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Post by emy on May 31, 2018 23:29:21 GMT -5
We're talking about a period of less than 120 years. Lots of us knew people who were around at the beginning. Why did they stay silent when they heard the story change? And why did they continue their whole lives to stay silent? Maybe because the "truth" of it is not as it is now portrayed?
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Post by Roselyn T on May 31, 2018 23:34:41 GMT -5
We're talking about a period of less than 120 years. Lots of us knew people who were around at the beginning. Why did they stay silent when they heard the story change? And why did they continue their whole lives to stay silent? Maybe because the "truth" of it is not as it is now portrayed? There is plenty to support the fact that there were a lot of "lies" told.
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Post by snow on Jun 1, 2018 13:26:15 GMT -5
You ask an interesting question, withlove.
For those that knew or even learned about it later, - WHY was it not openly discussed so that everyone knew it? What was there about it that caused everyone to not talk about it?
I am sure that my father probably went into the work not knowing. I know that other workers did so.
Yet he must have found out somewhere along the line because that is how I always knew. It was because I heard he & my mother talking. How much learning it factored into his leaving the work, - I don't know.
But there had to be some reason that the "truth" about the *TRUTH* was shuttered and NOT discussed openly. No matter how some people try to say now that it was the people who just "assumed" something, -that is a blatant cop out!
Exactly. Exactly. And even now, it is not openly discussed anywhere I've been. I shared the history with a few before I left. They hadn't heard it before and were shocked. And upset with me for telling them. Which was incredible to watch. Everyone who knows has a responsibility to tell. The posters here who think people who don't know have made an assumption rather than be duped...why haven't you explained to them? Do you enjoy feeling superior to your brothers and sisters? Yes that's exactly why I never told my parents that were in their 90's and had professed all their lives. The hidden facts about the beginnings must have been done fairly early on because my grandfather professed around 1915 and he never knew. If he did he never told my father because I heard how come the Truth was the only true way was because it wasn't a denomination that started with men but went back to the shores of Galilee. So they didn't talk about it quite quickly after their organization got together. The workers then had to have known about how it all started. They spent a winter on my grandfather's ranch when he first professed. You'd think they would have shared that with him in 1915. But it doesn't appear that they did. Why? Why was it such a no no to talk about I wonder? No one would have been upset by knowing when it was started and/or why?
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Post by snow on Jun 1, 2018 13:30:18 GMT -5
We're talking about a period of less than 120 years. Lots of us knew people who were around at the beginning. Why did they stay silent when they heard the story change? And why did they continue their whole lives to stay silent? Maybe because the "truth" of it is not as it is now portrayed? What do you mean Emy? I know my parents didn't know how it all began and they should have being some of the first that joined. I don't understand why it was kept a secret? I know it was the deciding factor for my parents that made them think they were in the only true way, was because it wasn't started by men recently. That it went right back to Jesus. By that I know they didn't mean the teachings of Jesus, but an unbroken line of workers from Jesus to now. I never told them about William Irvine. I felt it would have been cruel to do so. So I really would like to know what you mean.
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Post by emy on Jun 1, 2018 14:14:26 GMT -5
Maybe because the "truth" of it is not as it is now portrayed? What do you mean Emy? I know my parents didn't know how it all began and they should have being some of the first that joined. I don't understand why it was kept a secret? I know it was the deciding factor for my parents that made them think they were in the only true way, was because it wasn't started by men recently. That it went right back to Jesus. By that I know they didn't mean the teachings of Jesus, but an unbroken line of workers from Jesus to now. I never told them about William Irvine. I felt it would have been cruel to do so. So I really would like to know what you mean. I have no particular knowledge of how those men in Ireland or other places began. The normal human nature way to progress would have been with ongoing accounts of what happened. Since that seems to not be the case, maybe it evolved differently than many think. Maybe there is an unknown link, not necessarily to "old" workers, but just someone who was living the way they knew from the Bible. Maybe the unknown name of WI and others who went a different direction was not a lie or coverup, but just avoiding the thing Paul wrote of in 1 Cor. 3. 4 When one of you says, “I am a follower of Paul,” and another says, “I follow Apollos,” aren’t you acting just like people of the world? 5 After all, who is Apollos? Who is Paul? We are only God’s servants through whom you believed the Good News. Each of us did the work the Lord gave us. 6 I planted the seed in your hearts, and Apollos watered it, but it was God who made it grow.
