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Post by nathan on Sept 1, 2018 20:45:42 GMT -5
Other churches meet in homes. Yes, I have attended churches met in homes just like the 2x2s but they didn't have Jesus apostolic/2x2 workers/preachers ministry, without homes of their own, no salary, no seminary, unmarried like Jesus.
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Post by Grant on Sept 1, 2018 20:57:07 GMT -5
Can't you answer a simple question? Did Jesus speak in tongues?Read my post. I said that tongues did not happen until after the resurrection. Jesus left them and sent the Holy Spirit in his place. Who was resurrected if it was not Jesus? He did not speak in tongues but sent the Holy Spirit and those who believed spoke in tongues. Speak, if this did not answer your question did Jesus speak in tongues then I don't know what would? I wrote the above yesterday in answer to your question. Did Jesus speak in tongues? You keep claiming I did not answer your question. You accuse me of still not answering your question in your last post 5 up from this one. .
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Post by Grant on Sept 1, 2018 21:11:03 GMT -5
Other churches meet in homes. Yes, I have attended churches met in homes just like the 2x2s but they didn't have Jesus apostolic/2x2 workers/preachers ministry, without homes of their own, no salary, no seminary, unmarried like Jesus.Perhaps Jesus was their focus and not man's effort. The workers can do with learning from others be it seminary or bible college. They lack understanding of the Bible outside of their little circle. The workers get all the money they want. Many people don't own homes. Many pastors don't own their own homes, they stay in rented houses or houses which belong to the church, not their own. Jesus said the workman is worthy of his hire. Nothing wrong with being married or owning their own home. There is a big difference between a pastor who shepherds believers and evangelists. You seem to confuse the 2 Nathan. Evangelists and missionarues are different from pastors or ministers. Of course evangelists and missionaries have to leave their homes and go out preaching. They can't reach anyone staying home.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 1, 2018 21:11:24 GMT -5
Read my post. I said that tongues did not happen until after the resurrection. Jesus left them and sent the Holy Spirit in his place. Who was resurrected if it was not Jesus? He did not speak in tongues but sent the Holy Spirit and those who believed spoke in tongues. Speak, if this did not answer your question did Jesus speak in tongues then I don't know what would? I wrote the above yesterday in answer to your question. Did Jesus speak in tongues? You keep claiming I did not answer your question. You accuse me of still not answering your question in your last post 5 up from this one. . He must be busy with his Honey-do list.
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Post by nathan on Sept 1, 2018 21:23:35 GMT -5
Yes, I have attended churches met in homes just like the 2x2s but they didn't have Jesus apostolic/2x2 workers/preachers ministry, without homes of their own, no salary, no seminary, unmarried like Jesus. Perhaps Jesus was their focus and not man's effort. The workers can do with learning from others be it seminary or bible college. They lack understanding of the Bible outside of their little circle. The workers get all the money they want. Many people don't own homes. Many pastors don't own their own homes, they stay in rented houses or houses which belong to the church, not their own. Jesus said the workman is worthy of his hire. Nothing wrong with being married or owning their own home. There is a big difference between a pastor who shepherds believers and evangelists. You seem to confuse the 2 Nathan. Evangelists and missionarues are different from pastors or ministers. Of course evangelists and missionaries have to leave their homes and go out preaching. They can't reach anyone staying home. Each denomination Bible seminary has their own interpretation/understanding of the Bible according to their churches belief. So, I would NOT recommend Bible College for anyone. A person can learn or read almost any subject on line these days. No, I am NOT confuse.... You see before I met the workers in 1978, I planned to attend Ninot, North Dakota Pentecostal Seminary Bible College. My Pentecostal shared with me the rope of what I must study and different types of courses at the Bible College for 4 yrs and so on. How they live/support, and which kind of wife to look for, which type/style of the preachers to become that attract more people to come and listen and become members. Your understanding of different gifts for those in the ministry is NOT according to the early apostles Eph. 4:11-14. You have NEVER have been a worker so your lack of understanding is showing.
