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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2018 15:24:17 GMT -5
He wrote twice in fact. Writing on sand it wouldn't have been much, but it was sufficient to convict the accusers in a kangaroo court. Possibly reminding them of the things they had forgotten in judging a case such as Faith, good judgement and mercy, things that were obviously missing from the trial? Okay, but what did he write, two times. Snow my dear, it is not written whate he wrote. However it is written that he wrote (twice). What he wrote is a different question from the record that he wrote. What he wrote has not been written down and has been the subject of speculation in many writings ever since. I, even I, have added to the speculation in what I wrote in my prevous post. I have written what I think Jesus may have possibly wrote, but I may be wrong.
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Post by snow on Sept 3, 2018 15:32:53 GMT -5
Okay, but what did he write, two times. Snow my dear, it is not written whate he wrote. However it is written that he wrote (twice). What he wrote is a different question from the record that he wrote. What he wrote has not been written down and has been the subject of speculation in many writings ever since. I, even I, have added to the speculation in what I wrote in my prevous post. I have written what I think Jesus may have possibly wrote, but I may be wrong. Ah, okay. I see. That seemed to be a theme about Jesus. Lots of people saying what he said and even saying he wrote something. But nothing from the man himself. I've often wondered about that. There are lots of gospels, some made the bible and we discovered more when we found the books for the Nag Hammadi Library. But we still haven't found a book entitled "The Gospel of Jesus". Maybe we should start another thread. This is a bit off topic since it's about Bob's book.
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Post by nathan on Sept 3, 2018 15:54:46 GMT -5
Here is how God himself explained to Moses how his words would be spoken by Jesus. Deuteronomy 18.18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. It seems pretty clear to me that Jesus was a human being, just like Moses. This is based upon the testimony of the greatest witness this world has ever seen, ie the Lord God himself. Who would dare to make God a liar? ** The scriptures you shared is Christ/God, prophesied that He would incarnate in the Son of man/Jesus, like unto Moses as the Messiah/Deliever to the children of Israel.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 3, 2018 16:13:58 GMT -5
You may be right. I'm on record as advising no one how to live their lives. In the case of some workers and other community members...elders, your book could be regarded as a case study of how not to live or behave. Thanks for your contribution. True, and thanks. But I make the point that if anyone needs that kind of "shepherding", all I can tell them is what it may cost them. As for the workers and elders, I wrote from my own perspective of being used, abused, and disrespected. If they want to be like that, have at it. I just won't be there for them to "herd".
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Post by Lee on Sept 3, 2018 16:29:59 GMT -5
Ha! Herding cats, that's what we learned it was like to keep your commercial rafting clients safe and accountable in rafting school, especially on extended two day trips. I sympathize to a degree with the workers to keep their group squeaky clean, but I can't compliment their lack of grace when it shows. Because of you, they'll most likely improve as individuals and a group.
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 3, 2018 19:52:26 GMT -5
Do you think that is what "god" did to William Irvine?
That "god" inspired Wm. Irvine to say or write something ? Sure. As with the rest of us, he was an imperfect filter, prophet, or interpreter of God, or of a nature we should aspire to. The workers who ousted him were worse, denying his role in their history in order to promote the new 'them'. You don't conflate facts and myth (a story relating eternal truths) without repercussions in the modern, polity and governance-saving world. Do you know why the other workers "ousted" Wm. Irvine?
Seems that Irvine thought he would be one of the witnesses spoken of in Rev.
Revelation 11:11
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
That is understood to be why Irvine lived the rest of his life in Jerusalem.
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 3, 2018 19:57:08 GMT -5
Snow my dear, it is not written whate he wrote. However it is written that he wrote (twice). What he wrote is a different question from the record that he wrote. What he wrote has not been written down and has been the subject of speculation in many writings ever since. I, even I, have added to the speculation in what I wrote in my prevous post. I have written what I think Jesus may have possibly wrote, but I may be wrong. Ah, okay. I see. That seemed to be a theme about Jesus. Lots of people saying what he said and even saying he wrote something. But nothing from the man himself. I've often wondered about that. There are lots of gospels, some made the bible and we discovered more when we found the books for the Nag Hammadi Library. But we still haven't found a book entitled "The Gospel of Jesus". Maybe we should start another thread. This is a bit off topic since it's about Bob's book. I see that "Ram," -that dear boy, -hasn't shed his sexist rhetoric yet. Guess it is true that it is hard to teach an old dog anything new.
