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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2016 18:53:05 GMT -5
If godliness means being like God (or trying to be)...what clothes does God wear and who makes them ?......just thinking out loud... no proof but I've always imagined him in a long robe with cloak and a crown...and God can make them with a thought... |
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Post by ellie on May 5, 2016 18:58:45 GMT -5
If godliness means being like God (or trying to be)...what clothes does God wear and who makes them ?......just thinking out loud... no proof but I've always imagined him in a long robe with cloak and a crown...and God can make them with a thought... Not like Michaelangelo's David then? |
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Post by Roselyn T on May 5, 2016 19:53:16 GMT -5
I confess to an inability to articulate a definition comprehensive enough that it can't have holes poked in it. So feel free to poke holes or to help me craft a better definition. The world consists of those who do not belong to the kingdom of God. I can do no better than to point to the words of my Lord and Saviour, who said the following: and of his apostle, who wrote under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit: Ok maybe a more direct question, do you feel that the F&W are the only "right way" or the only group of people that are right ?  , not sure if you seen this, maybe you have answered & I missed it ! |
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Post by Roselyn T on May 5, 2016 20:02:40 GMT -5
I know this thread is largely focussed on dress but Jesus didn't focus on that at all. He was far more focussed on issues like loving money etc and where that would lead. I think the Bible teaches clearly about the challenges that we will face with world, flesh and devil. We see that in the three types of unproductive soil in the Sower and seed parable and in what Paul had to say in Ephesians 2: As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. As Christians we definitely need to stand out from the crowd but not by wearing black stockings To say that Jesus did not focus on dress is a diversion. The stark public immorality of our modern world was not known in the times and places where Jesus walked the earth. Something close may or may not have been common in certain Roman cities, but certainly not in Judea and the surrounding areas. Jesus taught very strongly and severely against sin in the sermon on the mount and elsewhere. He told sinners to repent, to "go, and sin no more". If Jesus is not recorded as mentioning a specific sin, that does not mean he does not care about that sin and we are free to do it while claiming to love him. Further, Jesus did teach clearly against sins that are closely related to the way people dress. Is the way you dress an area of your life about which you believe your Lord does not care? If he knows the number of the hairs of our head, I believe he does care how his people dress. A man or woman who dresses in a worldly way is to that extent not letting the light of Christ shine in the world. Parents who dress their children inappropriately are teaching their children to conform themselves to the world and encouraging immorality. The verse you quote from Ephesians is very good for this thread and shows clearly that believers were formerly dead in sin while they walked in the ways of the world and now we are called to a new life in Christ, not to continue walking in the ways of the world and following the standards of the world, but seeking to dedicate all things to Christ and serve him with every thought and word and deed. " A man or woman who dresses in a worldly way is to that extent not letting the light of Christ shine in the world. Parents who dress their children inappropriately are teaching their children to conform themselves to the world and encouraging immorality." calleduntoliberty, exactly what is dressing in a worldly way ? Your opinion of what is worldly maybe a lot different to others, so in that case who is right ? |
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Post by ellie on May 5, 2016 22:39:43 GMT -5
I know this thread is largely focussed on dress but Jesus didn't focus on that at all. He was far more focussed on issues like loving money etc and where that would lead. I think the Bible teaches clearly about the challenges that we will face with world, flesh and devil. We see that in the three types of unproductive soil in the Sower and seed parable and in what Paul had to say in Ephesians 2: As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath. As Christians we definitely need to stand out from the crowd but not by wearing black stockings To say that Jesus did not focus on dress is a diversion. The stark public immorality of our modern world was not known in the times and places where Jesus walked the earth. Something close may or may not have been common in certain Roman cities, but certainly not in Judea and the surrounding areas. Jesus taught very strongly and severely against sin in the sermon on the mount and elsewhere. He told sinners to repent, to "go, and sin no more". If Jesus is not recorded as mentioning a specific sin, that does not mean he does not care about that sin and we are free to do it while claiming to love him. Further, Jesus did teach clearly against sins that are closely related to the way people dress. Is the way you dress an area of your life about which you believe your Lord does not care? If he knows the number of the hairs of our head, I believe he does care how his people dress. A man or woman who dresses in a worldly way is to that extent not letting the light of Christ shine in the world. Parents who dress their children inappropriately are teaching their children to conform themselves to the world and encouraging immorality. The verse you quote from Ephesians is very good for this thread and shows clearly that believers were formerly dead in sin while they walked in the ways of the world and now we are called to a new life in Christ, not to continue walking in the ways of the world and following the standards of the world, but seeking to dedicate all things to Christ and serve him with every thought and word and deed. Do you have any daughters calleduntoliberty? |
