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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2018 19:24:19 GMT -5
I think there's more to this dmmichgood ... A child has a sensitive conscience and a keen sense of shame. If a child tells a lie, for example, many times they'll come forward later, fess up, say their sorry and often shed tears. Ir's possible the harden your heart ... to the point a person can tell a straight-face lie and feel no remorse nor regret for it. I remember as a kid how sensitive I was and moved easily to tears of I lied or sinned. The military hammers all that sensitivity out of a person in basic training for one thing, but aside from that ... If a person has no sense of guilt for violating GOD'S commandments this,is a sign they have hardened their heart! GOD can't reach a person who has pride or a hardened heart, and this is where GOD then will leave a person with a reprobate mind unable to deal with that that person. In the other hand if a person maintains their sensitivity, righteous living etc ... they can still be reached by GOD. I remember reading in the Bible where when Lazarus died ... Jesus wept; therefore, clearly, Jesus had maintained sensitivity and a good operable conscience. Now, DMMICH, please don't feel offended, I'm not attackinh you in any way ... I'm just saying that perhaps you didn't think this through far enough. I wish you GOD'S speed. Of course I am not offended, jetmech! Why should I be?
All I wonder is where did you receive your degree in child psychology, jetmech?
yeah right, like your average parent has a degree....whats required is a little common sense not a degree....
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Post by sharingtheriches on Nov 4, 2018 20:13:11 GMT -5
Of course I am not offended, jetmech! Why should I be?
All I wonder is where did you receive your degree in child psychology, jetmech?
yeah right, like your average parent has a degree....whats required is a little common sense not a degree.... For me, all I have to do is remember all the little foibles of my own youth. We'd get mad at a friend, but then it would be no time we'd be as close buddies as we were before our little snits. I remember how much it hurt when I knew I'd done wrong and Gram would be very upset with me, how devastated I was for my behaviors that had given her grief. It doesn't take any degree to know how children are, we just need to look back in our own childhood. It doesn't hurt to add our children's growing up either. Or after witnessing neighborhood children. Though children of this era learn dirty tricks sooner then we did due to TV. I believe there still is an Innocence of their conscience.
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Post by jetmech on Nov 4, 2018 21:28:35 GMT -5
I think there's more to this dmmichgood ... A child has a sensitive conscience and a keen sense of shame. If a child tells a lie, for example, many times they'll come forward later, fess up, say their sorry and often shed tears. Ir's possible the harden your heart ... to the point a person can tell a straight-face lie and feel no remorse nor regret for it. I remember as a kid how sensitive I was and moved easily to tears of I lied or sinned. The military hammers all that sensitivity out of a person in basic training for one thing, but aside from that ... If a person has no sense of guilt for violating GOD'S commandments this,is a sign they have hardened their heart! GOD can't reach a person who has pride or a hardened heart, and this is where GOD then will leave a person with a reprobate mind unable to deal with that that person. In the other hand if a person maintains their sensitivity, righteous living etc ... they can still be reached by GOD. I remember reading in the Bible where when Lazarus died ... Jesus wept; therefore, clearly, Jesus had maintained sensitivity and a good operable conscience. Now, DMMICH, please don't feel offended, I'm not attackinh you in any way ... I'm just saying that perhaps you didn't think this through far enough. I wish you GOD'S speed. Of course I am not offended, jetmech! Why should I be?
All I wonder is where did you receive your degree in child psychology, jetmech?
I don't have a degree in child psychology; but, I started out majoring in child education in college and completed some courses in both child and adolescent psychology before I got interested in aviation and switched my major to AVIATION MAINTENANCE & TECHNOLOGY
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 5, 2018 5:55:51 GMT -5
Of course I am not offended, jetmech! Why should I be?
All I wonder is where did you receive your degree in child psychology, jetmech?
I don't have a degree in child psychology; but, I started out majoring in child education in college and completed some courses in both child and adolescent psychology before I got interested in aviation and switched my major to AVIATION MAINTENANCE & TECHNOLOGY Well good for you jetmech! That is great!
Why did you decide to go into aviation?
My daughter took her corn detasseling money and took flying lessons.
Did her solo flight.
She did just about anything that she set her mind to do.
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 5, 2018 6:07:18 GMT -5
yeah right, like your average parent has a degree....whats required is a little common sense not a degree.... More is required than your idea of a little common sense. (or remembering our own childhood, like STR posted)
No person automatically knows how to parent well.
I certainly didn't.
But I at least knew I was on the wrong track and I was NOT being the kind of parent that I wanted to be.
