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Post by stevie on Sept 10, 2017 11:12:18 GMT -5
I was brought up in the 70s and 80's in the meetings in N.Ireland.
I've left 30 years, some of my family still go.
Over the years I've slowly come to realise, what I can only call, the the lunacy of it all. (I'm not just talking about the meetings here either, I'm talking about religion in general).
I see people in the meetings controlled by almost comical rules and restrictions. The more I think about it, the more ludicrous it becomes...honestly.
Ok, so here are my thoughts....
Am I to believe that a man who lives somewhere in the sky, hundreds of millions of years ago, decided to create a small planet (earth) in the universe? (Let's not even try to fool ourselves the earth is 6,000 years old. Surely no one believes that in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence to the contrary?)
Secondly, this man in the sky, decided to 'make' a species called humans around 200,000 years ago. He then decided to play a 'game' for thousands of years, whereby if you were a good human, you would go to a nice planet called heaven when you died, but if you were a bad human, you would go to planet hell.
So god, has been playing this 'game' then for hundreds of thousands of years?
I mean why would you even bother to create microscopic little beings and place them on a speck of dust called earth, in the vastness of the universe? If god wanted a perfect people to come and live with him in a place called heaven, then why did he not simply create those perfect people in the first place....and cut out hundreds of thousands of years playing a silly game of 'saved or not'!
thirdly, why does an all-seeing god who made both us and the universe, not know our futures anyway? He knows everything, he must know how we are going to die? He knows exactly our state of mind, when we die, surely....whether we are 'saved or not' That can't surely be a mystery to a god who built the universe?
So why does he try to 'save' us? He knows our beginning and our end...so why send workers to save us from our sin, when an all powerful god must know exactly if we will eventually die in sin or not?
I mean think about that? It's just nonsensical when you think about it.
I really wish it was otherwise, but I see no evidence to the contrary, blind faith in something is not evidence
So that's a synopsis of my current believes, I would be interested in hear others views.
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Post by snow on Sept 10, 2017 13:12:46 GMT -5
If you study the different religions in the world and their history and emergence as a religion, you will find that very little of what is believed makes any sense and it takes a great deal of faith to live with the cognitive dissonance. Science has proven so much of what religions believe, to be wrong. Yet people still just ignore the facts in order to have faith. I couldn't do that anymore so I let go of it all. Much better place to be, for me at least. I can't understand how people deal with facts disproving their beliefs and then they still hang on to the beliefs. But that's what having faith is good for. Ignoring anything that doesn't back up the bible view or the koran view. It's obviously not just Christians.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2017 14:17:15 GMT -5
I was brought up in the 70s and 80's in the meetings in N.Ireland. I've left 30 years, some of my family still go. Over the years I've slowly come to realise, what I can only call, the the lunacy of it all. (I'm not just talking about the meetings here either, I'm talking about religion in general). I see people in the meetings controlled by almost comical rules and restrictions. The more I think about it, the more ludicrous it becomes...honestly. Ok, so here are my thoughts.... Am I to believe that a man who lives somewhere in the sky, hundreds of millions of years ago, decided to create a small planet (earth) in the universe? (Let's not even try to fool ourselves the earth is 6,000 years old. Surely no one believes that in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence to the contrary?) Secondly, this man in the sky, decided to 'make' a species called humans around 200,000 years ago. He then decided to play a 'game' for thousands of years, whereby if you were a good human, you would go to a nice planet called heaven when you died, but if you were a bad human, you would go to planet hell. So god, has been playing this 'game' then for hundreds of thousands of years? I mean why would you even bother to create microscopic little beings and place them on a speck of dust called earth, in the vastness of the universe? If god wanted a perfect people to come and live with him in a place called heaven, then why did he not simply create those perfect people in the first place....and cut out hundreds of thousands of years playing a silly game of 'saved or not'! thirdly, why does an all-seeing god who made both us and the universe, not know our futures anyway? He knows everything, he must know how we are going to die? He knows exactly our state of mind, when we die, surely....whether we are 'saved or not' That can't surely be a mystery to a god who built the universe? So why does he try to 'save' us? He knows our beginning and our end...so why send workers to save us from our sin, when an all powerful god must know exactly if we will eventually die in sin or not? I mean think about that? It's just nonsensical when you think about it. I really wish it was otherwise, but I see no evidence to the contrary, blind faith in something is not evidence So that's a synopsis of my current believes, I would be interested in hear others views. sorry to hear of your fall... yes there are people who believe the earth is about 6,000-13,000 years old heaven isn't exactly a planet...I.E there will be a new HEAVEN and new EARTH at the end... God doesn't want robots in heaven he wants those that CHOOSE him... he knows ALL of the endings that each person has he has just chosen free will for us so that he doesn't know which ending we will choose...