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Post by rational on May 5, 2016 22:58:18 GMT -5
To say that Jesus did not focus on dress is a diversion. The stark public immorality of our modern world was not known in the times and places where Jesus walked the earth. Perhaps the reason was due to the fact that the early founders were focused on things that were more important than what people were wearing. And, of course, nakedness had yet to be condemned by the church. It was only later when people decided that hemlines of dresses should be below the knee (or floor length), sleeves past the elbow, women's hair uncut, men's hair off their ears and collars. And men and women should never swim together. There are even charts:Dress codes can seem pretty silly. Unless, of course, they are yours. Then they only seem silly to others. Or maybe they are silly. |
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Post by calleduntoliberty on May 5, 2016 23:08:19 GMT -5
calleduntoliberty, exactly what is dressing in a worldly way ? Your opinion of what is worldly maybe a lot different to others, so in that case who is right ? Are you willing to allow the Holy Spirit to help you discern the answer to that, and willing to submit to God's will? Are you willing to look beyond what the world offers you and truly seek to glorify God in all areas of your life? Do you believe all areas of your life are significant to God? We could discuss details and consider this or that minor point if you'd like, but ultimately it is a matter of seeking and submission. |
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Post by calleduntoliberty on May 5, 2016 23:17:42 GMT -5
Godly conduct is for all of God's daughters and sons, ellie. |
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Post by ellie on May 5, 2016 23:57:50 GMT -5
Godly conduct is for all of God's daughters and sons, ellie. Referring to all female children whether you believe they are godly or not. Are you the parent or carer of any female children 18 years or younger? |
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Post by Roselyn T on May 6, 2016 0:14:07 GMT -5
calleduntoliberty, exactly what is dressing in a worldly way ? Your opinion of what is worldly maybe a lot different to others, so in that case who is right ? Are you willing to allow the Holy Spirit to help you discern the answer to that, and willing to submit to God's will? Are you willing to look beyond what the world offers you and truly seek to glorify God in all areas of your life? Do you believe all areas of your life are significant to God? We could discuss details and consider this or that minor point if you'd like, but ultimately it is a matter of seeking and submission. Does the HS change from say the 1900's to today ? |
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Post by calleduntoliberty on May 6, 2016 0:40:35 GMT -5
You should know the answer to that. You will know, if you seek in earnest. The question is whether you personally are willing to submit your will to his, to conform your life to his will, to die to sin and live in Christ. You do not have to answer here, in the forum, but examine yourself. God will know your answer and will receive you if you will submit to him.
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Post by Roselyn T on May 6, 2016 1:00:47 GMT -5
Are you willing to allow the Holy Spirit to help you discern the answer to that, and willing to submit to God's will? Are you willing to look beyond what the world offers you and truly seek to glorify God in all areas of your life? Do you believe all areas of your life are significant to God? We could discuss details and consider this or that minor point if you'd like, but ultimately it is a matter of seeking and submission. Does the HS change from say the 1900's to today ? So why aren't people dressing the same today as they did in the 1900's ? Also you are the one that seems to have the issue with the way women/people dress not me ! |
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Post by calleduntoliberty on May 6, 2016 1:17:05 GMT -5
Godly conduct is for all of God's daughters and sons, ellie. Referring to all female children whether you believe they are godly or not. Are you the parent or carer of any female children 18 years or younger? Hi, perhaps if someday we meet one another in person we can discuss our families freely with one another. I do not see this as the time or place, though I wish you and any family you may have blessings. I do not believe anything in my posts here has been dependent on my personal family relationships, but they are rather my understanding of Biblical truth on the subject. I believe that parents should train up their children in the way they should go, which more than anything else means that children should be taught to love God and submit themselves to his will. |
