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Post by Get off of TMB on Nov 6, 2018 15:42:28 GMT -5
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Post by magpie1 on Nov 6, 2018 22:38:32 GMT -5
How sad the evangel/gospel closes for a season. Those searching hearts cannot share this magnificent facility,and insread have to wait for something that should be available 365/24/7,the Gospel of Jesus Christ.. If the seeking/empty heart passes away through the Convention Gospel furlow,"to bad"right? Well thankfully many others don't neglect Jesus commands. www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT5u2xVEO5M .. www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTivYFXWCs .. I thought the beautiful hymn tune first. Magpie
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Post by magpie1 on Nov 6, 2018 22:42:14 GMT -5
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Post by speak on Nov 6, 2018 22:52:42 GMT -5
How sad the evangel/gospel closes for a season. Those searching hearts cannot share this magnificent facility,and insread have to wait for something that should be available 365/24/7,the Gospel of Jesus Christ.. If the seeking/empty heart passes away through the Convention Gospel furlow,"to bad"right? Well thankfully many others don't neglect Jesus commands. www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT5u2xVEO5M .. www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTivYFXWCs .. I thought the beautiful hymn tune first. Magpie You don't understand God. No matter who passes away anywhere anytime God knows who are His and none would be lost. It must be very sad for you to be so negative and critical, definitely not the traits of a Christ life.
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Post by magpie1 on Nov 6, 2018 23:00:25 GMT -5
G'day Speak The "Irvine Doctrine",outside the "Illusive"box,you are unsaved. Yes,aren't we glad God is the Judge,not the Ministry of such a terrible judgemental "doctrine" as that. When we left to expand our Christian walk,I was told that "YOU HAVE BOUGHT A TICKET TO DAMNATION",that person held that view to their death bed. Magpie.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2018 2:10:50 GMT -5
Great video, sad to see such a lovely place close. That highway looks like a problem. Same thing happened to our beautiful Dandenong in Australia many years ago. Love the hymn as background, Alan Jackson is great. perhaps it should have been the last hymn sang at Apopka. youtu.be/QCV5t8wRBI8
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Post by Get off of TMB on Nov 9, 2018 19:00:36 GMT -5
I think that Florida convention was at Ocala before Apopka.
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Post by tuesday on Nov 9, 2018 21:51:26 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing this wonderful video.
For me, convention is such a beautiful time, and there are many things about convention that make it easier for me to feel close to God. Things like staying on the convention grounds, singing grace together, hushed voices at nighttime, catching up with likeminded family and friends, getting away from my busy daily life, time away from technology. "...The desert blooms as paradise, for God is with his people there...." It's God who uses convention to help us. And I'm thankful that God reminds me that all of these things are just icing on the cake, not essential but beautiful and wonderful nevertheless.
I do feel sad for changes like a convention closing, but perhaps changes like this will help us to refocus on God so we can remember God is with us all day every day regardless of where we are.
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Post by Get off of TMB on Nov 10, 2018 6:01:47 GMT -5
hushed voices at nighttime &&&
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Post by Get off of TMB on Nov 15, 2018 20:16:21 GMT -5
Has Kelvin Naef seen this video? Does he approve this video?
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Post by nathan on Nov 16, 2018 8:59:19 GMT -5
...I do feel sad for changes like a convention closing, but perhaps changes like this will help us to refocus on God so we can remember God is with us all day every day regardless of where we are. I think God has to bring about the demise of everything natural this particular Church of people has put their faith in because they have put their trust in the machinations of the system and neglected the weightier matters. We are captives in an Egypt of our own making. Well, we read in the gospel, the book of Acts and the epistles... the converts or follow of Jesus Christ put their trust in Jesus, and the apostles and their own fellowship. Acts 2:41-42 So those who received Peter's word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls. And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.
Are they WRONG for devoting to the apostles teachings and the fellowship with Jesus.
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Post by nathan on Nov 16, 2018 13:56:20 GMT -5
nathanBased on your question you fail to understand my point. IMO, the workers seem to be more devoted to the System than the teachings of Jesus or the fellowship. Not all but those devoted to the Gospel and the well being of the "Flock" are definitely in the minority. *** The system the workers devoted are of Jesus the ministry without homes and the churches/assembly of believers meet in the homes to worship God in Spirit and in truth with the like minded believers. The overseers just have different ways of handling problems, issuses, doctrines. The United States are made up more than 50 states, and each state has their own laws, and regulations to govern by.