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Post by nathan on Sept 3, 2018 20:30:58 GMT -5
Ah, okay. I see. That seemed to be a theme about Jesus. Lots of people saying what he said and even saying he wrote something. But nothing from the man himself. I've often wondered about that. There are lots of gospels, some made the bible and we discovered more when we found the books for the Nag Hammadi Library. But we still haven't found a book entitled "The Gospel of Jesus". Maybe we should start another thread. This is a bit off topic since it's about Bob's book. I see that "Ram," -that dear boy, -hasn't shed his sexist rhetoric yet. Guess it is true that it is hard to teach an old dog anything new. Don't forget, that Ram has quite an imagination, also.
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Post by Lee on Sept 3, 2018 21:25:05 GMT -5
Sure. As with the rest of us, he was an imperfect filter, prophet, or interpreter of God, or of a nature we should aspire to. The workers who ousted him were worse, denying his role in their history in order to promote the new 'them'. You don't conflate facts and myth (a story relating eternal truths) without repercussions in the modern, polity and governance-saving world. Do you know why the other workers "ousted" Wm. Irvine?
Seems that Irvine thought he would be one of the witnesses spoken of in Rev.
Revelation 11:11
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
That is understood to be why Irvine lived the rest of his life in Jerusalem.
Is that how it went, chronologically, or did he acquire that idea after he was ousted? Reviewing Bob's book presently, it was the living witness doctrine that "elevated Irvine to an all and all position". That would have put a lot of pressure on Irvine. Naturally the LWD would place the movement into conflict over how to interpret itself. If it started with Irvine it couldn't have come in a worker succession from the apostles. Their solution? Bury Irvine...alive.
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 3, 2018 22:07:47 GMT -5
I see that "Ram," -that dear boy, -hasn't shed his sexist rhetoric yet. Guess it is true that it is hard to teach an old dog anything new. Don't forget, that Ram has quite an imagination, also. What has "sexism" got to do with "imagination," Nathan?
Kind of hard for anyone to match your own "imagination," -Nathan!
I don't believe any of us would be able to do that!
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 3, 2018 22:10:21 GMT -5
Do you know why the other workers "ousted" Wm. Irvine?
Seems that Irvine thought he would be one of the witnesses spoken of in Rev.
Revelation 11:11
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
That is understood to be why Irvine lived the rest of his life in Jerusalem.
Is that how it went, chronologically, or did he acquire that idea after he was ousted? Reviewing Bob's book presently, it was the living witness doctrine that "elevated Irvine to an all and all position". That would have put a lot of pressure on Irvine. Naturally the LWD would place the movement into conflict over how to interpret itself. If it started with Irvine it couldn't have come in a worker succession from the apostles. Their solution? Bury Irvine...alive. You are right. Who knows which came first; -the chicken or the egg?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 3:06:31 GMT -5
Here is how God himself explained to Moses how his words would be spoken by Jesus. Deuteronomy 18.18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. It seems pretty clear to me that Jesus was a human being, just like Moses. This is based upon the testimony of the greatest witness this world has ever seen, ie the Lord God himself. Who would dare to make God a liar? ** The scriptures you shared is Christ/God, prophesied that He would incarnate in the Son of man/Jesus, like unto Moses as the Messiah/Deliever to the children of Israel.
Nathan my dear friend....you certainly know how to s-----t------r------e----t-----c------h out the the scriptures. Now go back over Deuteronomy 18.18 and show me one word of what God himself promised that supports what you imagine it to say. Show me one reference anywhere from the Bible where God himself clearly testifies that he himself, or any part of him, or any other spiritual being would literally come down from Heaven to be the Jewish human being Messiah. God clearly promised that he would raise up a human being just like Moses. Moses wasn't God, was he?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 4:15:23 GMT -5
** The scriptures you shared is Christ/God, prophesied that He would incarnate in the Son of man/Jesus, like unto Moses as the Messiah/Deliever to the children of Israel.
