving family" curly responded; "Yes I can understand that. They would be wondering why they bothered sending you to school." And I acknowledged exactly that when I said "Some have said that believing in gods is a fairy tale, yes I've seen that here'. I agreed. So I honestly don't know what you are on me about. Theists have said some pretty nasty things about atheists on here too. I've seen that too. I wish everyone would just understand that we all have more in common than not. That atheists aren't evil, immoral people with no meaning in their lives. Do you not think that atheists need mentor groups just like theists when they have to deal with relatives that believe differently from them and can be quite nasty about it? You clearly said, "no one has said that theists are less intelligent." Why is it a problem by saying rejection also occurs when athiests become theists. No one said athiests don't need mentor groups. You're the one getting defensive.
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Post by snow on Oct 23, 2019 14:35:17 GMT -5
And I acknowledged exactly that when I said "Some have said that believing in gods is a fairy tale, yes I've seen that here'. I agreed. So I honestly don't know what you are on me about. Theists have said some pretty nasty things about atheists on here too. I've seen that too. I wish everyone would just understand that we all have more in common than not. That atheists aren't evil, immoral people with no meaning in their lives. Do you not think that atheists need mentor groups just like theists when they have to deal with relatives that believe differently from them and can be quite nasty about it? You clearly said, "no one has said that theists are less intelligent." Why is it a problem by saying rejection also occurs when athiests become theists. No one said athiests don't need mentor groups. You're the one getting defensive. I don't recall anyone coming out and saying theists are less intelligent. If it's been said I am not one that believes that. When I am answering a question to someone about what we do in the groups and why we do it, and you come on posting that theists have that happen too, I have to wonder why you would even bother to say that. Especially when I said in that post that this happens to both groups and both groups deserve to have helpers with what they are going through. Why did you feel it was necessary to remind me of how badly theists are treated when 1. I acknowledged that it happens to both groups, and 2. the answer I was giving wasn't about how theists are treated in the first place. You seem to think that only theists on here are hard done by and take so much criticism by the atheists here. You conveniently ignore it when some pretty nasty stuff is directed at atheists here. It makes me wonder why you don't criticize those who are saying stuff about atheists? And I wasn't saying anything about anyone on here, I was explaining what we were doing in the group and what some people in the group experience.
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Post by Grant on Oct 23, 2019 14:48:18 GMT -5
I am perfectly in my right to say it happens the other way around too. No need to get upset by that. If it's written on a public board it's for anyone to comment.
I have spoken out about how Nathan condemns people who do not believe as he does and athiests.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 24, 2019 1:56:56 GMT -5
And it sure occurs the other way when people become believers in an unbelieving family. Also it’s just as traumatic when one leaves an only way Church but not Christ belief. Fact is, quitting because you no longer believe in God, is sometimes easier because you’re not being judgmental against the church per se plus your family thinks oh well they’ll be back because they never embraced another belief or church. But 2x2s take it and make it a sure sign you’re going to hell if you change churches! STR. How can you possibly know that it would have been "easier" for those of us who left because we "no longer believe in God?"
Not having been in our shoes, but in fact you have held on to a belief that had always been comforting to you, -you can't possibly know what we went through!
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