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Post by tuesday on Nov 16, 2018 20:01:07 GMT -5
Like you mentioned, Nathan, each state has their own way of doing things. I guess that conventions are done differently in different parts of the world, some in tents on farms, some in public hired halls, some with overnight accommodation for 5 days, some only a few meetings over 2 days, sometimes no conventions at all. The way we do convention is not the main thing. The purpose of convention is to help us grow spiritually.
I think what Mr42 (correct me if I'm wrong) and myself are trying to say is that when something like our own particular way of doing convention is changed or taken away, it can be a “wake up call” that forces us to focus on Jesus and focus on fellowship. I think we can be devoted to apostle teachings + fellowship without being devoted to convention-on-a-farm.
“Vain creeds of men are sure to fail, false theories pass away… alone shall truth for men avail on that great judgment day…”
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Post by nathan on Nov 17, 2018 1:14:31 GMT -5
Like you mentioned, Nathan, each state has their own way of doing things. I guess that conventions are done differently in different parts of the world, some in tents on farms, some in public hired halls, some with overnight accommodation for 5 days, some only a few meetings over 2 days, sometimes no conventions at all. The way we do convention is not the main thing. The purpose of convention is to help us grow spiritually. I think what Mr42 (correct me if I'm wrong) and myself are trying to say is that when something like our own particular way of doing convention is changed or taken away, it can be a “wake up call” that forces us to focus on Jesus and focus on fellowship. I think we can be devoted to apostle teachings + fellowship without being devoted to convention-on-a-farm. “Vain creeds of men are sure to fail, false theories pass away… alone shall truth for men avail on that great judgment day…” Pretty much. We do many things simply because that's what we've always done. Not because they are expedient or effective or even scriptural. We do and say things today which are NOT in the Bible, such as the word Bible is NOT in the Bible but we use it all the time. Like the word Trinity is NOT in the Bible but we use it all the time. And the terminologies brother workers, sister workers, the friends are NOT in the Bible but the 2x2s use it daily. Conventions and special meetings are good time for us believers to get our focus in the right direction on what is the MOST important thing in life are spiritual things, which last forever! Time to rest our weary minds, from the hustle and bustle and the cares and the stress of life.
Conventions time are good to recharge and fill our minds the things of God. Many have come to believe in Jesus when the workers test the meetings on Sat and Sunday nights. My brother and I professed on Guam first convention in 1980.
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Post by tuesday on Nov 17, 2018 1:54:55 GMT -5
Pretty much. We do many things simply because that's what we've always done. Not because they are expedient or effective or even scriptural. We do and say things today which are NOT in the Bible, such as the word Bible is NOT in the Bible but we use it all the time. Like the word Trinity is NOT in the Bible but we use it all the time. And the terminologies brother workers, sister workers, the friends are NOT in the Bible but the 2x2s use it daily. Conventions and special meetings are good time for us believers to get our focus in the right direction on what is the MOST important thing in life are spiritual things, which last forever! Time to rest our weary minds, from the hustle and bustle and the cares and the stress of life.
Conventions time are good to recharge and fill our minds the things of God. Many have come to believe in Jesus when the workers test the meetings on Sat and Sunday nights. My brother and I professed on Guam first convention in 1980.
I agree - conventions are wonderful.
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Post by nathan on Nov 17, 2018 9:30:48 GMT -5
We do and say things today which are NOT in the Bible, such as the word Bible is NOT in the Bible but we use it all the time. Like the word Trinity is NOT in the Bible but we use it all the time. And the terminologies brother workers, sister workers, the friends are NOT in the Bible but the 2x2s use it daily. Conventions and special meetings are good time for us believers to get our focus in the right direction on what is the MOST important thing in life are spiritual things, which last forever! Time to rest our weary minds, from the hustle and bustle and the cares and the stress of life.
Conventions time are good to recharge and fill our minds the things of God. Many have come to believe in Jesus when the workers test the meetings on Sat and Sunday nights. My brother and I professed on Guam first convention in 1980.
I agree - conventions are wonderful. Amen, Tues. Conventions and Sunday morning worship fellowship is a foretaste of HEAVEN on earth, we will continue ENJOY DOING the same type of fellowship with God and believers throughout Eternity after this life is over.
We read in Rev. where all the good angels, 24 elders, and a great multitude of people have been called out through believing in the gospel of Christ. They came from every nations and generation on earth gathering around and worshiping, praising the Godhead, singing hymns before God the Father sitting on the throne, and Christ/Jesus the Lamb of God standing in the Center to be praised, honor and worshiped for ALL his sacrifice, who Redeem us from sins and death.
Rev. 5: 5-14 And one of the elders said to me, “Weep no more; behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered (death) so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals.”
