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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Feb 13, 2016 3:36:34 GMT -5
They could have won the war if they were allowed to flatten the place similar to what they did at Dresden, Hamburg, Hiroshima, Tokyo and so on. However there were thankfully enough sensible US citizens who realized what the Vietnamese people were fighting for and there was a lot of political pressure to end the war. Any soldier who finds himself in that situation needs to look at his own ethics and morals in being involved in war against other people in their land.
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Post by magpie on Feb 13, 2016 16:43:50 GMT -5
Hi Curly, Understand your feelings Like Crimea wanted indapendance from Ukraine,the are pro-East. Russia step in and support them. Uninvited bt Ukraine of course. Were USA and us invited into Vietnam,Iraq,Syria,Afganastan,etc,"NO" yet U.S is trying to create another propaganda of a cold war over Russia in Crimea!!! Yes and loyal military as sheep to slaughter,it is sad,will follow a leader.
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Post by magpie on Feb 13, 2016 17:00:00 GMT -5
Hagain Curly. How real is this?.. "How fortunate for leaders that men do not think"....Adolph Hitler, (1889-1945).
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 17:47:19 GMT -5
Hi Curly, Understand your feelings Like Crimea wanted indapendance from Ukraine,the are pro-East. Russia step in and support them. Uninvited bt Ukraine of course. Were USA and us invited into Vietnam,Iraq,Syria,Afganastan,etc,"NO" yet U.S is trying to create another propaganda of a cold war over Russia in Crimea!!! Yes and loyal military as sheep to slaughter,it is sad,will follow a leader. ummm wrong again we(usa) were invited into Vietnam by ngo dinh diem or bao dai I believe...
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Post by Gene on Feb 13, 2016 18:07:58 GMT -5
They could have won the war if they were allowed to flatten the place similar to what they did at Dresden, Hamburg, Hiroshima, Tokyo and so on. However there were thankfully enough sensible US citizens who realized what the Vietnamese people were fighting for and there was a lot of political pressure to end the war. Any soldier who finds himself in that situation needs to look at his own ethics and morals in being involved in war against other people in their land. There were some who resisted. They crossed into Canada and were called "draft-dodgers."
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Post by BobWilliston on Feb 13, 2016 18:33:18 GMT -5
They could have won the war if they were allowed to flatten the place similar to what they did at Dresden, Hamburg, Hiroshima, Tokyo and so on. However there were thankfully enough sensible US citizens who realized what the Vietnamese people were fighting for and there was a lot of political pressure to end the war. Any soldier who finds himself in that situation needs to look at his own ethics and morals in being involved in war against other people in their land. There were some who resisted. They crossed into Canada and were called "draft-dodgers." A LOT of them came -- we got doctors and members of Parliament out of that influx. (The smart ones left ).
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Post by BobWilliston on Feb 13, 2016 18:36:43 GMT -5
Hi Curly, Understand your feelings Like Crimea wanted indapendance from Ukraine,the are pro-East. Russia step in and support them. Uninvited bt Ukraine of course. Were USA and us invited into Vietnam,Iraq,Syria,Afganastan,etc,"NO" yet U.S is trying to create another propaganda of a cold war over Russia in Crimea!!! Yes and loyal military as sheep to slaughter,it is sad,will follow a leader. ummm wrong again we(usa) were invited into Vietnam by ngo dinh diem or bao dai I believe... And you think they were representatives of the South Vietnamese? Another dictatorship kissing another American fat money-butt.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 18:45:06 GMT -5
There were some who resisted. They crossed into Canada and were called "draft-dodgers." A LOT of them came -- we got doctors and members of Parliament out of that influx. (The smart ones left ). The vast majority of the draft-dodgers you speak of returned to the USA. It was not such a positive to Canada as you think, for even the few that remained were mostly extreme Leftists - something for which Canada definitely didn't need any more of.