So I DID do something about it!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2018 6:14:03 GMT -5
More is required than your idea of a little common sense. (or remembering our own childhood, like STR posted)
No person automatically knows how to parent well.
I certainly didn't.
But I at least knew I was on the wrong track and I was NOT being the kind of parent that I wanted to be.
So I DID do something about it! you do realize that a degree in child psychology is a fairly new phenomenon and the world operated fine without it for approximately 6,000 years right?
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 5, 2018 16:29:32 GMT -5
you do realize that a degree in child psychology is a fairly new phenomenon and the world operated fine without it for approximately 6,000 years right? Except for the fact that your premise is wrong and the WORLD DID NOT operate fine without how understanding children's development
We treated children like little adults and expected them to act that way.
We didn't even have labor laws against putting children in terrible working conditions until a few decades ago.
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Post by rational on Jan 1, 2019 8:43:55 GMT -5
This wide gulch between the dissenter and the professing family members is something that ex2x2s who still believe in God are experiencing. I would think that atheism is a 2x2s worst nightmare. Though I've heard some 2x2s say they're more happy about their anti-believer's atheism because then they aren't in some false church. They seem to think there's a better chance of the atheist to come back to the 2x2 church, for at least they haven't been polluted by "false doctrine". My parents have definitely been coping by looking me as a prodigal son who just hasn't returned yet. I really wish it was easier to talk at length about religious issues with my family and friends. But there's so much emotion involved that nobody wants to bring it up unless they're unaware or unafraid of the consequences. Were you a prodigal?
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Post by colleenpercy on Jan 1, 2019 9:30:51 GMT -5
The situation you find yourself in is not uncommon. I had a friend who left the 2x2 system who felt that he couldn’t discuss the situation with his parents even 10 years after leaving. The only time that he attempted to talk about the situation, it swiftly became so emotionally charged that the subject was immediately dropped and never again spoken of. His parents continued to believe that he was a prodigal who would return and he would still receive invitations to missions popped through his letter box despite the fact he had long since ceased to believe in God. It used to irk me somewhat that he wouldn’t just tell them outright and bring the whole sorry charade to a close but he found it much too difficult and sought solace in the fact that allowing them to continue to believe he was a prodigal brought them some form of comfort. Everyone’s situation is different and different people respond differently. My own experience is that telling my parents up front led to a much more honest and open relationship and avoided a future awkwardly tiptoeing around the issue. However I think it’s safe to say that the 2x2s love a prodigal. A prodigal doesn’t threaten their belief system. A prodigal provides a project for the workers to work on. A prodigal provides hope for the future. A prodigal is always welcome at convention and can even be a focus of attention. A prodigal is merely classified as ‘unwilling’ which is seen as less shameful than the ‘bitter’ non believer. And of course a prodigal is always a good subject for a Sunday morning sermon as the parable is pretty straightforward. Matt10 My parents are definitely aware that I don't believe in god, and nobody's pushed me to go back. (Except for a gentle reminder every once in a long while, when it comes up in conversation -- planning visits and such.) Definitely agree with your last sentiments!
Want to really test your parents' 'tolerance' for their 'prodigal son'?? Want to find out what they really believe about you? Want to find out if they respect your beliefs or if they are just quietly biding their time? Become a devote Roman Catholic. There is nothing that these extreme Protestant sects/cults hate more than Roman Catholicism. If you declared yourself a Satanist, that would be less concerning for them. Your position as an atheist is in the 2x2's mind just a temporary position, due to your rebellious spirit and hard heart. Become a real Christian, and you will see sparks fly from your 2x2 parents and relatives.
And for the record, all the churches outside of catholic orthodoxy (Lutheran, Anglican, Roman) are field hospitals on the road to catholic orthodoxy.
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janj
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Post by janj on Jan 1, 2019 13:43:17 GMT -5
The believer is compelled to blame the skeptic for "failing to see the Emperor's Clothes." Once you see through the human-derived, group-think bolstered scheme, there is no going back. I would argue that skeptics see what is right in front of you that you cannot see. I would also argue that believers tend to be too emotionally invested in their beliefs to be willing/able to see what skeptics see. I think a good analogy for god believers is someone buying shares or investing in term deposits with a hope that sometime in the future there is a reward. Atheists have realized there is no reward and are not investing in the house of cards. But what if that investment pays amazing amounts of interest, and you feel like it's the best investment you ever made? Then someone comes along and tells you that you've got it wrong and that one day you'll be bright enough to see that the investments worthless.Hang on...you are already getting a great return - you have proved how good it is.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jan 1, 2019 13:51:17 GMT -5
I think a good analogy for god believers is someone buying shares or investing in term deposits with a hope that sometime in the future there is a reward. Atheists have realized there is no reward and are not investing in the house of cards. But what if that investment pays amazing amounts of interest, and you feel like it's the best investment you ever made? Then someone comes along and tells you that you've got it wrong and that one day you'll be bright enough to see that the investments worthless.Hang on...you are already getting a great return - you have proved how good it is. How tangible is this interest you talk about?
