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Post by jetmech on Oct 31, 2018 17:26:24 GMT -5
I was reading a piece in a magazine about athiests. It's unbelieveable to me how someone can even be brave enough to denounce GOD publicly or in any other way as well.
There surely must have been people in Biblical times who claimed to be athiests just like there are today.
PSALM 14 verse 1 says " ... The FOOL hath said in his heart, there is no GOD ..."
I wonder then too how many woman made statements like that in Biblical times ... I know Job's wife did. Psalm 53:1 says "... The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God ..." and more was said about it down to verse 4.
I fear GOD really I do. I know GOD is an AWESOME God, and I would never want him mad at me, so I'm going to take my chances.
Someone famous once said " ... if my beliefs about GOD and heaven and all that is involved is just a dream ... it's a beautiful dream, leave me alone let me dream...
Proverbs 1:7 Says " ... The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; but FOOLS despise wisdom and instruction. Proverbs 28:26 " ... He that trusteth in his own heart ... is a FOOL; but, whoso walketh he shall be delivered.
I wonder if there has been even one person who commited his life to Jesus ...out of the millions if not billions ... has there been even one person male or female, young or old, who regretted it? I've never heard of it.
Like I say I'm going to take my chances and try to make it to salvation, let Jesus into my heart and soul, and live a good Christian life. I wonder if anyone else agrees/disagrees with me?
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Post by jetmech on Oct 31, 2018 17:36:12 GMT -5
Matthew 10: 33-35 "if you deny me before men I'll deny you before my father in heaven..."
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Post by snow on Oct 31, 2018 18:09:10 GMT -5
Yes unfortunately those verses have scared a lot of people over the centuries and made them to afraid to question. But personally, I had to question. I guess sometimes you just have to be prepared for hard answers when you question and be prepared to accept them. For me, the Christian God makes no sense at all. The stories in the bible make no sense at all. I am a creature of logic and facts. They are important to me even if I sometimes fail to be logical I do need things to be factual.
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Post by matisse on Oct 31, 2018 18:25:33 GMT -5
When I was a devoted Christian believer, I prayed that I would be willing for whatever God had planned for me, even if it was something I might never imagine or wish for myself. I think, as Snow said, that I was open to the possibility of a "hard answer". In an odd way, the "answer to that prayer" was that my eyes opened, and I lost my faith. I have no regrets about it.
IMO, the verses you quote are part of the psychological protection of the believer. No matter how compelling the stories you hear from people who believe differently from you, you don't have to think, just hurl quotes. You seem to have been well-indoctrinated to not question the Bible.
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Post by nathan on Oct 31, 2018 18:35:42 GMT -5
I was reading a piece in a magazine about athiests. It's unbelieveable to me how someone can even be brave enough to denounce GOD publicly or in any other way as well.There surely must have been people in Biblical times who claimed to be athiests just like there are today. PSALM 14 verse 1 says " ... The FOOL hath said in his heart, there is no GOD ..." I wonder then too how many woman made statements like that in Biblical times ... I know Job's wife did. Psalm 53:1 says "... The fool hath said in his heart, there is no God ..." and more was said about it down to verse 4. I fear GOD really I do. I know GOD is an AWESOME God, and I would never want him mad at me, so I'm going to take my chances. Someone famous once said " ... if my beliefs about GOD and heaven and all that is involved is just a dream ... it's a beautiful dream, leave me alone let me dream... Proverbs 1:7 Says " ... The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge; but FOOLS despise wisdom and instruction. Proverbs 28:26 " ... He that trusteth in his own heart ... is a FOOL; but, whoso walketh he shall be delivered ..." I wonder if there has been even one person who committed his life to Jesus ...out of the millions if not billions ... has there been even one person male or female, young or old, who gretted it? I've never heard of it. Like I say I'm going to take my chances and try to make it to salvation, let Jesus into my heart and soul, and live a good Christian life. I wonder if anyone else agrees/disagrees with me? I agree with you, my friend... God wants us to HAVE the best in the Universe! That was the main reason God created Adam and Eve in their image and Likeness to be children of the KING in the Universe! ALL created beings in the Universe, and ALL of the angels to show us respect because we were Prince and Princess of the KING of kings.
