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Post by snow on Sept 2, 2018 13:08:00 GMT -5
This is true STR. He said he would return before they died. So they did what made sense, since they wouldn't be needing anything earthly for long. They took their possessions and made them communal just waiting for Jesus to return like he promised. Didn't happen, so people started getting married again, bought possessions etc. and started writing script about how Jesus would return. Some day. Many of the apostles and people through the centuries misunderstood and misinterpreted what Jesus had said, because even He himself doesn't KNOW the time of His 2nd coming. How could he say he would return before they died. Jesus said in Matthew 24:14 This gospel of the kingdom shall PREACH and be a Witnesses to ALL nations then shall the END comes. The gospel has NOT preach to ALL nations, yet so how can Jesus return before they died? Most of the apostles and disciples died by the end of the 1st century.... and now we are living in the 21st century. Jesus will RETURN but the time is up to God the Father to decide.
So you're saying that it's a misprint? He definitely said that he would return before they died. And, why wouldn't Jesus know when he was returning if he is God and knows everything?
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Post by snow on Sept 2, 2018 13:14:52 GMT -5
Other churches meet in homes. yes there are a few and even a few new denominations that want to meet just in homes. but generally speaking those that meet in homes are just waiting till they have enough money to build a church building... Or get so big that it's impossible for everyone to have fellowship in someone's house? At the peak of the numbers for the 2x2's didn't workers start building larger buildings on the convention grounds to accommodate the increased numbers that were attending? If you suddenly had a huge number of followers would it be practical to still use homes? Even with union Sundays it's hard for each meeting group to fellowship together very often. Makes more sense to have it in a larger building. But still follow the same format. The people speak not just come to listen to a preacher speak. What I like about the 2x2's method is that if you want to profess and take part in meetings you have to actually spend some time thinking about what you are going to say. That isn't necessary for those who just go to Sunday mass and listen to a priest or preacher all the time. That's more like the format for the gospel meetings. I see both as being necessary or people would just get spiritually lazy, letting the preacher tell them what to think instead of reading a passage and actually thinking something about it. That's probably why church groups still have private bible studies over and above the lecture type Sunday mass where the priest just talks.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 2, 2018 13:29:03 GMT -5
Jesus said not to stand in public and pray such things as the man who prayed and was thankful he wasn't like the sinners wheras Jesus' comparison to a man who was afraid to lift his head and he prayed for Mercy because he was a sinner. I haven't stood on the street and prayed as either one of those men. I prayed where it shouldn't have been offensive to anyone because prayer was part of the religious service, such as conv and home mtgs. If there were people there that it offended, I'd opine they were in the wrong place not me. Jesus prayed. He prayed at the last Supper, and in the synagogues and temple, when he was participating. I also think he would say "I pray..." When he was speaking to or for someone. His objection was acainst speaking in bragging or such tones to indicate the prayerful one was lording it over others or better in God's sight. That verse doesn't just mention street corners it also mentions the synagogue. That is a church, temple, gathering of the flock. So how do you justify praying in meetings, churches and synagogues or conventions. Matthew 6:5-18 New International Version (NIV) Prayer 5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. He seems to be saying if you pray in public you are just doing so to be seen by others as praying. But Christians do it all the time and these verses definitely says don't do it. I feel he wasn't saying not to pray at all, I think again his point is not to be a hypocrite in your praying. No long high tech wording, no big sounds as talking down to those there, but as he said about the two men praying on the street. Don't be like the man who prayed big and boisterous that he was thankful he wasn't like other men. But like the poor man who smote his breast and with bowed head said, "Oh Lord, be merciful to me a sinner." T Jesus said we are to pray always. I feel that he meant that, but he didn't mean to make a show out of it before others. There is an order to church worshipping and prayer at a set time has always been expected. Otherwise might not make the MTG a place the Holy Spirit would want to be in. Supplication is a big need when one wants God's attention and blessings. Btw, the secret place praying is the place for personal praying. For ling winded needs. Public prayer isn't to be wordy not be hypocritical. Actually public MTG prayer is to get everyone in the same spirit and being open to spiritual helps.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 13:30:43 GMT -5
did you take the emblems at your bible study? probably not its called a bible study for a reason and a worship service for a reason and gospel meetings for a reason ram...they perform different functions.... Do you take the emblems at Sunday or Wednesday evening meetings? What did happen occasionally, but not as a matter of course, we all had a meal beforehand and the emblems were celebrated at that time (basically as a thanksgiving along with the meal etc). Actually, there are 7 or 8 house groups which are part of the church. Each has a degree of autonomy and the worshp/study format varies from group to group, but essentially having a similar pattern. that is highly unusual and not really biblical to worship during a wed bible study...you wouldn't be telling me a story would you? your reputation proceeds you in that manner...could you name your denom that does that?
