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Post by irvinegrey on May 29, 2016 14:36:49 GMT -5
It seems that Monaghan, one of the six Irish conventions is closing. If this is the case that leaves Fermanagh as the only convention in the West. A number of years ago another convention closed that was not all that far from Monaghan, the Carnteel convention that had a strong association with the Reid family that Wilson Reid was related to.
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Post by emerald on May 30, 2016 7:56:16 GMT -5
Monaghan is not in the west, its in the east. North east of the south to be exact. And yes, it's closing on Health and Safety grounds, but I'm not sure a decision has been made as to it being permanent. Carnteel was closed because there was no need for a small convention so close to Monaghan and facilities were poor, comparitively. It would have been closed years before only the workers kept it open until Wilson Reid died. Nothing sinister about its closing at all.
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Post by emerald on May 30, 2016 8:01:54 GMT -5
I should say the decision to close the convention was made by the HSE (Health and Safety Executive) and not by the workers. I'm told a boiler went on fire and the insurers were called as it would have to be replaced before convention. The insurers then called the HSE, there was an inspection and the order given on Friday that the convention could not go ahead.
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Post by irvinegrey on May 31, 2016 15:40:16 GMT -5
From Belfast the Fermanagh convention is to the West; Monaghan to the North West and it's closure means that the west of Ireland has no convention close by and will need to go to Offaly.
Why the reluctance to bring the convention grounds up to an acceptable standard to satisfy the HSE or could it be that because of falling numbers Fermanagh is sufficient?
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Post by BobWilliston on May 31, 2016 15:49:12 GMT -5
From Belfast the Fermanagh convention is to the West; Monaghan to the North West and it's closure means that the west of Ireland has no convention close by and will need to go to Offaly. Why the reluctance to bring the convention grounds up to an acceptable standard to satisfy the HSE or could it be that because of falling numbers Fermanagh is sufficient? Who said anything about reluctance?
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Post by emerald on May 31, 2016 16:42:25 GMT -5
From Belfast the Fermanagh convention is to the West; Monaghan to the North West and it's closure means that the west of Ireland has no convention close by and will need to go to Offaly. Why the reluctance to bring the convention grounds up to an acceptable standard to satisfy the HSE or could it be that because of falling numbers Fermanagh is sufficient? Irvine, look at the map. Monaghan is on the east of Ireland, nowhere near the west. Any friends in the west (there are very few and are mainly in Sligo) are much closer to Fermanagh. Which convention is in Offaly? We have Carrick in Co. Laois. There is no talk of reluctance to do anything and to suggest otherwise is purely speculation. The HSE inspection was on Friday and the workers were completely unprepared for the instruction to cancel the convention. From what I hear, the only issue is the cookhouse and the decision to upgrade or not, to an acceptable standard is something that will likely be taken when the conventions are over for the year. I know you've written a book about the meetings and have decided that the numbers are falling, but convention attendance has held up pretty well over weekends at all six conventions.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2016 5:56:28 GMT -5
Yes, Monaghan is closing - it was closing anyway, but the boiler issue has just brought the decision forward by one year.
