|
Post by Roselyn T on Feb 5, 2016 22:23:40 GMT -5
I am curious if the general idea amongst the F&W in the US is the same as @wally's view : " the jews had faith in God and owned swords so to do Christians(where allowed) have faith in Jesus and God and own firearms..."
If a person has faith in God, why do they need a gun for protection? Don't they think God will take care of his own?
The idea of a Christian owing a gun for protection is something I find strange.
|
|
gells
Senior Member
Posts: 744
|
Post by gells on Feb 6, 2016 1:26:24 GMT -5
Apply this same logic to medicine. What say you?
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Feb 6, 2016 2:14:48 GMT -5
Apply this same logic to medicine. What say you? This is ridiculous. Medicine is intended to heal one's body. Guns are intended to do violence to another person.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Feb 6, 2016 2:32:38 GMT -5
I am curious if the general idea amongst the F&W in the US is the same as @wally's view : " the jews had faith in God and owned swords so to do Christians(where allowed) have faith in Jesus and God and own firearms..." If a person has faith in God, why do they need a gun for protection? Don't they think God will take care of his own? The idea of a Christian owing a gun for protection is something I find strange. Unfortunately, I think the majority of F&W in the US feel the same way about guns as does Wally. Not knowing the extent of Wally's armaments, I suspect he is more fanatic about this than most, but in general I find American friends quite in favor of shooting trespassers. One of the friends woke in the middle of the night, not knowing that his wife had gotten out of bed to go to the bathroom. He heard her returning to the bedroom and shot her dead in the dark because he thought some stranger had come into the house. I had never heard of the friends owning anything other than a hunting rifle before I came to the US, but in the US it is religious people who are the most adamant gun fans. It's not unrelated to their fear of other "kinds of people". I sat in a friend's home and listened to one of their children explain how much fun they had driving along roads and when they saw a Mexican or a black walking they'd put out a broom and hit him on the head. The parents were quite amused. I told them exactly what I thought of it. Personally, I've long considered the friends in the US to be more "American" than "Christian", but they're no worse than most other denominations in that respect. My motto: A live coward is worth a lot more to his family than a dead hero.
|
|
bgm
Junior Member
Posts: 99
|
Post by bgm on Feb 6, 2016 2:34:03 GMT -5
No it's not a valid idea, it's cultural. I live in Canada very close to Wally and our view of firearms is extremely different. We don't believe in guns or killing people at all. Wally lives in a different culture where killing people is a valid method to resolve problems. This is not a 2x2 issue and never will be.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Feb 6, 2016 2:58:02 GMT -5
No it's not a valid idea, it's cultural. I live in Canada very close to Wally and our view of firearms is extremely different. We don't believe in guns or killing people at all. Wally lives in a different culture where killing people is a valid method to resolve problems. This is not a 2x2 issue and never will be. You're exactly right.
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on Feb 6, 2016 3:24:29 GMT -5
Thank you for your replies
|
|
|
Post by maryhig on Feb 6, 2016 4:31:12 GMT -5
I am curious if the general idea amongst the F&W in the US is the same as @wally's view : " the jews had faith in God and owned swords so to do Christians(where allowed) have faith in Jesus and God and own firearms..." If a person has faith in God, why do they need a gun for protection? Don't they think God will take care of his own? The idea of a Christian owing a gun for protection is something I find strange. Unfortunately, I think the majority of F&W in the US feel the same way about guns as does Wally. Not knowing the extent of Wally's armaments, I suspect he is more fanatic about this than most, but in general I find American friends quite in favor of shooting trespassers. One of the friends woke in the middle of the night, not knowing that his wife had gotten out of bed to go to the bathroom. He heard her returning to the bedroom and shot her dead in the dark because he thought some stranger had come into the house. I had never heard of the friends owning anything other than a hunting rifle before I came to the US, but in the US it is religious people who are the most adamant gun fans. It's not unrelated to their fear of other "kinds of people". I sat in a friend's home and listened to one of their children explain how much fun they had driving along roads and when they saw a Mexican or a black walking they'd put out a broom and hit him on the head. The parents were quite amused. I told them exactly what I thought of it. Personally, I've long considered the friends in the US to be more "American" than "Christian", but they're no worse than most other denominations in that respect. My motto: A live coward is worth a lot more to his family than a dead hero. That's terrible about the husband and wife, and its just disgusting to treat black people and Mexican people like that or anyone for that matter. How can anyone say they belong to God and then have hatred in their heart to hurt another. What's the big deal about us all having different coloured skin? I've never ever understood that. In Gods eyes were all equal, so should we be through Gods peoples eyes too, if they truly belong to God. I've never seen a real gun around here, or known anyone to own one, only a soldier who was in a military show. I couldn't believe how heavy they were. You would never really hear of guns unless there has been a tragedy. We don't hear of them much, even our police force don't have them they have a special police unit. I personally, don't see the need for them, except for hunting for food. Hunting for food I can understand, but hurting a helpless animal for enjoyment I'll never understand, and owning a gun with the thought that you could use it to hurt a human being is unbelievable! As for God people owning guns to maybe kill, in the bible Paul says that our weapons of warfare are not carnal, and Jesus himself said in Luke 3 to the soldiers. Show violence to no man, he also said, if someone strikes you, turn the other cheek. Jesus showed us the way, and that way is a non violent, non racist, loving way.