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Post by nathan on Sept 10, 2017 16:14:03 GMT -5
Ok, so here are my thoughts.... Am I to believe that a man who lives somewhere in the sky, hundreds of millions of years ago, decided to create a small planet (earth) in the universe? (Let's not even try to fool ourselves the earth is 6,000 years old. Surely no one believes that in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence to the contrary?) Secondly, this man in the sky, decided to 'make' a species called humans around 200,000 years ago. He then decided to play a 'game' for thousands of years, whereby if you were a good human, you would go to a nice planet called heaven when you died, but if you were a bad human, you would go to planet hell. So god, has been playing this 'game' then for hundreds of thousands of years? I mean why would you even bother to create microscopic little beings and place them on a speck of dust called earth, in the vastness of the universe? If god wanted a perfect people to come and live with him in a place called heaven, then why did he not simply create those perfect people in the first place....and cut out hundreds of thousands of years playing a silly game of 'saved or not'! thirdly, why does an all-seeing god who made both us and the universe, not know our futures anyway? He knows everything, he must know how we are going to die? He knows exactly our state of mind, when we die, surely....whether we are 'saved or not' That can't surely be a mystery to a god who built the universe? So why does he try to 'save' us? He knows our beginning and our end...so why send workers to save us from our sin, when an all powerful god must know exactly if we will eventually die in sin or not? I mean think about that? It's just nonsensical when you think about it. I really wish it was otherwise, but I see no evidence to the contrary, blind faith in something is not evidence So that's a synopsis of my current believes, I would be interested in hear others views. Ok, I will give it a try.... Godhead= God the Father, Christ our Lord God create the Universe... The Astronomers just found out 1 year ago, there are over 2 trillions galaxies in the Universe and they are still counting.... The Earth is about 4.5 billions years old or OLDER. God created the angels, He populated millions/billions of intelligent beings in many galaxies before he created Adam and Eve 6000 years ago and place them in the Garden of Eden as his children/image of God... But Satan entered the picture and He made a MESS out of thing! and brought sins and eternal DEATH on mankind and God could NOT allow mankind to enter heaven.
Therefore, Christ the Son volunteered to be the sacrificial Lamb of God to die for Adamic race so they and their children can enter heaven to live forever more with the Godhead.
The Bible is NOT a complete Book of God. The RCC Pope and Bishops in the 4th century only selected certain books/writings to complete as the Bible as we have today, they LEFT out many books/writings from Old and New Testament writers. Therefore, many pieces of the puzzles or stories in the Bible are NOT 100% understandable. A lot of details were left out because some of the important books of the Old Testament were left out on purpose by the Roman Catholic Church leaderships in the 4th century!