Nathan my dear friend....you certainly know how to s-----t------r------e----t-----c------h out the the scriptures. Now go back over Deuteronomy 18.18 and show me one word of what God himself promised that supports what you imagine it to say. Show me one reference anywhere from the Bible where God himself clearly testifies that he himself, or any part of him, or any other spiritual being would literally come down from Heaven to be the Jewish human being Messiah. God clearly promised that he would raise up a human being just like Moses. Moses wasn't God, was he? Joh 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. it will be interesting to see how you twist those verses...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 4:30:28 GMT -5
Nathan my dear friend....you certainly know how to s-----t------r------e----t-----c------h out the the scriptures. Now go back over Deuteronomy 18.18 and show me one word of what God himself promised that supports what you imagine it to say. Show me one reference anywhere from the Bible where God himself clearly testifies that he himself, or any part of him, or any other spiritual being would literally come down from Heaven to be the Jewish human being Messiah. God clearly promised that he would raise up a human being just like Moses. Moses wasn't God, was he? Joh 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. Walls, I was asking for where God said that 'he' himself would come down. Jesus is not God. He is the human being son of God. When Jesus said that 'I came down from Heaven,' we know that he did not literally mean this because he was born of human flesh, like us all. Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit and had the indwelling Spirit of God from birth. He was born with the Spirit of God controlling his life. We, however, are not born naturally with the Spirit of God. This is why we must be born again from above. We are no longer of this world. It is the life in Jesus, the controlling factor which came down from Heaven. Jesus told the Pharisees that he was from above (Heaven) and that they were from below (Hell). He was not speakng literally, but pointing out that he was from God and they were of the devil. It's one or the other. What Jesus said of himself is true of every born again believer. They are not of this world. The new life in them has come down from Heaven. John 17. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
(Jesus is saying his followers are not of this world in the same way he is not of ths world) 17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. (Jesus sent his followers into the world in the same way that God his Father sent him into the world) 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 4:37:53 GMT -5
Joh 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. Walls, I was asking for where God said that 'he' himself would come down. Jesus is not God. He is the human being son of God. When Jesus said that 'I came down from Heaven,' we know that he did not literally mean this because he was born of human flesh, like us all. Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit and had the indwelling Spirit of God from birth. He was born with the Spirit of God controlling his life. We, however, are not born naturally with the Spirit of God. This is why we must be born again from above. We are no longer of this world. It is the life in Jesus, the controlling factor which came down from Heaven. Jesus told the Pharisees that he was from above (Heaven) and that they were from below (Hell). He was not speakng literally, but pointing out that he was from God and they were of the devil. It's one or the other. What Jesus said of himself is true of every born again believer. They are not of this world. The new life in them has come down from Heaven. John 17. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
(Jesus is saying his followers are not of this world in the same way he is not of ths world) 17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. (Jesus sent his followers into the world in the same way that God his Father sent him into the world) 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: nice twist to your request...you are entertaining... did you not say this? "or any other spiritual being would literally come down from Heaven to be the Jewish human being Messiah?"
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 4:38:47 GMT -5
Nathan my dear friend....you certainly know how to s-----t------r------e----t-----c------h out the the scriptures. Now go back over Deuteronomy 18.18 and show me one word of what God himself promised that supports what you imagine it to say. Show me one reference anywhere from the Bible where God himself clearly testifies that he himself, or any part of him, or any other spiritual being would literally come down from Heaven to be the Jewish human being Messiah. God clearly promised that he would raise up a human being just like Moses. Moses wasn't God, was he? Joh 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. it will be interesting to see how you twist those verses... Walls, you added to your post as I was addressing your first one. When you accuse one of twisting, just remember it is you who holds the knife! I have addressed John 6.38 which is Jesus's words whlst he was on the Earth. In John 3.13 John is speakng of the risen Christ who is now in Heaven. My previous post explains how Jesus came down from Heaven, ie the life in him. The term 'son of man 'always' refers to a human being only, NOT God, or any part of God. John is pointing out that the human being Jesus, whose life came down from Heaven, is now in Heaven (a human being).
