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Post by nathan on Nov 13, 2018 13:52:58 GMT -5
What you believe is just that, only a belief that no one can prove one way or the other. Just because someone says they are a god, does not make them a god, your god included. *** Well, Jesus did NOT only say HE IS GOD, but he showed many proof, such as healed the blind, the lepers, the lame, all kinds of dieases, walking on the water, feeding the 3000 and 5000 people with a few loaves of bread and fish. Jesus raised the dead and he also raised from the dead himself and live forever... That make a believer out of me, only God can forgive sins and Jesus forgave people sins. The winds, the sea and the fish obey, the sicknesses, at His command! No human being can perform these miracles but Only God/Jesus had done these mighty miracles.
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Post by snow on Nov 13, 2018 14:37:58 GMT -5
What you believe is just that, only a belief that no one can prove one way or the other. Just because someone says they are a god, does not make them a god, your god included. *** Well, Jesus did NOT only say HE IS GOD, but he showed many proof, such as healed the blind, the lepers, the lame, all kinds of dieases, walking on the water, feeding the 3000 and 5000 people with a few loaves of bread and fish. Jesus raised the dead and he also raised from the dead himself and live forever... That make a believer out of me, only God can forgive sins and Jesus forgave people sins. The winds, the sea and the fish obey, the sicknesses, at His command! No human being can perform these miracles but Only God/Jesus had done these mighty miracles. I thought you just said I was wrong and Jesus did say he was God?
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Post by nathan on Nov 13, 2018 14:44:50 GMT -5
*** Well, Jesus did NOT only say HE IS GOD, but he showed many proof, such as healed the blind, the lepers, the lame, all kinds of dieases, walking on the water, feeding the 3000 and 5000 people with a few loaves of bread and fish. Jesus raised the dead and he also raised from the dead himself and live forever... That make a believer out of me, only God can forgive sins and Jesus forgave people sins. The winds, the sea and the fish obey, the sicknesses, at His command! No human being can perform these miracles but Only God/Jesus had done these mighty miracles. I thought you just said I was wrong and Jesus did say he was God? ** Yes, I did say you are incorrect and in my post i wrote Jesus backed up his claimed with many miracles that HE IS GOD just like His heavenly Father and the Holy Spirit.
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Post by snow on Nov 13, 2018 14:46:42 GMT -5
I thought you just said I was wrong and Jesus did say he was God? ** Yes, I did say you are incorrect and in my post i wrote Jesus backed up his claimed with many miracles that HE IS GOD just like His heavenly Father and the Holy Spirit. So he never said he was God?
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Post by nathan on Nov 13, 2018 14:52:18 GMT -5
** Yes, I did say you are incorrect and in my post i wrote Jesus backed up his claimed with many miracles that HE IS GOD just like His heavenly Father and the Holy Spirit. So he never said he was God? ** I showed you the verses where Jesus said he is the ALMIGHTY God. Didn't you read them? On page 2.
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Post by snow on Nov 13, 2018 14:56:51 GMT -5
So he never said he was God? ** I showed you the verses where Jesus said he is the ALMIGHTY God. Didn't you read them? On page 2. Yes and that's been acknowledged. Then you told me that he never said he was God so now I'm really confused. Did Jesus say he was God or not? When I said he was honest and didn't say he was God, you said I was wrong. Then when I acknowledged that you found verses where he said he was God, you told me he never said he was God. Just did things that were kind of God like. So which is it Nathan.
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Post by xna on Nov 13, 2018 15:17:37 GMT -5
That's the fun thing about the bible, you can use it to justify just about any position. A verse against the trinity concept. If "Jesus" was "god" then; what "god knows" - "Jesus knows" ? Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. 10 Reasons why Jesus is not God!
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Post by nathan on Nov 13, 2018 15:58:34 GMT -5
** I showed you the verses where Jesus said he is the ALMIGHTY God. Didn't you read them? On page 2. Yes and that's been acknowledged. Then you told me that he never said he was God so now I'm really confused. Did Jesus say he was God or not? When I said he was honest and didn't say he was God, you said I was wrong. Then when I acknowledged that you found verses where he said he was God, you told me he never said he was God. Just did things that were kind of God like. So which is it Nathan. *** Let me clarify it... You wrote Jesus NEVER say he was God. So, I gave you verses in the New Test. Where Jesus said he is God Almighty. The following post I wrote jesus back up his claimed he was God by performing many miracles and that he is God just like the Father by forgiven people sins. ONLY God can forgive sins and Jesus did that during His ministry on earth.