We were created NOT to be SLAVES to Satan, but to be RULERS with Christ and God the Father. However, Christ came down from heaven and He has RESTORE our rightful place to RULE with Him. God has prepared GREAT things for us to enjoy things on earth here and now, much more to come during the 1000 yrs reign on earth and Zillion Galaxies in the Universe and GREATER things to enjoy in the New earth and heaven.
Jesus said in John 10 I have come that you might have LIFE and have it MORE ABUNDANTLY and he is TELLING us the truth. He also said "In my Father's house there are MANY mansions/planets, I go to prepare a place for you, where I am there you will be also."
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Post by jetmech on Oct 31, 2018 18:43:05 GMT -5
When I was a devoted Christian believer, I prayed that I would be willing for whatever God had planned for me, even if it was something I might never imagine or wish for myself. I think, as Snow said, that I was open to the possibility of a "hard answer". In an odd way, the "answer to that prayer" was that my eyes opened, and I lost my faith. I have no regrets about it. IMO, the verses you quote are part of the psychological protection of the believer. No matter how compelling the stories you hear from people who believe differently from you, you don't have to think, just hurl quotes. You seem to have been well-indoctrinated to not question the Bible. Matisse I appreciate your interesting post, and that's why I gave you a "like." If you think I haven't questioned the Bible you haven't seen all the posts where I was having trouble believing in the trinity, discussing many contradictions, etc and I wouldn't blame Nate, and others, one bit if they lost their patience with me a few times. But, I always try to back up my posts with quotes and/or references so it's obvious I'm not pulling these things out of thin air.
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Post by nathan on Oct 31, 2018 18:48:06 GMT -5
When I was a devoted Christian believer, I prayed that I would be willing for whatever God had planned for me, even if it was something I might never imagine or wish for myself. I think, as Snow said, that I was open to the possibility of a "hard answer". In an odd way, the "answer to that prayer" was that my eyes opened, and I lost my faith. I have no regrets about it. IMO, the verses you quote are part of the psychological protection of the believer. No matter how compelling the stories you hear from people who believe differently from you, you don't have to think, just hurl quotes. You seem to have been well-indoctrinated to not question the Bible. Matisse I appreciate your interesting post, and that's why I gave you a "like." If you think I haven't questioned the Bible you haven't seen all the posts where I was having trouble believing in the trinity, discussing many contradictions, etc and I wouldn't blame Nate, and others, one bit if they lost their patience with me a few times. But, I always try to back up my posts with quotes and/or references so it's obvious I'm not pulling these thing out of thin air. I don't mind about sharing my belief on the Trinity- Father, Christ and Son... They are separate beings but ONE in ONENESS of Unity and harmony. Keep on asking good questions, we don't mind... Good to have pros and cons. We can't learn anything new if we don't ask questions.
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Post by jetmech on Oct 31, 2018 18:49:50 GMT -5
Matisse I appreciate your interesting post, and that's why I gave you a "like." If you think I haven't questioned the Bible you haven't seen all the posts where I was having trouble believing in the trinity, discussing many contradictions, etc and I wouldn't blame Nate, and others, one bit if they lost their patience with me a few times. But, I always try to back up my posts with quotes and/or references so it's obvious I'm not pulling these thing out of thin air. I don't mind about sharing my belief on the Trinity- Father, Christ and Son... They are separate beings but ONE in ONENESS of Unity and harmony. Keep on asking good questions, we don't mind... Good to have pros and cons. We can't learn new things if we don't ask questions.
