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Post by CherieKropp on May 18, 2017 12:43:29 GMT -5
Before the new 1987 Ed. of Hymns Old & New came out, the Workers gave some Friends the music & words for the new hymns with new tunes that were included in the new hymnbook.
Some would gather together around a piano and practice the new hymns. There were tape recordings made of the music and of people singing the new hymns.
THEN, the Workers nixed the tapes. Said to destroy them and not give them out.
What were the Workers reasons as to why the tape recordings should not be used anymore?
Thanks! CK
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Post by learning on May 18, 2017 14:26:39 GMT -5
I was told in the early and mid 90's that there were "copyright issues" with recording the hymns. For years we felt somewhat guilty about having hymns on tape but always just kept it kind of quiet. "Copyright issues" were also cited just 2 years ago relating to electronic copies of the hymns on iPads, iPhones, etc.
Relating to the electronic copies of the hymns, a professing lawyer got involved and resolved that due to how the electronic copies were being used that there were in fact no copyright issues.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2017 16:08:37 GMT -5
Mike Fafever made some tapes. He used to be in the work and was a good singer. I heard that some workers left the work during the hymn book revision meetings. And this was from someone deep in the system.
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 18, 2017 16:18:23 GMT -5
Mike Fafever made some tapes. He used to be in the work and was a good singer. I heard that some workers left the work during the hymn book revision meetings. And this was from someone deep in the system. Why did they leave the work?
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2017 16:20:27 GMT -5
Disagreement over how Eldon was running things, probably. When people are working on a project, tempers can flare.
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Post by CherieKropp on May 18, 2017 17:14:45 GMT -5
Mike Fafever made some tapes. He used to be in the work and was a good singer. I heard that some workers left the work during the hymn book revision meetings. And this was from someone deep in the system. Why did they leave the work? Well for sure, two Workers did: Joel Boyd and Kathy Dunnett, were married soon after the project ended.
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Post by BobWilliston on May 18, 2017 17:48:26 GMT -5
The admonition by the workers not to record people singing the hymns was nothing more than their misunderstanding of their newly acquired concept of "copyright".
Making copies of the originally published music (words and/or notes) can be a copyright violation. Church groups are common offenders in this respect.
Singing any of the hymns is not a copyright violation, recording people singing the hymns is not a copyright violation. Distributing copies of the people singing the hymns may be a violation.
Making copies of copyrighted music and charging for the copies is called bootlegging, and that is very bad. That is what brought about the urgency to make a new hymn book, and assure that they secured copy permission for every hymn, and discard the ones they could not get permission to copy.
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Post by Gene on May 18, 2017 18:25:41 GMT -5
Hundreds of the Mike F tapes were circulated in Australia. When the workers realised this was occurring over here they went ape about it. They weren't worried about the potential copyright issues - they were worried about people having cassette players etc. Gordon McNab (then Head Worker of NSW) spoke at every convention in NSW and asked they be destroyed. One junior worker then took it a bit further and said from the platform "please do what Uncle Gordon asked you to do - burn the tapes - so that the smoke of the sacrifice would rise to God as a sweet smelling savour..." There were a lot of nudges and eye rolls in the pews...and from the talk afterwards I think more copies of the tapes were likely made and distributed. Oh my. I'm embarrassed for the poor soul (the junior worker) just thinking about it. In retrospect, it's quite remarkable that not once in my 10 years in the work did a companion at a gospel meeting or an older worker at a convention ask me in advance to describe my topic and what I intended to say about it. That's quite a stark difference from the corporate world. The senior person in the corporate world generally -- and ALWAYS with a high-profile/ large audience event like a convention or special meeting -- would want to review and rehearse with the junior before the presentation. Perhaps the senior workers really did believe that they should stay out of the way and rely on the Holy Spirit to guide the junior?