|
|
|
Post by Gene on Feb 6, 2016 8:14:58 GMT -5
Apply this same logic to medicine. What say you? This is ridiculous. Medicine is intended to heal one's body. Guns are intended to do violence to another person. I think what gells is saying is that if gun ownership by a Christian is evidence that person does not trust God to protect him, then similarly, for example, a Christian who takes the annual flu shot (jab) evidently doesn't trust God to protect him.
|
|
gells
Senior Member
Posts: 744
|
Post by gells on Feb 6, 2016 10:29:35 GMT -5
Thanks, Gene. Yes, that is what I'm saying! Living close to where violence is not something out of the ordinary. Only blocks from where I lived, a student at the university that I was attending (5 years ago?) was at a local trail taking pictures for a photography class. She was raped and murdered. Burned to a crisp, that they were unsure if the remains were human. 4 years before that, there was a shooting killing 5 people at the University. There are a myriad of other crimes happening all the time. Perhaps in other countries, safety is assumed. You cannot always assume safety. Just as many get a flu shot (do they not trust God to keep them safe?), many have personal weapons. Who says Gods protection cannot come by human means? I do not carry a gun, but sometimes I wonder if I should. My husband does have weapons, but they are not easily accessible. P.S. Funny fact: they say the sound of a shotgun being loaded is a very effective deterrent to home invasions!
|
|
gells
Senior Member
Posts: 744
|
Post by gells on Feb 6, 2016 10:40:33 GMT -5
The logic is not ridiculous. Both are human means that can potentially help keep you from dying! And some do believe that using medicine is not trusting God.
|
|
|
Post by bendle on Feb 6, 2016 12:30:16 GMT -5
The USA has indeed a culture whereby shooting someone dead is a valid option. In the uk if there is a fatal shooting by the police firearms units then there is automatically an investigation into the circumstances. Shooting someone dead has to be a last resort here. A shooting by a member of the public regardless of the circumstances would automatically bring with it a police investigation. As Maryhig says, our police are not routinely armed (they have access to tasers and cs spray however) and the uk policy of policing by consent means that their approach is a little different to many police forces insofar that respect and restraint are required to be used. This ensures that the public do not fear the police and co-operate with them.
Country people, of which I am one, tend to accept the need to own and use firearms. Living in a tower block or housing estate would tend to mean that you had no valid reason to own a firearm unless for business reasons, or you had written permission to shoot over a large area of land. You cannot just own a firearm for the sake of it over here.
Plenty of professing people in the uk are legal gun owners and would tend to have the same approach to gun ownership as the rest of the general population. Based on my own experience many religious people in the uk tend, I find, to be inclined anti gun ownership rather than pro.
Sadly I think the the USA (which is streets ahead in any statistics for gun crime among western nations) is probably beyond a reasonable approach to gun ownership. As put by others in another thread, fear of violence is a primary factor in a weapons purchase. A cycle of violence is going to be very hard if not impossible to break when violence is given particular coverage by the likes of Fox News with their famously unbiased reporting and talk shows and the likes of Alex Jones. The US average of 3.8 gun deaths per 100,000 people as a countywide average is amazingly low when statistics show that some US cities have gun violence rates which are equivalent to national averages of the more violent south American countries; New Orleans is comparable to Honduras 62.1 versus 68.4, or Detroit and El Salvador at 35.9 and 39.9 respectively. There are many more examples.
