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Post by nathan on Aug 27, 2017 17:30:35 GMT -5
1) Aug 26, 2017 enuf said: Saying God has 3 parts is not polytheist any more than your body being made up of many parts makes your body more than one body. Another way some people see it is that a family is made up of several members but it's still one family.
I feel it's wrong when Nathan says God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. I see it as each is a part of God. They were separate entities though. There was no sign of God the father when Jesus was God the son on earth. At best it could be said to be two gods as the holy spirit shouldn't even be considered to be a god, but whatever. Just because you worship a group doesn't mean they aren't separate within the group. You can apply whatever name you like to a group but it doesn't make them all one entity. Just a separate entity that makes up the group.
2) Snow wrote: I'm not surprised you don't believe what Nathan says but it's interesting because you both seem to believe in the Trinity. Just have a different way of wrapping your head around something that doesn't make sense in any other form other than polytheism. That was why there was so much reluctance on the part of the group that were monotheist and believed God was the only God in the group and Jesus was his son and not a God. It's hard to sell a concept like the Trinity being monotheistic. Much blood has been shed trying to do so.
~~ NathanB wrote: Snow, you are so awesome.... your understanding on this topic is right on the money! You see, the early church apostolic fathers, had been taught God the Father, Christ the Lord God who later who incarnate as a man Jesus to die for our sins, and the Holy Spirit/God who came down from heaven to be the Overseer of the apostles and his followers in Acts chapter 2, after Jesus ascended back to the Father in heaven.
The early days apostolic fathers who lived after the 12, 72 apostles, and Paul had died, taught them about God the Father, Christ the Lord God, and Holy Spirit/God. So, in the end of the 1st century and 2nd century apostles they came up! with the word to describe the Godhead...... "The Trinity or the Triune God." It's an awesome description! of the Godhead... short and to the point and easy to understand.
It's too bad the Romans bishops, Pope through the centuries have added Mary the Mother of God and other doctrines to make the Trinity and Triune God looks like pagan doctrines.
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Post by xna on Sept 24, 2017 18:30:15 GMT -5
A bad day for the Trinity concept
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Post by CherieKropp on Sept 24, 2017 22:12:37 GMT -5
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Post by dmmichgood on Sept 24, 2017 23:34:56 GMT -5
A bad day for the Trinity concept One more thoughtless ritual in an a attempt to make people "feel spiritual" without any consideration for other life forms!
Even if the doves manage to escape free into the wild blue yonder as the "spirit" that they supposed to represent; -that wild blue yonder isn't always paradise for THEM!
They are out of their natural environment and must complete for survival with other birds who are suited for the that environment.
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Post by Greg on Sept 25, 2017 0:01:45 GMT -5
If Jesus was thought to be God that early after he left, no wonder he never came back.
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Post by joanna on Sept 30, 2017 3:56:48 GMT -5
This book by the biblical scholar Bart Ehrman How Jesus Became God covers the transformation of a man to a god. On the emergence of the Trinity
Christians had a dilemma as soon as they declared that Christ was God. If Christ is God and God the Father is God, doesn't that make two gods? And when you throw the Holy Spirit into the mix, doesn't that make three gods? So aren't Christians polytheists? Christians wanted to insist, no, they're monotheists. Well, if they're monotheists, how can all three be God?
So there are various ways of trying to explain this, and one of the most popular ways ... was called modalism. It's called modalism because it insisted that God existed in three modes — just as I myself at the same time am a son, and a brother and a father, but there's only one of me — well these theologians said: That's what God is like. He's manifest in three persons, but there's only one of him, so he's at the same time father, son and spirit. So he's in three modes of existence, so there's only one of him.Reference
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Post by nathan on Sept 30, 2017 8:11:52 GMT -5
This book by the biblical scholar Bart Ehrman How Jesus Became God covers the transformation of a man to a god. On the emergence of the Trinity
Christians had a dilemma as soon as they declared that Christ was God. If Christ is God and God the Father is God, doesn't that make two gods? And when you throw the Holy Spirit into the mix, doesn't that make three gods? So aren't Christians polytheists? Christians wanted to insist, no, they're monotheists. Well, if they're monotheists, how can all three be God?