Sounds good Nathan and I appreciate your patience with a morsel like me. Thanks brother.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 18:51:06 GMT -5
When I was a devoted Christian believer, I prayed that I would be willing for whatever God had planned for me, even if it was something I might never imagine or wish for myself. I think, as Snow said, that I was open to the possibility of a "hard answer". In an odd way, the "answer to that prayer" was that my eyes opened, and I lost my faith. I have no regrets about it. IMO, the verses you quote are part of the psychological protection of the believer. No matter how compelling the stories you hear from people who believe differently from you, you don't have to think, just hurl quotes. You seem to have been well-indoctrinated to not question the Bible. Matisse I appreciate your interesting post, and that's why I gave you a "like." If you think I haven't questioned the Bible you haven't seen all the posts where I was having trouble believing in the trinity, discussing many contradictions, etc and I wouldn't blame Nate, and others, one bit if they lost their patience with me a few times. But, I always try to back up my posts with quotes and/or references so it's obvious I'm not pulling these things out of thin air. questions are good and you ask some good ones...makes one study the scripture more which is a good thing....
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Post by xna on Oct 31, 2018 19:32:13 GMT -5
For just one example; consider the bible story of Thomas - one of the twelve disciples ...... John 20:25 "The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe."Here Thomas did not believe until AFTER he had evidence. That's what most atheist say, give me some evidence and then I may believe. Most atheist don't say I'm certain there are no gods. For myself I would say I disbelieve in the god of the bible as much as I disbelieve in Leprechauns. Leprechauns may exist but until there is some evidence all we have is Leprechaun stories. What's really strange about the Thomas story is, according to the bible he already had 1st person evidence of the prior 37 miracles of Jesus! Doesn't that make this disbelief story seem a little strange? BTW he had already seen Jesus raise someone from the dead, so coming back from the dead shouldn't have been surprising to Thomas either. Don't you think most atheists if they too had seen these 37 miracles they would become believers long before seeing number 37? Think about it, the Thomas story would make more sense if the 37 Jesus miracles never happened and Thomas never saw them, or if John 20:25 was just made up, or if both were just made up. We will never know because, there is no record of any 1st hand witnesses who saw Jesus. There is no original bible, just lots of revisions, additions and deletions. We are left with many bible contradictions (see video), and no one has ever demonstrated anything supernatural, that's why atheist's say; the time to believe is after you have good evidence, not before. Childhood religious indoctrination instills deep seated fears. Most never escape these fears, and few question their church group beliefs. Christians can see this in other religions but childhood indoctrination blinds them from their own group. Few are committed to knowing what is true about what they were taught as a child. I recommend this book to better understand the psychology of belief "T he God Virus: How Religion Infects Our Lives and Culture"
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 20:13:05 GMT -5
For just one example; consider the bible story of Thomas - one of the twelve disciples ...... John 20:25 "The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe."Here Thomas did not believe until AFTER he had evidence. That's what most atheist say, give me some evidence and then I may believe. Most atheist don't say I'm certain there are no gods. For myself I would say I disbelieve in the god of the bible as much as I disbelieve in Leprechauns. Leprechauns may exist but until there is some evidence all we have is Leprechaun stories. What's really strange about the Thomas story is, according to the bible he already had 1st person evidence of the prior 37 miracles of Jesus! Doesn't that make this disbelief story seem a little strange? BTW he had already seen Jesus raise someone from the dead, so coming back from the dead shouldn't have been surprising to Thomas either. Don't you think most atheists if they too had seen these 37 miracles they would become believers long before seeing number 37? Think about it, the Thomas story would make more sense if the 37 Jesus miracles never happened and Thomas never saw them, or if John 20:25 was just made up, or if both were just made up. We will never know because, there is no record of any 1st hand witnesses who saw Jesus. There is no original bible, just lots of revisions, additions and deletions. We are left with many bible contradictions (see video), and no one has ever demonstrated anything supernatural, that's why atheist's say; the time to believe is after you have good evidence, not before. Childhood religious indoctrination instills deep seated fears. Most never escape these fears, and few question their church group beliefs. Christians can see this in other religions but childhood indoctrination blinds them from their own group. Few are committed to knowing what is true about what they were taught as a child. I recommend this book to better understand the psychology of belief "T he God Virus: How Religion Infects Our Lives and Culture" thats not gonna help you on judgement day.....just sayin' there is little difference in "i see no evidence for god(s)" and "i don't believe in god(s)"...