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Post by emerald on Jun 1, 2016 9:49:24 GMT -5
Irvine, look at the map. Monaghan is on the east of Ireland, nowhere near the west. Any friends in the west (there are very few and are mainly in Sligo) are much closer to Fermanagh. Which convention is in Offaly? We have Carrick in Co. Laois. There is no talk of reluctance to do anything and to suggest otherwise is purely speculation. The HSE inspection was on Friday and the workers were completely unprepared for the instruction to cancel the convention. From what I hear, the only issue is the cookhouse and the decision to upgrade or not, to an acceptable standard is something that will likely be taken when the conventions are over for the year. I know you've written a book about the meetings and have decided that the numbers are falling, but convention attendance has held up pretty well over weekends at all six conventions. I'm taking it that Irvine's "west" is west of Belfast whereas your west is Sligo. It's a bit similar to me saying in Sydney that someone lives out west. I would mean western Sydney - 60kms away, whereas others would take it to mean Western Australia - many thousands of kilometres away. We spent a few weeks travelling around Ireland in 2010 and found out that west could be 50 kilometres away and that a stack of people that we talked to in the Republic had never been to Northern Ireland. We had a great time - lovely scenery and people and caught up some of my wife's relatives - some of whom are professing. I saw on another board that someone had written that Irish conventions were a bit run down and hadn't really been updated to acceptable standards. I guess this will result in a review of all the convention grounds and an upgrade program will be undertaken. That's a good thing for the health and safety of those who attend. There was only ever one convention in the west and that's Fermanagh. There's nowhere east of Belfast. Irvine's geography is very poor. Monaghan convention is about 28 miles from the east coast and 168 miles from the west as the crow flies. That puts Monaghan in the east. Irvine is trying to suggest the meetings are struggling, they're having to close places due to lack of numbers, but perhaps he might like to tell us how the Baptist church is doing in Monaghan? I made it my business to contact a Monaghan resident and I've been told the Baptists have stagnated. The only church growing there is the Elim church. As for saying the Irish conventions are a bit run down, that not entirely true. There's been a lot of money invested in some areas and more planned. It is true to say that there was an effort made to keep the conventions as a temporary fixture, not like many of the fancy grounds worldwide. The only criticism at Monaghan was the catering facilities. There weren't any other health and safety issues as there'd been modifications made in recent years.
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Post by howitis on Jun 1, 2016 14:49:07 GMT -5
Funny isn't it.....when upgrades are done or buildings built...it's labelled as 'extravagant' and there's talk about 'no buildings built by hands', if the people try to use what is available and improvise, it's 'run down'.....the bottom line is facilities now have legal requirements and regulations that need to be heeded.
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Post by irvinegrey on Jun 2, 2016 6:49:50 GMT -5
I'm taking it that Irvine's "west" is west of Belfast whereas your west is Sligo. It's a bit similar to me saying in Sydney that someone lives out west. I would mean western Sydney - 60kms away, whereas others would take it to mean Western Australia - many thousands of kilometres away. We spent a few weeks travelling around Ireland in 2010 and found out that west could be 50 kilometres away and that a stack of people that we talked to in the Republic had never been to Northern Ireland. We had a great time - lovely scenery and people and caught up some of my wife's relatives - some of whom are professing. I saw on another board that someone had written that Irish conventions were a bit run down and hadn't really been updated to acceptable standards. I guess this will result in a review of all the convention grounds and an upgrade program will be undertaken. That's a good thing for the health and safety of those who attend. There was only ever one convention in the west and that's Fermanagh. There's nowhere east of Belfast. Irvine's geography is very poor. Monaghan convention is about 28 miles from the east coast and 168 miles from the west as the crow flies. That puts Monaghan in the east. Irvine is trying to suggest the meetings are struggling, they're having to close places due to lack of numbers, but perhaps he might like to tell us how the Baptist church is doing in Monaghan? I made it my business to contact a Monaghan resident and I've been told the Baptists have stagnated. The only church growing there is the Elim church. As for saying the Irish conventions are a bit run down, that not entirely true. There's been a lot of money invested in some areas and more planned. It is true to say that there was an effort made to keep the conventions as a temporary fixture, not like many of the fancy grounds worldwide. The only criticism at Monaghan was the catering facilities. There weren't any other health and safety issues as there'd been modifications made in recent years. Indeed the Elim church and a few others are growing in Monaghan. They are growing through conversions and not proselytizing. There is no Baptist Church in Monaghan but there is one in Monaghan South Carolina! The convention is Carrick Co Laois not Offaly. The Irish Tourist Board is a good guide as to the layout of the country and their website states: 'If it is a leisurely or action packed holiday you require then you can be guaranteed that the counties of the North West of Ireland including Cavan, Donegal, Leitrim, Monaghan, Mayo, Roscommon and Sligo can provide for your every need.' Maybe Emerald needs to let them know that they are wrong putting Monaghan in the North West.
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Post by howitis on Jun 2, 2016 15:30:32 GMT -5
I think a 'boiler' issue would be more an injury risk than an infectious risk. Yes many deaths occurred at the time of that convention, both in and out of the 2x2's, as is the case when you have epidemics of disease and people gathered together.
