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Post by Get off of TMB on Sept 16, 2017 19:49:10 GMT -5
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Post by Roselyn T on Sept 16, 2017 21:06:21 GMT -5
Gill, very kind and thoughtful of you but I think perhaps the person you have in mind for this is Ross? Yes obviously I have feeling and compassion for the many who have been abused under the umbrella of Anglicanism! I have to confess I don't post on anglican church forums about their victims I'm firstly concerned about CSA firstly within my own church. Interestingly Ross does it the other way around!!! He is 'concerned' about CSA in his ex church; makes quite a song and dance about it. But revealingly doesn't post on anglican forums in support of the multiple victims of Australian anglican clergy and employees. But perhaps your thoughtful post will give him a jog in the right direction? @review005 don't you have a mission to get ready for ? As Get off of TMB has said we are concerned about how CSA in the 2x2 church is being handled, are you really that "thick " that you don't understand that some of us still have family members who belong to the 2x2 church. We are all aware that CSA happens in other churches and places, but when a church that claims it is "the only right way" cannot clean up their "own backyard" everyone should be concerned !
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 16, 2017 21:15:34 GMT -5
Of course not ... I live on the other side of the world. Ha, ha, you can fool some people some of the time, but not all the people all of the time. So where do you think I live?
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Post by Roselyn T on Sept 16, 2017 21:24:13 GMT -5
Ros, glad you are aware that CSA happens in other churches and places. I think it is very very disappointing that you aren't devoting your time and posts on the behalf of those victims. Right there in your Australian backyard are multiple victims in many churches. You seem to be very narrow minded and selfish in our approach. I would have thought your atheist approach would have been more impartial and caring? @review005 I am well aware of victims in other churches as I stated above. When people I know personally and family have been abused by the church that I grew up in of course I am going to support them, especially when we look at how CSA has been handled in the past by the church that claims it is the only right way and is quick to judge other churches as being wrong. Why is it so hard for you to accept that your church has handled CSA very badly in the past, how about you explain to us why an ex-worker who was jailed for CSA has been re-baptised ? I cannot imagine that happening in any other church, but of course other churches are so wrong !
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Post by matisse on Sept 16, 2017 22:28:27 GMT -5
@review005 . If this is so, and RossB fails to direct his CSA advocacy towards the victims within his own Christian sect, then why doesn't he? Had I been accused of this failing, I would provide link(s) wherein I have expressed my opinions about the mishandling of CSA by the Anglican Church to show I am concerned about CSA in my current group and so prove that Review's accusation is wrong. Ross did provide a link: professing.proboards.com/post/754473 That there is not a similar site for 2x2's, is good enough reason for me for Ross and other exes to be concerned and involved.
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Post by Roselyn T on Sept 16, 2017 23:07:04 GMT -5
Roselyn T. You may be missing the point? Why would a person who belongs to another church that is experiencing serious CSA issues not wish to show they are also advocating on behalf of the children in their own church as well as those in their former church? Unfortunately there is enough evidence of recurring incidents of CSA within the Anglican and other churches that undermines the efficacy of existing processes and education. It is great an ex member is concerned about children's welfare but it would be a relief to know they are equally as energised to advocate on behalf of the vulnerable members of their current church. The person should be proud to exemplify this advocacy and we should encourage this. joanna, what makes you think Ross.Bowden is not advocating on behalf of the children in his church ? The point I was making is this is a forum about the 2x2 Church not any other church ! We are all aware that CSA happens in other churches and places, what you don't seem to understand is we still have family in the 2x2 Church, children that are being put at risk. We all know how CSA has NOT been handled in the past in the 2x2 Church. All @review005 is doing is sidestepping the issue !
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Post by matisse on Sept 17, 2017 5:22:02 GMT -5
matisse I may be missing something but I was referring to a link to an Anglican forum where Ross has contributed his disgust and concern for CSA within his church . I understood that. Ross has a personal stake in both organizations. The Anglican Church appears to be facing the problem of CSA head-on; the 2x2's appear to be still in a state of denial. I do not see any hypocrisy if Ross helps agitate for change in a 2x2 forum and doesn't in an Anglican forum.