Just 'maybes,' no unshakeable belief.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jun 1, 2018 15:54:31 GMT -5
What do you mean Emy? I know my parents didn't know how it all began and they should have being some of the first that joined. I don't understand why it was kept a secret? I know it was the deciding factor for my parents that made them think they were in the only true way, was because it wasn't started by men recently. That it went right back to Jesus. By that I know they didn't mean the teachings of Jesus, but an unbroken line of workers from Jesus to now. I never told them about William Irvine. I felt it would have been cruel to do so. So I really would like to know what you mean. I have no particular knowledge of how those men in Ireland or other places began. The normal human nature way to progress would have been with ongoing accounts of what happened. Since that seems to not be the case, maybe it evolved differently than many think. Maybe there is an unknown link, not necessarily to "old" workers, but just someone who was living the way they knew from the Bible. Maybe the unknown name of WI and others who went a different direction was not a lie or coverup, but just avoiding the thing Paul wrote of in 1 Cor. 3. 4 When one of you says, “I am a follower of Paul,” and another says, “I follow Apollos,” aren’t you acting just like people of the world? 5 After all, who is Apollos? Who is Paul? We are only God’s servants through whom you believed the Good News. Each of us did the work the Lord gave us. 6 I planted the seed in your hearts, and Apollos watered it, but it was God who made it grow.
Just 'maybes,' no unshakeable belief. I think that you are right, Emy, in that it should have been a normal way to progress with ongoing accounts of what happened. Then everyone would just have naturally know about the beginning.
However, that wasn't done! For what reason? I think I may know one.
But it wasn't because "WI and others who went a different direction."
It isn't true that we don't have "particular knowledge of how those men in Ireland or other places began!" We have a lot of knowledge NOW.
Thanks to Cherie has been a careful and thorough historian. She has documented the history very well with facts to back it up.
Also Doug & Helen Parker's work verifies a lot of the history.
There is just a lot of people just don't want to except it.
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Post by snow on Jun 2, 2018 11:40:36 GMT -5
What do you mean Emy? I know my parents didn't know how it all began and they should have being some of the first that joined. I don't understand why it was kept a secret? I know it was the deciding factor for my parents that made them think they were in the only true way, was because it wasn't started by men recently. That it went right back to Jesus. By that I know they didn't mean the teachings of Jesus, but an unbroken line of workers from Jesus to now. I never told them about William Irvine. I felt it would have been cruel to do so. So I really would like to know what you mean. I have no particular knowledge of how those men in Ireland or other places began. The normal human nature way to progress would have been with ongoing accounts of what happened. Since that seems to not be the case, maybe it evolved differently than many think. Maybe there is an unknown link, not necessarily to "old" workers, but just someone who was living the way they knew from the Bible. Maybe the unknown name of WI and others who went a different direction was not a lie or coverup, but just avoiding the thing Paul wrote of in 1 Cor. 3. 4 When one of you says, “I am a follower of Paul,” and another says, “I follow Apollos,” aren’t you acting just like people of the world? 5 After all, who is Apollos? Who is Paul? We are only God’s servants through whom you believed the Good News. Each of us did the work the Lord gave us. 6 I planted the seed in your hearts, and Apollos watered it, but it was God who made it grow.
Just 'maybes,' no unshakeable belief. Thanks Emy. Yes I suppose it could have been that way. But if it was I think we would still have known about William Irvine and the story behind it all, just like we know of Paul and the story behind him. Just because it's important not to follow the 'messenger', it doesn't mean that we don't know about the messenger. Just a thought.