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Post by DrPetros on Nov 13, 2018 16:30:10 GMT -5
I've been listening to a famous minister and he says we crucify Jesus again every time we sin and that we're driving nails in his hands all over again each time we sin. I am sincere about this question, because I know I'm a sinner. Really I think I'll rephrase my question to " .., Am I recrucifying Christ each time I sin ..?" Inatead of 'us' and 'we'. I just can't buy into this minister's statement. I mean ... Christ died for my sins. He suffered miserably for my sins ... I can agree that I should not continue to sin; but, I,can't agree I'm recrucifying him. Wonder what the truth is about this? It's essentially true, but if I was really being very nit-picky, then I'd argue that it's not true that someone recrucifies Jesus when they sin, because God's redemptive plan was (and is) once and for all - He cannot be recrucified, or re-suffer for us. However, this 're-crucifying' is not necessarily a bad way to think of it, and indeed the Catholic Church words it rather well: "Since our sins made the Lord Christ suffer the torment of the cross, those who plunge themselves into disorders and crimes crucify the Son of God anew in their hearts (for he is in them) and hold him up to contempt" (CCC 598).
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Post by snow on Nov 13, 2018 17:37:09 GMT -5
Yes and that's been acknowledged. Then you told me that he never said he was God so now I'm really confused. Did Jesus say he was God or not? When I said he was honest and didn't say he was God, you said I was wrong. Then when I acknowledged that you found verses where he said he was God, you told me he never said he was God. Just did things that were kind of God like. So which is it Nathan. *** Let me clarify it... You wrote Jesus NEVER say he was God. So, I gave you verses in the New Test. Where Jesus said he is God Almighty. The following post I wrote jesus back up his claimed he was God by performing many miracles and that he is God just like the Father by forgiven people sins. ONLY God can forgive sins and Jesus did that during His ministry on earth. How could Jesus back up his claim that he's God when you say he never said he was God, just did God like things? I think that this conversation has reached a level of redundancy. I can't seem to get a clear answer from you whether Jesus ever said he was God or not. I was wrong to say he never said he was God, and I was wrong to say that if Jesus said he was God (which you say he did) then we only have his word for that. We don't know that the bible is right and we don't have any way to prove it one way or the other. So back to my opening thoughts. Gods can't be Gods based solely on their claim that they are. And the bible can't be right just because the God that has supposed to have written it said so. That's the problem with Gods. They aren't provable. Now if they would show up and perform a bunch of things no other person can perform then we might have more believers. But that isn't happening is it. We have no being doing anything out of the usual. We have zero proof that Jesus did anything out of the usual either. You can't prove something with only one source stating it. You can bet that if Jesus was actually performing the things that the bible says he did, there would be outsiders (non Christians) that would write about such things. There is no one that is a non Christian that writes of Jesus walking on Water. There is no one talking about feeding all these people on a few loaves of bread and fishes. These things would be astounding even today, so why would the world be so silent about these things and only Christians seem to have written about them or even known them. It makes it quite unlikely because humans if they saw these things actually happening they would definitely record that in some source other than a Christian oriented book. Right?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2018 17:48:26 GMT -5
*** Let me clarify it... You wrote Jesus NEVER say he was God. So, I gave you verses in the New Test. Where Jesus said he is God Almighty. The following post I wrote jesus back up his claimed he was God by performing many miracles and that he is God just like the Father by forgiven people sins. ONLY God can forgive sins and Jesus did that during His ministry on earth. How could Jesus back up his claim that he's God when you say he never said he was God, just did God like things? I think that this conversation has reached a level of redundancy. I can't seem to get a clear answer from you whether Jesus ever said he was God or not. I was wrong to say he never said he was God, and I was wrong to say that if Jesus said he was God (which you say he did) then we only have his word for that. We don't know that the bible is right and we don't have any way to prove it one way or the other. So back to my opening thoughts. Gods can't be Gods based solely on their claim that they are. And the bible can't be right just because the God that has supposed to have written it said so. That's the problem with Gods. They aren't provable. Now if they would show up and perform a bunch of things no other person can perform then we might have more believers. But that isn't happening is it. We have no being doing anything out of the usual. We have zero proof that Jesus did anything out of the usual either. You can't prove something with only one source stating it. You can bet that if Jesus was actually performing the things that the bible says he did, there would be outsiders (non Christians) that would write about such things. There is no one that is a non Christian that writes of Jesus walking on Water. There is no one talking about feeding all these people on a few loaves of bread and fishes. These things would be astounding even today, so why would the world be so silent about these things and only Christians seem to have written about them or even known them. It makes it quite unlikely because humans if they saw these things actually happening they would definitely record that in some source other than a Christian oriented book. Right? you arrived 2 thousand years too late snow...he already came and showed he could do stuff...you just were not there to see it....