I suppose fear sells and as a sales tactic it is effective if reprehensible.
|
|
|
Post by blacksheep on Feb 6, 2016 12:58:19 GMT -5
Luke 22:36 (KJV)
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
I wonder if Jesus just wanted them to have swords in order to kill animals for food?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2016 16:13:27 GMT -5
Luke 22:36 (KJV) Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.I wonder if Jesus just wanted them to have swords in order to kill animals for food? Probably to protect themselves from wild animals and to deter acts of robbery during their peripatetic missions? I think Nathan's explanation that they were for use as illustration props when preaching the Word of God is sharper than a two-edged sword and when Jesus said "suppose ye I came to bring peace to the Earth, but nay, I say a sword! (paraphrased). He has a point!
|
|
|
Post by blacksheep on Feb 6, 2016 16:23:06 GMT -5
He also has a hole in his head, but that's beside the point!
|
|
|
Post by curlywurlysammagee on Feb 6, 2016 16:23:49 GMT -5
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2016 16:47:32 GMT -5
don't forget the left wing media and left wing hollywierd...
|
|
|
Post by xna on Feb 6, 2016 16:48:33 GMT -5
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2016 16:57:35 GMT -5
that is a little much...I find your bacon bullets hilarious though...
|
|
|
Post by xna on Feb 6, 2016 17:43:28 GMT -5
USA "Jesus Rifles" with or without bacon bullets. that is a little much...I find your bacon bullets hilarious though...
|
|
|
Post by curlywurlysammagee on Feb 6, 2016 17:53:04 GMT -5
Where were the mighty fine chaps from the militia at the Boston Marathon bombing? Rhetorical question really, isn't it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2016 18:03:46 GMT -5
Where were the mighty fine chaps from the militia at the Boston Marathon bombing? Rhetorical question really, isn't it. maybe you should direct your question to Obama or Hillary or the FBI or the CIA or HS....
|
|
gells
Senior Member
Posts: 744
|
Firearms
Feb 6, 2016 19:14:03 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by gells on Feb 6, 2016 19:14:03 GMT -5
Typical United Statsian? What is that supposed to mean?!? Obviously you have idea of what America is like. Can't imagine it's much different than any where else. Just because we are portrayed as an idiotic country, doesn't mean everyone is like that. Only the crazies make the news! Helps to keep everyone thinking that we are a bunch of idiots. (There are a lot of them, but the normal people stay out of the media!) did you read about the Norwegian girl that learned she was cat at 16 years old? Sounds like she belongs here. ? some animal rights activists might push for something for her. Lol. Oh, the amount of fun I could have with this!
|
|
|
Post by joanna on Feb 6, 2016 19:19:29 GMT -5
To those who trust in god and believe in prayer,
Why would you possess a firearm to protect self or loved ones?
To do so informs you have doubts about your god's ability to respond to your requests and needs.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2016 19:22:35 GMT -5
To those who trust in god and believe in prayer, Why would you possess a firearm to protect self or loved ones? To do so informs you have doubts about your god's ability to respond to your requests and needs. maybe Gods answer is to go and get a firearm for protection...
I like what gells said...why get vaccinated or go to a doctor if you have faith in God....
|
|
|
Post by joanna on Feb 6, 2016 19:35:17 GMT -5
Did god tell you what type of weapon to purchase @wally? Surprising he did not recommend you stick with a sword as they effectively murdered the Canaanites, Midianites and his other victims.
It must be easy to justify the taking up of arms when you believe in the God of Abraham. Violence is a central theme of the Hebrew bible.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2016 19:41:10 GMT -5
Violence is a thing of this world. The Children of Israel had to live in a violent world.
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Feb 6, 2016 19:57:50 GMT -5
This is ridiculous. Medicine is intended to heal one's body. Guns are intended to do violence to another person. I think what gells is saying is that if gun ownership by a Christian is evidence that person does not trust God to protect him, then similarly, for example, a Christian who takes the annual flu shot (jab) evidently doesn't trust God to protect him. Yes, I understand. But my answer really had nothing to do with trusting God -- it had to do with respect for human life.
|
|