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 4:42:28 GMT -5
Joh 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. it will be interesting to see how you twist those verses... Walls, you added to your post as I was addressing your first one. When you accuse one of twisting, just remember it is you who holds the knife! I have addressed John 6.38 which is Jesus's words whlst he was on the Earth. In John 3.13 John is speakng of the risen Christ who is now in Heaven. My previous post explains how Jesus came down from Heaven, ie the life in him. The term 'son of man 'always' refers to a human being only, NOT God, or any part of God. John is pointing out that the human being Jesus, whose life came down from Heaven, is now in Heaven (a human being). nice try you don't disappoint for sure....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 4:43:29 GMT -5
Walls, I was asking for where God said that 'he' himself would come down. Jesus is not God. He is the human being son of God. When Jesus said that 'I came down from Heaven,' we know that he did not literally mean this because he was born of human flesh, like us all. Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit and had the indwelling Spirit of God from birth. He was born with the Spirit of God controlling his life. We, however, are not born naturally with the Spirit of God. This is why we must be born again from above. We are no longer of this world. It is the life in Jesus, the controlling factor which came down from Heaven. Jesus told the Pharisees that he was from above (Heaven) and that they were from below (Hell). He was not speakng literally, but pointing out that he was from God and they were of the devil. It's one or the other. What Jesus said of himself is true of every born again believer. They are not of this world. The new life in them has come down from Heaven. John 17. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
(Jesus is saying his followers are not of this world in the same way he is not of ths world) 17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth. 18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. (Jesus sent his followers into the world in the same way that God his Father sent him into the world) 19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth. 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. 22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: nice twist to your request...you are entertaining... did you not say this? "or any other spiritual being would literally come down from Heaven to be the Jewish human being Messiah?"That is correct. No pre-existant spiritual being came down to be the human being Messiah. The Messiah was 100% human, just like Moses or you and I. God put his Spirit into the human being Jesus just as he seeks to do with you and I, to control our lives through obedience. Do we believe God when he promised Moses what he would do, or do we add man's imagination to it?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 4:45:06 GMT -5
Walls, you added to your post as I was addressing your first one. When you accuse one of twisting, just remember it is you who holds the knife! I have addressed John 6.38 which is Jesus's words whlst he was on the Earth. In John 3.13 John is speakng of the risen Christ who is now in Heaven. My previous post explains how Jesus came down from Heaven, ie the life in him. The term 'son of man 'always' refers to a human being only, NOT God, or any part of God. John is pointing out that the human being Jesus, whose life came down from Heaven, is now in Heaven (a human being). nice try you don't disappoint for sure.... Thanks. Nice to see it has given you something to think about. Please put the knife away and think about things.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 4:47:14 GMT -5
nice twist to your request...you are entertaining... did you not say this? "or any other spiritual being would literally come down from Heaven to be the Jewish human being Messiah?"That is correct. No pre-existant spiritual being came down to be the human being Messiah. The Messiah was 100% human, just like Moses or you and I. God put his Spirit into the humanm being Jesus just as he seeks to do with you and I, to control our lives through obedience. i just showed you that he himself said he came down from heaven "any other spiritual being" was your request....nice try again curly
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 4:52:59 GMT -5
That is correct. No pre-existant spiritual being came down to be the human being Messiah. The Messiah was 100% human, just like Moses or you and I. God put his Spirit into the humanm being Jesus just as he seeks to do with you and I, to control our lives through obedience. i just showed you that he himself said he came down from heaven "any other spiritual being" was your request....nice try again curly Perhaps I am not exlaining myself properly. I did use the word pre-existing did I not? The Spirit of God controlled the human being Jesus in exactly the way God hopes it will control you. The Spirit of God did NOT itself become Jesus, but rather filled and controlled this human being through his 100% obedience. Today, Jesus who has received his inheritance of the Holy Spirit,sends this to us.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 4:56:19 GMT -5
This is what I said/requested.