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Post by withlove on May 6, 2016 2:04:05 GMT -5
You should know the answer to that. You will know, if you seek in earnest. The question is whether you personally are willing to submit your will to his, to conform your life to his will, to die to sin and live in Christ. You do not have to answer here, in the forum, but examine yourself. God will know your answer and will receive you if you will submit to him. This is a good example of how cult leaders talk when legalese has failed. Question avoidance. Guilt-tripping the asker for not knowing the answer to her own question. Insinuation that she has not prayed honestly or intensely enough, because if she had, she would know the answer to the question which he personally is unwilling to answer. Dismissing her question as unimportant (the same question he feels should be more earnestly explored), and Replacing it with a different question. Suggestion that she is not saved or on the track to being saved. Challenge to do something to get right. If if this method of manipulation works, the questioner will stop asking the question, and assume blame and shame. "There must be something wrong with me for asking/not knowing." She will feel confused. She may try harder and more desperately than ever to understand, but quietly, so as not to be chided. She may become despondent and leave the group, or allow her critical thinking to dissolve and become more devoted to the group, yet less happy. In either case, the method of manipulation has worked- the questioner has shut up, and any threat to the leader is gone. |
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Post by ellie on May 6, 2016 5:15:31 GMT -5
Referring to all female children whether you believe they are godly or not. Are you the parent or carer of any female children 18 years or younger? I do not believe anything in my posts here has been dependent on my personal family relationships, but they are rather my understanding of Biblical truth on the subject. I’ve not seen the following in the bible. Parents who dress their children inappropriately are teaching their children to conform themselves to the world and encouraging immorality. I wondered whether the aforementioned came from personal experience as a parent or if it was pronouncement made upon assessing other people's parenting, or something else? So I thought it best to check, but I understand that you many not wish to say if you have children on a public forum. Perhaps you could assist my understanding of your post by pointing out the passage in the bible that says that dressing children inappropriately encourages children to be immoral. |
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Post by Roselyn T on May 6, 2016 6:35:55 GMT -5
You should know the answer to that. You will know, if you seek in earnest. The question is whether you personally are willing to submit your will to his, to conform your life to his will, to die to sin and live in Christ. You do not have to answer here, in the forum, but examine yourself. God will know your answer and will receive you if you will submit to him. This is a good example of how cult leaders talk when legalese has failed. Question avoidance. Guilt-tripping the asker for not knowing the answer to her own question. Insinuation that she has not prayed honestly or intensely enough, because if she had, she would know the answer to the question which he personally is unwilling to answer. Dismissing her question as unimportant (the same question he feels should be more earnestly explored), and Replacing it with a different question. Suggestion that she is not saved or on the track to being saved. Challenge to do something to get right. If if this method of manipulation works, the questioner will stop asking the question, and assume blame and shame. "There must be something wrong with me for asking/not knowing." She will feel confused. She may try harder and more desperately than ever to understand, but quietly, so as not to be chided. She may become despondent and leave the group, or allow her critical thinking to dissolve and become more devoted to the group, yet less happy. In either case, the method of manipulation has worked- the questioner has shut up, and any threat to the leader is gone. Exactly withlove, reminds me of how a worker answers a question they don't really want to answer ! That is why I asked calleduntoliberty if he (I am assuming here) is a worker ! |
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2016 7:14:11 GMT -5
Quote - "reminds me of how a worker answers a question they don't really want to
answer ! That is why I asked anytoll if he (I am assuming here) is a worker !"
Given that most questions I ask here don't get answered,
let's see if YOU can answer questions Roselyn T
1 - why don't people answer my questions on the TMB?
2 - why is that Jesus changed the subject, or ignored, nearly every question asked of him?
3 - why did Jesus spiritualize natural questions?
4 - can you give me a list of questions Workers won't answer? (I can give you seven A4 pages of unanswered TMB questions)
Regards cartoon below:
5 - in the cartoon, WHO isn't answering the question?
6 - can you recognize the same questions asked in the bible? What were THEIR answers?
7 - does it matter?
8 - do you think there's hypocrisy on this board?
ps I won't be offended if you don't answer the questions posed by my cartoon.