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 10, 2017 16:31:54 GMT -5
I was brought up in the 70s and 80's in the meetings in N.Ireland. I've left 30 years, some of my family still go. Over the years I've slowly come to realise, what I can only call, the the lunacy of it all. (I'm not just talking about the meetings here either, I'm talking about religion in general). I see people in the meetings controlled by almost comical rules and restrictions. The more I think about it, the more ludicrous it becomes...honestly. Ok, so here are my thoughts.... Am I to believe that a man who lives somewhere in the sky, hundreds of millions of years ago, decided to create a small planet (earth) in the universe? (Let's not even try to fool ourselves the earth is 6,000 years old. Surely no one believes that in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence to the contrary?) Secondly, this man in the sky, decided to 'make' a species called humans around 200,000 years ago. He then decided to play a 'game' for thousands of years, whereby if you were a good human, you would go to a nice planet called heaven when you died, but if you were a bad human, you would go to planet hell. So god, has been playing this 'game' then for hundreds of thousands of years? I mean why would you even bother to create microscopic little beings and place them on a speck of dust called earth, in the vastness of the universe? If god wanted a perfect people to come and live with him in a place called heaven, then why did he not simply create those perfect people in the first place....and cut out hundreds of thousands of years playing a silly game of 'saved or not'! thirdly, why does an all-seeing god who made both us and the universe, not know our futures anyway? He knows everything, he must know how we are going to die? He knows exactly our state of mind, when we die, surely....whether we are 'saved or not' That can't surely be a mystery to a god who built the universe? So why does he try to 'save' us? He knows our beginning and our end...so why send workers to save us from our sin, when an all powerful god must know exactly if we will eventually die in sin or not? I mean think about that? It's just nonsensical when you think about it. I really wish it was otherwise, but I see no evidence to the contrary, blind faith in something is not evidence So that's a synopsis of my current believes, I would be interested in hear others views. sorry to hear of your fall... yes there are people who believe the earth is about 6,000-13,000 years old heaven isn't exactly a planet...I.E there will be a new HEAVEN and new EARTH at the end... God doesn't want robots in heaven he wants those that CHOOSE him... he knows ALL of the endings that each person has he has just chosen free will for us so that he doesn't know which ending we will choose... Stevie didn't "fall!" He just got wise to the way that religion works.
At one time most people believe that the sun circled the earth. Doesn't matter how many people believe that the sun circled the earth, did their believing that make it true?
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 10, 2017 16:51:22 GMT -5
sorry to hear of your fall... yes there are people who believe the earth is about 6,000-13,000 years old heaven isn't exactly a planet...I.E there will be a new HEAVEN and new EARTH at the end... God doesn't want robots in heaven he wants those that CHOOSE him... he knows ALL of the endings that each person has he has just chosen free will for us so that he doesn't know which ending we will choose... You make it sound like a never ending fall of dominos, and you have fallen like most before you and those who are to come. Of course, all the dominos who have fallen seem to still think they're as righteous as when they were originally upright. Funny game, isn't it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2017 18:08:35 GMT -5
I mean think about that? It's just nonsensical when you think about it. I really wish it was otherwise .... This reminded me of the guy interviewed in this RTE documentary - From Belief to Unbelief - at around 37:06. It's worth listening to the entire documentary ... even more so for anyone who was (or is) a 2x2 worker who struggled (or is struggling) with belief as the similarities between the experiences of those who left the Irish Catholic Seminary and those who left 2x2 church will be striking. www.rte.ie/radio1/doconone/2012/1012/647201-radio-documentary-from-belief-to-unbelief-joe-armstrong-catholic-priesthood/Matt10
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Post by stevie on Sept 11, 2017 3:57:45 GMT -5
Thanks for all of your replies. For the replies that are arguing the existence of god, they still don't really answer my questions
they kind of skip around my points.