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Post by howitis on Jun 3, 2016 2:21:02 GMT -5
Typhoid I believe, which is transmitted by a human carrier through food or water. No, not that many died and many did recover, those that attended the convention received a vaccine of some sort, which stopped it spreading further, which was good. Those that died were misdiagnosed by the treating doctor at the hospital, once proper diagnosis was made, proper treatment was administered and no more deaths occurred.
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Post by howitis on Jun 3, 2016 4:10:38 GMT -5
Yes, that was sad, for them all some of them are still alive.....great people:-)
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Post by CherieKropp on Jun 3, 2016 10:46:26 GMT -5
Typhoid I believe, which is transmitted by a human carrier through food or water. No, not that many died and many did recover, those that attended the convention received a vaccine of some sort, which stopped it spreading further, which was good. Those that died were misdiagnosed by the treating doctor at the hospital, once proper diagnosis was made, proper treatment was administered and no more deaths occurred. When did this tragedy happen and where? This is the first I've heard of it. Save
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Post by emerald on Jun 3, 2016 13:06:15 GMT -5
There was only ever one convention in the west and that's Fermanagh. There's nowhere east of Belfast. Irvine's geography is very poor. Monaghan convention is about 28 miles from the east coast and 168 miles from the west as the crow flies. That puts Monaghan in the east. Irvine is trying to suggest the meetings are struggling, they're having to close places due to lack of numbers, but perhaps he might like to tell us how the Baptist church is doing in Monaghan? I made it my business to contact a Monaghan resident and I've been told the Baptists have stagnated. The only church growing there is the Elim church. As for saying the Irish conventions are a bit run down, that not entirely true. There's been a lot of money invested in some areas and more planned. It is true to say that there was an effort made to keep the conventions as a temporary fixture, not like many of the fancy grounds worldwide. The only criticism at Monaghan was the catering facilities. There weren't any other health and safety issues as there'd been modifications made in recent years. Indeed the Elim church and a few others are growing in Monaghan. They are growing through conversions and not proselytizing. There is no Baptist Church in Monaghan but there is one in Monaghan South Carolina! The convention is Carrick Co Laois not Offaly. The Irish Tourist Board is a good guide as to the layout of the country and their website states: 'If it is a leisurely or action packed holiday you require then you can be guaranteed that the counties of the North West of Ireland including Cavan, Donegal, Leitrim, Monaghan, Mayo, Roscommon and Sligo can provide for your every need.' Maybe Emerald needs to let them know that they are wrong putting Monaghan in the North West. That's an administrative area, BMW. Monaghan is still in the east. And since you think Monaghan is South Carolina, it really seems you have trouble with geography. What makes you say other churches aren't proselytising?
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Post by irvinegrey on Jun 3, 2016 15:37:58 GMT -5
Monaghan church South Carolina is real enough and not poor geography on my part. www.monaghanbaptist.org/ Proselytizing is what the 2x2 movement does!
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Post by emerald on Jun 3, 2016 18:46:17 GMT -5
Monaghan church South Carolina is real enough and not poor geography on my part. www.monaghanbaptist.org/ Proselytizing is what the 2x2 movement does! Some other churches proselytise. It's not unique to the meetings. So what about the Baptist church in Monaghan. You keep going on about Baptist churches in America and whatever way you twist your geography, America is not in Ireland.
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Post by irvinegrey on Jun 4, 2016 2:21:08 GMT -5
Monaghan church South Carolina is real enough and not poor geography on my part. www.monaghanbaptist.org/ Proselytizing is what the 2x2 movement does! Some other churches proselytise. It's not unique to the meetings. So what about the Baptist church in Monaghan. You keep going on about Baptist churches in America and whatever way you twist your geography, America is not in Ireland. I am really taken by the profundity of your statement, 'America is not in Ireland.' I am glad you pointed that out! Monaghan Ireland does not have a Baptist Church. As for 'the meetings' proselytizing they are not attracting many new converts since I hear that there are many leaving including a few big family names! Your expression, 'the meetings' brought back some memories of my childhood of growing up in Fermanagh since this term was generally used among insiders and outsiders.