Show me one reference anywhere from the Bible where God himself clearly testifies that he himself, or any part of him, or any other spiritual being would literally come down from Heaven to be the Jewish human being Messiah. God clearly promised that he would raise up a human being just like Moses. Moses wasn't God, was he?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 4:58:35 GMT -5
i just showed you that he himself said he came down from heaven "any other spiritual being" was your request....nice try again curly Perhaps I am not exlaining myself properly. I did use the word pre-existing did I not? The Spirit of God controlled the human being Jesus in exactly the way God hopes it will control you. The Spirit of God did NOT itself become Jesus, but rather filled and controlled this human being through his 100% obedience. Today, Jesus who has received his inheritance of the Holy Spirit,sends this to us. your changing your request again from the OP that YOU made, typical tactic when you have egg on your face. not buying it you'll have to try and fool someone else...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 5:02:39 GMT -5
This is what I said/requested. Show me one reference anywhere from the Bible where God himself clearly testifies that he himself, or any part of him, or any other spiritual being would literally come down from Heaven to be the Jewish human being Messiah. God clearly promised that he would raise up a human being just like Moses. Moses wasn't God, was he? i guess you don't even understand your own post...you made 3 different requests in that post i address one completely and utterly with scripture...Just because your rejecting it with fluff is neither here nor there....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 5:03:22 GMT -5
Perhaps I am not exlaining myself properly. I did use the word pre-existing did I not? The Spirit of God controlled the human being Jesus in exactly the way God hopes it will control you. The Spirit of God did NOT itself become Jesus, but rather filled and controlled this human being through his 100% obedience. Today, Jesus who has received his inheritance of the Holy Spirit,sends this to us. your changing your request again from the OP that YOU made, typical tactic when you have egg on your face. not buying it you'll have to try and fool someone else... Wally, please show me where I have changed my request. It became clear to me that you didn't properly understand my original post. I reposted exactly what I asked originally to keep the focus right. Your diversionary personal attacks betray a pride that is sharper than your knife. Sorry.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 5:05:09 GMT -5
This is what I said/requested. Show me one reference anywhere from the Bible where God himself clearly testifies that he himself, or any part of him, or any other spiritual being would literally come down from Heaven to be the Jewish human being Messiah. God clearly promised that he would raise up a human being just like Moses. Moses wasn't God, was he? i guess you don't even understand your own post...you made 3 different requests in that post i address one completely and utterly with scripture...Just because your rejecting it with fluff is neither here nor there.... I answered your post with my understanding. You are the one who did the rejecting. The manner in which you posted it (go read over it) betrays your heart.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 5:06:59 GMT -5
your changing your request again from the OP that YOU made, typical tactic when you have egg on your face. not buying it you'll have to try and fool someone else... Wally, please show me where I have changed my request. It became clear to me that you didn't properly understand my original post. I reposted exactly what I asked originally to keep the focus right. Your diversionary personal attacks betray a pride that is sharper than your knife. Sorry. you added pre-existing to the mix in an effort to throw me off...wont work however....it might work on a grade schooler though....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 5:11:18 GMT -5
Wally, please show me where I have changed my request. It became clear to me that you didn't properly understand my original post. I reposted exactly what I asked originally to keep the focus right. Your diversionary personal attacks betray a pride that is sharper than your knife. Sorry. you added pre-existing to the mix in an effort to throw me off...wont work however....it might work on a grade schooler though.... Wally, if you are wishing to engage in dialogue with me, please do it properly with a good spirit. If you read my PM properly (take all the time you need) you will see 'pre-existence' very much part of it. Here agan is what I said 'originally'. Show me one reference anywhere from the Bible where God himself clearly testifies that he himself, or any part of him, or any other spiritual being would literally come down from Heaven to be the Jewish human being Messiah. God clearly promised that he would raise up a human being just like Moses. Moses wasn't God, was he?And you cannot see 'pre-exstence' in the above?
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