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Post by intelchips on Nov 13, 2018 17:54:25 GMT -5
The Bible is RIGHT because God said it and his words are TRUE! Jesus death was foreordain by God to pay the ransom price to redeem the humans. The men/Jewish counsel and the Romans army didn't have much of a choice, they just fulfilled God's plan of Salvation.
So if your God says he's right, then he's right? So when Buddha says he's right, then he's right? When Zeus says he's right, then he's right? When Thor says he's right, then he's right? They can't all be right, but if you decide that just because YOUR God said he right, so therefore he's right, you may be mistaken. How would anyone determine which God is right, just because they say they are right? If you really think about it, and are honest with yourself, you will see that just because a God says they are right, that isn't enough proof. There is no proof that the God of the bible is the right God anymore than any of the other Gods are 'right' Gods. People are the ones making that choice and decision but there is no way of knowing for sure if any of them are right or even exist in the first place. Don't forget Loki, when he says he's right its just a joke!
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Post by snow on Nov 13, 2018 17:58:53 GMT -5
How could Jesus back up his claim that he's God when you say he never said he was God, just did God like things? I think that this conversation has reached a level of redundancy. I can't seem to get a clear answer from you whether Jesus ever said he was God or not. I was wrong to say he never said he was God, and I was wrong to say that if Jesus said he was God (which you say he did) then we only have his word for that. We don't know that the bible is right and we don't have any way to prove it one way or the other. So back to my opening thoughts. Gods can't be Gods based solely on their claim that they are. And the bible can't be right just because the God that has supposed to have written it said so. That's the problem with Gods. They aren't provable. Now if they would show up and perform a bunch of things no other person can perform then we might have more believers. But that isn't happening is it. We have no being doing anything out of the usual. We have zero proof that Jesus did anything out of the usual either. You can't prove something with only one source stating it. You can bet that if Jesus was actually performing the things that the bible says he did, there would be outsiders (non Christians) that would write about such things. There is no one that is a non Christian that writes of Jesus walking on Water. There is no one talking about feeding all these people on a few loaves of bread and fishes. These things would be astounding even today, so why would the world be so silent about these things and only Christians seem to have written about them or even known them. It makes it quite unlikely because humans if they saw these things actually happening they would definitely record that in some source other than a Christian oriented book. Right? you arrived 2 thousand years too late snow...he already came and showed he could do stuff...you just were not there to see it.... That makes no sense Wally. The likelihood of it being a legitimate claim is so low it isn't even sensible to think that some God would come only once to conduct his miracles. And the likelihood that no other group of people wouldn't comment on all these things he was supposed to have done, is also low. You can bet if he really did all those things, there would be something written about it by some other group that weren't Christian. That's the point. I'm not the only one that apparently missed it. All the other groups that even lived at that time must have missed it too, because their is nothing at all from them.
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Post by snow on Nov 13, 2018 17:59:23 GMT -5
So if your God says he's right, then he's right? So when Buddha says he's right, then he's right? When Zeus says he's right, then he's right? When Thor says he's right, then he's right? They can't all be right, but if you decide that just because YOUR God said he right, so therefore he's right, you may be mistaken. How would anyone determine which God is right, just because they say they are right? If you really think about it, and are honest with yourself, you will see that just because a God says they are right, that isn't enough proof. There is no proof that the God of the bible is the right God anymore than any of the other Gods are 'right' Gods. People are the ones making that choice and decision but there is no way of knowing for sure if any of them are right or even exist in the first place. Don't forget Loki, when he says he's right its just a joke! LOL that's true.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2018 18:19:09 GMT -5
you arrived 2 thousand years too late snow...he already came and showed he could do stuff...you just were not there to see it.... That makes no sense Wally. The likelihood of it being a legitimate claim is so low it isn't even sensible to think that some God would come only once to conduct his miracles. And the likelihood that no other group of people wouldn't comment on all these things he was supposed to have done, is also low. You can bet if he really did all those things, there would be something written about it by some other group that weren't Christian. That's the point. I'm not the only one that apparently missed it. All the other groups that even lived at that time must have missed it too, because their is nothing at all from them. asking him to perform miracles just for the sake of a miracle is tempting God i believe.
