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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 28, 2018 12:34:30 GMT -5
Evangelical- A word never found in the Bible. Any thoughts on how to help others who have found themselves in this movement? I'm going on a limb and guessing you're professing? When we were going to meetings, any word that sounded to "worldly" got lumped into the catch - all bin of "false religion". In essence, if the workers and pillars weren't saying it, it was part of false religion. The workers are in theory evangelical (though to claim they're not at this point in history it's probably more accurate). Likewise, the <friends/truth/fellowship /2x2s/true way/Christian Conventions> are technically "Baptists" (though not affiliated), since they practice full immersion baptism. If you're professing, these terms (especially when accompanied with odd worldly things like talking about Jesus) can sound strange to the ears. I read the other day that TW had said that the workers would work "on what they had", and not do gospel missions. I had noticed that their gospel mtgs they did have were often in one of the friend's homes.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 28, 2018 12:39:21 GMT -5
I'm going on a limb and guessing you're professing? When we were going to meetings, any word that sounded to "worldly" got lumped into the catch - all bin of "false religion". In essence, if the workers and pillars weren't saying it, it was part of false religion. The workers are in theory evangelical (though to claim they're not at this point in history it's probably more accurate). Likewise, the <friends/truth/fellowship /2x2s/true way/Christian Conventions> are technically "Baptists" (though not affiliated), since they practice full immersion baptism. If you're professing, these terms (especially when accompanied with odd worldly things like talking about Jesus) can sound strange to the ears. I saw the legal documents of a Scottish worker who had come to Canada to preach. He had registered himself as an "evangelist" as a profession. How long ago? Some who work in foreign fields register as missionaries.
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Post by snow on Oct 28, 2018 12:40:48 GMT -5
I saw the legal documents of a Scottish worker who had come to Canada to preach. He had registered himself as an "evangelist" as a profession. How long ago? Some who work in foreign fields register as missionaries. Or TESOL workers. That is not truthful. When I heard that I was surprised that they would lie to get into the country.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 28, 2018 12:41:42 GMT -5
That's preaching athiesm dmmg. But it's not preaching "the gospel" -- it can't be called evangelizing if it's not preaching the "good news gospel". Why degrade the gospel word by associating it with atheism? And you posted this? 😉
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 28, 2018 12:45:25 GMT -5
How long ago? Some who work in foreign fields register as missionaries. Or TESOL workers. That is not truthful. When I heard that I was surprised that they would lie to get into the country. Often that's the only way they can get into some areas as missionary/evangelists are prohibited.
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Post by intelchips on Oct 28, 2018 12:54:23 GMT -5
Bob says: “ I perceive that when anyone on here tries to explain something about Christians [what they] don't understand, Christians interpret it as persuading.”
Well that could be true but I oft times think it is in defence to disbelieving what I have just read. And do I understand what I just read.
Example:
Was Paul lowered in a basket “TWICE?” Was it really necessary or did he just like basket rides?
Cheers
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 28, 2018 13:04:21 GMT -5
I saw the legal documents of a Scottish worker who had come to Canada to preach. He had registered himself as an "evangelist" as a profession. How long ago? Some who work in foreign fields register as missionaries. That would have been about 45 years ago. Is there a substantial difference between a missionary and an evangelist?
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 28, 2018 13:06:40 GMT -5
But it's not preaching "the gospel" -- it can't be called evangelizing if it's not preaching the "good news gospel". Why degrade the gospel word by associating it with atheism? And you posted this? 😉 Yes -- with the hope that whoever reads it could be a little bit more self-reflective than self-righteous.
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 28, 2018 13:09:40 GMT -5
How long ago? Some who work in foreign fields register as missionaries. Or TESOL workers. That is not truthful. When I heard that I was surprised that they would lie to get into the country. Some workers do actually teach English. But then, a lot of others just teach gospel "in English".
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Post by intelchips on Oct 28, 2018 13:27:27 GMT -5
I might ought to point out that the English word Gospel has an etymology going back to Greek meaning ideas such as "GOOD TIDINGS, "BRINGIN GOOD TIDINGS and the rare but useful application meaning "A MESSANGERS REWARD." But even beyond all these here is a message from Xenophon as early as the fourth Century B.C. appearing outside Christian Literature announcing the birth of the emperor Augustus as "the beginning of good tidings for the world." Thus as I read it was used always in connection with selling Pax Romana: the peace that existed between nationalities within the Roman Empire. This then leads one to understand that all The Greek Gospels coupled Pax Romana with the story of Jesus while the Hebrew hated Rome with a vengeful hatred.