So there are various ways of trying to explain this, and one of the most popular ways ... was called modalism. It's called modalism because it insisted that God existed in three modes — just as I myself at the same time am a son, and a brother and a father, but there's only one of me — well these theologians said: That's what God is like. He's manifest in three persons, but there's only one of him, so he's at the same time father, son and spirit. So he's in three modes of existence, so there's only one of him.Reference God the Father is NOT God the Son, God the Son is NOT God the Father, and the Holy Spirit is NOT the Son or the Father. Each being is an individual God. There is ONE Godhead but Three entities Father, Christ and Holy Spirit are working as ONE in Unity and Harmony.
In Genesis 1:26 God/Elohim= Plural said, "Let US create man in OUR image and in OUR likeness."
In John chapters 13-17 Jesus revealed The THREE are ONE in Unity and Harmony... The Father, Christ and Holy Spirit.
I John 5:7-8 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.Christ has always been God. He is Eternal just like God the Father and the Holy Spirit from everlasting to everlasting. Jesus did NOT become God after the resurrection, but he has always been God. John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word/Christ, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. The word El means God in singular form. The word Elohim means God in plural form.
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Post by snow on Sept 30, 2017 13:43:24 GMT -5
This book by the biblical scholar Bart Ehrman How Jesus Became God covers the transformation of a man to a god. On the emergence of the Trinity
Christians had a dilemma as soon as they declared that Christ was God. If Christ is God and God the Father is God, doesn't that make two gods? And when you throw the Holy Spirit into the mix, doesn't that make three gods? So aren't Christians polytheists? Christians wanted to insist, no, they're monotheists. Well, if they're monotheists, how can all three be God?
So there are various ways of trying to explain this, and one of the most popular ways ... was called modalism. It's called modalism because it insisted that God existed in three modes — just as I myself at the same time am a son, and a brother and a father, but there's only one of me — well these theologians said: That's what God is like. He's manifest in three persons, but there's only one of him, so he's at the same time father, son and spirit. So he's in three modes of existence, so there's only one of him.Reference God the Father is NOT God the Son, God the Son is NOT God the Father, and the Holy Spirit is NOT the Son or the Father. Each being is an individual God. There is ONE Godhead but Three entities Father, Christ and Holy Spirit are working as ONE in Unity and Harmony.
In Genesis 1:26 God/Elohim= Plural said, "Let US create man in OUR image and in OUR likeness."
In John chapters 13-17 Jesus revealed The THREE are ONE in Unity and Harmony... The Father, Christ and Holy Spirit.
I John 5:7-8 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.Christ has always been God. He is Eternal just like God the Father and the Holy Spirit from everlasting to everlasting. Jesus did NOT become God after the resurrection, but he has always been God. John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word/Christ, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. The word El means God in singular form. The word Elohim means God in plural form.
That's the way I see the Godhead as three individuals therefore 3 separate Gods. I'm not sure that's how all the Trinity group believe it though. I think they have to say it's 3 in 1, meaning only one God. Otherwise Christianity is polytheist if you are of the Trinity group of believers. I agree with your definition of the Godhead, 3 Gods.
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Post by Grant on Sept 30, 2017 13:58:15 GMT -5
Again Nathan you are putting your spin on things. Trinitarians do not believe in 3 separate God's but believe in one God made up of 3 parts. Trinity is 3 in One. The 3 make up the one God.
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Post by nathan on Sept 30, 2017 14:42:36 GMT -5
Again Nathan you are putting your spin on things. Trinitarians do not believe in 3 separate God's but believe in one God made up of 3 parts. Trinity is 3 in One. The 3 make up the one God. *** when I get back from work I will post the early apostolic fathers teachings on the Trinity so people can read what they taught about this subj. 2000 yrs ago... People have watered it down so much and it has caused a MESS of this topic for 1800 yrs.
If there is ONLY ONE God Then why in the New Test. It says the Father is God. Jesus said in Rev. he is God Almighty. In acts 5 peter called the Holy Spirit God.
If there is one God then why in gen 1:26 Elohim/God said "Let US create man in OUR image and in OUR likeness."