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Post by speak on Sept 1, 2018 21:31:22 GMT -5
Speak, if this did not answer your question did Jesus speak in tongues then I don't know what would? I wrote the above yesterday in answer to your question. Did Jesus speak in tongues? You keep claiming I did not answer your question. You accuse me of still not answering your question in your last post 5 up from this one. . He must be busy with his Honey-do list. What on earth is a honey-do list?
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 2, 2018 0:14:59 GMT -5
He must be busy with his Honey-do list. What on earth is a honey-do list? It's when you wife says, "Honey, do time to do these things."
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 2, 2018 0:23:56 GMT -5
You wrote above " How could Jesus reach people if he did (speak in tongues). Unless you change your attitude, i will not be responding to anymore of your posts on this subject. I understand it's night in your part of the world. Sleep well. " How could Jesus reach people if he did (speak in tongues) is not the same as that Jesus could not reach people if he spoke in tongues. Understand?
Oh well you will do as you wish. And you still could not/would not answer the question Did Jesus speak in tongues. I don't expect an answer because I know you don't know. "Did Jesus speak in tongues?"
Does it say anywhere in the OT or OT?
When was the first time it ever mentioned in the bible about "speaking in tongues?"
Wasn't that after his death?
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 2, 2018 0:26:10 GMT -5
" How could Jesus reach people if he did (speak in tongues) is not the same as that Jesus could not reach people if he spoke in tongues. Understand?
Oh well you will do as you wish. And you still could not/would not answer the question Did Jesus speak in tongues. I don't expect an answer because I know you don't know. "Did Jesus speak in tongues?"
Does it say anywhere in the OT or OT?
When was the first time it ever mentioned in the bible about "speaking in tongues?"
Wasn't that after his death? Yes, it was.
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Post by speak on Sept 2, 2018 2:39:10 GMT -5
" How could Jesus reach people if he did (speak in tongues) is not the same as that Jesus could not reach people if he spoke in tongues. Understand?
Oh well you will do as you wish. And you still could not/would not answer the question Did Jesus speak in tongues. I don't expect an answer because I know you don't know. "Did Jesus speak in tongues?"
Does it say anywhere in the OT or OT?
When was the first time it ever mentioned in the bible about "speaking in tongues?"
Wasn't that after his death? Point was, Jesus by all accounts did not use the method of speaking in tongues, His life as many have stated is our example of how to do.
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Post by speak on Sept 2, 2018 2:41:26 GMT -5
IMO a statement like this is dangerously judgemental. The 2x2 ministry is completely judgemental - they regard anyone outside of their fellowship as outside of God’s Kingdom. They need to stop defining the boundaries of Fod’s Kingdom based on them and their fellowship. Why do they do it? It’s because they believe they have the only true ministry - that is, it’s about them and not about the only One who deserves all our trust and adoration. So two wrongs make it right in your book? I think we don't blurt it around as much as you do
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Post by Grant on Sept 2, 2018 3:20:37 GMT -5
Nathan, the Bible Colleges which most people go to are interdenominational.
A few churches might have their own but I don't know any one who has been to one of them but I know plenty of people who have been to interdenominational ones.
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janj
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Post by janj on Sept 2, 2018 3:55:52 GMT -5
IMO a statement like this is dangerously judgemental. The 2x2 ministry is completely judgemental - they regard anyone outside of their fellowship as outside of God’s Kingdom. They need to stop defining the boundaries of Fod’s Kingdom based on them and their fellowship. Why do they do it? It’s because they believe they have the only true ministry - that is, it’s about them and not about the only One who deserves all our trust and adoration. No Ross - you were the one doing all the judging-dont try and make it about someone else.
