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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Nov 3, 2018 22:04:34 GMT -5
You lost me when you said that praying(talking to non existant supernaturals) and bible reading are productive. Other than that, anything we do that is non productive instead of spending time on productive is lost time. I think it's a long bow you are drawing tho when you call it idolatry. I could same some crude thing like tell GOD that on your death bed ... IF you get the chance, but I won't ... instead, I'd like to say you have every right to believe as you wish; but, the workers have just as much of a right to believe and live as they choose. You make fun of that photo of the Kansas convention and follow it by negative comments regarding GOD, so evidentally you see some type of relationship between those workers and GOD. Think about it ... you have every right to believe and live as YOU choose. GOD created you that way and gave you the freedom to choose your destiny ... now, with that said, have any of those workers made fun of you or have they made fun of photos of you? They NEVER will. Ever ...I'm saying people should respect their rights as much as they respect theirs. I don't feel comfortable myself making fun of GOD or the existence of GOD and I would never do it ... even if it meant death for me. Jetmech, I have not made any comment poking fun at what the workers were in that photo. As for god. You know what I believe, anyone taking seriously a make believe figure leaves themselves open for a bit of fun. As for workers making fun of me. Yes that has happened in the past from one or two arrogant workers.
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Post by xna on Nov 3, 2018 22:12:03 GMT -5
The exes like to find faults with the friends and the workers in almost everything they do... Most people in USA have I-phones, Internet, computers these days. Do you want them to live like the Amish in the 21st century? We read Paul and his co-workers travel to many countries travel by ships in their 3 missions were they worldly? I think you are looking at the wrong end of the stick... If the 2x2 didn't claim that only they know the Truth, and everybody else has got it wrong, then expect some push back. Just saying.... :-)
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Post by nathan on Nov 3, 2018 22:22:45 GMT -5
I think you are looking at the wrong end of the stick... If the 2x2 didn't claim that only they know the Truth, and everybody else has got it wrong, then expect some push back. Just saying.... :-) If you want to push back, make sure you got it right! Make sure you are NOT holding the wrong end of the stick yourself or you will get hurt at the end, and look ridiculous bleeding all over the places.
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 3, 2018 22:26:38 GMT -5
I think you are looking at the wrong end of the stick... If the 2x2 didn't claim that only they know the Truth, and everybody else has got it wrong, then expect some push back. Just saying.... :-) Exactly xna ! They are quick to criticize "worldly churches" as only wanting money, but they don't look in their own backyards ! All the latest gadgets, flights all over the world to go to conventions ..... the list goes on !
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 3, 2018 22:29:13 GMT -5
I could same some crude thing like tell GOD that on your death bed ... IF you get the chance, but I won't ... instead, I'd like to say you have every right to believe as you wish; but, the workers have just as much of a right to believe and live as they choose. You make fun of that photo of the Kansas convention and follow it by negative comments regarding GOD, so evidentally you see some type of relationship between those workers and GOD. Think about it ... you have every right to believe and live as YOU choose. GOD created you that way and gave you the freedom to choose your destiny ... now, with that said, have any of those workers made fun of you or have they made fun of photos of you? They NEVER will. Ever ...I'm saying people should respect their rights as much as they respect theirs. I don't feel comfortable myself making fun of GOD or the existence of GOD and I would never do it ... even if it meant death for me. Jetmech, I have not made any comment poking fun at what the workers were in that photo. As for god. You know what I believe, anyone taking seriously a make believe figure leaves themselves open for a bit of fun. As for workers making fun of me. Yes that has happened in the past from one or two arrogant workers. jetmech seems to have forgotten how he "poked fun" at a certain female minister recently curlywurlysammagee ! But of course he justified it by saying she was a "worldly preacher"
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Post by xna on Nov 3, 2018 22:31:49 GMT -5
I think you are looking at the wrong end of the stick... If the 2x2 didn't claim that only they know the Truth, and everybody else has got it wrong, then expect some push back. Just saying.... :-) If you want to push back, make sure you got it right! Make sure you are NOT holding the wrong end of the stick yourself or you will get hurt at the end, and look ridiculous.Well at least you are consistent in thinking there is only one right way, and you found it. If we were talking about any other subject and one group claimed they are the only ones with the right answer, and the whole world has it wrong, that would be the definition of pure arrogance. Those who claim exclusive supremacy should expect to be called out on that arrogance.