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Post by mod4 on Sept 17, 2017 5:27:30 GMT -5
joanna, what makes you think Ross.Bowden is not advocating on behalf of the children in his church ? The point I was making is this is a forum about the 2x2 Church not any other church ! We are all aware that CSA happens in other churches and places, what you don't seem to understand is we still have family in the 2x2 Church, children that are being put at risk. We all know how CSA has NOT been handled in the past in the 2x2 Church. All @review005 is doing is sidestepping the issue ! Exactly right, it is inappropriate for Ross or anybody to post about CSA in other churches on this sub-board and particularly on this thread. If people want to discuss CSA in other churches, you are welcome to start its own thread on the sub-board Religions, Thought, Doctrine and Issues. Very shortly I or another of the admins will remove all posts on this thread that are off-topic. This warning gives anybody who wants to keep what they've posted off-topic here the opportunity to copy it to another thread in the General area. The antagonism towards other TMB posters on this thread is unacceptable too. Nobody from TMB is on trial, or under any compulsion to produce evidence at the whim of others here. Rule 4 Stick to the topic Rule 1 No personal attacks, insults or threats
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Post by kittens on Sept 25, 2017 19:22:55 GMT -5
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Post by CherieKropp on Nov 20, 2017 11:06:48 GMT -5
Update: This was in my email inbox this a.m. See front page article for The Daily Telegraph newspaper, Sydney, Australia Dated Nov 20, 2017 By Annabel Hennessy Titled: Hide and Freak - Victims Fight Court Secrecy Exclusive: Judge spares predator jail because of insomnia and "high cholesterol."
NOTE: TLC Members can view/read image of article on TLC.
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Post by kittens on Nov 20, 2017 13:07:23 GMT -5
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Post by kittens on Nov 20, 2017 15:34:47 GMT -5
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Post by fixit on Nov 20, 2017 16:31:22 GMT -5
Is there a link that we don't need to subscribe to?
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Post by CherieKropp on Nov 20, 2017 16:32:50 GMT -5
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Post by Admin on Nov 20, 2017 16:52:01 GMT -5
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Post by fixit on Nov 20, 2017 17:02:59 GMT -5
Editorial: No freedom for fiend’s victims The Daily Telegraph November 20, 2017 2:00am
POLICE everywhere keep informal lists of weak excuses given by motorists after they’ve been caught speeding.
“I have to put my dog indoors because it’s raining,” a Canberra driver told police after being timed at 47km/h over the speed limit.
“I had a bad day,” another driver, nabbed at 141km/h in a 90 zone, told officers. “I’ve just been to a funeral.”
These claims — like almost all speeding excuses — failed to reduce the legal consequences of these drivers’ reckless actions.
Yet similarly irrelevant and pathetic claims presented in a NSW court have somehow moved a judge to avoid jailing a paedophile convicted of raping and abusing young girls at his church.
Facing the prospect of a significant prison sentence, the convicted man — who can be identified only as TM — offered a series of lame reasons why he didn’t deserve confinement, including his high cholesterol, how the case had caused him trouble sleeping, lack of sex education at school and his farm once suffering through a drought.
How awful for him.
Additionally, the man claimed any incarceration would leave him “vulnerable to abuse”.
That is something he might have considered prior to his own shameful attacks, which occurred during a six-year period from 1980 to 1987.
For those appalling crimes, carried out on victims aged as young as nine, District Court Judge John North imposed a mere two-year suspended sentence.
Worse still, the 55-year-old man, who pleaded guilty to a total of 10 counts of child sex crimes, won’t even be constrained by a supervision order.
For motorists and other low-level law-breakers who routinely find their excuses ignored, the judge’s sensitivity to TM’s various alleged hardships must be extremely vexing.
Try telling a police officer that you were speeding because of a drought or high cholesterol and you’ll be lucky if the officer doesn’t laugh in your face.
Yet the same lines convinced a judge to avoid sending an admitted child sex criminal to jail.
Little wonder that one of his several victims, whose real names cannot be published, described the non-sentence sentence as a “slap in the face”.
She continued: “To say someone who raped children has good character is disgusting. They didn’t care about us as victims ... It’s ruined my whole life.”
Those five final words sum up what this case should have been about: the childhoods and lives destroyed by a predator. Instead, the case ended with concerns for the predator.
The public is becoming increasingly tired of sentences that manifestly fail to meet reasonable community expectations.
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Nov 20, 2017 17:47:04 GMT -5
Ha ha, Elizabeth! Appreciate your 'beating around the bush', more of your venting... and confirming that indeed your post was a rumour mill post! Meanwhile I'll wait until confirmed correct details come hand! You'll see Scott's post above regarding that! Confirmed details now plastered all over the front pages of a major Australian paper, Review. Your waiting is over. An apology might be in order.