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Post by stevie on Sept 11, 2017 4:21:18 GMT -5
I was brought up in the 70s and 80's in the meetings in N.Ireland. I've left 30 years, some of my family still go. Over the years I've slowly come to realise, what I can only call, the the lunacy of it all. (I'm not just talking about the meetings here either, I'm talking about religion in general). I see people in the meetings controlled by almost comical rules and restrictions. The more I think about it, the more ludicrous it becomes...honestly. Ok, so here are my thoughts.... Am I to believe that a man who lives somewhere in the sky, hundreds of millions of years ago, decided to create a small planet (earth) in the universe? (Let's not even try to fool ourselves the earth is 6,000 years old. Surely no one believes that in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence to the contrary?) Secondly, this man in the sky, decided to 'make' a species called humans around 200,000 years ago. He then decided to play a 'game' for thousands of years, whereby if you were a good human, you would go to a nice planet called heaven when you died, but if you were a bad human, you would go to planet hell. So god, has been playing this 'game' then for hundreds of thousands of years? I mean why would you even bother to create microscopic little beings and place them on a speck of dust called earth, in the vastness of the universe? If god wanted a perfect people to come and live with him in a place called heaven, then why did he not simply create those perfect people in the first place....and cut out hundreds of thousands of years playing a silly game of 'saved or not'! thirdly, why does an all-seeing god who made both us and the universe, not know our futures anyway? He knows everything, he must know how we are going to die? He knows exactly our state of mind, when we die, surely....whether we are 'saved or not' That can't surely be a mystery to a god who built the universe? So why does he try to 'save' us? He knows our beginning and our end...so why send workers to save us from our sin, when an all powerful god must know exactly if we will eventually die in sin or not? I mean think about that? It's just nonsensical when you think about it. I really wish it was otherwise, but I see no evidence to the contrary, blind faith in something is not evidence So that's a synopsis of my current believes, I would be interested in hear others views. sorry to hear of your fall... yes there are people who believe the earth is about 6,000-13,000 years old heaven isn't exactly a planet...I.E there will be a new HEAVEN and new EARTH at the end... God doesn't want robots in heaven he wants those that CHOOSE him... he knows ALL of the endings that each person has he has just chosen free will for us so that he doesn't know which ending we will choose... not sure it was a fall...maybe a falling away of scales?
can you answer these questions specifically....
I was being tongue in cheek when I said 'planet Heaven'. Afterall we live on a planet now, so where will heaven be? Can you give me an approximate location of where heaven is?
It's not one scientist that says the earth is at least millions of years old, its thousands of scientists that have been telling us that. Are you saying that these highly educated, intelligent people are ALL wrong? (the same kind of people that produce startling medical breakthroughs that I'm sure you accept totally and welcome with open arms)
Why didn't God just produce a nation of perfect people to live with him from the outset? why turn it into a game of 'saved or not' for thousands of years on planet earth? (again totally illogical).
If God created the universe and everything in it, then he must also have created the devil. So why doesn't he simply destroy this nasty devil? Why let him continue to work his ways on earth, when God could have wiped him out with a click of his fingers years ago?
you said this - "he knows ALL of the endings that each person has, he has just chosen free will for us so that he doesn't know which ending we will choose" Is it just me or is that completely nonsensical? You have said in the same sentence that he DOES know all our endings, but then said he doesn't know which ending we will choose? It's a ludicrous statement is it not. Of course the God who created us knows our exact endings...so why try to 'save us'
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 11:32:36 GMT -5
sorry to hear of your fall... yes there are people who believe the earth is about 6,000-13,000 years old heaven isn't exactly a planet...I.E there will be a new HEAVEN and new EARTH at the end... God doesn't want robots in heaven he wants those that CHOOSE him... he knows ALL of the endings that each person has he has just chosen free will for us so that he doesn't know which ending we will choose... not sure it was a fall...maybe a falling away of scales?
can you answer these questions specifically....
I was being tongue in cheek when I said 'planet Heaven'. Afterall we live on a planet now, so where will heaven be? Can you give me an approximate location of where heaven is?
It's not one scientist that says the earth is at least millions of years old, its thousands of scientists that have been telling us that. Are you saying that these highly educated, intelligent people are ALL wrong? (the same kind of people that produce startling medical breakthroughs that I'm sure you accept totally and welcome with open arms)
Why didn't God just produce a nation of perfect people to live with him from the outset? why turn it into a game of 'saved or not' for thousands of years on planet earth? (again totally illogical).