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Post by nathan on Nov 13, 2018 18:32:51 GMT -5
How could Jesus back up his claim that he's God when you say he never said he was God, just did God like things? I think that this conversation has reached a level of redundancy. I can't seem to get a clear answer from you whether Jesus ever said he was God or not. I was wrong to say he never said he was God, and I was wrong to say that if Jesus said he was God (which you say he did) then we only have his word for that. We don't know that the bible is right and we don't have any way to prove it one way or the other. So back to my opening thoughts. Gods can't be Gods based solely on their claim that they are. And the bible can't be right just because the God that has supposed to have written it said so. That's the problem with Gods. They aren't provable. Now if they would show up and perform a bunch of things no other person can perform then we might have more believers. But that isn't happening is it. We have no being doing anything out of the usual. We have zero proof that Jesus did anything out of the usual either. You can't prove something with only one source stating it. You can bet that if Jesus was actually performing the things that the bible says he did, there would be outsiders (non Christians) that would write about such things. There is no one that is a non Christian that writes of Jesus walking on Water. There is no one talking about feeding all these people on a few loaves of bread and fishes. These things would be astounding even today, so why would the world be so silent about these things and only Christians seem to have written about them or even known them. It makes it quite unlikely because humans if they saw these things actually happening they would definitely record that in some source other than a Christian oriented book. Right? you arrived 2 thousand years too late snow...he already came and showed he could do stuff...you just were not there to see it.... There are people like Snow, who don't understand ... The Word God/Elohim refers to the Father, Christ and Holy Spirit= Plurals. MANY believe the word God refers ONLY to the Father, so there's the confusion in her post.
In Genesis 1 God/Elohim= Plural said, "Let US create man in OUR image and in OUR likenes." John the apostle tell us in I John 7:7 For there THREE that bear record in heaven, The Father, the Word/Christ, and the Holy Spirit and these THREE are ONE in agreement.
So, the word God/El refers to the Father, Christ or Holy Spirit. But when the word God/Elohim means plural refers to God as WE, US, and OUR... The THREE of them together.
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Post by snow on Nov 13, 2018 18:34:53 GMT -5
That makes no sense Wally. The likelihood of it being a legitimate claim is so low it isn't even sensible to think that some God would come only once to conduct his miracles. And the likelihood that no other group of people wouldn't comment on all these things he was supposed to have done, is also low. You can bet if he really did all those things, there would be something written about it by some other group that weren't Christian. That's the point. I'm not the only one that apparently missed it. All the other groups that even lived at that time must have missed it too, because their is nothing at all from them. asking him to perform miracles just for the sake of a miracle is tempting God i believe. No, it's confirming God. And, if he wants everyone to understand him, he would know that some people need facts to be able to know. He either doesn't care for everyone and doesn't take into consideration how some of us are made (which he supposedly did in the first place), or he isn't capable of showing himself more than once, or he doesn't exist in the first place. I am more than willing to acknowledge a God if I just had some evidence one existed. But the fact is, there is no viable proof of any Gods existence. And, if there is a God, that God if he is all powerful, all loving and all knowing, should know that he has made many different kinds of people in this world. And, that he would need to interact differently with all the different kinds of people for them to be able to know he exists and to have a personal relationship with him/her. But that's not happening. There is no evidence that any of the Gods people believe in have ever existed anywhere but in people's minds and belief systems. There may very well be an intelligent 'overseer' of all that is. But that doesn't mean that intelligent being cares about us or what we do. That there is a reward just for keeping a few measly commandments. The way I see it, the reward for being a good person is recognized in this life we are living right now. It shouldn't have anything to do with a reward in a life after this one where it does no good in this existence. I also don't see a being like a God ever throwing his creation into a place of torture for eternity. That is a useless exercise. It isn't even something that most humans would do. Why would anyone think that an all loving father type figure would do something that horrendous. It makes no sense.