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Post by BobWilliston on Feb 13, 2016 18:47:37 GMT -5
A LOT of them came -- we got doctors and members of Parliament out of that influx. (The smart ones left ). The vast majority of the draft-dodgers you speak of returned to the USA. It was not such a positive to Canada as you think, for even the few that remained were mostly extreme Leftists - something for which Canada definitely didn't need any more of. Loud, rude, and basically ignorant.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 18:49:22 GMT -5
ummm wrong again we(usa) were invited into Vietnam by ngo dinh diem or bao dai I believe... And you think they were representatives of the South Vietnamese? Another dictatorship kissing another American fat money-butt. Both of you are way off base. The US went into VN because it was believed that HCM was a Russian puppet. If Russia was able to gain control of VN, it would be able to project power fully into the South China Sea theater - threatening SK and JPN by cutting the sea-lanes. It would have been a massive threat to American security if VN became under Russian control. Notice that after the US withdrawal that China invaded VN (for similar reasons as the US). In the end the thesis of Russian control turned out to be wrong. HCM didn't let VN become a Russian puppet.
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Post by BobWilliston on Feb 13, 2016 21:08:12 GMT -5
And you think they were representatives of the South Vietnamese? Another dictatorship kissing another American fat money-butt. Both of you are way off base. The US went into VN because it was believed that HCM was a Russian puppet. If Russia was able to gain control of VN, it would be able to project power fully into the South China Sea theater - threatening SK and JPN by cutting the sea-lanes. It would have been a massive threat to American security if VN became under Russian control. Notice that after the US withdrawal that China invaded VN (for similar reasons as the US). In the end the thesis of Russian control turned out to be wrong. HCM didn't let VN become a Russian puppet. I know. My best friend lived through it. Sorry I couldn't include the whole half century history in that post.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Feb 13, 2016 21:36:11 GMT -5
Hi Curly, Understand your feelings Like Crimea wanted indapendance from Ukraine,the are pro-East. Russia step in and support them. Uninvited bt Ukraine of course. Were USA and us invited into Vietnam,Iraq,Syria,Afganastan,etc,"NO" yet U.S is trying to create another propaganda of a cold war over Russia in Crimea!!! Yes and loyal military as sheep to slaughter,it is sad,will follow a leader. ummm wrong again we(usa) were invited into Vietnam by ngo dinh diem or bao dai I believe... That's an interesting take on the truth. The President of Vietnam was a puppet installed by the USA. Of course he invited them. If he did not they would have been a change of puppets. The USA were after the rich rewards of rubber, oil and gas that lie in Vietnamese territory.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Feb 13, 2016 21:42:54 GMT -5
And you think they were representatives of the South Vietnamese? Another dictatorship kissing another American fat money-butt. Both of you are way off base. The US went into VN because it was believed that HCM was a Russian puppet. If Russia was able to gain control of VN, it would be able to project power fully into the South China Sea theater - threatening SK and JPN by cutting the sea-lanes. It would have been a massive threat to American security if VN became under Russian control. Notice that after the US withdrawal that China invaded VN (for similar reasons as the US). In the end the thesis of Russian control turned out to be wrong. HCM didn't let VN become a Russian puppet. Well Simpleton that just shows that the USA were wrong again. HCM was supplied weapons and so on by the USA during the time Japan was in control of Vietnam. The French thought to come back after the war but the Vietnamese people had enough of foreigners and wanted them all out so they could run their own country themselves. This is where the US intelligence had a major failing and a needless war erupted. How different it all could have been if they had sat down over a beer and discussed the situation.