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Post by Gene on Jun 2, 2018 20:04:45 GMT -5
Exactly. Exactly. And even now, it is not openly discussed anywhere I've been. I shared the history with a few before I left. They hadn't heard it before and were shocked. And upset with me for telling them. Which was incredible to watch. Everyone who knows has a responsibility to tell. The posters here who think people who don't know have made an assumption rather than be duped...why haven't you explained to them? Do you enjoy feeling superior to your brothers and sisters? Yes that's exactly why I never told my parents that were in their 90's and had professed all their lives. The hidden facts about the beginnings must have been done fairly early on because my grandfather professed around 1915 and he never knew. If he did he never told my father because I heard how come the Truth was the only true way was because it wasn't a denomination that started with men but went back to the shores of Galilee. So they didn't talk about it quite quickly after their organization got together. The workers then had to have known about how it all started. They spent a winter on my grandfather's ranch when he first professed. You'd think they would have shared that with him in 1915. But it doesn't appear that they did. Why? Why was it such a no no to talk about I wonder? No one would have been upset by knowing when it was started and/or why? It might be good to bear in mind that the F&W in the early 1900s were in competition with other start-up religions as well as the Christian establishment. Their claim to "the shores of Galilee" could well have been intended to set them apart from the other start-ups, not to mention the established Christian denominations.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2018 13:50:37 GMT -5
Yes that's exactly why I never told my parents that were in their 90's and had professed all their lives. The hidden facts about the beginnings must have been done fairly early on because my grandfather professed around 1915 and he never knew. If he did he never told my father because I heard how come the Truth was the only true way was because it wasn't a denomination that started with men but went back to the shores of Galilee. So they didn't talk about it quite quickly after their organization got together. The workers then had to have known about how it all started. They spent a winter on my grandfather's ranch when he first professed. You'd think they would have shared that with him in 1915. But it doesn't appear that they did. Why? Why was it such a no no to talk about I wonder? No one would have been upset by knowing when it was started and/or why? It might be good to bear in mind that the F&W in the early 1900s were in competition with other start-up religions as well as the Christian establishment. Their claim to "the shores of Galilee" could well have been intended to set them apart from the other start-ups, not to mention the established Christian denominations. My understanding is that the ‘shores of Galilee’ claims came later and weren’t part of the very early preaching. My understanding is that the ‘shores of Galilee’ claims were developed later as a useful/clever means of covering up (what later came to be seen as) the embarrassing antics of the early days and playing down (eventually erasing) the key roles played by Irvine and (later) Cooney in the foundation of the sect once their association with these two men became a source of irritation/awkwardness/inconvenience. This would likely have been during the inter war years and would have neatly coincided with the sect going underground and evolving into what we would recognise as the 2x2s. Of course the convenient spin off was that the group was then able to provide another, perhaps more solid, basis for its belief/claims that it was the only true church - many will be aware that the basis for its claims of ‘special status’ in the very early days was solely that it was ‘the Jesus Way’ and that the clergy were doomed for their unwillingness to follow the ‘Jesus Way’. These two principles - the church in the home, the ministry without a home (formerly the Jesus Way) and the only church not started by man (the shores of Galilee lark) - became the twin pillars of its later doctrine. Of course i could be wrong on this and stand to be corrected by those with a better grasp of 2x2 history. Matt10
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Post by snow on Jun 3, 2018 15:03:24 GMT -5
Yes that's exactly why I never told my parents that were in their 90's and had professed all their lives. The hidden facts about the beginnings must have been done fairly early on because my grandfather professed around 1915 and he never knew. If he did he never told my father because I heard how come the Truth was the only true way was because it wasn't a denomination that started with men but went back to the shores of Galilee. So they didn't talk about it quite quickly after their organization got together. The workers then had to have known about how it all started. They spent a winter on my grandfather's ranch when he first professed. You'd think they would have shared that with him in 1915. But it doesn't appear that they did. Why? Why was it such a no no to talk about I wonder? No one would have been upset by knowing when it was started and/or why? It might be good to bear in mind that the F&W in the early 1900s were in competition with other start-up religions as well as the Christian establishment. Their claim to "the shores of Galilee" could well have been intended to set them apart from the other start-ups, not to mention the established Christian denominations. That's probably very true. The JW's were new at the time and from what I've heard Irvine knew and discussed things with their founder Charles Russell.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jun 23, 2018 1:01:44 GMT -5