While true that in English, the word gospel is laden with religious meaning, during the times of when Jesus and the apostles used the word euangelion (good news/gospel) they were using a nonreligious word from their culture.
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Post by nathan on Oct 28, 2018 13:57:20 GMT -5
Or TESOL workers. That is not truthful. When I heard that I was surprised that they would lie to get into the country. Some workers do actually teach English. But then, a lot of others just teach gospel "in English". ** Early 2000s an American worker and perhaps other workers and some of the friends went to Vietnam with TESOL degree certificate to teach Engish in the English school that belong to the friends.
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Post by withlove on Oct 28, 2018 15:28:39 GMT -5
Evangelical- A word never found in the Bible. Any thoughts on how to help others who have found themselves in this movement? I'm going on a limb and guessing you're professing? When we were going to meetings, any word that sounded to "worldly" got lumped into the catch - all bin of "false religion". In essence, if the workers and pillars weren't saying it, it was part of false religion. The workers are in theory evangelical (though to claim they're not at this point in history it's probably more accurate). Likewise, the <friends/truth/fellowship /2x2s/true way/Christian Conventions> are technically "Baptists" (though not affiliated), since they practice full immersion baptism. If you're professing, these terms (especially when accompanied with odd worldly things like talking about Jesus) can sound strange to the ears. One of those terms is "Christian."
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 28, 2018 16:35:20 GMT -5
Some workers do actually teach English. But then, a lot of others just teach gospel "in English". ** Early 2000s an American worker and perhaps other workers and some of the friends went to Vietnam with TESOL degree certificate to teach Engish in the English school that belong to the friends. I heard about that. Somehow they never got to teach in the school.
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Post by nathan on Oct 28, 2018 17:06:47 GMT -5
** Early 2000s an American worker and perhaps other workers and some of the friends went to Vietnam with TESOL degree certificate to teach Engish in the English school that belong to the friends. I heard about that. Somehow they never got to teach in the school. I showed you the testimony of the friends and the workers who taught in the school in Vietnam in the past. Don't you remember? David G. was from San Francisco area when I first met him in 1980. I met two professing Americans at Boring conventions a few years back, when they went to Vietnam and taught in the school over there. So, how can you say they NEVER got to teach in the school?
I have seen David G. face book pictures of where many of his Vietnamese students had a going away party/retired back to the United States for him also. I believe the school is closed now... Once the country opened up.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 28, 2018 17:10:48 GMT -5
How long ago? Some who work in foreign fields register as missionaries. That would have been about 45 years ago. Is there a substantial difference between a missionary and an evangelist? Well, it seems evangelists are better funded and seem to hit the more elite areas. Whereas missionaries seem to work in poorer areas. Evangelists often are seminary educated whereas missionaries are more often from laity, but neither one are set in that.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 28, 2018 17:14:45 GMT -5
Or TESOL workers. That is not truthful. When I heard that I was surprised that they would lie to get into the country. Some workers do actually teach English. But then, a lot of others just teach gospel "in English". One sister worker from Iowa did teach at a Chinese University, and also was a student there as well.
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Post by nathan on Oct 28, 2018 17:16:39 GMT -5
That would have been about 45 years ago. Is there a substantial difference between a missionary and an evangelist? Well, it seems evangelists are better funded and seem to hit the more elite areas. Whereas missionaries seem to work in poorer areas. Evangelists often are seminary educated whereas missionaries are more often from laity, but neither one are set in that. I have seen workers gospel door to door invitations, where the workers put their titles as Evangelists, apostles, ministers. Some put missionaries. I believed my companions put our titles were Ministers on our gospel invitations when we went from door to door. The workers are all of the above, some have more gifts in one area than the others, a few workers have most of these gifts.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 28, 2018 17:19:38 GMT -5
Well, it seems evangelists are better funded and seem to hit the more elite areas. Whereas missionaries seem to work in poorer areas. Evangelists often are seminary educated whereas missionaries are more often from laity, but neither one are set in that. I have seen workers gospel door to door invitations, where the workers put their titles as Evangelists, apostles, ministers. Some put missionaries. The workers are all of the above, some have more gifts in one area than the others, a few workers have most of these gifts.According to TW, workers are all pastors, taking care of what they have and no more.