If God created the universe and everything in it, then he must also have created the devil. So why doesn't he simply destroy this nasty devil? Why let him continue to work his ways on earth, when God could have wiped him out with a click of his fingers years ago?
you said this - "he knows ALL of the endings that each person has, he has just chosen free will for us so that he doesn't know which ending we will choose" Is it just me or is that completely nonsensical? You have said in the same sentence that he DOES know all our endings, but then said he doesn't know which ending we will choose? It's a ludicrous statement is it not. Of course the God who created us knows our exact endings...so why try to 'save us'
its above us somewhere maybe on a different plane of existence... argumentum ad populum(sp?)... again he doesn't want robots he wanst people who CHOOSE him... i believe there is one thing God can't do and that is to uncreate a spirit/soul(could be wrong) so thats why he just had to banish him to earth instead of "snapping his finger"... its called free will....
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Post by matisse on Sept 11, 2017 12:21:17 GMT -5
its above us somewhere maybe on a different plane of existence... argumentum ad populum(sp?)... again he doesn't want robots he wanst people who CHOOSE him... i believe there is one thing God can't do and that is to uncreate a spirit/soul(could be wrong) so thats why he just had to banish him to earth instead of "snapping his finger"... its called free will.... It isn't 'argument ab populum' when the people in question are arguing from evidence.
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Post by snow on Sept 11, 2017 12:55:07 GMT -5
Thanks for all of your replies. For the replies that are arguing the existence of god, they still don't really answer my questions they kind of skip around my points. Well you can't really blame them for that. There is no proof or evidence to point to. Religion is about strong faith and the ability to ignore cognitive dissonance. If you can't do that you start realizing that it's a lot of wasted energy trying to make sense of things that don't make sense. Time to let it all go about that time.
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Post by continuer on Sept 11, 2017 17:17:28 GMT -5
Report in UK Times newspaper today (11 Sept): "ONE IN THREE SCIENTISTS HAS FAITH IN GOD - Scientists are regarded as sceptical but only a quarter are atheists, figures suggest. Mori questioned more than 1000 people in professions including engineering, medical and technical research industries and found that 31% said they were religious and 60% said they were not. A more detailed breakdown showed that 25% were atheists, 21% were agnostic and 14% said that they were "spiritual but not religious". The breakdown also showed that 13% practised a religious faith while 18% said that they were "non-practising religious". Questioned further, 25% said that science and religion were contradictory and mutually exclusive, while 21% said that they were complimentary and that "one helps reinforce the other". Many more, 44%, agreed that science and religion "cannot be compared as they refer to different things" ...The Scientific and Medical Network said that the survey challenged the assumption that scientists were "hostile to religion and spirituality"."
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 17:23:36 GMT -5
its above us somewhere maybe on a different plane of existence... argumentum ad populum(sp?)... again he doesn't want robots he wanst people who CHOOSE him... i believe there is one thing God can't do and that is to uncreate a spirit/soul(could be wrong) so thats why he just had to banish him to earth instead of "snapping his finger"... its called free will.... It isn't 'argument ab populum' when the people in question are arguing from evidence. sure it is...
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Post by bendle on Sept 11, 2017 17:33:52 GMT -5
It isn't 'argument ab populum' when the people in question are arguing from evidence. sure it is... I could be missing the sarcasm or irony entirely here (in which case- Well done) but argumentum ad populum is defined I believe as that an argument must be true because most/more people believe it to be. It also comes under the heading of fallacy.