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Post by jetmech on Jan 1, 2019 14:43:46 GMT -5
But what if that investment pays amazing amounts of interest, and you feel like it's the best investment you ever made? Then someone comes along and tells you that you've got it wrong and that one day you'll be bright enough to see that the investments worthless.Hang on...you are already getting a great return - you have proved how good it is. How tangible is this interest you talk about? Surely the creation of the universe, creation of animals and plant life, cells, anatomy, etc., is much more complex than just the toss of the dice, or playing cards.
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Post by jetmech on Jan 1, 2019 14:54:42 GMT -5
you do realize that a degree in child psychology is a fairly new phenomenon and the world operated fine without it for approximately 6,000 years right? In comparison, as recent as the year 1975, the FAA did not have an AVIATION MAINTENANCE INSPECTOR branch. The FAA did not investigate airline nor general aviation maintenance, did not have any scheduled maintenance requirements for airlines, and heavy transport category aircraft were not required to keep an AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE LOGBOOK in the cockpit before each daily flight. Nowadays, heavy jet aircraft, require an AIR WORTHINESS RELEASE be signed both by a maintenance supervisor and an inspector before the aircraft can fly daily. Mechanics also are required to sign off blocks in the log book after each maintenance item is completed daily, and before the AIR WORTHINESS RELEASE can be signed.
Things improve with time.
I remember in 1962, when my older brother was in the army, I was in the second grade of elementary school, he used to fly home on leave and when we took him to WEIR COOK AIRPORT in Indianapolis, Indiana he flew on TWA on the old CONSTALLATION aircraft with radial engines. After those aircraft sat for awhile oil would drain down into the bottom cylinders, of course I didn't know that as a kid; but, when they started the engines they'd send out CLOUDS of smoke until they got warmed up and burned off all that residual oil. It's hard to say what 'junk' my brother actually flew on with the lack of maintenance requirements back then.
This lack of any degree in child psychology for many years reminds me too that there were no driver's licenses for a good while either, no CDL (commercial driver's licenses) for truck drivers. No log book requirements for truck drivers. For a good many years.
Things change with development and advancement, and child psychology is very interesting. I believe, from experience as a foster-child, that all potential foster parents and foster-siblings should be required, by law, to take some classes in child psychology and/or how to treat foster-children, before they are allowed to take in foster children.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2019 15:42:21 GMT -5
My parents are definitely aware that I don't believe in god, and nobody's pushed me to go back. (Except for a gentle reminder every once in a long while, when it comes up in conversation -- planning visits and such.) Definitely agree with your last sentiments!
and for the record, all the churches outside of catholic orthodoxy (Lutheran, Anglican, Roman) are field hospitals on the road to catholic orthodoxy.
yeah right you guys molested children just like everyone else has....
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Post by colleenpercy on Jan 1, 2019 15:48:35 GMT -5
and for the record, all the churches outside of catholic orthodoxy (Lutheran, Anglican, Roman) are field hospitals on the road to catholic orthodoxy.
yeah right you guys molested children just like everyone else has....
I'm quite pleased that you wrote what you did. It shows exactly what is wrong with 2x2 thinking - that you have NO IDEA what the message of the Gospels are. Doctrine is not judged on the actions of some members of the group, doctrine is judged on whether it fits with the Scriptures. But you have confused this because you have NO IDEA what the message of the Gospels is, and so you attempt to judge churches on whether or not they have any members who commit crimes or sin.
Why don't you try to learn about Christianity just a bit before you die.....it's so sad to watch you.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2019 15:53:32 GMT -5
yeah right you guys molested children just like everyone else has....
I'm quite pleased that you wrote what you did. It shows exactly what is wrong with 2x2 thinking - that you have NO IDEA what the message of the Gospels are. Doctrine is not judged on the actions of some members of the group, doctrine is judged on whether it fits with the Scriptures. But you have confused this because you have NO IDEA what the message of the Gospels is, and so you attempt to judge churches on whether or not they have any members who commit crimes or sin.