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Post by Grant on Sept 2, 2018 13:35:28 GMT -5
Other churches meet in homes. yes there are a few and even a few new denominations that want to meet just in homes. but generally speaking those that meet in homes are just waiting till they have enough money to build a church building... Just like the Christian Church has done throughout the ages. Numbers increase so they meet in something larger to accommodate the increase in numbers. Who wants to meet with the same 10 or 12 people year in and year out. Conventions also get bigger to accommodate the numbers. Why not just rent a hall for convention. No they've spent millions on convention grounds over the years to accommodate the numbers. Churches have their smaller meetings for bible studies and larger meetings for teaching. We have the emblems in our smaller groups at times too. Jesus said to partake of the emblems as often as you are gathered together. It can be taken anywhere and anytime. Professing people don't have it at every meeting.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 2, 2018 13:36:21 GMT -5
Many of the apostles and people through the centuries misunderstood and misinterpreted what Jesus had said, because even He himself doesn't KNOW the time of His 2nd coming. How could he say he would return before they died. Jesus said in Matthew 24:14 This gospel of the kingdom shall PREACH and be a Witnesses to ALL nations then shall the END comes. The gospel has NOT preach to ALL nations, yet so how can Jesus return before they died? Most of the apostles and disciples died by the end of the 1st century.... and now we are living in the 21st century. Jesus will RETURN but the time is up to God the Father to decide.
So you're saying that it's a misprint? He definitely said that he would return before they died. And, why wouldn't Jesus know when he was returning if he is God and knows everything? What verse are you speaking about, Snow. Thanks.
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Post by snow on Sept 2, 2018 13:39:45 GMT -5
That verse doesn't just mention street corners it also mentions the synagogue. That is a church, temple, gathering of the flock. So how do you justify praying in meetings, churches and synagogues or conventions. Matthew 6:5-18 New International Version (NIV) Prayer 5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. He seems to be saying if you pray in public you are just doing so to be seen by others as praying. But Christians do it all the time and these verses definitely says don't do it. I feel he wasn't saying not to pray at all, I think again his point is not to be a hypocrite in your praying. No long high tech wording, no big sounds as talking down to those there, but as he said about the two men praying on the street. Don't be like the man who prayed big and boisterous that he was thankful he wasn't like other men. But like the poor man who smote his breast and with bowed head said, "Oh Lord, be merciful to me a sinner." T Jesus said we are to pray always. I feel that he meant that, but he didn't mean to make a show out of it before others. There is an order to church worshipping and prayer at a set time has always been expected. Otherwise might not make the MTG a place the Holy Spirit would want to be in. Supplication is a big need when one wants God's attention and blessings. Btw, the secret place praying is the place for personal praying. For ling winded needs. Public prayer isn't to be wordy not be hypocritical. Actually public MTG prayer is to get everyone in the same spirit and being open to spiritual helps. Well that's the beauty of religion. You can interpret it any way you like and because you think the holy spirit told you so, you are right. Since I don't have a holy spirit guiding me I just have to take what's written and believe it to mean what it says.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 13:40:32 GMT -5
yes there are a few and even a few new denominations that want to meet just in homes. but generally speaking those that meet in homes are just waiting till they have enough money to build a church building... Just like the Christian Church has done throughout the ages. Numbers increase so they meet in something larger to accommodate the increase in numbers. Who wants to meet with the same 10 or 12 people year in and year out. Conventions also get bigger to accommodate the numbers. Why not just rent a hall for convention. No they've spent millions on convention grounds over the years to accommodate the numbers. Churches have their smaller meetings for bible studies and larger meetings for teaching. We have the emblems in our smaller groups at times too. Jesus said to partake of the emblems as often as you are gathered together. It can be taken anywhere and anytime. Professing people don't have it at every meeting. can you name your denom that doing this..its highly unusual to take the emblems for a bible study...