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Post by BobWilliston on Feb 13, 2016 22:28:14 GMT -5
I hope you're not missing the enlightening GOP debate.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 23:35:25 GMT -5
ummm wrong again we(usa) were invited into Vietnam by ngo dinh diem or bao dai I believe... That's an interesting take on the truth. The President of Vietnam was a puppet installed by the USA. Of course he invited them. If he did not they would have been a change of puppets. The USA were after the rich rewards of rubber, oil and gas that lie in Vietnamese territory. not everyone agrees with your twist on history...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 23:40:23 GMT -5
I hope you're not missing the enlightening GOP debate. Rubio won and Trump went off the deep end with the "no WMD in Iraq theory"
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 23:47:20 GMT -5
I hope you're not missing the enlightening GOP debate. Rubio won and Trump went off the deep end with the "no WMD in Iraq theory"
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 23:51:27 GMT -5
Both of you are way off base. The US went into VN because it was believed that HCM was a Russian puppet. If Russia was able to gain control of VN, it would be able to project power fully into the South China Sea theater - threatening SK and JPN by cutting the sea-lanes. It would have been a massive threat to American security if VN became under Russian control. Notice that after the US withdrawal that China invaded VN (for similar reasons as the US). In the end the thesis of Russian control turned out to be wrong. HCM didn't let VN become a Russian puppet. Well Simpleton that just shows that the USA were wrong again. HCM was supplied weapons and so on by the USA during the time Japan was in control of Vietnam. The French thought to come back after the war but the Vietnamese people had enough of foreigners and wanted them all out so they could run their own country themselves. This is where the US intelligence had a major failing and a needless war erupted. How different it all could have been if they had sat down over a beer and discussed the situation. yeah..... So where did NVN get their weapons from? Russia was a major partner of NVN and Russia rightfully thought that they Russia were going to get a client state out of VN. So no, US intel was correct at the time. It was just that HCM was playing the Russians off against the Chinese off against the French (later Americans). HCM was the winner, everyone else the loser.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2016 23:54:42 GMT -5
They could have won the war if they were allowed to flatten the place similar to what they did at Dresden, Hamburg, Hiroshima, Tokyo and so on. However there were thankfully enough sensible US citizens who realized what the Vietnamese people were fighting for and there was a lot of political pressure to end the war. Any soldier who finds himself in that situation needs to look at his own ethics and morals in being involved in war against other people in their land. There were some who resisted. They crossed into Canada and were called "draft-dodgers." 'draft-dodger' is a nice way of saying traitor. Those folks should have been severely punished for 'draft-dodging'. And frankly, Canada should have been severely punished by the US for allowing it to happen.
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Post by dmmichgood on Feb 14, 2016 0:04:37 GMT -5
They could have won the war if they were allowed to flatten the place similar to what they did at Dresden, Hamburg, Hiroshima, Tokyo and so on. However there were thankfully enough sensible US citizens who realized what the Vietnamese people were fighting for and there was a lot of political pressure to end the war. Any soldier who finds himself in that situation needs to look at his own ethics and morals in being involved in war against other people in their land. There were some who resisted. They crossed into Canada and were called "draft-dodgers." A box of personal material; pictures, old letters , etc., came into my possession that someone had discarded and left behind when they moved. They represented very personal viewpoint concerning Vietnam War.
They belonged to a young black man who left the US to live in Europe at the time. Letters from his mother, father, from other young men who did the same, -painted a very poignant picture of the times.
There was very good reasons that some of those men that were dubbed "draft-dodgers" didn't want to go to war. For the sake of their own conscience was one.
Another was that those young men that were drafted had no choice as to whether to go into another country to kill people.T They could be drafted at age 19 a time when they weren't even yet old enough to vote until they were 21.
The Vietnam War was one of the worst atrocities the US committed in our own times, -not only against another country but on a whole generation of our own young men.
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Post by dmmichgood on Feb 14, 2016 0:16:05 GMT -5
There were some who resisted. They crossed into Canada and were called "draft-dodgers." 'draft-dodger' is a nice way of saying traitor. Those folks should have been severely punished for 'draft-dodging'. And frankly, Canada should have been severely punished by the US for allowing it to happen. I do so hope that in the next war that you will get yourself right down to the Military Enlistment Office bright & early before dawn and give over your own body, your own mind and your own conscience to be manipulated the only way the military says you will, OR ELSE you will face court marital.