Why don't you try to learn about Christianity just a bit before you die.....it's so sad to watch you.
thats exactly what you do simpleton, you layout all the sins of the 2x2's and others as compared to the RCC...hypocrite
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janj
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Post by janj on Jan 1, 2019 17:58:06 GMT -5
But what if that investment pays amazing amounts of interest, and you feel like it's the best investment you ever made? Then someone comes along and tells you that you've got it wrong and that one day you'll be bright enough to see that the investments worthless.Hang on...you are already getting a great return - you have proved how good it is. How tangible is this interest you talk about? Not really sure how to answer this other than to say that God is such a huge part of my life I couldn't imagine life without. Not really because I fear not to have but because I love to have.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jan 1, 2019 18:01:41 GMT -5
How tangible is this interest you talk about? Not really sure how to answer this other than to say that God is such a huge part of my life I couldn't imagine life without. Not really because I fear not to have but because I love to have. I am not really sure what to say either about your belief. Perhaps I could respectfully direct you to read some good science and then in a year or so get back to me and tell me whether you still believe in your god.
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janj
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Post by janj on Jan 1, 2019 18:13:05 GMT -5
Not really sure how to answer this other than to say that God is such a huge part of my life I couldn't imagine life without. Not really because I fear not to have but because I love to have. I am not really sure what to say either about your belief. Perhaps I could respectfully direct you to read some good science and then in a year or so get back to me and tell me whether you still believe in your god. If Science can bring me love,peace,joy contentment and hope...then by all means direct me. But you haven't given me a reason why I would want to give up something so meaningful and dear to me, for a scientific theory. I have been through tests way more searching than science and it has made me value more what I have.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Jan 1, 2019 18:24:52 GMT -5
you do realize that a degree in child psychology is a fairly new phenomenon and the world operated fine without it for approximately 6,000 years right? In comparison, as recent as the year 1975, the FAA did not have an AVIATION MAINTENANCE INSPECTOR branch. The FAA did not investigate airline nor general aviation maintenance, did not have any scheduled maintenance requirements for airlines, and heavy transport category aircraft were not required to keep an AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE LOGBOOK in the cockpit before each daily flight. Nowadays, heavy jet aircraft, require an AIR WORTHINESS RELEASE be signed both by a maintenance supervisor and an inspector before the aircraft can fly each daily. Mechanics also are required to sign off blocks in the log book after each maintenance item is completed daily, and before the AIR WORTHINESS RELEASE can be signed.
Things improve with time.
I remember in 1962, when my older brother was in the army, I was in the second grade of elementary school, he used to fly home on leave and when we took him to WEIR COOK AIRPORT in Indianapolis, Indiana he flew on TWA on the old CONSTALLATION aircraft with radial engines. After those aircraft sat for awhile oil would drain down into the bottom cylinders, of course I didn't know that as a kid; but, when they started the engines they'd send out CLOUDS of smoke until they got warmed up and burned off all that residual oil. It's hard to say what 'junk' my brother actually flew on with the lack of maintenance requirements back then.
This lack of any degree in child psychology for many years reminds me too that there were no driver's licenses for a good while either, no CDL (commercial driver's licenses) for truck drivers. No log book requirements for truck drivers. For a good many years.
Things change with development and advancement, ad child psychology is very interesting. I believe, from experience as a foster-child, that all potential foster parents and foster-siblings should be required, by law, to take some classes in child psychology and/or how to treat foster-children, before they are allowed to take in foster children.
Perhaps serving an internship in actual practice of dealing with childreb, with supervised practorums. The royal and elite people in England have school trained nannies. They do take collegiate courses in human development and child psychology plus languages.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jan 1, 2019 18:25:19 GMT -5
I am not really sure what to say either about your belief. Perhaps I could respectfully direct you to read some good science and then in a year or so get back to me and tell me whether you still believe in your god. If Science can bring me love,peace,joy contentment and hope...then by all means direct me. But you haven't given me a reason why I would want to give up something so meaningful and dear to me, for a scientific theory. I have been through tests way more searching than science and it has made me value more what I have. Perhaps you could see a trick cyclist then and ask for help with your delusions.