Yes my parents, grandparents and great grandparents were professing. They spoke frequently about the early worker coming out from the other churches - about the beginning of the way. They were under no illusions as to when and how it started. You are quite happy to call people liars but when I call others dumb you get right off your bike. As I said to Matt 10 - I am an observer in all this, but I will defend anyone that I think is been unfairly slaughtered - whatever their belief, and from what I heard for quite a few years I don't believe people were lied to. I think many, like you, heard something and assumed the rest. In your opinion the workers were liars, in my opinion those that thought it was an unbroken line of workers from the beginning didn't think things through. (There is nothing in history that can be traced with an unbroken line back 2000 years) No more to be said really. I have a reason to call someone a liar when we were deceived as we were. But you calling us "dumb" because we accepted what were told is condescending and full of hubris!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2018 23:20:57 GMT -5
Yes my parents, grandparents and great grandparents were professing. They spoke frequently about the early worker coming out from the other churches - about the beginning of the way. They were under no illusions as to when and how it started. You are quite happy to call people liars but when I call others dumb you get right off your bike. As I said to Matt 10 - I am an observer in all this, but I will defend anyone that I think is been unfairly slaughtered - whatever their belief, and from what I heard for quite a few years I don't believe people were lied to. I think many, like you, heard something and assumed the rest. In your opinion the workers were liars, in my opinion those that thought it was an unbroken line of workers from the beginning didn't think things through. (There is nothing in history that can be traced with an unbroken line back 2000 years) No more to be said really. I have a reason to call someone a liar when we were deceived as we were. But you calling us "dumb" because we accepted what were told is condescending and full of hubris!In fairness, I do feel dumb for believing the workers about the whole "one true way" and "true sent ministry". I feel dumb that when I heard that someone "lost out", I didn't realize that just meant that they had stopped going to meetings, and were perhaps Christian brethren in another church. I feel dumb for hearing it prayed time and time again, "We're thankful for your truth and way" and then later "We're thankful for Jesus" in the same prayer, and not realizing that those were redundant statements. What a dumb fool I was. I feel dumb for hearing constantly about "false churches" and "false preachers" and never about "fellow Christians in other churches", and thinking for some insane reason that that meant ALL others but us were false. I was dumb, wasn't I? I am being slightly sarcastic, but in reality, yes - I DO feel dumb for believing it. However, after hearing the exact same things from people both on and off of tmb who have left, over and over and over, I start to wonder if maybe, just maybe......... we're not the dumb ones after all.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2018 23:35:47 GMT -5
I have a reason to call someone a liar when we were deceived as we were. But you calling us "dumb" because we accepted what were told is condescending and full of hubris! In fairness, I do feel dumb for believing the workers about the whole "one true way" and "true sent ministry". I feel dumb that when I heard that someone "lost out", I didn't realize that just meant that they had stopped going to meetings, and were perhaps Christian brethren in another church. I feel dumb for hearing it prayed time and time again, "We're thankful for your truth and way" and then later "We're thankful for Jesus" in the same prayer, and not realizing that those were redundant statements. What a dumb fool I was. I feel dumb for hearing constantly about "false churches" and "false preachers" and never about "fellow Christians in other churches", and thinking for some insane reason that that meant ALL others but us were false. I was dumb, wasn't I? I am being slightly sarcastic, but in reality, yes - I DO feel dumb for believing it. However, after hearing the exact same things from people both on and off of tmb who have left, over and over and over, I start to wonder if maybe, just maybe......... we're not the dumb ones after all. only time will tell...
