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Post by Get off of TMB on Sept 22, 2017 15:45:49 GMT -5
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Post by Get off of TMB on Sept 22, 2017 15:50:41 GMT -5
At one point a worker called me from out of town and asked me to rummage through one of their drawers in our house to find a “field manual”. I had no clue what they were referring to but found what they needed and read off a phone number from it and an address. This “field manual” I discovered had a summary write-up on the status of the friends in that field, who was struggling with what, who was a good supporter, arrangements made for meetings, etc. The “who’s who” of the field; how convenient. Now it made sense why certain decisions were made regarding others in the meeting even by newly arriving workers reassigned to our field. For example, there were some men in the meetings that were simply never allowed to be a “backup elder” when the elder was out of town, the way meetings were arranged (who would go where) and why, who could have the privilege of having a meeting and who could not (even if the “could-nots” were qualified scripturally), preferred treatment of others, pointed comments/hints and lectures in your home in front of your kids, the custom tailored messages in “gospel meetings” pointed at certain individuals on the worker “poop list”, who’s allowed to partake in the meetings and who’s not, etc.
Workers were so busy with their travels to/from special meetings, conventions, home visits, special convention project, etc. that on average they only spent about 5 to 6 months in their actual assigned fields. I didn’t actually witness any workers expanding into new areas, visiting people, spreading the gospel (according to them). They relied on the friends to make new contacts to bring more “outsiders” to meeting. Some couch surfed, constantly on their laptops or phones, hopped from home to home frequently (since they’re homeless – this completely goes against Christ’s instructions to a homeless ministry – see Luke 10:7), did almost nothing to help around the house, some had special diets that they expected to be catered to, most didn’t visit the afflicted (unless you were “really special”), no heart toward lost souls, no thought toward the sick/dying/prisoners, etc. They just don’t behave at all like a true minister at all. Even in today’s fairly affluent society this is a pretty luxurious arrangement.
As I grew more disgusted with this 2x2 ministry I really just stopped caring about what the ministry thought of me **** The above quote from Ex-elder Earl George explains the politics of the group to a "T".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2017 18:27:09 GMT -5
At one point a worker called me from out of town and asked me to rummage through one of their drawers in our house to find a “field manual”. I had no clue what they were referring to but found what they needed and read off a phone number from it and an address. This “field manual” I discovered had a summary write-up on the status of the friends in that field, who was struggling with what, who was a good supporter, arrangements made for meetings, etc. The “who’s who” of the field; how convenient. Now it made sense why certain decisions were made regarding others in the meeting even by newly arriving workers reassigned to our field. For example, there were some men in the meetings that were simply never allowed to be a “backup elder” when the elder was out of town, the way meetings were arranged (who would go where) and why, who could have the privilege of having a meeting and who could not (even if the “could-nots” were qualified scripturally), preferred treatment of others, pointed comments/hints and lectures in your home in front of your kids, the custom tailored messages in “gospel meetings” pointed at certain individuals on the worker “poop list”, who’s allowed to partake in the meetings and who’s not, etc. Workers were so busy with their travels to/from special meetings, conventions, home visits, special convention project, etc. that on average they only spent about 5 to 6 months in their actual assigned fields. I didn’t actually witness any workers expanding into new areas, visiting people, spreading the gospel (according to them). They relied on the friends to make new contacts to bring more “outsiders” to meeting. Some couch surfed, constantly on their laptops or phones, hopped from home to home frequently (since they’re homeless – this completely goes against Christ’s instructions to a homeless ministry – see Luke 10:7), did almost nothing to help around the house, some had special diets that they expected to be catered to, most didn’t visit the afflicted (unless you were “really special”), no heart toward lost souls, no thought toward the sick/dying/prisoners, etc. They just don’t behave at all like a true minister at all. Even in today’s fairly affluent society this is a pretty luxurious arrangement. As I grew more disgusted with this 2x2 ministry I really just stopped caring about what the ministry thought of me **** The above quote from Ex-elder Earl George explains the politics of the group to a "T". Some younger friends that left 2 years ago around the same time as us got written in the field manual. They were having unsanctioned bible studies without workers to "help" them. They workers told them that the book was to help them remember who to follow up on.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 22, 2017 23:46:41 GMT -5