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Post by snow on Nov 13, 2018 18:37:22 GMT -5
you arrived 2 thousand years too late snow...he already came and showed he could do stuff...you just were not there to see it.... There are people like Snow, who don't understand ... The Word God/Elohim refers to the Father, Christ and Holy Spirit= Plurals. MANY believe the word God refers ONLY to the Father, so there's the confusion in her post.
In Genesis 1 God/Elohim= Plural said, "Let US create man in OUR image and in OUR likenes." John the apostle tell us in I John 7:7 For there THREE that bear record in heaven, The Father, the Word/Christ, and the Holy Spirit and these THREE are ONE in agreement.
No. The confusion is from you. You posted that I was wrong when I said that Jesus never said he was a god and you quoted verses to try and back that claim. Then when I said he did say he was God you said that he didn't. He only did things that were god like in nature. You can't prove something is true just by saying it is true. You can believe it all you like, but the evidence is missing.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2018 18:40:46 GMT -5
asking him to perform miracles just for the sake of a miracle is tempting God i believe. No, it's confirming God. And, if he wants everyone to understand him, he would know that some people need facts to be able to know. He either doesn't care for everyone and doesn't take into consideration how some of us are made (which he supposedly did in the first place), or he isn't capable of showing himself more than once, or he doesn't exist in the first place. I am more than willing to acknowledge a God if I just had some evidence one existed. But the fact is, there is no viable proof of any Gods existence. And, if there is a God, that God if he is all powerful, all loving and all knowing, should know that he has made many different kinds of people in this world. And, that he would need to interact differently with all the different kinds of people for them to be able to know he exists and to have a personal relationship with him/her. But that's not happening. There is no evidence that any of the Gods people believe in have ever existed anywhere but in people's minds and belief systems. There may very well be an intelligent 'overseer' of all that is. But that doesn't mean that intelligent being cares about us or what we do. That there is a reward just for keeping a few measly commandments. The way I see it, the reward for being a good person is recognized in this life we are living right now. It shouldn't have anything to do with a reward in a life after this one where it does no good in this existence. I also don't see a being like a God ever throwing his creation into a place of torture for eternity. That is a useless exercise. It isn't even something that most humans would do. Why would anyone think that an all loving father type figure would do something that horrendous. It makes no sense. its a time of faith now he laid out all the facts over the first 4033.5 years ago read hebrews 11 on faith....
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2018 18:42:59 GMT -5
There are people like Snow, who don't understand ... The Word God/Elohim refers to the Father, Christ and Holy Spirit= Plurals. MANY believe the word God refers ONLY to the Father, so there's the confusion in her post.
In Genesis 1 God/Elohim= Plural said, "Let US create man in OUR image and in OUR likenes." John the apostle tell us in I John 7:7 For there THREE that bear record in heaven, The Father, the Word/Christ, and the Holy Spirit and these THREE are ONE in agreement.
No. The confusion is from you. You posted that I was wrong when I said that Jesus never said he was a god and you quoted verses to try and back that claim. Then when I said he did say he was God you said that he didn't. He only did things that were god like in nature. You can't prove something is true just by saying it is true. You can believe it all you like, but the evidence is missing. i am looking at nathans posts and i don't see where he said "that he didn't" could you point me to the post where he said that?
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Post by nathan on Nov 13, 2018 18:47:21 GMT -5
There are people like Snow, who don't understand ... The Word God/Elohim refers to the Father, Christ and Holy Spirit= Plurals. MANY believe the word God refers ONLY to the Father, so there's the confusion in her post.
In Genesis 1 God/Elohim= Plural said, "Let US create man in OUR image and in OUR likenes." John the apostle tell us in I John 7:7 For there THREE that bear record in heaven, The Father, the Word/Christ, and the Holy Spirit and these THREE are ONE in agreement.
No. The confusion is from you. You posted that I was wrong when I said that Jesus never said he was a god and you quoted verses to try and back that claim. Then when I said he did say he was God you said that he didn't. He only did things that were god like in nature. You can't prove something is true just by saying it is true. You can believe it all you like, but the evidence is missing. I have always said Jesus is God/the Son. I have NEVER said he was NOT God. I have written Christ is NOT God the Father but the Son/God.
You wrote, "Then when I said he did say he was God you said that he didn't." SHOW me in my post, where I said or wrote he/Jesus was NOT God, thanks.