King David knew about the Father, Christ the LORD and Holy Spirit...
So, your One God doesn't make any sense and not correct according to the scriptures when there are MORE than ONE God exist in the Bible....
I hope you don't believe the word God refers ONLY to God the Father! and NOT to the Christ or Holy Spirit as well.
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Post by Grant on Sept 30, 2017 14:46:46 GMT -5
So you believe in 3 God's, Nathan? The Bible says there is one God. The original Trinity believed by the Catholic Church was that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one being. The Trinity these days or should I say the ones which the Protestants believe is that they are 3 separate beings, each being a part and making up the one God.
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Post by nathan on Sept 30, 2017 15:19:51 GMT -5
So you believe in 3 God's, Nathan? The Bible says there is one God. The original Trinity believed by the Catholic Church was that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one being. The Trinity these days or should I say the ones which the Protestants believe is that they are 3 separate beings, each being a part and making up the one God. ** Not the early apostolic church fathers in the second and third century....
There are so many interpretations of what are the doctrines of the Trinity that make your heads spins.
I believe ONE Godhead- 3 separate supreme beings; the Father, Christ the Lord God and Holy Spirit.
Each supreme being is FULLY God. God the Father is fully God. Christ the Lord God is Fully God and man. The Holy Spirit is fully God. Only Christ is fully God and Man in One body.
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Post by Grant on Sept 30, 2017 15:47:14 GMT -5
Each is a part of God. Not each is God. There are only 2 versions of the Trinity which I've heard of unless you're looking online at one of your self appointed pastors who are not pastors at all but just call themselves one online.
The confusion is yours as it's quite simple to me.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 30, 2017 16:28:35 GMT -5
The "concept" of a trinity did not originate in Christianity. It is an adaptation of a Pagan perception of deities that slipped into Christian doctrine with the emergence of Christianity as the official church of the Roman Empire.
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Post by nathan on Sept 30, 2017 17:54:07 GMT -5
The "concept" of a trinity did not originate in Christianity. It is an adaptation of a Pagan perception of deities that slipped into Christian doctrine with the emergence of Christianity as the official church of the Roman Empire. The Trinity: Or the Godhead, The Father, Christ and Holy Spirit are eternal and everlasting or exist before anything was created... The Trinity existed in the Old (Genesis 1) and New Testament... How can the Trinity doctrine adopted by the pagans or Christianity?
How about the Pagans got the Trinity doctrine from knowing God the Father, Christ the Lord God and Holy Spirit?
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 30, 2017 18:23:40 GMT -5
The "concept" of a trinity did not originate in Christianity. It is an adaptation of a Pagan perception of deities that slipped into Christian doctrine with the emergence of Christianity as the official church of the Roman Empire. The Trinity: Or the Godhead, The Father, Christ and Holy Spirit are eternal and everlasting or exist before anything was created... The Trinity existed in the Old (Genesis 1) and New Testament... How can the Trinity doctrine adopted by the pagans or Christianity?
How about the Pagans got the Trinity doctrine from knowing God the Father, Christ the Lord God and Holy Spirit?
It comes from the time before there ever were either Jews or Christians, just Pagans.
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Post by nathan on Sept 30, 2017 19:00:48 GMT -5
The Trinity: Or the Godhead, The Father, Christ and Holy Spirit are eternal and everlasting or exist before anything was created... The Trinity existed in the Old (Genesis 1) and New Testament... How can the Trinity doctrine adopted by the pagans or Christianity?
How about the Pagans got the Trinity doctrine from knowing God the Father, Christ the Lord God and Holy Spirit?
It comes from the time before there ever were either Jews or Christians, just Pagans. The Trinity came before the pagans existed or created.
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Post by BobWilliston on Sept 30, 2017 19:54:34 GMT -5
It comes from the time before there ever were either Jews or Christians, just Pagans. The Trinity came before the pagans existed or created.
Yes. I understand that the monkeys passed it on to the Pagans.
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Post by Greg on Sept 30, 2017 21:00:09 GMT -5
The Trinity came before the pagans existed or created.
Yes. I understand that the monkeys passed it on to the Pagans. Hear nothing, see nothing, and speak nothing monkeys?
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