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 2, 2018 13:41:45 GMT -5
I quoted in the past of Edward Cooney, where he stated the Truth and the Way is in Jesus and NOT the Workers or the fellowship is the Truth and the Way, but through the years people shorten it up to the Way and the Truth. 1) Edward Cooney wrote, " We (2x2 workers) did NOT start this Jesus Way. It was started and planned by God before we were thought of, and we are earnestly contending for the faith once delivered to the Saints and trying to separate it from the tradition of men. There was in the day, William Irvine, upon whose heart God's Spirit worked to raise him up like the judges of old, to lead back those in Christendom to the TRUTH as it is in Jesus." ( By Patricia Roberts book page 43-45)
Well, one thing Eddie apparently didn't know was we are all definitely thought of before the world ever became. As well as God's plan of salvation for his elect was planned before the world ever became.
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Post by snow on Sept 2, 2018 13:45:11 GMT -5
So you're saying that it's a misprint? He definitely said that he would return before they died. And, why wouldn't Jesus know when he was returning if he is God and knows everything? What verse are you speaking about, Snow. Thanks. Matthew 16:27-28 New International Version (NIV) 27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done. 28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” First verse says that he will reward people for what they have 'done'. So does that mean you aren't saved by grace, but are rewarded for your works? Verse two says that some standing in front of him will not die before he returns. That means it would have been within their life times. Here it is 2000+ years later and all his apostles have long since died and yet no return. Though if you believe some groups he did return in the early 1900's and is walking among us watching. Again, I can only go by what it says and it clearly says it was before some of them standing in front of him, die.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 13:50:31 GMT -5
What verse are you speaking about, Snow. Thanks. Matthew 16:27-28 New International Version (NIV) 27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done. 28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” First verse says that he will reward people for what they have 'done'. So does that mean you aren't saved by grace, but are rewarded for your works? Verse two says that some standing in front of him will not die before he returns. That means it would have been within their life times. Here it is 2000+ years later and all his apostles have long since died and yet no return. Though if you believe some groups he did return in the early 1900's and is walking among us watching. Again, I can only go by what it says and it clearly says it was before some of them standing in front of him, die. that probably means the 2nd death as an expression...similar to getting into trouble with your parents while your out and about but then saying to the kids wait till you get home cause your gonna get it....or your mom punishing you but then saying wait till your father gets home...
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 2, 2018 13:55:08 GMT -5
Nathan, the Bible Colleges which most people go to are interdenominational. A few churches might have their own but I don't know any one who has been to one of them but I know plenty of people who have been to interdenominational ones. There's an old castle that the founder of Calvary chapel bought and made it into a Bible college. It's my understanding that the professors there are from various Christian sects. They do all agree on the basic tenets of Jesus' life, purpose and divinity. I think it's in Ireland or at least in the British isles.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 2, 2018 14:05:08 GMT -5
What verse are you speaking about, Snow. Thanks. Matthew 16:27-28 New International Version (NIV) 27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done. 28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” First verse says that he will reward people for what they have 'done'. So does that mean you aren't saved by grace, but are rewarded for your works? Verse two says that some standing in front of him will not die before he returns. That means it would have been within their life times. Here it is 2000+ years later and all his apostles have long since died and yet no return. Though if you believe some groups he did return in the early 1900's and is walking among us watching. Again, I can only go by what it says and it clearly says it was before some of them standing in front of him, die. It explains that in the first verse of Matthew 17. He took Peter, James and John with him upon a high mountain and was transfigured before them. Peter refers to that time in II Peter 1:16 "For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, 'BUT were eyewitnesses of his Majesty". This is when they saw Jesus' glory. They were not to tell until after Jesus' Resurrection. They were the ones Jesus was talking about seeing him in his glory.