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Post by intelchips on Nov 13, 2018 20:07:43 GMT -5
No. The confusion is from you. You posted that I was wrong when I said that Jesus never said he was a god and you quoted verses to try and back that claim. Then when I said he did say he was God you said that he didn't. He only did things that were god like in nature. You can't prove something is true just by saying it is true. You can believe it all you like, but the evidence is missing. I have always said Jesus is God/the Son. I have NEVER said he was NOT God. I have written Christ is NOT God the Father but the Son/God.
You wrote, "Then when I said he did say he was God you said that he didn't." SHOW me in my post, where I said or wrote he/Jesus was NOT God, thanks.
Nathan, I must think you have no idea of the etymology (the study of the origin of words and the way in which their meanings have changed throughout history) when you throw the words God, El, Elohim around like it really hold some important meaning. Which one of the many Els are you speaking of? I believe you are using the documentary hypothesis developed originally in the 1870s which were identified by certain authors such as - Jahwist, Elohist, Deuteronomist, and the Priestly source - who were responsible for editing stories from a polytheistic religion into those of a monotheistic religion. Thus you are just as confused as they were.
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Post by nathan on Nov 13, 2018 20:31:42 GMT -5
I have always said Jesus is God/the Son. I have NEVER said he was NOT God. I have written Christ is NOT God the Father but the Son/God.
You wrote, "Then when I said he did say he was God you said that he didn't." SHOW me in my post, where I said or wrote he/Jesus was NOT God, thanks.
Nathan, I must think you have no idea of the etymology (the study of the origin of words and the way in which their meanings have changed throughout history) when you throw the words God, El, Elohim around like it really hold some important meaning. Which one of the many Els are you speaking of? I believe you are using the documentary hypothesis developed originally in the 1870s which were identified by certain authors such as - Jahwist, Elohist, Deuteronomist, and the Priestly source - who were responsible for editing stories from a polytheistic religion into those of a monotheistic religion. Thus you are just as confused as they were. Elohim (Hebrew: אֱלֹהִים [ʔɛloːˈhim]) in the Hebrew Bible refers to deities, and is one of the many names or titles for God in the Hebrew Bible. The word is identical to the usual plural of el, meaning gods or magistrates. Most uses of the term Elohim in the later Hebrew text imply a view that is at least monolatrist at the time of writing, and such usage (in the singular), as a proper title for the supreme deity, is generally not considered to be synonymous with the term elohim, "gods" (plural, simple noun). Hebrew grammar allows for this nominally plural form to mean "He is the Power (singular) over powers (plural)", or roughly, "God of gods". Elohim is a grammatically plural noun for "gods" or "deities" in Biblical Hebrew. In Hebrew, the ending -im normally indicates a masculine plural. However, when referring to the Hebrew God, Elohim is usually understood to be grammatically singular (i.e. it governs a singular verb or adjective). In Modern Hebrew, it is often referred to in the singular despite the -im ending that denotes plural masculine nouns in Hebrew. The word el (singular) is a standard term for "god" in Aramaic. The Hebrew Bible uses various names for God. According to the documentary hypothesis these variations are the products of different source texts: Elohim is the name of God. J presents Yahweh anthropomorphically: for example, walking through the Garden of Eden looking for Adam and Eve. The Elohist often presents Elohim as more distant and frequently involves angels, as in the Elohist version of the tale of Jacob's Ladder, in which there is a ladder to the clouds, with angels climbing up and down, with Elohim at the top. In the Jahwist tale, Yahweh is simply stationed in the sky, above the clouds without the ladder or angels. Likewise, the Elohist describes Jacob wrestling with an angel. Elohim occurs frequently throughout the Torah. In some cases (e.g. Exodus 3:4, "Elohim called unto him out of the midst of the bush ..."), it behaves like a singular noun in Hebrew grammar, and is then generally understood to denote the single God of Israel. In other cases, Elohim acts as an ordinary plural of the word Eloah, and refers to the polytheistic notion of multiple gods (for example, Exodus 20:3, "You shall have no other gods before me"). The word Elohim occurs more than 2500 times in the Hebrew Bible. Elohim With plural verb
In 1 Samuel 28:13, elohim is used with a plural verb. The witch of Endor told Saul that she saw elohim ascending (olim עֹלִים, plural verb) out of the earth. In Genesis 20:13, Abraham, before the polytheistic Philistine king Abimelech, says that "Elohim (translated as God) caused (התעו, plural verb) me to wander". Elohim With singular verb
Elohim, when meaning the God of Israel, is mostly grammatically singular, and is commonly translated as "God", and capitalised. For example, in Genesis 1:26, it is written: "Then Elohim (translated as God) said (singular verb), 'Let us (plural) make (plural verb) man in our (plural) image, after our (plural) likeness'". Wilhelm Gesenius and other Hebrew grammarians traditionally described this as the pluralis excellentiae (plural of excellence), which is similar to the pluralis majestatis (plural of majesty, or "Royal we"). en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elohim
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Post by intelchips on Nov 14, 2018 8:02:54 GMT -5
Excellent research Nathan, but do you understand it? how do you explain: The image on pottery found at Kuntillet Ajrud where the inscriptions include "Yahweh of Samaria and his Asherah" and "Yahweh of Teman and his Asherah." and the Image on pottery found at Kuntillet Ajrud with inscriptions that include "Yahweh of Samaria and his Asherah" and "Yahweh of Teman and his Asherah." Would it not be logical to say God had a wife? All this was understood until the Babylon exile. When the Jews came back from Persia it seems they forgot their history.