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Nov 20, 2017 17:56:40 GMT -5
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Nov 20, 2017 17:57:04 GMT -5
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Post by howitis on Nov 20, 2017 18:43:03 GMT -5
How sad for both the victims and the perpetrator and even perhaps the judge.....I somehow feel that often a perpetrator doing time in jail helps them come to terms with their past. Great work, Daily Telegraph, depending on the wording of the suppression order publishing photos of some of those involved, with their faces concealed, has probably given many people ability to identify some of those involved, which in turn will quite possibly render any appeal from the victims in favour of the perpetrator....when will people learn?
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Post by elizabethcoleman on Nov 20, 2017 19:19:22 GMT -5
Confirmed details now plastered all over the front pages of a major Australian paper, Review. Your waiting is over. An apology might be in order. ?? ?? Explain yourself In the context of the posts you made and the responses I gave. Then wipe the egg off your face. No further explanation is needed or will be forthcoming. Your lack of care and concern for the victims of any such abuse speaks for itself.
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Post by snow on Nov 20, 2017 19:22:49 GMT -5
Well that's a disgusting state of affairs. What is going on in Oz? He should be on a sex offenders list. They didn't jail him because of the potential he might be abused??!!! Really, so we just let him run around molesting children! What is wrong with people. What about the abuse these children experienced? He could have been kept out of the general population and that would have kept him from abuse by inmates. Most guards may not treat him gently but I don't know of many that would abuse him in the way he abused the children. Working in Corrections most of my life makes these kinds of stories so hard to understand. We don't need want them abused in prison, but we do need to protect society from them. If nothing else they absolutely need conditions to their sentencing like a supervision order, a restraining order from all children etc. He plead guilty to 10 offences. This isn't just speculation or a hung jury. This is someone that has admitted he committed these offences.
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Post by kittens on Nov 20, 2017 19:37:22 GMT -5
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Post by kittens on Nov 20, 2017 19:48:04 GMT -5
How sad for both the victims and the perpetrator and even perhaps the judge.....I somehow feel that often a perpetrator doing time in jail helps them come to terms with their past. Great work, Daily Telegraph, depending on the wording of the suppression order publishing photos of some of those involved, with their faces concealed, has probably given many people ability to identify some of those involved, which in turn will quite possibly render any appeal from the victims in favour of the perpetrator....when will people learn?
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jwatt
Junior Member
Posts: 185
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Post by jwatt on Nov 20, 2017 19:59:36 GMT -5
The way this csa case has been handled is an absolute disgrace and the lack of support towards the girls sickens me. The perpetrator is well looked after when he should have been locked up
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Post by snow on Nov 20, 2017 20:03:58 GMT -5
How sad for both the victims and the perpetrator and even perhaps the judge.....I somehow feel that often a perpetrator doing time in jail helps them come to terms with their past. Great work, Daily Telegraph, depending on the wording of the suppression order publishing photos of some of those involved, with their faces concealed, has probably given many people ability to identify some of those involved, which in turn will quite possibly render any appeal from the victims in favour of the perpetrator....when will people learn? Hopefully one good thing has come out of this newspaper article. Convention is only a few weeks away. Anyone who sees the photo of him and knows him could not mistake his identity. Hopefully parents will read this paper and be aware so they can protect their children from him. Even though these offences happened years ago, I bet they are not the only offences and I bet, given the opportunity, he would not do it again. If publishing these concealed photos saves just one child from the possibility of abuse at convention this year then I say it is a good thing - whatever the consequences later on. What photos kittens?
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Post by kittens on Nov 20, 2017 20:15:42 GMT -5
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Post by Roselyn T on Nov 20, 2017 20:18:40 GMT -5
Some months ago when this thread was started I asked this question: Is the perpetrator attending meetings and/or taking part in meetings? Nobody could or would answer the question then. Can anyone answer that question now based on known confirmed fact (not on hearsay). I have zero tolerance of CSA. (fullstop) But I will not question my colleagues in this ministry handling of it based on hearsay. I need confirmed facts. If anyone wishes to communicate by pm that is fine. thanks @review005 don't you have Allan Kitto's phone number ? Ring him and ask him yourself, if you have zero tolerance for CSA (fullstop) I would have thought your first priority would have been to ring Allan.
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