At one point a worker called me from out of town and asked me to rummage through one of their drawers in our house to find a “field manual”. I had no clue what they were referring to but found what they needed and read off a phone number from it and an address. This “field manual” I discovered had a summary write-up on the status of the friends in that field, who was struggling with what, who was a good supporter, arrangements made for meetings, etc. The “who’s who” of the field; how convenient. Now it made sense why certain decisions were made regarding others in the meeting even by newly arriving workers reassigned to our field. For example, there were some men in the meetings that were simply never allowed to be a “backup elder” when the elder was out of town, the way meetings were arranged (who would go where) and why, who could have the privilege of having a meeting and who could not (even if the “could-nots” were qualified scripturally), preferred treatment of others, pointed comments/hints and lectures in your home in front of your kids, the custom tailored messages in “gospel meetings” pointed at certain individuals on the worker “poop list”, who’s allowed to partake in the meetings and who’s not, etc. Workers were so busy with their travels to/from special meetings, conventions, home visits, special convention project, etc. that on average they only spent about 5 to 6 months in their actual assigned fields. I didn’t actually witness any workers expanding into new areas, visiting people, spreading the gospel (according to them). They relied on the friends to make new contacts to bring more “outsiders” to meeting. Some couch surfed, constantly on their laptops or phones, hopped from home to home frequently (since they’re homeless – this completely goes against Christ’s instructions to a homeless ministry – see Luke 10:7), did almost nothing to help around the house, some had special diets that they expected to be catered to, most didn’t visit the afflicted (unless you were “really special”), no heart toward lost souls, no thought toward the sick/dying/prisoners, etc. They just don’t behave at all like a true minister at all. Even in today’s fairly affluent society this is a pretty luxurious arrangement. As I grew more disgusted with this 2x2 ministry I really just stopped caring about what the ministry thought of me **** The above quote from Ex-elder Earl George explains the politics of the group to a "T". Some younger friends that left 2 years ago around the same time as us got written in the field manual. They were having unsanctioned bible studies without workers to "help" them. They workers told them that the book was to help them remember who to follow up on. I can imagine what all has been written about me.
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Post by fixit on Sept 23, 2017 0:23:53 GMT -5
At one point a worker called me from out of town and asked me to rummage through one of their drawers in our house to find a “field manual”. I had no clue what they were referring to but found what they needed and read off a phone number from it and an address. This “field manual” I discovered had a summary write-up on the status of the friends in that field, who was struggling with what, who was a good supporter, arrangements made for meetings, etc. The “who’s who” of the field; how convenient. Now it made sense why certain decisions were made regarding others in the meeting even by newly arriving workers reassigned to our field. For example, there were some men in the meetings that were simply never allowed to be a “backup elder” when the elder was out of town, the way meetings were arranged (who would go where) and why, who could have the privilege of having a meeting and who could not (even if the “could-nots” were qualified scripturally), preferred treatment of others, pointed comments/hints and lectures in your home in front of your kids, the custom tailored messages in “gospel meetings” pointed at certain individuals on the worker “poop list”, who’s allowed to partake in the meetings and who’s not, etc. Workers were so busy with their travels to/from special meetings, conventions, home visits, special convention project, etc. that on average they only spent about 5 to 6 months in their actual assigned fields. I didn’t actually witness any workers expanding into new areas, visiting people, spreading the gospel (according to them). They relied on the friends to make new contacts to bring more “outsiders” to meeting. Some couch surfed, constantly on their laptops or phones, hopped from home to home frequently (since they’re homeless – this completely goes against Christ’s instructions to a homeless ministry – see Luke 10:7), did almost nothing to help around the house, some had special diets that they expected to be catered to, most didn’t visit the afflicted (unless you were “really special”), no heart toward lost souls, no thought toward the sick/dying/prisoners, etc. They just don’t behave at all like a true minister at all. Even in today’s fairly affluent society this is a pretty luxurious arrangement. As I grew more disgusted with this 2x2 ministry I really just stopped caring about what the ministry thought of me **** The above quote from Ex-elder Earl George explains the politics of the group to a "T". Some younger friends that left 2 years ago around the same time as us got written in the field manual. They were having unsanctioned bible studies without workers to "help" them. They workers told them that the book was to help them remember who to follow up on. I remember a time when a differentiating factor was "unlike worldly churches, we have no church roll. There's nothing to join."
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Post by Get off of TMB on Sept 23, 2017 13:19:28 GMT -5
A worker left a contact list here. It listed some potential contacts. I remember that one man was listed by name. And in addition to his name, it was said of him that "he is a good man who doesn't feel his need"!