In fact no-one has been honest enough to tackle it in the five or so years I
have posted in on-line. You see, Workers often WON'T answer the question, their
detractors CAN'T answer the questions.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2016 7:19:06 GMT -5
Thanks for explaining Nathan. It makes it easier to understand why we do certain things. For me our beginning day's as a fellowship starting with William Irvine,Edward Cooney,George Walker ext. is very interesting and nothing to be ashamed of. |
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2016 7:42:41 GMT -5
The second panel on the above cartoon refers to Exodus
where the people thought Moses was a commoner. They knew
all about him - their idea of a Messenger from God was one
who actually CAME from God. Jesus gave a now famous quote
when they said the same of him, "A prophet has no honor in
his own country."
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2016 7:49:51 GMT -5
If godliness means being like God (or trying to be)...what clothes does God wear and who makes them ?......just thinking out loud... no proof but I've always imagined him in a long robe with cloak and a crown...and God can make them with a thought... But He is the Holy Spirit, the Holy Ghost, isn't He? Ghost and spirits dont wear clothes, do they?    |
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2016 8:10:11 GMT -5
Thanks for explaining Nathan. It makes it easier to understand why we do certain things. For me our beginning day's as a fellowship starting with William Irvine,Edward Cooney,George Walker ext. is very interesting and nothing to be ashamed of. I would love to read about all of this,just need to find the time .Maybe one night when all the little one's are asleep. |
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Post by rational on May 6, 2016 9:45:26 GMT -5
Does the HS change from say the 1900's to today ? So why aren't people dressing the same today as they did in the 1900's ? Also you are the one that seems to have the issue with the way women/people dress not me ! Or why not dressing and behaving as they did at the time of the NT. Probably because the dress would be deemed immodest and people bathing nude together would be either frowned on or lead to arrest. And then there is the matter of how you would treat slaves... The answers to the questions are all, as far as I can see, non-answers. If the HS is guiding a person they should be able to articulate what modest dress is and not just say it means submitting. If you work in an office and the dress code is business casual you could certainly get some examples from someone who has set the rules. No one would say - "Just submit to the rules and you will be all set". It is a non-answer. When the value judgement is made that it is immoral to wear immodest clothes there should be a guideline to help people who ask what is and is not immodest. |
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Post by breakfree on May 6, 2016 9:57:44 GMT -5
anytoll,
you seem to describe others as people 'of the world' and the ways 'of the world'..that is typical 2x2 language...
anyone that is not 2x2 is 'of the world'.....think about that!....so are you the only ones 'of GOD'?....
man looks at the outward appearance ,but GOD looks at the heart.....really, God is not into fashion as we think....clothing has evolved over time by humans...why do we have to make things so complicated? because the ones who can wear all the fancy clothes etc etc should in your eyes portray holiness etc etc...NOT SO!...it was the little shepherd boy David who GOD chose to be anointed....and it was not about his outer garments!
What the friends and workers consider 'worldly' in their eyes is not the same as God sees...God sees us all as naked...he does not care about our clothes! if so what about some of the people of Africa who have no clothes and some who wear very little?(they are mostly naked)....
it is a human tendency to judge others by the way they dress but really in the eyes of GOD I do not think this is of ANY importance! Really!
because we can fool people by the way we dress outwardly, but not GOD!