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Post by sharingtheriches on May 18, 2017 18:40:52 GMT -5
Hundreds of the Mike F tapes were circulated in Australia. When the workers realised this was occurring over here they went ape about it. They weren't worried about the potential copyright issues - they were worried about people having cassette players etc. Gordon McNab (then Head Worker of NSW) spoke at every convention in NSW and asked they be destroyed. One junior worker then took it a bit further and said from the platform "please do what Uncle Gordon asked you to do - burn the tapes - so that the smoke of the sacrifice would rise to God as a sweet smelling savour..." There were a lot of nudges and eye rolls in the pews...and from the talk afterwards I think more copies of the tapes were likely made and distributed. Oh my. I'm embarrassed for the poor soul (the junior worker) just thinking about it. In retrospect, it's quite remarkable that not once in my 10 years in the work did a companion at a gospel meeting or an older worker at a convention ask me in advance to describe my topic and what I intended to say about it. That's quite a stark difference from the corporate world. The senior person in the corporate world generally -- and ALWAYS with a high-profile/ large audience event like a convention or special meeting -- would want to review and rehearse with the junior before the presentation. Perhaps the senior workers really did believe that they should stay out of the way and rely on the Holy Spirit to guide the junior? A family member said they were asked by elder companion about their topic for mtgs. I can't remember if it was for gospel mtgs only, but think it was. And after they'd been in the work past five years had a companion who not only asked the topic but had told them they had only five minutes in which to speak.
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Post by Gene on May 18, 2017 18:49:53 GMT -5
Oh my. I'm embarrassed for the poor soul (the junior worker) just thinking about it. In retrospect, it's quite remarkable that not once in my 10 years in the work did a companion at a gospel meeting or an older worker at a convention ask me in advance to describe my topic and what I intended to say about it. That's quite a stark difference from the corporate world. The senior person in the corporate world generally -- and ALWAYS with a high-profile/ large audience event like a convention or special meeting -- would want to review and rehearse with the junior before the presentation. Perhaps the senior workers really did believe that they should stay out of the way and rely on the Holy Spirit to guide the junior? A family member said they were asked by elder companion about their topic for mtgs. I can't remember if it was for gospel mtgs only, but think it was. And after they'd been in the work past five years had a companion who not only asked the topic but had told them they had only five minutes in which to speak. Interesting. I have no idea whether my experience was the norm for younger workers. Maybe your family member's experience was the norm!
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Post by Pragmatic on May 18, 2017 22:20:35 GMT -5
I remember those tapes doing the rounds...I found them rather boring. To be honest, I find most of the current Hymns are quite boring, very little Praise. With some, by the time you've sung all five verses, you've repeated the same tune, apart from the ending note 15 times! And all acapella, groan. Give me a Gaither Group Alpha and Omega, any day.
I can't recall the workers trying to put a lid on the tapes, or the devices, but that's not to say it didn't happen.
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Post by PrueBert on May 18, 2017 23:57:53 GMT -5
quote - I find most of the current Hymns are quite boring, very little Praise. Pragmatic.
You guys endless AMAZE with the unsubstantiated and dishonest claims you make on this board. You will get away with it here because there's no intellectual honesty, and you have an alias, and don't need to make your claims to anyone in person who can ask, like, simple questions.
I opened my hymn book to the first hymn, first verse, to see if it praised God.
Let's read together:
Tell me the story of Jesus... write on my heart every word...most precious... sweetest that ever was heard...angels welcomed his birth... glory to God in the highest...
Sounds like praise to me. I am sorry that bores you. You want entertainment, not worship.
Q - If this isn't "praise" then what is it? Q - How would YOU have worded that verse? Or maybe you are into Chris Cornell style music - music that did him a whole lot of good, apparently.
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Post by Pragmatic on May 19, 2017 0:22:21 GMT -5
I didn't say none, I said very little...you have twisted my words, and that is not honest. Out of 400 + hymns, how many are devoid of praise, and more about "The Way", or of how low our estate is. These comments are not mine alone, but echoed by young people who have been exposed to other hymns. To suggest that words like in Hymn 1 bore me is also dishonest. That is not what I said.
Where is How Great Thou Art? Amazing Grace? Glorious Impossible? He did it all for me? In the Garden? Now is the time to worship? They are not entertainment, they are worship.
Trying to suggest that pointing out some negatives of the 1987 hymnal audio and lyrics is liking "Cornell style" is also disingenuous. I do not like that type of music. However, Cornell was a typical emotional artist who came from a dark place. He had depression in his younger days. The music is often a product of the artist;s inner being, not the other way round. To suggest that his music "did him a lot of good" is a shocking comment about a tragic event of a sick person. Sick people do not make Well decisions.
FWIW: The workers are at our place, and we'll be doing some Hymns tonight, but with Guitars and other instruments, and daughter on the drums. The workers love it and can't get enough.
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Post by dmmichgood on May 19, 2017 1:04:48 GMT -5
quote - I find most of the current Hymns are quite boring, very little Praise. Pragmatic.