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 3, 2018 22:37:01 GMT -5
If you want to push back, make sure you got it right! Make sure you are NOT holding the wrong end of the stick yourself or you will get hurt at the end, and look ridiculous. Well at least you are consistent in thinking there is only one right way, and you found it. If we were talking about any other subject and one group claimed they are the only ones with the right answer, and the whole world has it wrong, that would be the definition of pure arrogance. Those who claim exclusive supremacy should expect to be called out on that arrogance. But don't forget xna ... strange stranges and everyone who believes Jesus lives in Venus is right as well, according to nathan !
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Post by nathan on Nov 3, 2018 22:37:02 GMT -5
If you want to push back, make sure you got it right! Make sure you are NOT holding the wrong end of the stick yourself or you will get hurt at the end, and look ridiculous. Well at least you are consistent in thinking there is only one right way, and you found it. If we were talking about any other subject and one group claimed they are the only ones with the right answer, and the whole world has it wrong, that would be the definition of pure arrogance. Those who claim exclusive supremacy should expect to be called out on that arrogance. Jesus claimed He was the ONLY way, the Truth, and Life NO man comes to the Father BUT through Him. Was He arrogance? and His apostles made the same claim, they have the ONLY way fellowship those who departed from them were doom. Was Jesus and His apostles, arrogance in saying that? Or were they TELLING the TRUTH according to you?
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 3, 2018 22:46:04 GMT -5
Well at least you are consistent in thinking there is only one right way, and you found it. If we were talking about any other subject and one group claimed they are the only ones with the right answer, and the whole world has it wrong, that would be the definition of pure arrogance. Those who claim exclusive supremacy should expect to be called out on that arrogance. Jesus claimed He was the ONLY way, the Truth, and Life NO man comes to the Father BUT through Him. Was He arrogance? and His apostles made the same claim, they have the ONLY way fellowship those who departed from them were doom. Was Jesus and His apostles, arrogance in saying that? Or were they TELLING the TRUTH according to you?
By that logic Stranges (your hero) is doomed then nathan !!
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Post by xna on Nov 3, 2018 22:49:44 GMT -5
Well at least you are consistent in thinking there is only one right way, and you found it. If we were talking about any other subject and one group claimed they are the only ones with the right answer, and the whole world has it wrong, that would be the definition of pure arrogance. Those who claim exclusive supremacy should expect to be called out on that arrogance. Jesus claimed He was the ONLY way, the Truth, and Life NO man comes to the Father BUT through Him. Was He arrogance? and His apostles made the same claim, they have the ONLY way fellowship those who departed from them were doom. Was Jesus and His apostles, arrogance in saying that? Or were they TELLING the TRUTH according to you?
But it's not Jesus alone that the 2x2 preach, they add "but only by this way". That extra that's added (exclusivism) is what moves it down on the list of Christian sects. The 2x2 is a new a NRM (New Religious Movement). I suspect either they will reform towards more a ecumenicalism sect, or splinter into more sects, or just fade away.
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Post by nathan on Nov 3, 2018 22:57:22 GMT -5
Jesus claimed He was the ONLY way, the Truth, and Life NO man comes to the Father BUT through Him. Was He arrogance? and His apostles made the same claim, they have the ONLY way fellowship those who departed from them were doom. Was Jesus and His apostles, arrogance in saying that? Or were they TELLING the TRUTH according to you?