And between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders I saw a Lamb standing, as though it had been slain, with seven horns and with seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth. 7 And he went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who was seated on the throne. 8 And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. And they sang a new song, saying,
“Worthy are you to take the scroll and to open its seals, for you were slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God from every tribe and language and people and nation, and you have made them a kingdom and priests to our God, and they shall reign on the earth.”
Then I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, 12 saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!”
And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying, “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!”
And the four living creatures said, “Amen!” and the elders fell down and worshiped.
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Post by Get off of TMB on Nov 19, 2018 20:37:39 GMT -5
I wonder how people will feel about a convention at a fair grounds?
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Post by Dennis J on Nov 20, 2018 1:49:37 GMT -5
Just wondering...how each of you, loving conventions, giving of your best, would think and feel, if you were stopped at the driveway entrance of the grounds by a couple of cult followers, told you were unwelcome there and if you did not leave, or came back the police would keep you away? Why? All because of absolutely and totally false accusation by a wealthy sycophant and his wife who had a senile overseer in their wallet?
In the thirty years since, not one worker has shown either grace or grief to me nor mine. Not one! However my deception was so great that is what I needed to eventually learn what I have. Nonetheless, fool that I am, I still love them. Not one can say I did not give them and that system the very best of my health, strength, and youth and continue to this very day to pay a price in pain and immobility for the trust I put in them and it.
There simply is no end to the sorrow and grief I have paid over the decades for being so stupid as to believe the indoctrination forced upon me from my very conception! Yes, that was my fault, easy enough to see that now, not so then. Reading in this forum, I grieve even worse for many of you. As I proclaimed then, I will go to my grave proclaiming complete innocence in the matters of which I was accused, and that day draws very near.
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Post by nathan on Nov 20, 2018 8:56:37 GMT -5
Just wondering...how each of you, loving conventions, giving of your best, would think and feel, if you were stopped at the driveway entrance of the grounds by a couple of cult followers, told you were unwelcome there and if you did not leave, or came back the police would keep you away? Why? All because of absolutely and totally false accusation by a wealthy sycophant and his wife who had a senile overseer in their wallet?
In the thirty years since, not one worker has shown either grace or grief to me nor mine. Not one! However my deception was so great that is what I needed to eventually learn what I have. Nonetheless, fool that I am, I still love them. Not one can say I did not give them and that system the very best of my health, strength, and youth and continue to this very day to pay a price in pain and immobility for the trust I put in them and it.
There simply is no end to the sorrow and grief I have paid over the decades for being so stupid as to believe the indoctrination forced upon me from my very conception! Yes, that was my fault, easy enough to see that now, not so then. Reading in this forum, I grieve even worse for many of you. As I proclaimed then, I will go to my grave proclaiming complete innocence in the matters of which I was accused, and that day draws very near.
How can they respect you or want having anything to do with you, when you call the 2x2 as CULT followers? and workers as sycophants? That is NOT a good way to build the bridge, you know.
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Post by Dennis J on Nov 20, 2018 9:30:52 GMT -5
Having described that “work” a cult has resulted because it acts like a cult, has occured only after experiencing it as such. I spent long years trying to build a bridge, doesn’t work with cults. You constantly prove that.
By the way, I thought you claimed you were never going to address me again in this forum.
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Post by nathan on Nov 20, 2018 11:29:41 GMT -5
Having described that “work” a cult has resulted because it acts like a cult, has occured only after experiencing it as such. I spent long years trying to build a bridge, doesn’t work with cults. You constantly prove that.
By the way, I thought you claimed you were never going to address me again in this forum. ** Sorry, I can't help myself after reading your post. Some of us still thinking about you. I had Supper with Dennis and Zoanne R. Two weeks and I mention your name and they were wondering how you were doing. We know what Tharold S. did to you wasn't nice, I had my own dealing with him myself so I understand your feelings I wrote before if I was the overseer I would pay most of your medical bills because for all of the yrs you spent in the work and for your dedication to God's people.
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Post by tuesday on Nov 20, 2018 23:21:37 GMT -5
I'm sorry to hear this & I can't imagine what it was/is like. I don't really know your story but I know that I've been very angry over things much smaller than what you have begun to describe here. Indeed I am very blessed to have such good memories & feelings about convention.
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Post by Dennis J on Nov 21, 2018 1:42:08 GMT -5
Thank you, you kind one. What I have experienced was totally unbelievable to me, for I, too, have many wonderful memories from decades of convention attendance.