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Post by speak on Sept 2, 2018 14:18:15 GMT -5
What on earth is a honey-do list? It's when you wife says, "Honey, do time to do these things." Well that's a new one on me. My wife asks when i'm able to do.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 2, 2018 14:22:37 GMT -5
It's when you wife says, "Honey, do time to do these things." Well that's a new one on me. My wife asks when i'm able to do. Flattering approach.
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Post by Grant on Sept 2, 2018 15:20:09 GMT -5
Just like the Christian Church has done throughout the ages. Numbers increase so they meet in something larger to accommodate the increase in numbers. Who wants to meet with the same 10 or 12 people year in and year out. Conventions also get bigger to accommodate the numbers. Why not just rent a hall for convention. No they've spent millions on convention grounds over the years to accommodate the numbers. Churches have their smaller meetings for bible studies and larger meetings for teaching. We have the emblems in our smaller groups at times too. Jesus said to partake of the emblems as often as you are gathered together. It can be taken anywhere and anytime. Professing people don't have it at every meeting. can you name your denom that doing this..its highly unusual to take the emblems for a bible study... Not unusual at all. Every small group / life group I have been in has had the emblems from time to time. Be it Baptist to Pentecostal. We may have a devotional time in the small group when we reflect and partake of the emblems several times a year. People at times will also have the emblems with someone when visiting them in hospital too. It is not just to be taken on a Sunday morning in the home. What about the years before the workers started having Sunday morning fellowship meetings. Did they not have the emblems? God dwells in the heart. Where 2 or 3 are gathered in his name there he is in the midst. The workers have turned the Sunday morning meeting in the home into a temple where God is found. No, he's with us everywhere anytime.
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Post by snow on Sept 2, 2018 15:25:13 GMT -5
Matthew 16:27-28 New International Version (NIV) 27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done. 28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” First verse says that he will reward people for what they have 'done'. So does that mean you aren't saved by grace, but are rewarded for your works? Verse two says that some standing in front of him will not die before he returns. That means it would have been within their life times. Here it is 2000+ years later and all his apostles have long since died and yet no return. Though if you believe some groups he did return in the early 1900's and is walking among us watching. Again, I can only go by what it says and it clearly says it was before some of them standing in front of him, die. that probably means the 2nd death as an expression...similar to getting into trouble with your parents while your out and about but then saying to the kids wait till you get home cause your gonna get it....or your mom punishing you but then saying wait till your father gets home... Well that's one interpretation. I wouldn't know which one is right of course. I just know what it says. Not what it might have meant beyond what it says.
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Post by snow on Sept 2, 2018 15:27:49 GMT -5
Matthew 16:27-28 New International Version (NIV) 27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done. 28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” First verse says that he will reward people for what they have 'done'. So does that mean you aren't saved by grace, but are rewarded for your works? Verse two says that some standing in front of him will not die before he returns. That means it would have been within their life times. Here it is 2000+ years later and all his apostles have long since died and yet no return. Though if you believe some groups he did return in the early 1900's and is walking among us watching. Again, I can only go by what it says and it clearly says it was before some of them standing in front of him, die. It explains that in the first verse of Matthew 17. He took Peter, James and John with him upon a high mountain and was transfigured before them. Peter refers to that time in II Peter 1:16 "For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, 'BUT were eyewitnesses of his Majesty". This is when they saw Jesus' glory. They were not to tell until after Jesus' Resurrection. They were the ones Jesus was talking about seeing him in his glory. Again another interpretation. Maybe your's is right. I don't know. All I know is what he said. Some of you will be alive when I return. And that he would reward based on what they had done (works).