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Post by snow on Sept 23, 2017 17:23:16 GMT -5
Really? I'm sure I made the list then! I imagine they need something like that to keep things straight...
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Post by breakfree on Sept 23, 2017 22:04:50 GMT -5
...the Truth does set you free may the fear of man flee from us,as we do Thy Will
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Post by xna on Sept 27, 2017 15:49:19 GMT -5
Some younger friends that left 2 years ago around the same time as us got written in the field manual. They were having unsanctioned bible studies without workers to "help" them. They workers told them that the book was to help them remember who to follow up on. The Didache, or Teaching of the Apostles is a pastoral manual and said to be dating c. 40–60 AD. Chapter 11: 5-7 11:5 Let every apostle, who comes to you, be received as the Lord; 11:6 but he shall not stay more than a single day, or if there be need, two; 11:7 but if he stays three days, he is a false prophet
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Post by Pragmatic on Sept 27, 2017 17:58:31 GMT -5
I think Earl breached the worker's trust by reading through the manual.
One would need to be naive to think there was no such thing as the manual. It is also common in other churches, although the details are usually in a proper database. I know of one church where pastoral visits are timed to coincide with pledges, and no-one bats an eye.
While I have some sympathies with Earl and his family, I don't think he handled this well. One could be forgiven for asking the question, was he too young and naive to be an elder? (Yes I know Jesus was younger.) Or did he go "over the top" in what he was saying?
Without knowing all sides, it seems like a badly handled situation all round.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2017 18:02:30 GMT -5
Some younger friends that left 2 years ago around the same time as us got written in the field manual. They were having unsanctioned bible studies without workers to "help" them. They workers told them that the book was to help them remember who to follow up on. The Didache, or Teaching of the Apostles is a pastoral manual and said to be dating c. 40–60 AD. Chapter 11: 5-7 11:5 Let every apostle, who comes to you, be received as the Lord; 11:6 but he shall not stay more than a single day, or if there be need, two; 11:7 but if he stays three days, he is a false prophet a little further down it says its an unforgivable sin, thats not in accordance with Jesus words on that matter....only blasphemy is unforgivable...
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Post by xna on Sept 27, 2017 18:49:10 GMT -5
The Didache, or Teaching of the Apostles is a pastoral manual and said to be dating c. 40–60 AD. Chapter 11: 5-7 11:5 Let every apostle, who comes to you, be received as the Lord; 11:6 but he shall not stay more than a single day, or if there be need, two; 11:7 but if he stays three days, he is a false prophet a little further down it says its an unforgivable sin, thats not in accordance with Jesus words on that matter....only blasphemy is unforgivable... The 2x2 could get behind this idea. Perhaphs there was a mistranslation in the book and it's not unforgivable, but just a really bad sin 11:9 but if he asks for money, he is a false prophet.
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alex
New Member
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Post by alex on Sept 28, 2017 3:13:34 GMT -5
The truth may change with each generation, but the Truth doesn't change. The [T/t?]ruth is Jesus. Confused? Well you shouldn't be - Satan is the author of confusion. Worried that you're now in Satan's clutches? Well you should be - you are! The workers offer a solution just itching for a good problem So true, the truth is the person, not a doctrine or church. Do I know Him, like I know John or Tom?
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Post by nathan on Sept 28, 2017 8:39:07 GMT -5
Some younger friends that left 2 years ago around the same time as us got written in the field manual. They were having unsanctioned bible studies without workers to "help" them. They workers told them that the book was to help them remember who to follow up on. The Didache, or Teaching of the Apostles is a pastoral manual and said to be dating c. 40–60 AD. Chapter 11: 5-7 11:5 Let every apostle, who comes to you, be received as the Lord; 11:6 but he shall not stay more than a single day, or if there be need, two; 11:7 but if he stays three days, he is a false prophet *** in the book of Acts we read Peter, Paul and his companions in the homes of their followers more than 3 days, sometimes Paul stayed in an area for couples yrs.
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Post by nathan on Sept 28, 2017 9:01:27 GMT -5
a little further down it says its an unforgivable sin, thats not in accordance with Jesus words on that matter....only blasphemy is unforgivable... The 2x2 could get behind this idea. Perhaphs there was a mistranslation in the book and it's not unforgivable, but just a really bad sin 11:9 but if he asks for money, he is a false prophet.*** you need to read I Cor. where Paul wrote concerning about the ministry they that preach the gospel live by the gospel... Do not muzzle the ox while he tread the corns. If the believers do their parts in supplying all their needs then then the ministers/workers don't need to ask for money.