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Post by snow on Jun 30, 2018 10:45:57 GMT -5
I have a reason to call someone a liar when we were deceived as we were. But you calling us "dumb" because we accepted what were told is condescending and full of hubris! In fairness, I do feel dumb for believing the workers about the whole "one true way" and "true sent ministry". I feel dumb that when I heard that someone "lost out", I didn't realize that just meant that they had stopped going to meetings, and were perhaps Christian brethren in another church. I feel dumb for hearing it prayed time and time again, "We're thankful for your truth and way" and then later "We're thankful for Jesus" in the same prayer, and not realizing that those were redundant statements. What a dumb fool I was. I feel dumb for hearing constantly about "false churches" and "false preachers" and never about "fellow Christians in other churches", and thinking for some insane reason that that meant ALL others but us were false. I was dumb, wasn't I? I am being slightly sarcastic, but in reality, yes - I DO feel dumb for believing it. However, after hearing the exact same things from people both on and off of tmb who have left, over and over and over, I start to wonder if maybe, just maybe......... we're not the dumb ones after all. It's not a failing to try and believe what our parents told us was true. But feeling dumb is one of the biggest things I get from new atheists that I mentor. Anger and the feeling of being dumb. So often is what they tell me. I don't see it as being dumb. I also don't see it as a waste of their life like some feel. Everything that happens to us, everything that we know is important imo. Nothing is all good and all bad. I learned a great deal of good things from my upbringing although there were some things that really weren't good. I am who I am today, stronger, more understanding about things I might not have understood if I hadn't had the background I do. Life is a journey. We learn and grow. Where you are right now, I was at many years ago and I have to tell you, I'm not that anymore either. We change so much as we get older. I sometimes have a hard time recognizing the person I was back then when I compare it to who I am now. Just enjoy the journey and don't worry too much about the past. It is what it is.
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Post by nathan on Jun 30, 2018 16:50:55 GMT -5
In fairness, I do feel dumb for believing the workers about the whole "one true way" and "true sent ministry". I feel dumb that when I heard that someone "lost out", I didn't realize that just meant that they had stopped going to meetings, and were perhaps Christian brethren in another church. I feel dumb for hearing it prayed time and time again, "We're thankful for your truth and way" and then later "We're thankful for Jesus" in the same prayer, and not realizing that those were redundant statements. What a dumb fool I was. I feel dumb for hearing constantly about "false churches" and "false preachers" and never about "fellow Christians in other churches", and thinking for some insane reason that that meant ALL others but us were false. I was dumb, wasn't I? I am being slightly sarcastic, but in reality, yes - I DO feel dumb for believing it. However, after hearing the exact same things from people both on and off of tmb who have left, over and over and over, I start to wonder if maybe, just maybe......... we're not the dumb ones after all. only time will tell... Yes, time will tell who are lying.... I put my money with the early workers preaching/teaching Jesus Christ is the Way and the Truth.... the 2x2 apostolic New Testament and worship/fellowship in the homes of believers are for all ages and NOT just in the days of the 1st century apostles and followers.After death and when Jesus returns to earth to reign 1000 yrs, the angels of God will separate the chaff from the wheat, the sheep from the goats, good fish from bad fish, the 5 wise from the 5 foolish virgins.....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2018 19:28:34 GMT -5
Yes, time will tell who are lying.... I put my money with the early workers preaching/teaching Jesus Christ is the Way and the Truth.... the 2x2 apostolic New Testament and worship/fellowship in the homes of believers are for all ages and NOT just in the days of the 1st century apostles and followers.After death and when Jesus returns to earth to reign 1000 yrs, the angels of God will separate the chaff from the wheat, the sheep from the goats, good fish from bad fish, the 5 wise from the 5 foolish virgins..... I put my money with no man.