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 15:48:12 GMT -5
Do you take the emblems at Sunday or Wednesday evening meetings? What did happen occasionally, but not as a matter of course, we all had a meal beforehand and the emblems were celebrated at that time (basically as a thanksgiving along with the meal etc). Actually, there are 7 or 8 house groups which are part of the church. Each has a degree of autonomy and the worshp/study format varies from group to group, but essentially having a similar pattern. that is highly unusual and not really biblical to worship during a wed bible study...you wouldn't be telling me a story would you? your reputation proceeds you in that manner...could you name your denom that does that? You misunderstand my reputation Walls. I don't lie. I do wind ups. I hardly see this as a wind up. Rather an attempt to try and hold onto your own misconception? Can you explain what exactly you mean by 'highly unusual and not really biblical to worship during a Wed night bible study?' Are you referring to the emblems? I hope not! Actually when I think about it, our Baptist home group met for bible study (a form of worship in my view) on a Thursday evenng. Other groups met on other days of the week according to the needs of the group members.
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Post by Dennis J on Sept 2, 2018 17:53:27 GMT -5
Snow, ma’am: it appears to me you are mixing reward with eternal life. For me, they are NOT one and the same thing. Reward to my mind from the Holy Bible, is determined as you state, by works. Eternal life, everlasting life, ongoing life, by the same criteria to me is NOT determined by human works, rather by God’s gift of grace.
Not or open to argument for me, as it is just that plain and simple. Nor do I mean this to be cruel and contradictory, rather a matter of further enlightenment. You are a non believer, so it doesn’t matter one whit to you, however it does to me. I would gladly chose you as a sister in belief, if you wanted it so, but you do not, so, I cannot.
DAJ
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Post by snow on Sept 2, 2018 18:00:35 GMT -5
Snow, ma’am: it appears to me you are mixing reward with eternal life. For me, they are NOT one and the same thing. Reward to my mind from the Holy Bible, is determined as you state, by works. Eternal life, everlasting life, ongoing life, by the same criteria to me is NOT determined by human works, rather by God’s gift of grace.
Not or open to argument for me, as it is just that plain and simple. Nor do I mean this to be cruel and contradictory, rather a matter of further enlightenment. You are a non believer, so it doesn’t matter one whit to you, however it does to me. I would gladly chose you as a sister in belief, if you wanted it so, but you do not, so, I cannot.
DAJ You have raised an interesting thought. May I ask a further question? I will and you can choose if you wish to answer, how about we do it that way. If works are how your reward is determined and grace gives you the chance to live forever, then that must mean that we are all saved by grace because don't Christians believe that everyone lives forever? It's just where we'll spend it that's the issue. So basically you are saying that works gets you into heaven (reward) or hell (punishment), and grace lets you live forever in whatever place you get to go based on your works?
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 2, 2018 18:27:52 GMT -5
It explains that in the first verse of Matthew 17. He took Peter, James and John with him upon a high mountain and was transfigured before them. Peter refers to that time in II Peter 1:16 "For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, 'BUT were eyewitnesses of his Majesty". This is when they saw Jesus' glory. They were not to tell until after Jesus' Resurrection. They were the ones Jesus was talking about seeing him in his glory. Again another interpretation. Maybe your's is right. I don't know. All I know is what he said. Some of you will be alive when I return. And that he would reward based on what they had done (works). Likely those that heard him say that did think he meant he'd come back sooner except for Peter, James and John. And he'd told those three not to tell what they'd witnessed that day until after he ascended. Besides he did return before any had died. He spent forty days with his disciples before he ascended the second time. But I heard or read from Bible scholars that what he was referring to was the beginning of the next chapter where he took Peter, James and John on the mountain and they witnessed his transfiguration also Moses and Elias being there. This is him coming in his kingdom.
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Post by sharingtheriches on Sept 2, 2018 18:41:58 GMT -5
Snow, ma’am: it appears to me you are mixing reward with eternal life. For me, they are NOT one and the same thing. Reward to my mind from the Holy Bible, is determined as you state, by works. Eternal life, everlasting life, ongoing life, by the same criteria to me is NOT determined by human works, rather by God’s gift of grace.
Not or open to argument for me, as it is just that plain and simple. Nor do I mean this to be cruel and contradictory, rather a matter of further enlightenment. You are a non believer, so it doesn’t matter one whit to you, however it does to me. I would gladly chose you as a sister in belief, if you wanted it so, but you do not, so, I cannot.