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Post by matisse on Sept 11, 2017 18:28:56 GMT -5
I could be missing the sarcasm or irony entirely here (in which case- Well done) but argumentum ad populum is defined I believe as that an argument must be true because most/more people believe it to be. It also comes under the heading of fallacy. Argumentum ab populum is a little known fallacy of arguing from 'few there be that find it'.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2017 21:41:25 GMT -5
Report in UK Times newspaper today (11 Sept): " ONE IN THREE SCIENTISTS HAS FAITH IN GOD - Scientists are regarded as sceptical but only a quarter are atheists, figures suggest. Mori questioned more than 1000 people in professions including engineering, medical and technical research industries and found that 31% said they were religious and 60% said they were not. A more detailed breakdown showed that 25% were atheists, 21% were agnostic and 14% said that they were "spiritual but not religious". The breakdown also showed that 13% practised a religious faith while 18% said that they were "non-practising religious". Questioned further, 25% said that science and religion were contradictory and mutually exclusive, while 21% said that they were complimentary and that "one helps reinforce the other". Many more, 44%, agreed that science and religion "cannot be compared as they refer to different things" ...The Scientific and Medical Network said that the survey challenged the assumption that scientists were "hostile to religion and spirituality"." What is the point you are trying to make here? Matt10
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 11, 2017 22:25:39 GMT -5
It isn't 'argument ab populum' when the people in question are arguing from evidence. sure it is... It's Latin, Wally. It can't mean what you think it does.
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Post by continuer on Sept 12, 2017 2:56:16 GMT -5
Report in UK Times newspaper today (11 Sept): " ONE IN THREE SCIENTISTS HAS FAITH IN GOD - Scientists are regarded as sceptical but only a quarter are atheists, figures suggest. Mori questioned more than 1000 people in professions including engineering, medical and technical research industries and found that 31% said they were religious and 60% said they were not. A more detailed breakdown showed that 25% were atheists, 21% were agnostic and 14% said that they were "spiritual but not religious". The breakdown also showed that 13% practised a religious faith while 18% said that they were "non-practising religious". Questioned further, 25% said that science and religion were contradictory and mutually exclusive, while 21% said that they were complimentary and that "one helps reinforce the other". Many more, 44%, agreed that science and religion "cannot be compared as they refer to different things" ...The Scientific and Medical Network said that the survey challenged the assumption that scientists were "hostile to religion and spirituality"." What is the point you are trying to make here? Matt10 I am not trying to make any point - simply reproducing the result of a UK survey! This thread is about non-belief in God isn't it?
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Post by stevie on Sept 12, 2017 5:18:27 GMT -5
I just feel if God made us, then our end is predetermined. I cannot see where 'free will' comes into it. An all powerful God has to know our ending, if he made us I'm sure.
Then again it still doesn't address the issue of why God did this in the first place, instead of just simply creating a perfect people for himself. If he created the universe, he surely has the power to create humans who are programmed to love and obey him. Why play a game with humans on earth for thousands of years. Just cut out the thousands of years and create a perfect people from the start who will love and serve you without question.
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Post by xna on Sept 12, 2017 7:32:33 GMT -5
I just feel if God made us, then our end is predetermined. I cannot see where 'free will' comes into it. An all powerful God has to know our ending, if he made us I'm sure. Then again it still doesn't address the issue of why God did this in the first place, instead of just simply creating a perfect people for himself. If he created the universe, he surely has the power to create humans who are programmed to love and obey him. Why play a game with humans on earth for thousands of years. Just cut out the thousands of years and create a perfect people from the start who will love and serve you without question. You might relate to this young man's journey as he struggled with all the common questions. www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLB94897B67559111CHis playlist has 22 videos that covers many questions. 0 Overview 1.0 My Christian Life 1.1 Deconversion: The God Concept 1.2 Deconversion: Prayer 1.3 Deconversion: Morality 1.4 Deconversion: Other Christians (A) 1.4 Deconversion: Other Christians (B) 1.5 Deconversion: The Bible (A) 1.5 Deconversion: The Bible (B) 1.6 Deconversion: Personal Relationship (A) 1.6 Deconversion: Personal Relationship (B) 1.7 Deconversion: The End 1.8 Deconversion: Losing God 2.0 Atheism: A New Way of Seeing God 2.1 Atheism: Definitions 2.2 Atheism: Nontheistic Gods 2.3 Atheism: Ingersoll & Mack 2.4 Atheism: Spong 2.5 Atheism: A History of God (A) 2.5 Atheism: A History of God (B) 2.6 Atheism: Evidence