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Post by irvinegrey on Jun 4, 2016 2:26:54 GMT -5
Yes, Monaghan is closing - it was closing anyway, but the boiler issue has just brought the decision forward by one year. Was the planned closure because of dwindling numbers? Changed times from the halcyon days of the 1930s to the 1970s when Ireland fielded many more conventions!
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Post by emerald on Jun 4, 2016 9:58:55 GMT -5
Some other churches proselytise. It's not unique to the meetings. So what about the Baptist church in Monaghan. You keep going on about Baptist churches in America and whatever way you twist your geography, America is not in Ireland. I am really taken by the profundity of your statement, 'America is not in Ireland.' I am glad you pointed that out! Monaghan Ireland does not have a Baptist Church. As for 'the meetings' proselytizing they are not attracting many new converts since I hear that there are many leaving including a few big family names! Your expression, 'the meetings' brought back some memories of my childhood of growing up in Fermanagh since this term was generally used among insiders and outsiders. So you're telling me the Baptist church in Monaghan has closed. Is that because of dwindling numbers too?
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Post by Grant on Jun 4, 2016 13:29:36 GMT -5
Irvine said there is not a Baptist Church there, he did not say it had closed. How can something close if there was not one there?
I see you had prejudged Grey probably because he had written the book which shows in your attitude.
He was obviously joking when he said about the Monaghan Baptist Church in the USA.
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Post by irvinegrey on Jun 4, 2016 16:18:42 GMT -5
Irvine said there is not a Baptist Church there, he did not say it had closed. How can something close if there was not one there? I see you had prejudged Grey probably because he had written the book which shows in your attitude. He was obviously joking when he said about the Monaghan Baptist Church in the USA. A two by two joke is no laughing matter
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hberry
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Post by hberry on Jun 4, 2016 18:05:10 GMT -5
Irvine said there is not a Baptist Church there, he did not say it had closed. How can something close if there was not one there? I see you had prejudged Grey probably because he had written the book which shows in your attitude. He was obviously joking when he said about the Monaghan Baptist Church in the USA. LOL. I am glad to hear that there was no Baptist church that could not close because it did not exist in the part of America that is not in Ireland. Did I get that right? I'm lovin' the dialog
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2016 18:29:23 GMT -5
This part of America that is not in Ireland, would it be in the east of America or the west?
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hberry
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Post by hberry on Jun 4, 2016 18:35:05 GMT -5
This part of America that is not in Ireland, would it be in the east of America or the west? Well, it depends. Is our reference point Belfast or Los Angeles?
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Post by emerald on Jun 5, 2016 8:25:07 GMT -5
All very amusing, but as I said, I was told the Baptist church in Monaghan has stagnated. That means there was a church there at one time. Irvine Grey says there isn't one, that would suggest the church is now closed.
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Post by emerald on Jun 5, 2016 9:22:12 GMT -5
Irvine said there is not a Baptist Church there, he did not say it had closed. How can something close if there was not one there? I see you had prejudged Grey probably because he had written the book which shows in your attitude. He was obviously joking when he said about the Monaghan Baptist Church in the USA. Like the way Irvine Grey prejudged the convention was closing due to "falling numbers"? Yes, you're probably right.
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Post by irvinegrey on Jun 8, 2016 15:54:50 GMT -5
Irvine said there is not a Baptist Church there, he did not say it had closed. How can something close if there was not one there? I see you had prejudged Grey probably because he had written the book which shows in your attitude. He was obviously joking when he said about the Monaghan Baptist Church in the USA. Like the way Irvine Grey prejudged the convention was closing due to "falling numbers"? Yes, you're probably right. I can confirm there NEVER was a Baptist Church in Monaghan Ireland so there wasn't one there to stagnate, as you suggest. As the closure of Monaghan another post writes: 'Yes, Monaghan is closing - it was closing anyway, but the boiler issue has just brought the decision forward by one year.' So if closure was on the cards, what other reason could there be for that except falling numbers? After all you have told us that Carnteel closed because it was a small convention and would have closed earlier except that workers kept it open until Wilson Reid died. To satisfy a worker who spent most of his time in Africa is hardly a valid reason to keep a failing convention running!
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