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Post by nathan on Oct 31, 2018 20:16:12 GMT -5
Oct 31, 2018 17:32:13 GMT -7 xna said:
For just one example; consider the bible story of Thomas - one of the twelve disciples ......
John 20:25 "The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe."
Here Thomas did not believe until AFTER he had evidence. That's what most atheist say, give me some evidence and then I may believe. Most atheist don't say I'm certain there are no gods. For myself I would say I disbelieve in the god of the bible as much as I disbelieve in Leprechauns. Leprechauns may exist but until there is some evidence all we have is Leprechaun stories.
What's really strange about the Thomas story is, according to the bible he already had 1st person evidence of the prior 37 miracles of Jesus! Doesn't that make this disbelief story seem a little strange?
BTW he had already seen Jesus raise someone from the dead, so coming back from the dead shouldn't have been surprising to Thomas either. Don't you think most atheists if they too had seen these 37 miracles they would become believers long before seeing number 37?
Think about it, the Thomas story would make more sense if the 37 Jesus miracles never happened and Thomas never saw them, or if John 20:25 was just made up, or if both were just made up. We will never know because, there is no record of any 1st hand witnesses who saw Jesus. There is no original bible, just lots of revisions, additions and deletions.
~~ NathanB: The 10 apostles and other followers of Jesus had seen the Resurrected Jesus, but Thomas had NOT seen him came back the dead.... So, he said to the apostles that he would believe the RESURRECTED Jesus when he could see Him and touch Jesus flesh for himself. Jesus appeared and told Thomas to come and touch his nail prints on his hands/wrists and the spear wound on His side....
I appreciate what Jesus said to Thomas in John 20:26-29 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, " Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."
We KNOW Matthew, John, Peter the apostles were 1st hand witnesses who saw Jesus and Paul saw the resurrected Jesus. Jesus said we are BLESSED, that we have NOT seen Him, and YET have believed He is the Christ/Savior.... It's increase our FAITH, in seeing and believing in the impossibility.
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Post by xna on Oct 31, 2018 20:21:39 GMT -5
thats not gonna help you on judgement day.....just sayin' But...... 1.5 billion Muslim's read.... Jews and Christians who reject Muhammad as being unbelievers. Allah says: " Whoever ascribes partners unto Allah, for him Allah has forbidden Paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers.' " [Sûrah al-Mâ'idah: 72]
Different cultural myths.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 20:24:05 GMT -5
thats not gonna help you on judgement day.....just sayin' But...... 1.5 billion Muslim's read.... Jews and Christians who reject Muhammad as being unbelievers. Allah says: " Whoever ascribes partners unto Allah, for him Allah has forbidden Paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers.' " [Sûrah al-Mâ'idah: 72]
Different cultural myths. looks like your doomed no matter what religion it is....
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Post by xna on Oct 31, 2018 20:27:44 GMT -5
We KNOW Matthew, John, Peter the apostles were 1st hand witnesses who saw Jesus and Paul saw the resurrected Jesus.
What you have is stories (gospels) which were written by unknown authors, about these 1st hand witnesses who were themselves long dead as of the writings.
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Post by xna on Oct 31, 2018 20:28:34 GMT -5
But...... 1.5 billion Muslim's read.... Jews and Christians who reject Muhammad as being unbelievers. Allah says: " Whoever ascribes partners unto Allah, for him Allah has forbidden Paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers.' " [Sûrah al-Mâ'idah: 72]
Different cultural myths. looks like your doomed no matter what religion it is.... or they could all be wrong. :-)
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Post by nathan on Oct 31, 2018 20:30:23 GMT -5
We KNOW Matthew, John, Peter the apostles were 1st hand witnesses who saw Jesus and Paul saw the resurrected Jesus.
What you have is stories (gospels) which were written by unknown authors, about these 1st hand witnesses who were themselves long dead as of the writings. Have you read who wrote the Gospel of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John that I posted? writing from the early church fathers, who were disciples of the apostles.