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otto2
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Post by otto2 on Sept 12, 2017 11:56:35 GMT -5
Report in UK Times newspaper today (11 Sept): " ONE IN THREE SCIENTISTS HAS FAITH IN GOD - Scientists are regarded as sceptical but only a quarter are atheists, figures suggest. Mori questioned more than 1000 people in professions including engineering, medical and technical research industries and found that 31% said they were religious and 60% said they were not. A more detailed breakdown showed that 25% were atheists, 21% were agnostic and 14% said that they were "spiritual but not religious". The breakdown also showed that 13% practised a religious faith while 18% said that they were "non-practising religious". Questioned further, 25% said that science and religion were contradictory and mutually exclusive, while 21% said that they were complimentary and that "one helps reinforce the other". Many more, 44%, agreed that science and religion "cannot be compared as they refer to different things" ...The Scientific and Medical Network said that the survey challenged the assumption that scientists were "hostile to religion and spirituality"." Here's an example of one of them (not necessarily in the survey but nevertheless a scientist): Dr Stephen Grocott - Fellow of the Royal Australian Chemical Institute - 'I am afraid that as a scientist I simply cannot say strongly enough that spontaneous generation of life is a chemical nonsense and therefore, I am left with no alternative but to believe that life was created.' (Quoted in John F Ashton - In Six Days: Why 50 Scientists choose to believe in Creation (Green Forest, AR: Master Books, 2001))
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Post by snow on Sept 12, 2017 12:34:51 GMT -5
Report in UK Times newspaper today (11 Sept): " ONE IN THREE SCIENTISTS HAS FAITH IN GOD - Scientists are regarded as sceptical but only a quarter are atheists, figures suggest. Mori questioned more than 1000 people in professions including engineering, medical and technical research industries and found that 31% said they were religious and 60% said they were not. A more detailed breakdown showed that 25% were atheists, 21% were agnostic and 14% said that they were "spiritual but not religious". The breakdown also showed that 13% practised a religious faith while 18% said that they were "non-practising religious". Questioned further, 25% said that science and religion were contradictory and mutually exclusive, while 21% said that they were complimentary and that "one helps reinforce the other". Many more, 44%, agreed that science and religion "cannot be compared as they refer to different things" ...The Scientific and Medical Network said that the survey challenged the assumption that scientists were "hostile to religion and spirituality"." Here's an example of one of them (not necessarily in the survey but nevertheless a scientist): Dr Stephen Grocott - Fellow of the Royal Australian Chemical Institute - 'I am afraid that as a scientist I simply cannot say strongly enough that spontaneous generation of life is a chemical nonsense and therefore, I am left with no alternative but to believe that life was created.' (Quoted in John F Ashton - In Six Days: Why 50 Scientists choose to believe in Creation (Green Forest, AR: Master Books, 2001)) We just don't know is also a valid answer.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2017 15:26:58 GMT -5
Report in UK Times newspaper today (11 Sept): " ONE IN THREE SCIENTISTS HAS FAITH IN GOD - Scientists are regarded as sceptical but only a quarter are atheists, figures suggest. Mori questioned more than 1000 people in professions including engineering, medical and technical research industries and found that 31% said they were religious and 60% said they were not. A more detailed breakdown showed that 25% were atheists, 21% were agnostic and 14% said that they were "spiritual but not religious". The breakdown also showed that 13% practised a religious faith while 18% said that they were "non-practising religious". Questioned further, 25% said that science and religion were contradictory and mutually exclusive, while 21% said that they were complimentary and that "one helps reinforce the other". Many more, 44%, agreed that science and religion "cannot be compared as they refer to different things" ...The Scientific and Medical Network said that the survey challenged the assumption that scientists were "hostile to religion and spirituality"." Here's an example of one of them (not necessarily in the survey but nevertheless a scientist): Dr Stephen Grocott - Fellow of the Royal Australian Chemical Institute - 'I am afraid that as a scientist I simply