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Post by Roselyn T on Sept 2, 2018 5:04:35 GMT -5
No Ross - you were the one doing all the judging-dont try and make it about someone else. Just stating facts - I’m definitely not judging them to hell which is what many workers do all the time. I look forward to the day when they publicly rebuke themselves and their people who call their fellowship “the truth” and state Jesus is “the truth”. I hope it occurs. It seems some people don't like to face facts Ross.Bowden ! I suppose the next thing will be that we have it wrong... the workers have never said they were the "only right way" or spoken against "Worldly churches" !
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 5:52:56 GMT -5
No Ross - you were the one doing all the judging-dont try and make it about someone else. Just stating facts - I’m definitely not judging them to hell which is what many workers do all the time. I look forward to the day when they publicly rebuke themselves and their people who call their fellowship “the truth” and state Jesus is “the truth”. I hope it occurs. ummm i believe that there is a little less facts being stated here and a whole lot of opinion..just sayin'
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 6:14:57 GMT -5
Tongues was a temporary reversal of what happened after the Tower of Babel. If you don't believe me, ask me! Acts 2, 10, and 19 the Miracle tongues was the reverse of what happened at the Tower of Babel. The Miracle tongues in Acts sent people away rejoicing, praising God. Tower of Babel God confused their languages so they could NOT communicate and understand each another, and they went away unhappy.
The tongues of the Pentecostal speakers today, when people go away they scratching their heads with confusion?
The tongues that the 2x2 use in their worship Sunday morning meetings, people go away rejoicing because they understand the message God has for them clearly.Thanks Nathan, but my clear instructions were to 'ask me!' I'm a very proud guy!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 6:21:07 GMT -5
Other churches meet in homes. yes there are a few and even a few new denominations that want to meet just in homes. but generally speaking those that meet in homes are just waiting till they have enough money to build a church building... Negs Walls, negs. Many denoms have home meetings in addition to their Sunday church hall gatherings. Also, many more home churches are forming because the more sincere amongst the congregations are rather weary of the bilge that is getting spewed out week after week.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 6:25:31 GMT -5
yes there are a few and even a few new denominations that want to meet just in homes. but generally speaking those that meet in homes are just waiting till they have enough money to build a church building... Negs Walls, negs. Many denoms have home meetings in addition to their Sunday church hall gatherings. Also, many more home churches are forming because the more sincere amongst the congregations are rather weary of the bilge that is getting spewed out week after week. hmmmm i have heard of church building gatherers having weekly bible studies in the home but not a 2nd worship service outside their own church building...can you name the denom that does that?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 6:40:38 GMT -5
Negs Walls, negs. Many denoms have home meetings in addition to their Sunday church hall gatherings. Also, many more home churches are forming because the more sincere amongst the congregations are rather weary of the bilge that is getting spewed out week after week. hmmmm i have heard of church building gatherers having weekly bible studies in the home but not a 2nd worship service outside their own church building...can you name the denom that does that? What is the difference between weekly bible studies and a worship service? I went to weekly bible studies (evening) at my local Baptist Church for a while. Apart from no hymns being sung, they were not far removed from Wednesday or Sunday pm meetings! Also you will find more and more home churches are following suit.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 7:20:58 GMT -5
hmmmm i have heard of church building gatherers having weekly bible studies in the home but not a 2nd worship service outside their own church building...can you name the denom that does that? What is the difference between weekly bible studies and a worship service? I went to weekly bible studies (evening) at my local Baptist Church for a while. Apart from no hymns being sung, they were not far removed from Wednesday or Sunday pm meetings! Also you will find more and more home churches are following suit. did you take the emblems at your bible study? probably not its called a bible study for a reason and a worship service for a reason and gospel meetings for a reason ram...they perform different functions....
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Post by nathan on Sept 2, 2018 7:21:07 GMT -5
"Did Jesus speak in tongues?"
Does it say anywhere in the OT or OT?
When was the first time it ever mentioned in the bible about "speaking in tongues?"