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Post by xna on Oct 31, 2018 20:39:55 GMT -5
What you have is stories (gospels) which were written by unknown authors, about these 1st hand witnesses who were themselves long dead as of the writings. Have you read who wrote the Gospel of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John that I posted? writing from the early church fathers, who were disciples of the apostles.Yes I have read who is thought to be the authors of the gospels and when they were believed to be written. That’s why I say no writer of the gospels had first hand knowledge of Jesus.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 20:41:30 GMT -5
Have you read who wrote the Gospel of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John that I posted? writing from the early church fathers, who were disciples of the apostles. Yes I have read who is thought to be the authors of the gospels and when they were believed to be written. That’s why I say no writer of the gospels had first hand knowledge of Jesus. talk about myth...
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Post by xna on Oct 31, 2018 21:05:23 GMT -5
Yes I have read who is thought to be the authors of the gospels and when they were believed to be written. That’s why I say no writer of the gospels had first hand knowledge of Jesus. talk about myth... youtu.be/rhM5lbVBgkk
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Post by nathan on Oct 31, 2018 21:34:59 GMT -5
Have you read who wrote the Gospel of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John that I posted? writing from the early church fathers, who were disciples of the apostles. Yes I have read who is thought to be the authors of the gospels and when they were believed to be written. That’s why I say no writer of the gospels had first hand knowledge of Jesus. What do you mean no writer of the Gospel had seen Jesus? Matthew and John were apostles of Jesus. John, James were 1st cousin to Jesus, their mothers were sisters. John, James his brother had known each others since childhood. That was why John felt VERY close to Jesus, and it was he who leaned on Jesus chests.
That was one of the reasons the Gospel of John, where he had a clearer picture of Jesus the Christ, the Word God/Logos than the three other Gospels. Matthew knew him only the few years with Jesus as his apostle during his earthly ministry. Mark and Luke had NOT met Jesus in person.
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Post by nathan on Oct 31, 2018 21:41:00 GMT -5
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Post by Roselyn T on Oct 31, 2018 22:07:46 GMT -5
What like Stranges you mean nathan ! But of course you support Strange Stranges because he backs up your belief !
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Post by intelchips on Oct 31, 2018 22:42:22 GMT -5
What you have is stories (gospels) which were written by unknown authors, about these 1st hand witnesses who were themselves long dead as of the writings. Have you read who wrote the Gospel of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John that I posted? writing from the early church fathers, who were disciples of the apostles.I have read it and again you are just absolutely wrong and you also offer no proof for your position except to keep regurgitating scripture from fictional old writings. And if it made you happy I would leave you alone but you won't be happy until everyone accepts your non-factual belief system. Cheers
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2018 23:38:05 GMT -5
yeah right like i'm gonna believe someone born in the last century knows anything about who wrote the various books of the bible?
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 1, 2018 0:20:28 GMT -5
yeah right like i'm gonna believe someone born in the last century knows anything about who wrote the various books of the bible? I wish there was an icon of some sort for shaking one's head at the idiocy of some remarks.
So some people will believe the books of the bible that are thousands of years old but won't believe someone in present day history who has spent his life in studying them.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2018 0:25:12 GMT -5
yeah right like i'm gonna believe someone born in the last century knows anything about who wrote the various books of the bible? I wish there was an icon of some sort for shaking one's head at the idiocy of some remarks.
So some people will believe the books of the bible that are thousands of years old but won't believe someone in present day history who has spent his life in studying them.i've spent the better part of 39 year studying the bible without coming to any asinine conclusions about the authorship of the gospels or any other book of the bible...
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 1, 2018 0:32:31 GMT -5
I wish there was an icon of some sort for shaking one's head at the idiocy of some remarks.
So some people will believe the books of the bible that are thousands of years old but won't believe someone in present day history who has spent his life in studying them. i've spent the better part of 39 year studying the bible without coming to any asinine conclusions about the authorship of the gospels or any other book of the bible... Well, -maybe that just says more about YOU than it does about Bart Ehrman!
Do you think maybe?
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