When and after it happened, I considered total capitulation to overseer unrighteous demands. As with everything, I discussed it fully with my lovely late wife Ylva Kersti Olsson Jacobsen, who knew everything about me and that situation as well. She strongly asserted, “Oh Denny, you cannot confess to something untrue!”
That fit perfectly with what I believed after much prayer and meditation, so I did not. It has been equally unbelievable for me to have been told publically and privately in this forum that IS what I should have done. I still cannot believe it so, though it has cost an unbelieveable amount in many ways.
However, I offer thanks to my God Constantly also in many ways and for some people, first of all for Bob and Mary Jane without whom I would not be where I am today, but living alone and homeless.
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Post by Get off of TMB on Dec 1, 2018 14:15:54 GMT -5
I just couldn't imagine convention at the fairgrounds back in the day!
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Post by Get off of TMB on Jan 12, 2019 10:17:43 GMT -5
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Post by xna on Jan 12, 2019 19:21:18 GMT -5
The Wildlife Drive is much better if you are in town than going to any convention or meeting. Nature up close, & at its best.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 12, 2019 22:24:09 GMT -5
Just wondering...how each of you, loving conventions, giving of your best, would think and feel, if you were stopped at the driveway entrance of the grounds by a couple of cult followers, told you were unwelcome there and if you did not leave, or came back the police would keep you away? Why? All because of absolutely and totally false accusation by a wealthy sycophant and his wife who had a senile overseer in their wallet?
In the thirty years since, not one worker has shown either grace or grief to me nor mine. Not one! However my deception was so great that is what I needed to eventually learn what I have. Nonetheless, fool that I am, I still love them. Not one can say I did not give them and that system the very best of my health, strength, and youth and continue to this very day to pay a price in pain and immobility for the trust I put in them and it.
There simply is no end to the sorrow and grief I have paid over the decades for being so stupid as to believe the indoctrination forced upon me from my very conception! Yes, that was my fault, easy enough to see that now, not so then. Reading in this forum, I grieve even worse for many of you. As I proclaimed then, I will go to my grave proclaiming complete innocence in the matters of which I was accused, and that day draws very near.
How can they respect you or want having anything to do with you, when you call the 2x2 as CULT followers? and workers as sycophants? That is NOT a good way to build the bridge, you know.
Nathan!
Dennis is right!
The 2x2s have a hierarchy of power right from the top overseer down through all the other workers and no one, -NO ONE, -dares to question the one who is power above them!
You should know this! You were once in the work yourself!
There is absolutely NO recourse for anyone to be able to go to for justice when one has been wronged by someone in power over them! That hierarchy of power with absolutely NO recourse for anyone to be able to go to for justice is the worst wrong with the group.
No matter what else they believe or do is nothing comparable to that wrong!
Don't believe me? Wait 'til they come for YOU, Nathan!
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Post by nathan on Jan 12, 2019 22:50:37 GMT -5
How can they respect you or want having anything to do with you, when you call the 2x2 as CULT followers? and workers as sycophants? That is NOT a good way to build the bridge, you know.
Nathan!
Dennis is right!
The 2x2s have a hierarchy of power right from the top overseer down through all the other workers and no one, -NO ONE, -dares to question the one who is power above them!
You should know this! You were once in the work yourself!
There is absolutely NO recourse for anyone to be able to go to for justice when one has been wronged by someone in power over them! That hierarchy of power with absolutely NO recourse for anyone to be able to go to for justice is the worst wrong with the group.
No matter what else they believe or do is nothing comparable to that wrong!
Don't believe me? Wait 'til they come for YOU, Nathan!
I dealt with the overseers bullies myself, TWICE! and they almost RUINED my LIFE and health. Tharold S. gave me the green light to go in the work in 1984 and told me to go to Preps at Miltown. I quit my job, sold everything spoke in the last gospel meeting with the field workers. I went to preps and Tharold changed his mind and told the Senior worker at Preps my name is NOT on the Preps list.
I talked to Tharold S. to see what happened and he was sorry for the mixed up! He asked me to wait for another year. I went back to work at my old job with NOTHING! I waited 1 yrs and NO phone call from Tharold, and another 6 months no letter or phone call either.
These guys can be pains in the Butts and make your LIFE a living HELL and show no mercy about it, I put my trust in God and NOT in man/Tharold.
God had called and chosen me for the ministry so, He will open the door for me. I prayed to God what I should do and in my dream One night, the Voice of God said to me, "Go to, Oregon." I left Washington State and offered for the work in Oregon to Howard M. in 1986. I told Howard what happened in Washington State with Tharold and he told me, "My boy, there is a place for you in the work here in Oregon."
I moved to Portland, Oregon and I started in the work 6 months later in 1986-93.
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