Wasn't that after his death? Point was, Jesus by all accounts did not use the method of speaking in tongues, His life as many have stated is our example of how to do. You are correct, Speak. Jesus the creator of all things, beings in the Universe, he can speak any humans languages he wishes. He even speaks by telepathy to the animals/fish to obey Him, the wind and water to obey him, the sicknesses, cancers to come and go as he pleases. When Jesus was here on earth he spoke the humans language so the listeners could understand his message clearly. Jesus did NOT speak any Jiberrish unintelligent sounds, like many of Pentecostal believers do today!
Even the angels from heaven, have their own languages among themselves, but when they speak to deliver God's message to the humans with the languages they KNOW and UNDERSTAND so can follow the instructions or the message given from God. We don't read the angels speak in Jiberish/unrecognizable languages to the listeners so they can't understand what they are saying or the message from God.
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Post by nathan on Sept 2, 2018 7:21:35 GMT -5
ummm i believe that there is a little less facts being stated here and a whole lot of opinion..just sayin' I quoted in the past of Edward Cooney, where he stated the Truth and the Way is in Jesus and NOT the Workers or the fellowship is the Truth and the Way, but through the years people shorten it up to the Way and the Truth. 1) Edward Cooney wrote, " We (2x2 workers) did NOT start this Jesus Way. It was started and planned by God before we were thought of, and we are earnestly contending for the faith once delivered to the Saints and trying to separate it from the tradition of men. There was in the day, William Irvine, upon whose heart God's Spirit worked to raise him up like the judges of old, to lead back those in Christendom to the TRUTH as it is in Jesus." ( By Patricia Roberts book page 43-45)
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Post by nathan on Sept 2, 2018 7:33:06 GMT -5
hmmmm i have heard of church building gatherers having weekly bible studies in the home but not a 2nd worship service outside their own church building...can you name the denom that does that? What is the difference between weekly bible studies and a worship service? I went to weekly bible studies (evening) at my local Baptist Church for a while. Apart from no hymns being sung, they were not far removed from Wednesday or Sunday pm meetings! Also you will find more and more home churches are following suit. Weekly Bible studies, we/2x2 don't take the emblems, and the bread and wine are NOT in the room. Each week the 2x2s come to study a chapter together assigned to us, and each person in the room are free to share what they have learned. Sunday morning worship meetings, we gather to worship, praises, sing hymns to God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Give thanks, to God the Father and Jesus for his life, death/sacrifice for our sins, and the hope of the resurrection day when we receive the New resurrection bodies. The believers partake the bread and wine near at the end of the worship meetings.
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Post by nathan on Sept 2, 2018 7:46:07 GMT -5
Nathan, the Bible Colleges which most people go to are interdenominational. A few churches might have their own but I don't know any one who has been to one of them but I know plenty of people who have been to interdenominational ones. Yes, the inter-denominational Bible colleges try to stay neutral so they don't go against any denomination doctrines. However, if you were to attend the RCC, the Baptist, the Pentecostal and others Bible college denominations or Seminary they will TEACH people their own way of understanding of the Bible interpretation.
Like the Pentecostal seminary/Bible colleges will teach scriptures in the Bible, why they believe speaking in Jiberish/unrecognizable tounge/languages for today! The RCC teaches in apostolic succession, the Trinity/Triune God. The baptist teaches in once SAVED is always Saved, the predestination, Preserving of the Saints doctrines.
The same way with the 2x2.... they believe and teach young workers their own way of interpretation of the Scriptures by being with older co-workers, Jesus 2x2 apostolic/workers ministry, Sunday morning worship of God the Father, Christ and Holy Spirit in the homes of believers and having the emblems. No salary for the preachers, no collection, preachers do NOT have their own homes, and so on....