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Post by nathan on Oct 28, 2018 17:23:32 GMT -5
I have seen workers gospel door to door invitations, where the workers put their titles as Evangelists, apostles, ministers. Some put missionaries. The workers are all of the above, some have more gifts in one area than the others, a few workers have most of these gifts. According to TW, workers are all pastors, taking care of what they have and no more. All workers are pastors, they care for the churches affairs, handle problems arise in the churches and teaching correct doctrines= feeding the lambs and sheep of God. Some are better being pastors than others.
I have met and been with older workers who were GOOD preachers in the gospel meetings, good speakers at conventions tours but did POORLY as pastors in communicating with the friends on personal levels. So, the friends were afraid to approach them with their problems, because they told me about it. They didn't have the skills in communicate with others, lacking in the skill of listening, sympathy and compassion.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Oct 28, 2018 17:29:55 GMT -5
According to TW, workers are all pastors, taking care of what they have and no more. All workers are pastors, they care for the churches affairs, handle problems arise in the churches and teaching correct doctrines= feeding the lambs and sheep of God. Some are better being pastors than others.
I have met and been with older workers who were GOOD preachers in the gospel meetings, good speakers at conventions tours but do POORLY as pastors in communicating with the friends on personal levels. So, the friends were afraid to approach them with their problems, because they told me about it.I was speaking to TWs edict some years ago, that missions wouldn't be the business or the main business of the workers any more. That they would only care for what they had presently.
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Post by nathan on Oct 28, 2018 17:44:05 GMT -5
All workers are pastors, they care for the churches affairs, handle problems arise in the churches and teaching correct doctrines= feeding the lambs and sheep of God. Some are better being pastors than others.
I have met and been with older workers who were GOOD preachers in the gospel meetings, good speakers at conventions tours but do POORLY as pastors in communicating with the friends on personal levels. So, the friends were afraid to approach them with their problems, because they told me about it. I was speaking to TWs edict some years ago, that missions wouldn't be the business or the main business of the workers any more. That they would only care for what they had presently. Thanks. There are some missionaries among the workers but not many, they are those who went overseas/different countries and started new churches in new territories, no 2x2 workers or friends had been there before... Like just like Paul and Barnabas... Paul and Timothy... that was their gifts and calling.... and there are workers like Apollo. This is what Paul wrote in I Cor. I planted the gospel seed, and Apollo came after him and watered the seed, but God gives the increase. Uncle Leo Stancliff had been a missionary! He thrived at this. They went and attended different churches, meeting people and some came out of those churches. He had Bible studies at the University of Guam. He and his companions found the churches on Guam, Saipan, Ponapei, and there were workers who came after him strengthen the churches like Apollo.
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Post by rational on Oct 28, 2018 18:16:32 GMT -5
There are evangelicals amongst any group , including atheists . I have heard the question about Christians , “ are they evangelical Christians “ but I don’t recall being asked about an atheist whether they are evangelical or not , although not difficult to recognize . There are organizations ,(“churches”), devoted to evangelical atheism . Alvin An evangelical atheist is an atheist who is not content merely with his own lack of faith but is also obsessed with (i) censoring expressions of faith by others and (ii) attempting to sow disbelief in others around him. www.conservapedia.com/Evangelical_atheistI think there is a possibility that you are mixing atheists up with a far broader group. Atheists do not believe in god and there is no toaster or prize available, in this life or in an after life, for gaining 'converts'. It is not the theist's belief in a god that is the issue it is the continual attempt of theists trying to force their beliefs on others using public funds. When I was growing up there were 'blue laws' that prevented some stores from being open on Sunday. I could never see the point because no one was forced to patronize those stores on Sunday. It seemed that the law was selfish and gave credence to the quote from Mencken: Puritanism - The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.