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Post by calleduntoliberty on May 6, 2016 10:25:00 GMT -5
I do not believe anything in my posts here has been dependent on my personal family relationships, but they are rather my understanding of Biblical truth on the subject. I’ve not seen the following in the bible. Parents who dress their children inappropriately are teaching their children to conform themselves to the world and encouraging immorality. I wondered whether the aforementioned came from personal experience as a parent or if it was pronouncement made upon assessing other people's parenting, or something else? So I thought it best to check, but I understand that you many not wish to say if you have children on a public forum. Perhaps you could assist my understanding of your post by pointing out the passage in the bible that says that dressing children inappropriately encourages children to be immoral. I could restate it in a different way, but I'm not sure how to fully explain this. I consider it common sense that children learn to do the things that they are taught to do. You may or may not agree with this, but assume that for the sake of understanding what comes next that Christian adults should dress modestly. Perhaps some who accept that do not think modesty matters for children. However, even without any further reasons why modesty matters for children, they should be dressed modestly as children so that they will learn to dress themselves modestly when they are older and are responsible for their own clothing. If they are not taught when they are young, they may or may not learn modesty when they are older. God can certainly teach them when they are older, but people often tend to stick to what is familiar and unless they think carefully about a particular issue it is likely that many young people will by default continue dressing immodestly if their their parents dressed them that way when they are young. |
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2016 10:29:05 GMT -5
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Post by calleduntoliberty on May 6, 2016 10:47:17 GMT -5
anytoll, you seem to describe others as people 'of the world' and the ways 'of the world'..that is typical 2x2 language... anyone that is not 2x2 is 'of the world'.....think about that!....so are you the only ones 'of GOD'?.... man looks at the outward appearance ,but GOD looks at the heart.....really, God is not into fashion as we think....clothing has evolved over time by humans...why do we have to make things so complicated? because the ones who can wear all the fancy clothes etc etc should in your eyes portray holiness etc etc...NOT SO!...it was the little shepherd boy David who GOD chose to be anointed....and it was not about his outer garments! What the friends and workers consider 'worldly' in their eyes is not the same as God sees...God sees us all as naked...he does not care about our clothes! if so what about some of the people of Africa who have no clothes and some who wear very little?(they are mostly naked).... it is a human tendency to judge others by the way they dress but really in the eyes of GOD I do not think this is of ANY importance! Really! because we can fool people by the way we dress outwardly, but not GOD! You have made some strong doctrinal assertions, so I'm not sure I can persuade you to change your beliefs. You've also made some statements that sound as though they might be implications about my beliefs. I can tell you that those are wrong. I think I can agree that God is "not into fashion" in the sense the word "fashion" is typically used regarding clothing. I can assure you that fancy clothes do not at all portray holiness in my eyes. Man looks on the outward things, God looks at the heart, and fancy clothes do not impress God. For that reason (among others), we should examine our own hearts and intentions if we wear fancy clothes or if we wear revealing clothes or whatever type of clothes we wear. The most modest clothing will not disguise a heart that is not right toward God, but those who loves God will allow him to lead them to an understanding that he cares deeply for us and there is nothing we do that is beyond his care. We may think that this or that thing is insignificant to God and we should therefore make our decisions without considering his will or consulting him, but I trust that the God who watches over the tiniest insect also is concerned for every thought and word and deed in the life of those whom he created in his image. |
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Post by breakfree on May 6, 2016 10:50:29 GMT -5
Quote - "reminds me of how a worker answers a question they don't really want to
answer ! That is why I asked anytoll if he (I am assuming here) is a worker !"
Given that most questions I ask here don't get answered,
let's see if YOU can answer questions Roselyn T
1 - why don't people answer my questions on the TMB?
2 - why is that Jesus changed the subject, or ignored, nearly every question asked of him?
3 - why did Jesus spiritualize natural questions?
4 - can you give me a list of questions Workers won't answer? (I can give you seven A4 pages of unanswered TMB questions)
Regards cartoon below:
5 - in the cartoon, WHO isn't answering the question?
6 - can you recognize the same questions asked in the bible? What were THEIR answers?
7 - does it matter?
8 - do you think there's hypocrisy on this board?
ps I won't be offended if you don't answer the questions posed by my cartoon.
In fact no-one has been honest enough to tackle it in the five or so years I
have posted in on-line. You see, Workers often WON'T answer the question, their
detractors CAN'T answer the questions. Good cartoon,Bert. come and listen,...the worker forgot to tell the couple come and listen to our interpretation ....then you will have to profess before one of us if you want to have salvation...the worker does not think 'we are all God's people' ...only those who belong to the 'workers' fellowship'..... I am thinking the couple are wondering why the worker would not answer their questions? does he really think he has something different to offer ? a different gospel? No answers....why bother?....they left disappointed .... I would think the worker should at least tell them a little about the wonderful story of Jesus ....they shouldn't have to wait till Gospel meeting time 7 pm....it is not such a mystery...we should be more than happy to tell others about it....even on the street... |
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Post by breakfree on May 6, 2016 11:06:07 GMT -5
I missed the first question...What religion are you? What name do you have? most workers would 'probably' say we are not a religion...we do not have a name???we believe that God does not have a name for His people but a people for His name.. and btw, you will have different answers from different people....I don't speak for all....when something is not clear, how can you get a straight answer? |
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