DAJ You have raised an interesting thought. May I ask a further question? I will and you can choose if you wish to answer, how about we do it that way. If works are how your reward is determined and grace gives you the chance to live forever, then that must mean that we are all saved by grace because don't Christians believe that everyone lives forever? It's just where we'll spend it that's the issue. So basically you are saying that works gets you into heaven (reward) or hell (punishment), and grace lets you live forever in whatever place you get to go based on your works? No, works don't get you into heaven and no, not everybody lives forever. Believing in Jesus Christ and that his sacrifice cleanses us and saves us eternally. Paul wrote about those whose works wouldn't stand the test by fire but their souls would be saved because they believed in Jesus Christ. Otherwords they will not be rewarded for their works but they'll have eternal life. Those who do not believe in Jesus Christ or saved by grace, will not have life eternal and are in danger of the second death. Their works will be judged and whatever the Just Judge deems right for their reward, he'll give but not unto eternal life. Likely by them not being in the Book of Life, the Judge will tell them he knows them not and they are in danger of the second death. They usually get rewards for their works while on earth, such as notice amongst men, named great for such deeds etc. That's what I've always said that the workers are being beaten out of rewards after death because they're reaping them through the adulation of their people while in earth. It is right to respect them for their works sake but not as it's been for them in the last two or three generations of workers being rewarded with the best of their needs, adulation, having dining privileges without sharing with the crowd, etc.
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Post by Dennis J on Sept 2, 2018 18:49:55 GMT -5
DEAR Lady, the way you perceive what Christians believe, and how I perceive it is considerably different.
Death th to me means separation from my God, eternally, forever. To those blessed with eternal life, it means moving from this awareness to another of promise. Personally, I am very certain I was once there, and grieving over my children I was leaving behind, my God GAVE me the choice to return. I had been taught many things I did not prove true in that experience. On the other hand, I proved many things true by that experience most posting here have dismissed or ridiculed. Be that as it may be.
It is my perception that death to you and all non believers is merely an end to this life as you know it to be, nothing thereafter. I know of no Christian who believes like that. Not one over my entire lifetime. We do not. Neither I nor any other “Christian.” Personally, I believe your eternity separated from God will last until He ends it, if ever. It is NOT what I nor again any other Christian I have ever known would ever chose for you. Personally, I believe any kindness you have ever shown to a believer will not go unrewarded, which to me means you will be thankful for having shown it then.
Now this brings us to the other side, separated by a fixed gulf, to me of souls never having had our choices in life. Personally, again, I believe I will be rewarded for every kindness shown to you and those like you. How? I have NO idea! I just believe in loving kindness. Some here do not believekind I think this way. They simply do not know me, and there is little I can do about that.
Kindest Thoughts and wishes to all of you... DAJ
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Post by nathan on Sept 2, 2018 19:38:53 GMT -5
Many of the apostles and people through the centuries misunderstood and misinterpreted what Jesus had said, because even He himself doesn't KNOW the time of His 2nd coming. How could he say he would return before they died. Jesus said in Matthew 24:14 This gospel of the kingdom shall PREACH and be a Witnesses to ALL nations then shall the END comes. The gospel has NOT preach to ALL nations, yet so how can Jesus return before they died? Most of the apostles and disciples died by the end of the 1st century.... and now we are living in the 21st century. Jesus will RETURN but the time is up to God the Father to decide.
So you're saying that it's a misprint? He definitely said that he would return before they died. And, why wouldn't Jesus know when he was returning if he is God and knows everything? Misunderstanding and misinterpreting the scriptures. We went over and explained this portion of the scriptures in the past but people don't accept it. Christ/God Living in the body of a man, he had his limitation of knowing things. As a man Jesus couldn't appear and disappear as he wished like after he had received the Resurrection body.
Jesus said he doesn't know the time of his 2nd coming, no man or the angels either. ONLY the Father KNOWS when is for His time to return back on earth to rule and reign with His people. So, men should NOT try to predict the time, it is useless and hopeless, just be READY then it doesn't when He shows up.