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Post by xna on Sept 28, 2017 9:19:46 GMT -5
The 2x2 could get behind this idea. Perhaphs there was a mistranslation in the book and it's not unforgivable, but just a really bad sin 11:9 but if he asks for money, he is a false prophet.*** you need to read I Cor. where Paul wrote concerning about the ministry they that preach the gospel live by the gospel... Do not muzzle the ox while he tread the corns. If the believers do their parts in supplying all their needs then then the ministers/workers don't need to ask for money. I know there are contradictions in the books that did not make the bible, but there are also contradictions in the books that did make the bible. You should embrace the book of Didache for it says in Chapter 13: 1-2 But every true prophet desiring to settle among you is worthy of his food. 13:2 In like manner a true teacher is also worthy, like the workman, of his food.Why accept the book of Enoch and not accept the book of Didache? When you pick and choose what you like best it's called Cafeteria Christianity
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Post by nathan on Sept 28, 2017 11:08:58 GMT -5
*** you need to read I Cor. where Paul wrote concerning about the ministry they that preach the gospel live by the gospel... Do not muzzle the ox while he tread the corns. If the believers do their parts in supplying all their needs then then the ministers/workers don't need to ask for money. I know there are contradictions in the books that did not make the bible, but there are also contradictions in the books that did make the bible. You should embrace the book of Didache for it says in Chapter 13: 1-2 But every true prophet desiring to settle among you is worthy of his food. 13:2 In like manner a true teacher is also worthy, like the workman, of his food.Why accept the book of Enoch and not accept the book of Didache? When you pick and choose what you like best it's called Cafeteria Christianity *** we must be like those in the book of acts, who examined the preaching and teaching of Paul constantly whether they were according to God's word. The same with the book of Enoch, Noah and many books were not included in the Bible.
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Post by xna on Sept 28, 2017 12:55:18 GMT -5
*** we must be like those in the book of acts, who examined the preaching and teaching of Paul constantly whether they were according to God's word. The same with the book of Enoch, Noah and many books were not included in the Bible. Examining all things for their reasonableness is a good practice.
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Post by snow on Sept 28, 2017 13:31:38 GMT -5
Cafeteria Christianity? That's actually not a bad term for the amount of variety the bible offers it's interpreters. Christian potluck? Christian smorgasbord? But it's a valid question. Why believe in only the ones that you agree with and not even consider that those that you don't believe in just be the ones that are right?
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Post by fixit on Sept 28, 2017 14:38:33 GMT -5
Cafeteria Christianity? That's actually not a bad term for the amount of variety the bible offers it's interpreters. Christian potluck? Christian smorgasbord? But it's a valid question. Why believe in only the ones that you agree with and not even consider that those that you don't believe in just be the ones that are right? I'm not sure that I understand what you're saying Snow. There are things in the bible that you agree with, and things that you don't agree with.
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Post by Get off of TMB on Sept 28, 2017 16:46:12 GMT -5
Young elders have to earn respect from the older saints in the field.
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Post by xna on Sept 28, 2017 16:57:28 GMT -5
Cafeteria Christianity
".. the person in question selects which of the principles of Christianity they intend to adhere to and assembles their beliefs from what makes sense for them..."
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Post by snow on Sept 28, 2017 17:36:07 GMT -5
Cafeteria Christianity? That's actually not a bad term for the amount of variety the bible offers it's interpreters. Christian potluck? Christian smorgasbord? But it's a valid question. Why believe in only the ones that you agree with and not even consider that those that you don't believe in just be the ones that are right? I'm not sure that I understand what you're saying Snow. There are things in the bible that you agree with, and things that you don't agree with. What I mean is that there are so many different ways to interpret the bible and that is reflected in the many denominations out there. If you believe in God and you believe the bible was written my him then the whole bible should be the truth not just the things you agree with. But unless you are part if the group that believes in every word of the bible many Christians do not believe all of it or if they believe it they interpret in a way that works for them. And, I do think it is a valid question about other books that never made the bible. Are you missing out on vital information that could impact you just because the RCC did not choose those documents to go into the bible. How do you know for sure
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