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Post by nathan on Nov 14, 2018 8:40:30 GMT -5
Excellent research Nathan, but do you understand it? how do you explain: The image on pottery found at Kuntillet Ajrud where the inscriptions include "Yahweh of Samaria and his Asherah" and "Yahweh of Teman and his Asherah." and the Image on pottery found at Kuntillet Ajrud with inscriptions that include "Yahweh of Samaria and his Asherah" and "Yahweh of Teman and his Asherah." Would it not be logical to say God had a wife? All this was understood until the Babylon exile. When the Jews came back from Persia it seems they forgot their history. God is Spirit. God the Father, Christ and Holy Spirit are Spirits. He doesn't have a wife or need a wife. Why, does God need a wife for?
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Post by intelchips on Nov 14, 2018 10:30:26 GMT -5
Excellent research Nathan, but do you understand it? how do you explain: The image on pottery found at Kuntillet Ajrud where the inscriptions include "Yahweh of Samaria and his Asherah" and "Yahweh of Teman and his Asherah." and the Image on pottery found at Kuntillet Ajrud with inscriptions that include "Yahweh of Samaria and his Asherah" and "Yahweh of Teman and his Asherah." Would it not be logical to say God had a wife? All this was understood until the Babylon exile. When the Jews came back from Persia it seems they forgot their history. God is Spirit. God the Father, Christ and Holy Spirit are Spirits. He doesn't have a wife or need a wife. Why, does God need a wife for? Well Nathan, that is not the point. You seem to overlook the importance of what people living in the time when God was supposedly to have spoken directly to humans of what those people actual thought about it. If they thought God had a wife is more important then if you feel he doesn't need a wife. They made art, pottery and left alters behind. In those artifacts we can find what they thought about the world around them. I think it of more importance what they thought about their world then what you claim they should have thought all these many years later.
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Post by nathan on Nov 14, 2018 12:36:40 GMT -5
God is Spirit. God the Father, Christ and Holy Spirit are Spirits. He doesn't have a wife or need a wife. Why, does God need a wife for? Well Nathan, that is not the point. You seem to overlook the importance of what people living in the time when God was supposedly to have spoken directly to humans of what those people actual thought about it. If they thought God had a wife is more important then if you feel he doesn't need a wife. They made art, pottery and left alters behind. In those artifacts we can find what they thought about the world around them. I think it of more importance what they thought about their world then what you claim they should have thought all these many years later. *** Back in the old days, the Godhead did not reveal themselves to most people, except to some children of Israel. Even, some of these people had very little clues about God the Father, Christ and Holy Spirit let alone about his wife. God's wife is the humans guessing about God. They had no clue who God was.
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Post by snow on Nov 14, 2018 12:41:48 GMT -5
No. The confusion is from you. You posted that I was wrong when I said that Jesus never said he was a god and you quoted verses to try and back that claim. Then when I said he did say he was God you said that he didn't. He only did things that were god like in nature. You can't prove something is true just by saying it is true. You can believe it all you like, but the evidence is missing. i am looking at nathans posts and i don't see where he said "that he didn't" could you point me to the post where he said that? You know I think you're right. Sorry nathan. I missed the not in one of his posts when I thought he said he didn't say he was God. That completely contradicted his telling me had said Jesus said he was god. Missing the 'not' totally changed it for me and I was confused. Obviously I am confused. Thanks for pointing that out Wally.
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