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janj
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Post by janj on Jan 1, 2019 18:44:18 GMT -5
If Science can bring me love,peace,joy contentment and hope...then by all means direct me. But you haven't given me a reason why I would want to give up something so meaningful and dear to me, for a scientific theory. I have been through tests way more searching than science and it has made me value more what I have. Perhaps you could see a trick cyclist then and ask for help with your delusions. I find it interesting that you appear to almost resent the fact that people can have a faith and are 100% happy with what it brings into their lives. If people are content, why would you want to change things for them? Surely if you believe life finishes when you die, then all you would want for people is for them to live happy lives and contribute positively to society? Maybe you dont want people to have what you haven't go? Just curious.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 1, 2019 20:06:49 GMT -5
How tangible is this interest you talk about? Surely the creation of the universe, creation of animals and plant life, cells, anatomy, etc., is much more complex than just the toss of the dice, or playing cards. Do you think that only you and other believers have that kind of "interest?"
We have the benefit of those things as well as yourself.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jan 1, 2019 20:19:09 GMT -5
Perhaps you could see a trick cyclist then and ask for help with your delusions. I find it interesting that you appear to almost resent the fact that people can have a faith and are 100% happy with what it brings into their lives. If people are content, why would you want to change things for them? Surely if you believe life finishes when you die, then all you would want for people is for them to live happy lives and contribute positively to society? Maybe you dont want people to have what you haven't go? Just curious. Firstly I have no resentment but I do feel sad that your life is faith based rather than reality based. How can you contribute positively to society by believing myths?
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 1, 2019 20:22:14 GMT -5
How tangible is this interest you talk about? Not really sure how to answer this other than to say that God is such a huge part of my life I couldn't imagine life without. Not really because I fear not to have but because I love to have. Part of being in the 2x2's consists of having to have "god as such such a big part of one's life," that there is no room nor time to find anything about anything else in life!
Meetings at least twice a week, and in one place I lived THREE times a week! (and that was just fellowship meetings, -gospel meeting were extra.) And you had better be in those meetings or you would have to explain why not!
Your whole life is so bounded by rules there isn't any room to see beyond them to anything else.
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Post by speak on Jan 1, 2019 20:25:51 GMT -5
My parents are definitely aware that I don't believe in god, and nobody's pushed me to go back. (Except for a gentle reminder every once in a long while, when it comes up in conversation -- planning visits and such.) Definitely agree with your last sentiments!
Want to really test your parents' 'tolerance' for their 'prodigal son'?? Want to find out what they really believe about you? Want to find out if they respect your beliefs or if they are just quietly biding their time? Become a devote Roman Catholic. There is nothing that these extreme Protestant sects/cults hate more than Roman Catholicism. If you declared yourself a Satanist, that would be less concerning for them. Your position as an atheist is in the 2x2's mind just a temporary position, due to your rebellious spirit and hard heart. Become a real Christian, and you will see sparks fly from your 2x2 parents and relatives.
And for the record, all the churches outside of catholic orthodoxy (Lutheran, Anglican, Roman) are field hospitals on the road to catholic orthodoxy.
Are you one of those christians who like to see division rather than unity? Christ loves unity.
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Post by speak on Jan 1, 2019 20:29:14 GMT -5
Perhaps you could see a trick cyclist then and ask for help with your delusions. I find it interesting that you appear to almost resent the fact that people can have a faith and are 100% happy with what it brings into their lives. If people are content, why would you want to change things for them? Surely if you believe life finishes when you die, then all you would want for people is for them to live happy lives and contribute positively to society? Maybe you dont want people to have what you haven't go? Just curious. He's just a grumpy old man who appears to be a lonely one.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 1, 2019 20:59:45 GMT -5
I am not really sure what to say either about your belief. Perhaps I could respectfully direct you to read some good science and then in a year or so get back to me and tell me whether you still believe in your god. If Science can bring me love,peace,joy contentment and hope...then by all means direct me. But you haven't given me a reason why I would want to give up something so meaningful and dear to me, for a scientific theory. I have been through tests way more searching than science and it has made me value more what I have. In essence, jani, -you have just given the reason why so people would rather deny reality and keep on believing something. It is because their beliefs are based on how good it makes them feel, -"love, peace, joy, contentment and hope."
Understandable, -but as a non-believer, - I came to the place where I realized that it was just an emotional reason that I was believing something that was really UNBELIEVABLE!
I had to face the fact it was just a facade. Sure it hurt for awhile to get rid of it.
Just like having surgery to get rid of my "appendix" -a left over appendage from humankind's earlier ages but was of no use what-so-ever today.
In fact that appendix which has no use for us today can actually kill us!
The journey out can be painful, -like a lot of journeys, -but well worth the effort.
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