BRAVO! BRAVO! to you! Go girl, go, - KILL, KILL, without end!
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Post by BobWilliston on Feb 14, 2016 0:32:03 GMT -5
I hope you're not missing the enlightening GOP debate. Rubio won and Trump went off the deep end with the "no WMD in Iraq theory" It doesn't really matter who won. John Kasich turns out to be the only one in control of himself. Overall it resembled an argument among bragging juveniles. What a circus!
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Post by BobWilliston on Feb 14, 2016 0:35:09 GMT -5
There were some who resisted. They crossed into Canada and were called "draft-dodgers." 'draft-dodger' is a nice way of saying traitor. Those folks should have been severely punished for 'draft-dodging'. And frankly, Canada should have been severely punished by the US for allowing it to happen. Sorry - you lost that one too.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Feb 14, 2016 2:07:26 GMT -5
Well Simpleton that just shows that the USA were wrong again. HCM was supplied weapons and so on by the USA during the time Japan was in control of Vietnam. The French thought to come back after the war but the Vietnamese people had enough of foreigners and wanted them all out so they could run their own country themselves. This is where the US intelligence had a major failing and a needless war erupted. How different it all could have been if they had sat down over a beer and discussed the situation. yeah..... So where did NVN get their weapons from? Russia was a major partner of NVN and Russia rightfully thought that they Russia were going to get a client state out of VN. So no, US intel was correct at the time. It was just that HCM was playing the Russians off against the Chinese off against the French (later Americans). HCM was the winner, everyone else the loser. The point is, non of this needed to happen. If all the meddlers had stayed at home, USA, USSR, France and China had allowed Vietnam to have sovereignty over itself then this war would never have happened. But no, the greedy people wanted the resources that Vietnam had. It was never about communism or any other ideology but all about greed.
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Post by curlywurlysammagee on Feb 14, 2016 2:09:28 GMT -5
That's an interesting take on the truth. The President of Vietnam was a puppet installed by the USA. Of course he invited them. If he did not they would have been a change of puppets. The USA were after the rich rewards of rubber, oil and gas that lie in Vietnamese territory. not everyone agrees with your twist on history...
I forgot, your a Republican, which kind of stands in the way of thinking for yourself.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 14:09:53 GMT -5
yeah..... So where did NVN get their weapons from? Russia was a major partner of NVN and Russia rightfully thought that they Russia were going to get a client state out of VN. So no, US intel was correct at the time. It was just that HCM was playing the Russians off against the Chinese off against the French (later Americans). HCM was the winner, everyone else the loser. The point is, non of this needed to happen. If all the meddlers had stayed at home, USA, USSR, France and China had allowed Vietnam to have sovereignty over itself then this war would never have happened. But no, the greedy people wanted the resources that Vietnam had. It was never about communism or any other ideology but all about greed. It was about grand strategy of the global order. Read Kissinger's Diplomacy book if you don't agree.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2016 14:12:58 GMT -5
'draft-dodger' is a nice way of saying traitor. Those folks should have been severely punished for 'draft-dodging'. And frankly, Canada should have been severely punished by the US for allowing it to happen. Sorry - you lost that one too. No, those draft-dodgers were facing severe punishments if they attempted to return to the US during the period 1963-1977. It was only during the Carter presidency (1977) that Carter granted amnesty to the draft-dodgers to return (which the vast majority did). And Canada was punished slightly during the Johnson presidency. Do you remember "You pissed on my rug!" in 1965 in the White House?
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Post by BobWilliston on Feb 14, 2016 19:40:53 GMT -5
Sorry - you lost that one too. No, those draft-dodgers were facing severe punishments if they attempted to return to the US during the period 1963-1977. It was only during the Carter presidency (1977) that Carter granted amnesty to the draft-dodgers to return (which the vast majority did). And Canada was punished slightly during the Johnson presidency. Do you remember "You pissed on my rug!" in 1965 in the White House? Who cares? You didn't want the smart ones back anyway.
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