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Post by nathan on Jun 30, 2018 19:35:58 GMT -5
Yes, time will tell who are lying.... I put my money with the early workers preaching/teaching Jesus Christ is the Way and the Truth.... the 2x2 apostolic New Testament and worship/fellowship in the homes of believers are for all ages and NOT just in the days of the 1st century apostles and followers.After death and when Jesus returns to earth to reign 1000 yrs, the angels of God will separate the chaff from the wheat, the sheep from the goats, good fish from bad fish, the 5 wise from the 5 foolish virgins..... I put my money with no man. Millions lives put money or their Salvation with the man name Jesus as their Savior. Many millions put their lives in the man name Peter, Paul, and John... Etc.... You better do the same if you want eternal life. Life begets life. God revealed from Faith to Faith.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jun 30, 2018 19:43:34 GMT -5
I put my money with no man. Millions lives put money or their Salvation with the man name Jesus as their Savior. Many millions put their lives in the man name Peter, Paul, and John... Etc.... You better do the same if you want eternal life. Life begets life. God revealed from Faith to Faith.
Multitudes of people believing that something is true does not make it true.
That is a fallacy.
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Post by nathan on Jun 30, 2018 19:48:46 GMT -5
Millions lives put money or their Salvation with the man name Jesus as their Savior. Many millions put their lives in the man name Peter, Paul, and John... Etc.... You better do the same if you want eternal life. Life begets life. God revealed from Faith to Faith.
Multitudes of people believing that something is true does not make it true.
That is a fallacy. Well, we read in heaven millions and millions of people bowing down to worship God and Jesus Christ that is TRUE... and it will happen to you, and every atheist, unbeliever one day.... that every KNEE and TONGUE will confess Jesus Christ is the LORD God. That is NOT a fallacy! but one day will happen. Mark my words for it.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jun 30, 2018 19:53:55 GMT -5
Multitudes of people believing that something is true does not make it true.
That is a fallacy. Well, we read in heaven millions and millions of people bowing down to worship God and Jesus Christ that is TRUE... and it will happen to you, and every atheist, unbeliever one day.... that every KNEE and TONGUE will confess Jesus Christ is the LORD God. That is NOT a fallacy! but one day will happen. Mark my words for it.
Why don't you try reading some other religious books beside the bible?
See how well you will be able to believe them and if you are so sure of them that you will want to quote what they say?
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Post by nathan on Jun 30, 2018 20:10:47 GMT -5
Well, we read in heaven millions and millions of people bowing down to worship God and Jesus Christ that is TRUE... and it will happen to you, and every atheist, unbeliever one day.... that every KNEE and TONGUE will confess Jesus Christ is the LORD God. That is NOT a fallacy! but one day will happen. Mark my words for it.
Why don't you try reading some other religious books beside the bible?
See how well you will be able to believe them and if you are so sure of them that you will want to quote what they say? Well, the Bible is the most read book in the world and is the ONLY book will help you to get SAVED.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 1, 2018 3:24:06 GMT -5
Why don't you try reading some other religious books beside the bible?
See how well you will be able to believe them and if you are so sure of them that you will want to quote what they say? Well, the Bible is the most read book in the world and is the ONLY book will help you to get SAVED.The bible starts out with something that is wrong. The biblical idea of creation is a tribal myth. Once you realize that, the rest of the bible becomes unbelievable.
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Post by nathan on Jul 1, 2018 8:58:04 GMT -5
Well, the Bible is the most read book in the world and is the ONLY book will help you to get SAVED. The bible starts out with something that is wrong. The biblical idea of creation is a tribal myth. Once you realize that, the rest of the bible becomes unbelievable. You atheists believe The biblical idea of creation is a tribal myth because you don't believe in God/Elohim/Plural as the Creators.... So, you believe in the BIG BANG theory? Just look at your human body, the BIG BANG did NOT create all the intricate layout how the human body organs work together perfectly, male and female= SEX and children come out of a woman.... That take an amazing Designer and Creator with a mind of God to Create. BIG BANG theory, didn't do that.
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Post by snow on Jul 1, 2018 11:49:47 GMT -5
Multitudes of people believing that something is true does not make it true.