But it's not Jesus alone that the 2x2 preach, they add "but only by this way". That extra that's added (exclusivism) is what moves it down on the list of Christian sects. The 2x2 is a new a NRM (New Religious Movement). I suspect either they will reform towards more a ecumenicalism sect, or splinter into more sects, or just fade away. ~~ Jesus was VERY exclusive preacher so were His apostles. Their WAYS or the Highway. Jesus has a WAY, fellowship of the New Testament believers. Jesus and the apostles had a 2x2 apostolic ministry. Jesus foretold this to Peter, "Upon this ROCK, I will build MY CHURCH! and the gates of HELL shall NOT prevail against it." Jesus TRUE church will continue to survive through the centuries under the RADAR so to speak (Rev. 11), until He returns to take the Rest of the Church to united with the whole Church coming down from the sky.
The RCC got the ONLY Right Church teaching from Jesus and His apostles... The Celibacy priests.. but they went off the tracks and had their own RCC Pope, bishops, Cardinals, priests celibacy ministry... and their own pagans religions, mix with the Old and New Testament teaching of Jesus in ONE bowl.
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 3, 2018 23:06:19 GMT -5
Jesus claimed He was the ONLY way, the Truth, and Life NO man comes to the Father BUT through Him. Was He arrogance? and His apostles made the same claim, they have the ONLY way fellowship those who departed from them were doom. Was Jesus and His apostles, arrogance in saying that? Or were they TELLING the TRUTH according to you?
By that logic Stranges (your hero) is doomed then nathan !! Did Stange belong to a 2x2 apostolic ministry nathan ?
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Post by nathan on Nov 3, 2018 23:23:11 GMT -5
By that logic Stranges (your hero) is doomed then nathan !! Did Stange belong to a 2x2 apostolic ministry nathan ? Nope. But if he had met the 2x2 workers or the friends he would accept them open arms. but they might NOT believe all of his stories. However, I would LOVE to have a week visit with Frank E. Stranges, we have many understanding and things in common. I'd ask him MANY questions, about his time inside the Inner earth, Inner Venus, and his time meeting with Jesus interior planet Venus.
Here are some of my questions would be Has Jesus, God the Father always been living inside the Interior of planet Venus for millions, billions of year? Is this their visible kingdom? Is the 800 F. heat on the surface of Venus a SHIELD protection from invaders/ETs, fallen angels and humans to enter His kingdom.
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 3, 2018 23:57:09 GMT -5
Did Stange belong to a 2x2 apostolic ministry nathan ? Nope. But if he had met the 2x2 workers or the friends he would accept them open arms. but they might NOT believe all of his stories. However, I would LOVE to have a week visit with Frank E. Stranges, we have many understanding and things in common. I'd ask him MANY questions, about his time inside the Inner earth, Inner Venus, and his time meeting with Jesus interior planet Venus.
Here are some of my questions would be Has Jesus, God the Father always been living inside the Interior of planet Venus for millions, billions of year? Is this their visible kingdom? Is the 800 F. heat on the surface of Venus a SHIELD protection from invaders/ETs, fallen angels and humans to enter His kingdom.
ASSuming again I see nathan.... You have no idea whether Stanges would have accepted the 2x2 church or not ! Surely God would have lead him to it of it is so right ! So it is only some people who are doomed by your logic ...can't have your hero doomed can we 😄😄
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Post by nathan on Nov 4, 2018 0:00:59 GMT -5
Nope. But if he had met the 2x2 workers or the friends he would accept them open arms. but they might NOT believe all of his stories. However, I would LOVE to have a week visit with Frank E. Stranges, we have many understanding and things in common. I'd ask him MANY questions, about his time inside the Inner earth, Inner Venus, and his time meeting with Jesus interior planet Venus.
Here are some of my questions would be Has Jesus, God the Father always been living inside the Interior of planet Venus for millions, billions of year? Is this their visible kingdom? Is the 800 F. heat on the surface of Venus a SHIELD protection from invaders/ETs, fallen angels and humans to enter His kingdom.