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Post by nathan on Sept 2, 2018 20:12:07 GMT -5
What verse are you speaking about, Snow. Thanks. Matthew 16:27-28 New International Version (NIV) 27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father’s glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what they have done. 28 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” First verse says that he will reward people for what they have 'done'. So does that mean you aren't saved by grace, but are rewarded for your works? Verse two says that some standing in front of him will not die before he returns. That means it would have been within their life times. Here it is 2000+ years later and all his apostles have long since died and yet no return. Though if you believe some groups he did return in the early 1900's and is walking among us watching. Again, I can only go by what it says and it clearly says it was before some of them standing in front of him, die. ~~ NathanB: The Bible divided into chapters and verses but the Old Text were NOT breaking up ... if you were continue to read Matthew chapter 17:1-6 Where Jesus explained what he was talking in Matthew 16:27-28.
And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid.
~~ Jesus revealed to Peter, James, and John of his heavenly glory as God/Christ with God the Father, before he came down from heaven to live in the person Jesus. So, the James, Peter, and John saw the glory of Jesus before their time to die, as Jesus had told them in Matthew 16.
Jesus gave them a taste of the heavenly glory that the apostles and His true followers will share with Him when he returns in His glorious form he had before the foundation of the world. They will RULE with Him on the earth 1000 yrs. and live forever in blissful state of joy. Jesus KNEW his 12 apostles and followers would die horrible deaths in the NEXT 2000 years, so they needed encouragement to be TRUE to the end, because the REWARDS were so much greater than the terrible trials and suffering they must face.
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Post by nathan on Sept 2, 2018 20:34:49 GMT -5
yes there are a few and even a few new denominations that want to meet just in homes. but generally speaking those that meet in homes are just waiting till they have enough money to build a church building... Just like the Christian Church has done throughout the ages. Numbers increase so they meet in something larger to accommodate the increase in numbers. Who wants to meet with the same 10 or 12 people year in and year out. Conventions also get bigger to accommodate the numbers. Why not just rent a hall for convention. No they've spent millions on convention grounds over the years to accommodate the numbers. Churches have their smaller meetings for bible studies and larger meetings for teaching. We have the emblems in our smaller groups at times too. Jesus said to partake of the emblems as often as you are gathered together. It can be taken anywhere and anytime. Professing people don't have it at every meeting. In Portland and many area in Oregon and in USA, we have Sunday union meetings, where two churches come together. Each first week of the month, we meet other churches so we get to know and hear each friends testimonies in the area.
It's really nice because we see the friends in the gospel meetings but don't really get to know them. In the Sunday Union meetings, ALL can share their testimonies and usually is over in an hour. People concise their testimonies so everyone can take parts, and get to hear each others praises to God the Father, Christ and the Holy Spirit.
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Post by nathan on Sept 2, 2018 20:43:50 GMT -5
can you name your denom that doing this..its highly unusual to take the emblems for a bible study... Not unusual at all. Every small group / life group I have been in has had the emblems from time to time. Be it Baptist to Pentecostal. We may have a devotional time in the small group when we reflect and partake of the emblems several times a year. People at times will also have the emblems with someone when visiting them in hospital too. It is not just to be taken on a Sunday morning in the home. What about the years before the workers started having Sunday morning fellowship meetings. Did they not have the emblems? God dwells in the heart. Where 2 or 3 are gathered in his name there he is in the midst. The workers have turned the Sunday morning meeting in the home into a temple where God is found. No, he's with us everywhere anytime. Yes, I agree God wants to dwell in our hearts as His home. However, Jesus has establish in LUKE 22, where He and the 12 apostles came together to celebrate the Passover Lamb of God. They continue this type of Christ's Passover meals in the New Testament and to worship God the Father, singing hymns, given thanks to Jesus life, death and resurrection until He comes again.
We read in the New Testament in the scriptures the apostles and followers of Jesus gathered in the homes of believers (2-3, 10-20 people) to worship God on first day of the week/Sunday and have fellowship with one another to encourage each others to continue in the LORD, keep the fire of God's LOVE burning strong within our hearts.
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