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Post by Grant on Sept 2, 2018 8:33:12 GMT -5
I quoted in the past of Edward Cooney, where he stated the Truth and the Way is in Jesus and NOT the Workers or the fellowship is the Truth and the Way, but through the years people shorten it up to the Way and the Truth. 1) Edward Cooney wrote, " We (2x2 workers) did NOT start this Jesus Way. It was started and planned by God before we were thought of, and we are earnestly contending for the faith once delivered to the Saints and trying to separate it from the tradition of men. There was in the day, William Irvine, upon whose heart God's Spirit worked to raise him up like the judges of old, to lead back those in Christendom to the TRUTH as it is in Jesus." ( By Patricia Roberts book page 43-45)
Edward Cooney can say what he wants but it doesn't make it true. The workers don't accept him and try to deny he was once one of them. We grew up hearing this denial.
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Post by nathan on Sept 2, 2018 9:38:16 GMT -5
Edward Cooney can say what he wants but it doesn't make it true. The workers don't accept him and try to deny he was once one of them. We grew up hearing this denial. It doesn't matter whether you and others believe what Edward Cooney said it or NOT. Edward Cooney was TELLING the TRUTH. Jesus is the Truth and Way NOT the workers or the friends, we KNOW they are NOT the TRUTH and Way but Jesus is. Jesus is God/Christ the Son and they are two kingdoms below Him. He is sinless and the workers are NOT.
The Workers and the friends are humans, they have weaknesses and make mistakes according to the 2x2 church history the last 118 yrs, so HOW can they be the TRUTH? How can their way be the WAY? when The 2x2 began around 1900s? There were men and women who had practiced, preached and taught Jesus 2x2 apostolic ministry and New Testament fellowship for 1800 yrs, that most of the workers and the friends DON'T even KNOW or HEARD of.
The workers and the friends believe they are the Truth and Way of Jesus that God has preserved on the earth today! and I agree with them 110% on that.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2018 10:27:24 GMT -5
What is the difference between weekly bible studies and a worship service? I went to weekly bible studies (evening) at my local Baptist Church for a while. Apart from no hymns being sung, they were not far removed from Wednesday or Sunday pm meetings! Also you will find more and more home churches are following suit. did you take the emblems at your bible study? probably not its called a bible study for a reason and a worship service for a reason and gospel meetings for a reason ram...they perform different functions.... Do you take the emblems at Sunday or Wednesday evening meetings? What did happen occasionally, but not as a matter of course, we all had a meal beforehand and the emblems were celebrated at that time (basically as a thanksgiving along with the meal etc). Actually, there are 7 or 8 house groups which are part of the church. Each has a degree of autonomy and the worshp/study format varies from group to group, but essentially having a similar pattern.
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Post by snow on Sept 2, 2018 13:05:38 GMT -5
But when you were a 2x2 you prayed in meetings and at convention etc. People pray in churches (public) all the time. Not what Jesus said. He said keep it private. If people did more of that and didn't think that their prayers should be allowed everywhere we'd have fewer clashes in this world. Christians don't want to me made to pray like a Muslim and Muslims don't want to pray like Christians. And Atheists don't want to listen to either group praying. But the matter is solved by Jesus. He said don't pray in public. Jesus said not to stand in public and pray such things as the man who prayed and was thankful he wasn't like the sinners wheras Jesus' comparison to a man who was afraid to lift his head and he prayed for Mercy because he was a sinner. I haven't stood on the street and prayed as either one of those men. I prayed where it shouldn't have been offensive to anyone because prayer was part of the religious service, such as conv and home mtgs. If there were people there that it offended, I'd opine they were in the wrong place not me. Jesus prayed. He prayed at the last Supper, and in the synagogues and temple, when he was participating. I also think he would say "I pray..." When he was speaking to or for someone. His objection was acainst speaking in bragging or such tones to indicate the prayerful one was lording it over others or better in God's sight. That verse doesn't just mention street corners it also mentions the synagogue. That is a church, temple, gathering of the flock. So how do you justify praying in meetings, churches and synagogues or conventions. Matthew 6:5-18 New International Version (NIV) Prayer 5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. He seems to be saying if you pray in public you are just doing so to be seen by others as praying. But Christians do it all the time and these verses definitely says don't do it.
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