ASSuming again I see nathan .... You have no idea whether Stanges would have accepted the 2x2 church or not ! Surely God would have lead him to it of it is so right ! So it is only some people who are doomed by your logic ...can't have your hero doomed can we 😄😄 hahaha... I will let God be the judge of who SAVES or NOT... God KNEW of Frank S. heart if he had the chance in meeting with the workers or the friends. I would welcome and accept him with open arms, I BELIEVE his story. Christ from Venus/heaven, and now He/Jesus has returned to the planet that He came from... And He will return the earth as King of kings and the LORD of lords to put ALL his enemies under His feat, and to defeat Satan and his fallen angels once and for ALL.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Nov 4, 2018 0:38:22 GMT -5
Jesus claimed He was the ONLY way, the Truth, and Life NO man comes to the Father BUT through Him. Was He arrogance? and His apostles made the same claim, they have the ONLY way fellowship those who departed from them were doom. Was Jesus and His apostles, arrogance in saying that? Or were they TELLING the TRUTH according to you?
But it's not Jesus alone that the 2x2 preach, they add "but only by this way". That extra that's added (exclusivism) is what moves it down on the list of Christian sects. The 2x2 is a new a NRM (New Religious Movement). I suspect either they will reform towards more a ecumenicalism sect, or splinter into more sects, or just fade away. I pick fade away. They have only been around for just over a hundred years and do not have the presence that other religions have.
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Post by nathan on Nov 4, 2018 0:52:59 GMT -5
But it's not Jesus alone that the 2x2 preach, they add "but only by this way". That extra that's added (exclusivism) is what moves it down on the list of Christian sects. The 2x2 is a new a NRM (New Religious Movement). I suspect either they will reform towards more a ecumenicalism sect, or splinter into more sects, or just fade away. I pick fade away. They have only been around for just over a hundred years and do not have the presence that other religions have. So, where is the 1st century New Testament Church and ministry is today? Didn't Jesus say to Peter, "Upon this ROCK/Christ I will build MY CHURCH and the GATES of HELL shall NOT prevail against it?" Can you tell me, where is the Church that Jesus and the apostles established 2000 yrs ago? If it faded away.... Then Did Jesus was NOT telling the Truth? about gates of HELL shall NOT prevail against it... Or there is something you do NOT know or understand about.
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Post by jetmech on Nov 4, 2018 1:41:19 GMT -5
Jetmech, I have not made any comment poking fun at what the workers were in that photo. As for god. You know what I believe, anyone taking seriously a make believe figure leaves themselves open for a bit of fun. As for workers making fun of me. Yes that has happened in the past from one or two arrogant workers. jetmech seems to have forgotten how he "poked fun" at a certain female minister recently curlywurlysammagee ! But of course he justified it by saying she was a "worldly preacher" I don't consider her a legitimate ministe
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Post by dmmichgood on Nov 4, 2018 3:58:58 GMT -5
I knew what you were saying. :-) My point was is if you really want a slower paced lifestyle you can choose that lifestyle. The Amish lifestyle may look easy, but it's not. The key to adult leisure is; reduced wants for stuff, having a lot of kids and making them work for you. In days of old by age 40 they may have had a dozen kids, and the adults job was mainly supervisory. Besides flying on a jet plane makes time slow down just a little, so you can have more time in your day than was possible in 1918. I didn't intend to insinuate whatsoever that we live a slower lifestyle. I didn't ... I swear it, and,I've seen Amish on aircraft and trains; but, what I'm saying is we need to make some "adjustments" ... to compromise if you will. Specifically, we need to back off our gadgetry. Take TV for example, it is one of our biggest time stealers and it becomes an idol very easily when people spend hours upon hours in front of the "box" and relinguish prescious time that could have been spent doing productive things, like more praying and bible reading; which is why the bible admonishes us against idoltry I believe. When our gadgets control us they become as idols, and that is where the problems arise. The picture of the workers is peaceful, modesty-invoking of a relaxed folk who have peace and serenity in this crazy world and they have time to read and pray and hold meetings, because they shun worldliness and the vanity if gadgetry. Except, jetmech, -your view of the friends and workers as peaceful and a relaxed people isn't real!