cannot say strongly enough that spontaneous generation of life is a chemical nonsense and therefore, I am left with no alternative but to believe that life was created.' (Quoted in John F Ashton - In Six Days: Why 50 Scientists choose to believe in Creation (Green Forest, AR: Master Books, 2001)) But created by what or by whom? It takes a hell of a leap from comcliding that spontaneous generation of life is a chemical nonsense to concluding that the only alternative is creation by an entity for which there is no evidence for the existence of, which required a tricky rib removal trick to get the human race off and running and who some four and a half billion years after creating the earth still watches what every one of the current seven billion results of his creation is getting up to in the bedroom every evening. On the scale of chemical nonsense this conclusion must be right up there with the most absurd alternatives. Matt10
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Post by continuer on Sept 12, 2017 16:02:19 GMT -5
I think it depends on whether one has had a spiritual awakening or not. A spiritual awakening is an individual experience which connects one to a power greater than oneself - the consciousness of a power greater than oneself dwelling within which gives an assurance of guidance and a deep feeling of peace and satisfaction. In other words, it is an "experience", not a theory. One difficulty is that most spiritual awakenings are preceded by "faith" (a leap in the dark if you like) - at least that is how it was for me. It is way beyond my tiny brain to explain the detail of the "meaning of life" so I don't exercise myself in matters too great for me. I was planting some seeds recently and the thought struck me "What put something within this seed so that the roots know to grow down and the flower knows to grow up?". Did this happen by chance? I choose to think not but many would disagree!
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Post by xna on Sept 12, 2017 16:11:13 GMT -5
1. Here is the PEW study from 2009 about Scientists and Belief I think it's one of the better ones. Science has not found any evidence of God, but then they don't very often look at belief in a god. 2. Philosophy professors do look at the god question. A questionnaire was sent to 1,972 philosophers at 99 of the world's "leading departments of philosophy" They identified as on the god question by atheism 72.8%theism 14.6%other 12.6%.3. The bible of psychiatric diagnosis (DSM 5) exempts religion from “delusions”, even though it is one.
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otto2
Junior Member
Posts: 59
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Post by otto2 on Sept 13, 2017 4:04:40 GMT -5
Here's an example of one of them (not necessarily in the survey but nevertheless a scientist): Dr Stephen Grocott - Fellow of the Royal Australian Chemical Institute - 'I am afraid that as a scientist I simply cannot say strongly enough that spontaneous generation of life is a chemical nonsense and therefore, I am left with no alternative but to believe that life was created.' (Quoted in John F Ashton - In Six Days: Why 50 Scientists choose to believe in Creation (Green Forest, AR: Master Books, 2001)) But created by what or by whom? It takes a hell of a leap from comcliding that spontaneous generation of life is a chemical nonsense to concluding that the only alternative is creation by an entity for which there is no evidence for the existence of, which required a tricky rib removal trick to get the human race off and running and who some four and a half billion years after creating the earth still watches what every one of the current seven billion results of his creation is getting up to in the bedroom every evening. On the scale of chemical nonsense this conclusion must be right up there with the most absurd alternatives. Matt10 So our scientist says that spontaneous generation of life is a chemical nonsense, and you say that the alternative of a Creator is equal nonsense; then what other alternatives would you suggest?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2017 5:29:48 GMT -5
But created by what or by whom? It takes a hell of a leap from comcliding that spontaneous generation of life is a chemical nonsense to concluding that the only alternative is creation by an entity for which there is no evidence for the existence of, which required a tricky rib removal trick to get the human race off and running and who some four and a half billion years after creating the earth still watches what every one of the current seven billion results of his creation is getting up to in the bedroom every evening. On the scale of chemical nonsense this conclusion must be right up there with the most absurd alternatives. Matt10 So our scientist says that spontaneous generation of life is a chemical nonsense, and you say that the alternative of a Creator is equal nonsense; then what other alternatives would you suggest? No. Of course I didn't say that. But you already knew that. Matt10
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