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Post by rational on Oct 28, 2018 18:23:46 GMT -5
Or TESOL workers. That is not truthful. When I heard that I was surprised that they would lie to get into the country. Often that's the only way they can get into some areas as missionary/evangelists are prohibited. Seems like that would be a hint that they do not want to hear what is being told. When the JW's come up the walk I am up front with them and tell them I am not interested and to please make a note of it in their record book. I have never had one come back and try to get in by selling me a new roof. It might not be a good thing. St. Xavier went off to India in the mid-1530s to spread Christianity. The effort was so successful that by 1560 the Goa inquisition was established and persecuted Hindus, Muslims, Bene Israels and new christians. First thisthen this
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Post by jetmech on Oct 28, 2018 19:09:16 GMT -5
Evangelical- A word never found in the Bible. Any thoughts on how to help others who have found themselves in this movement? Billy Graham said he did not originally set out to be an evangelist, because he had always viewed the meaning of the word "evangelical" or "evangelist" to mean someone out of control, delusional, hell fire and brimstonish, and fanatical; thus he HATED the word "evangelist" when people first started calling him an evangelist. Then, he says he researched the definition of the word "evangelist." According to Billy Graham, one of the meanings of the word "evangelist" is to spread the "good news "... to relay new information. He said he then attached that meaning to himself and adopted that definition into his life. He began to identify himelf as an evangelist; but, he said it was with the understanding that the meaning of the word "evangelist" in his view was to spread the "good news" and that "good news" is the gospel of Jesus Christ dying on the cross for our sins. He says in one of his gospel audio recordings that he often admonished others to refer to him as an evangelist only as the type who spreads the GOOD NEWS of Jesus on the cross, and he from time to time ... periodically reminded others to aee him only as that type of evangelist.
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Post by intelchips on Oct 28, 2018 19:29:43 GMT -5
This whole topic seems to me to be related to what we know or think we know. Here is one of the most penetrating truths I have ever read: "The world is more complex than we can imagine, and every new point of view we encounter can enrich our understanding even if we don’t embrace it entirely. But this comes with the risk of self-effacement and growing uncertainty. Imagine that you are standing in a small clearing in the middle of a vast forest, and that this forest represents your ignorance of the world. The clearing you stand in represents your knowledge. As one gains knowledge, the clearing expands and the forest of ignorance recedes. But as the clearing expands, so does its circumference and so the area of contact between knowledge and ignorance also grows, and our knowledge of the extent of our ignorance grows with it. So, paradoxically, the wiser we become, the less wise we feel. This is the wellspring of intellectual humility, the Socratic realization that the more you know, the more you realize you don’t know, and the more apparent it becomes that your own opinions are susceptible to fallibility." It came from this article, every word of which bears reading irrespective of your ideological orientation. If you think that there is nothing here to think about . . . think again. quillette.com/2018/03/10/psychology-progressive-hostility/?fbclid=IwAR3B2bsP0kf0rtl2K_3oLd5X49sg4J_kScVSZZ3ErcXRGTnu5GDOG5fNZYc
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 28, 2018 22:31:59 GMT -5
I heard about that. Somehow they never got to teach in the school. I showed you the testimony of the friends and the workers who taught in the school in Vietnam in the past. Don't you remember? David G. was from San Francisco area when I first met him in 1980. I met two professing Americans at Boring conventions a few years back, when they went to Vietnam and taught in the school over there. So, how can you say they NEVER got to teach in the school?
I have seen David G. face book pictures of where many of his Vietnamese students had a going away party/retired back to the United States for him also. I believe the school is closed now... Once the country opened up.
I don't remember that at all.
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 28, 2018 22:34:18 GMT -5
That would have been about 45 years ago. Is there a substantial difference between a missionary and an evangelist? Well, it seems evangelists are better funded and seem to hit the more elite areas. Whereas missionaries seem to work in poorer areas. Evangelists often are seminary educated whereas missionaries are more often from laity, but neither one are set in that. You're thinking of the millionaire evangelists who are taking advantage of the present day wave of fundamentalism.
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 28, 2018 22:35:31 GMT -5
Some workers do actually teach English. But then, a lot of others just teach gospel "in English". One sister worker from Iowa did teach at a Chinese University, and also was a student there as well. I know a worker who went to university in Romania - became highly educated in the process.
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