You guys endless AMAZE with the unsubstantiated and dishonest claims you make on this board. You will get away with it here because there's no intellectual honesty, and you have an alias, and don't need to make your claims to anyone in person who can ask, like, simple questions. When is an "opinion" considered "unsubstantiated and dishonest?"
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Post by ellie on May 19, 2017 1:18:55 GMT -5
I opened my hymn book to the first hymn, first verse, to see if it praised God. Let's read together: Tell me the story of Jesus... write on my heart every word...most precious... sweetest that ever was heard...angels welcomed his birth... glory to God in the highest...Sounds like praise to me. I am sorry that bores you. You want entertainment, not worship. Q - If this isn't "praise" then what is it? If the words are sung in a manner devoid of zeal is the singing still praise?
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Post by fixit on May 19, 2017 3:06:07 GMT -5
I remember those tapes doing the rounds...I found them rather boring. To be honest, I find most of the current Hymns are quite boring, very little Praise. With some, by the time you've sung all five verses, you've repeated the same tune, apart from the ending note 15 times! And all acapella, groan. Give me a Gaither Group Alpha and Omega, any day. I can't recall the workers trying to put a lid on the tapes, or the devices, but that's not to say it didn't happen. Yes, it did happen. I thought the problem was that it would lead to consuming other recorded music.
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Post by speak on May 19, 2017 4:17:55 GMT -5
I remember those tapes doing the rounds...I found them rather boring. To be honest, I find most of the current Hymns are quite boring, very little Praise. With some, by the time you've sung all five verses, you've repeated the same tune, apart from the ending note 15 times! And all acapella, groan. Give me a Gaither Group Alpha and Omega, any day. I can't recall the workers trying to put a lid on the tapes, or the devices, but that's not to say it didn't happen. Maybe you don't sing them then. Maybe you could sing what you want to sing and others sing what they want to sing. Personally I find our hymns inspirational.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2017 4:44:58 GMT -5
A family member said they were asked by elder companion about their topic for mtgs. I can't remember if it was for gospel mtgs only, but think it was. And after they'd been in the work past five years had a companion who not only asked the topic but had told them they had only five minutes in which to speak. Interesting. I have no idea whether my experience was the norm for younger workers. Maybe your family member's experience was the norm! I personally see nothing wrong with older and senior workers guiding younger and new workers in this manner. Younger workers need all the encouragement and support at that stage of the journey. Some might lack experience, and courage?? at that stage. No big deal at all.
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Post by BobWilliston on May 19, 2017 16:01:17 GMT -5
Interesting. I have no idea whether my experience was the norm for younger workers. Maybe your family member's experience was the norm! I personally see nothing wrong with older and senior workers guiding younger and new workers in this manner. Younger workers need all the encouragement and support at that stage of the journey. Some might lack experience, and courage?? at that stage. No big deal at all.
Considering the positions the younger ones are being trained for, I think you're right.
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Post by CherieKropp on May 21, 2017 15:50:45 GMT -5
Thanks to someone who provided me with a copy of the answer to my question. Below is a warning from Norman Henderson, from England, at Apoka, Florida Convention in 1989 copies and tapes being made of the new (1987) Hymnbook. Bold and underlined words are copied "as is" from original. Click Here to view original document in TTT Photo Gallery.
Norman Henderson - Apopka, FL - Convention 1989
It has been called to our attention about tapes and copies being made of the New Hymn Book. Please, read the first page of our New Hymn Book opposite Hymn number 1. Recording hymns on tapes for sale or not for sale is an infringement on the copyright. No one has any right to give permission to reproduce or put hymns on tapes. These could get into the hands of unscrupulous people. I feel responsible because we in England hold the copyright. If we have tapes in cars and in homes, they could get so mechanical, we cannot really appreciate them. Sense of responsibility.Responsibility rests with those who should be the guides. It is wrong for anybody to make copies of a book or pages of a book or tapes, that is COPYRIGHT. Every person is responsible. Anything not in line with the ancient mountains must be corrected. God's people must be taught in the homes. The most precious thing of earth, is the fellowship of God's people in every land. * * * * * * * * * *
Note to workers: Please let friends in your area read this when you have opportunity. (M.K.)
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Post by elizabethcoleman on May 25, 2017 6:03:59 GMT -5
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Post by elizabethcoleman on May 25, 2017 6:06:07 GMT -5
PS - not quite exhaustive. Not all composers/named tunes are listed.
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Post by Someone Who Cares on Feb 19, 2024 23:50:51 GMT -5
This letter is incorrect, for what it's worth. Just another example of controlling the people.
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