The anxiety level among such a group is got to be exceptionally high!
The hierarchy of who controls whom, -even among the workers, -let alone among the friends, is unprecedented in many other modern religious groups.
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Post by jetmech on Nov 4, 2018 7:17:17 GMT -5
jetmech seems to have forgotten how he "poked fun" at a certain female minister recently curlywurlysammagee ! But of course he justified it by saying she was a "worldly preacher" I don't consider her a legitimate ministe I think "preacher ... or anything connecting GOD to her is too good for her ... I consider her a disgusting, radical, nazi feminist!!!
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Post by jetmech on Nov 4, 2018 7:22:37 GMT -5
I could same some crude thing like tell GOD that on your death bed ... IF you get the chance, but I won't ... instead, I'd like to say you have every right to believe as you wish; but, the workers have just as much of a right to believe and live as they choose. You make fun of that photo of the Kansas convention and follow it by negative comments regarding GOD, so evidentally you see some type of relationship between those workers and GOD. Think about it ... you have every right to believe and live as YOU choose. GOD created you that way and gave you the freedom to choose your destiny ... now, with that said, have any of those workers made fun of you or have they made fun of photos of you? They NEVER will. Ever ...I'm saying people should respect their rights as much as they respect theirs. I don't feel comfortable myself making fun of GOD or the existence of GOD and I would never do it ... even if it meant death for me. Jetmech, I have not made any comment poking fun at what the workers were in that photo. As for god. You know what I believe, anyone taking seriously a make believe figure leaves themselves open for a bit of fun. As for workers making fun of me. Yes that has happened in the past from one or two
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 4, 2018 7:26:04 GMT -5
I don't consider her a legitimate ministe I think "preacher ... or anything connecting GOD to her is too good for her ... I consider her a disgusting, radical, nazi feminist!!! Goodness me jetmech your christian attitude is shining through ! I would have thought that as a Christian you would remember God is suppose to be the judge!
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Post by jetmech on Nov 4, 2018 7:27:22 GMT -5
Believe it or not the same thing has happened to me; but, I know many genuinely good workers. Clinton Heldstab is a good example. He's deceased now but he was a very good person. I can't imagine him ever having even one enemy.
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Post by xna on Nov 4, 2018 7:56:17 GMT -5
Believe it or not the same thing has happened to me; but, I know many genuinely good workers. Clinton Heldstab is a good example. He's deceased now but he was a very good person. I can't imagine him ever having even one enemy. If he preached the 2x2 exclusivism policy, then other sects which were also exclusive would have called him the enemy. That's the price of exclusivism. When preaching Jesus alone is not enough, your enemies are those who also preach exclusivism, but are not from your tribe.
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Post by xna on Nov 4, 2018 8:41:28 GMT -5
Jesus claimed He was the ONLY way, the Truth, and Life NO man comes to the Father BUT through Him. Was He arrogance? and His apostles made the same claim, they have the ONLY way fellowship those who departed from them were doom. Was Jesus and His apostles, arrogance in saying that? Or were they TELLING the TRUTH according to you?
This is how I see it.Judaism, Christianity and Islam all have the primary focus on "the god". In some other non-Abrahamic religions the focus is more on "the self", their growth and and their interaction with other people, and how they fit into nature. So, yes the Abrahamic religions have the more arrogant position than the non-Abrahamic religions.
I like the second group better than the 1st group. But there is no reason to follow any. Pick the good parts for each and discard the supernatural mumbo jumbo.Now within Christianity, some sects are more exclusive than others. The "tell" is if you have joined one and then join another, do they make you be re-baptized? If they require re-baptism, then Jesus alone is not enough for them, and you have to have their secret sauce.The 2x2 fall into the more arrogant sects.