That is a fallacy. Well, we read in heaven millions and millions of people bowing down to worship God and Jesus Christ that is TRUE... and it will happen to you, and every atheist, unbeliever one day.... that every KNEE and TONGUE will confess Jesus Christ is the LORD God. That is NOT a fallacy! but one day will happen. Mark my words for it.
There are millions that believe Allah is truth too. And they are just as sure as you are about your beliefs.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Jul 1, 2018 13:18:00 GMT -5
The bible starts out with something that is wrong. The biblical idea of creation is a tribal myth. Once you realize that, the rest of the bible becomes unbelievable. You atheists believe The biblical idea of creation is a tribal myth because you don't believe in God/Elohim/Plural as the Creators.... So, you believe in the BIG BANG theory? Just look at your human body, the BIG BANG did NOT create all the intricate layout how the human body organs work together perfectly, male and female= SEX and children come out of a woman.... That take an amazing Designer and Creator with a mind of God to Create. BIG BANG theory, didn't do that.You have your first sentence around the wrong way. Atheists do not believe in god because they do not believe the creation story. There is a substantial difference to what you said.
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Post by nathan on Jul 1, 2018 16:41:57 GMT -5
Well, we read in heaven millions and millions of people bowing down to worship God and Jesus Christ that is TRUE... and it will happen to you, and every atheist, unbeliever one day.... that every KNEE and TONGUE will confess Jesus Christ is the LORD God. That is NOT a fallacy! but one day will happen. Mark my words for it.
There are millions that believe Allah is truth too. And they are just as sure as you are about your beliefs. Well, let us wait and see Allah will give the muslims men of martyr 72 virgins to enjoy in heaven. I believe the Muslims will be shocked when they found out, the Allah they worship turned out to be Jesus Christ,God the Father and the Holy Spirit.It is widely believed that Muslim 'martyrs' enjoy rich sensual rewards on reaching paradise. A new study suggests they may be disappointed.
Special report: religion in the UK
In August, 2001, the American television channel CBS aired an interview with a Hamas activist Muhammad Abu Wardeh, who recruited terrorists for suicide bombings in Israel. Abu Wardeh was quoted as saying: "I described to him how God would compensate the martyr for sacrificing his life for his land. If you become a martyr, God will give you 70 virgins, 70 wives and everlasting happiness." Wardeh was in fact shortchanging his recruits since the rewards in Paradise for martyrs was 72 virgins.
www.theguardian.com/books/2002/jan/12/books.guardianreview5
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Post by nathan on Jul 1, 2018 16:49:09 GMT -5
You atheists believe The biblical idea of creation is a tribal myth because you don't believe in God/Elohim/Plural as the Creators.... So, you believe in the BIG BANG theory? Just look at your human body, the BIG BANG did NOT create all the intricate layout how the human body organs work together perfectly, male and female= SEX and children come out of a woman.... That take an amazing Designer and Creator with a mind of God to Create. BIG BANG theory, didn't do that. You have your first sentence around the wrong way. Atheists do not believe in god because they do not believe the creation story. There is a substantial difference to what you said. Let me correct it..... The Atheists believe in BIG BANG theory! and NOT in the Creators of the Universe. They believe they came from nowhere, and somehow BANG! they exist.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 1, 2018 17:10:33 GMT -5
You have your first sentence around the wrong way. Atheists do not believe in god because they do not believe the creation story. There is a substantial difference to what you said. Let me correct it..... The Atheists believe in BIG BANG theory! and NOT in the Creators of the Universe. They believe they came from nowhere, and somehow BANG! they exist. Why do you bring a "science" into the conversation concerning "atheism," wally?
Science and atheism is two different subjects!
Why can't you get the definition of "atheism" correct? It is ridiculous!
You , as well as many others, are guilty of dumping everything you dislike on "atheism!"
definition of atheism
noun:
:the doctrine or belief that there is no God. :disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.
Now what has the BIG BANG got anything to do with the "atheism?"
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