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Post by nathan on Nov 4, 2018 9:05:20 GMT -5
Jesus claimed He was the ONLY way, the Truth, and Life NO man comes to the Father BUT through Him. Was He arrogance? and His apostles made the same claim, they have the ONLY way fellowship those who departed from them were doom. Was Jesus and His apostles, arrogance in saying that? Or were they TELLING the TRUTH according to you?
1) Xna wrote: This is how I see it. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all have the primary focus on "the god". In some other non-Abrahamic religions the focus is more on "the self", their growth and and their interaction with other people, and how they fit into nature. So, yes the Abrahamic religions have the more arrogant position than the non-Abrahamic religions.
~~ You see the "Abrahamic and Christianity" as arrogance religion but it's the TRUTH, there is no way round about it. Take it or leave it kind of thing. Peter said to the Jews who didn't believe in Jesus as the Messiah/Savior in Acts 4:10-12 10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
It's Christ who SAVES us NOT John the Baptist! He was a messenger NOT a Savior of our Soul.
2) I like the second group better than the 1st group. But there is no reason to follow any. Pick the good parts for each and discard the supernatural mumbo jumbo.Now within Christianity, some sects are more exclusive than others. The "tell" is if you have joined one and then join another, do they make you be re-baptized? If they require re-baptism, then Jesus alone is not enough for them, and you have to have their secret sauce. The 2x2 fall into the more arrogant sects. ~~ Well, we read in the Gospels about two of John the Baptist disciples re-baptized when they became followers and apostles of Jesus. We also read in Acts 19 Paul decided to re-baptize 12 disciples of John the Baptists and it was approval by God because the Holy Spirit came upon them.
I was a Pentecostal believer and baptized by my preacher, but it was my choice that I wanted the workers to re-baptize me after I professed. John the apostle wrote I John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
For an example, a couple decides to get married, they don't want to go to a fraud or unqualified judge to sign their marriage license do they?
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Post by xna on Nov 4, 2018 10:10:08 GMT -5
~~... it's the TRUTH, there is no way round about it. Take it or leave it kind of thing ...
You should start a new thread something like.... " We are NOT ARROGANT - Just the only right ones" as we are drifting away from the convention photo discussion. :-) For an example, a couple decides to get married, they don't want to go to a fraud or unqualified judge to sign their marriage license do they?
Marriage is a social construct aka "traditions of men". Traditions change with the times. You can see people don't need to get married to be happy, don't need to get married to be good parents, and don't even need to be the same sex. No judge need sign a marriage license. For me I have a traditional marriage. We met in high school and have been happy and faithful all our lives. But I don't think that's for everyone. There isn't one shoe that fits all feet. Everyone should find their own happiness in what way works for them and doesn't harm others. You only have one life to live, make the most of it, before it's too late.
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Post by nathan on Nov 4, 2018 11:49:47 GMT -5
~~... it's the TRUTH, there is no way round about it. Take it or leave it kind of thing ...
You should start a new thread something like.... " We are NOT ARROGANT - Just the only right ones" as we are drifting away from the convention photo discussion. :-) For an example, a couple decides to get married, they don't want to go to a fraud or unqualified judge to sign their marriage license do they?
Marriage is a social construct aka "traditions of men". Traditions change with the times. You can see people don't need to get married to be happy, don't need to get married to be good parents, and don't even need to be the same sex. No judge need sign a marriage license. For me I have a traditional marriage. We met in high school and have been happy and faithful all our lives. But I don't think that's for everyone. There isn't one shoe that fits all feet. Everyone should find their own happiness in what way works for them and doesn't harm others. You only have one life to live, make the most of it, before it's too late. Well, Xna... you live your life the way you believe is right and true for you and I will live my life the way I believe. God will be the judge of Our Eternal destiny. That is my belief and understanding.
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