Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2016 14:20:37 GMT -5
Why does atheist find this board so attractive ? It deals mostly with topic's that they don't believe in,is there not enough atheist boards/discussion sites on the internet ?And even when one asks that only current 2x2 members participate in a debate,some will still poke there noses in.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Jan 28, 2016 16:14:08 GMT -5
Why does atheist find this board so attractive ? It deals mostly with topic's that they don't believe in, is there not enough atheist boards/discussion sites on the internet? And even when one asks that only current 2x2 members participate in a debate, some will still poke there noses in. Could the reason we are interested in being on this board, the Truth Meetings Board ('The Truth'), is because it is a board about a topic in which we are all related by one common denominator?
That common denominator is a belief known here as F&W's or 2x2's. ('The Truth'). Some are still in the church, some out & some went to other churches, some of us just out.
I find it interesting that those still in often "debate" differences amongst themselves. Those out, "debate" what is wrong with the 2x2's vs their new church.
It is also interesting to note that all of those in or out, but still consider themselves to be Christians, don't argue that the others should not participate on this board.
However, when an atheist says anything, -even though we were once affiliated with that same group, -suddenly we become persona non grata.
Umfolozi, can you explain why some people like yourself seem to feel that we who are atheists should not participate in the discussion?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2016 16:22:42 GMT -5
Why does atheist find this board so attractive ? It deals mostly with topic's that they don't believe in,is there not enough atheist boards/discussion sites on the internet ?And even when one asks that only current 2x2 members participate in a debate,some will still poke there noses in. you have to specifically ask that atheist not participate and generally they will comply...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2016 17:55:48 GMT -5
Why does atheist find this board so attractive ? It deals mostly with topic's that they don't believe in,is there not enough atheist boards/discussion sites on the internet ?And even when one asks that only current 2x2 members participate in a debate,some will still poke there noses in. you have to specifically ask that atheist not participate and generally they will comply... Thanks,I will try that next time!
|
|
|
Post by xna on Jan 28, 2016 18:36:29 GMT -5
Why does atheist find this board so attractive ? It deals mostly with topic's that they don't believe in,is there not enough atheist boards/discussion sites on the internet ?And even when one asks that only current 2x2 members participate in a debate,some will still poke there noses in. Here is some of one atheist reasons. 1. ex-2x2 AND atheist we are welcomed. If asked to leave I would. DISCLAIMER: TMB is administered by a small admin team, half of whom are professing. The opinions of many who post on the board are not reflective of the admin team. It is our belief that many issues in the fellowship meetings result from the lack of sound biblical teaching that has caused many readers to move away from the only foundation in Christ. New readers should not be surprised or discouraged by the tone of non-believers on the board, who are as welcome as any to post. New readers are warmly invited to reach out to the admin in confidence, we are always willing to answer any questions / provide support and encouragement, etc. 2. TMB for me is part of living a self examined life. TMB lets me look at where I came from, and brings back memories of my life's journey. 3. TMB reconfirms my current thinking, and provides a sense of pride and accomplishment in my personal life growth. 4. TMB helps me understand others point of view. 5. TMB updates me on the changes in the 2x2 system, so I can better understand my family members who are still in the 2x2 system. 6. TMB is a place to reason with the sincere 2x2 and their beliefs, so we can examine what each believe and why. 7. TMB helps me further understand how religion effects people. I learn from others things I have forgotten about my old self, or missed about religious thinking in general, and the 2x2 in particular. 8. TMB informs me of 2x2 news, mainly death notices, of people whom I have fond memories. 9. TMB is a source of new information, books, websites, etc about the 2x2 history. 10. TMB gives me hope that reason will overcome old superstitions. Umfolozi Now a question for you. According to the bible, the unbeliever is doomed to burn in hell forever. Why does Umfolozi concern herself with the hopelessly lost atheists?
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Jan 28, 2016 18:54:04 GMT -5
Why does atheist find this board so attractive ? It deals mostly with topic's that they don't believe in,is there not enough atheist boards/discussion sites on the internet ?And even when one asks that only current 2x2 members participate in a debate,some will still poke there noses in. Atheists are welcome here. There are other sites that ban atheists.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2016 11:11:39 GMT -5
I have the freedom on this board to ask questions and atheist have the freedom of participating on this board, I didn't dispute that fact.I was interested to know the reasons why.And another freedom on the side of atheist were to respond to my question or just ignore it . But my thread about CSA I specifically asked current 2x2 members to participate. There is no lack of topics in which atheist could freely participate.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2016 11:31:43 GMT -5
Why does atheist find this board so attractive ? It deals mostly with topic's that they don't believe in,is there not enough atheist boards/discussion sites on the internet ?And even when one asks that only current 2x2 members participate in a debate,some will still poke there noses in. you have to specifically ask that atheist not participate and generally they will comply... Actually in my thread about CSA I did specifically asked that only current 2x2 members participate.
|
|
|
Post by matisse on Jan 29, 2016 12:19:32 GMT -5
you have to specifically ask that atheist not participate and generally they will comply... Actually in my thread about CSA I did specifically asked that only current 2x2 members participate. Not everyone pays close attention to thread titles. If you look through archived threads with titles requesting limited participation, you will find "violations" come from all directions.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2016 12:21:13 GMT -5
Actually in my thread about CSA I did specifically asked that only current 2x2 members participate. Not everyone pays close attention to thread titles. If you look through archived threads with titles requesting limited participation, you will find "violations" go both ways. Yes, I am sure that has happened.
|
|
|
Post by What Hat on Jan 29, 2016 14:10:51 GMT -5
I'm going to be a bit cynical here and say that without atheists on the board 90% of the interesting posts on this board would disappear. Christians just love to tell the story ... heard it all before. It's atheists that can think in new and original ways, which is great in that the world keeps spitting up new and original problems. Without atheists, or let's say, Christian doubters, I don't think there would be any progress in the world. Religious people, Christians or Muslims, Hindu's not so much, often trust in solutions and ideas that have had their day. Want to fall into a pit, then blindly follow a cookie-cutter Christian; it says so right in the Bible.
What is generally true in the world, is also true on this board. The atheists on this board tend to be dispassionate, articulate, progressive and objective. By the way, I am not one.
|
|
|
Post by placid-void on Jan 29, 2016 16:45:32 GMT -5
I'm going to be a bit cynical here and say that without atheists on the board 90% of the interesting posts on this board would disappear. Christians just love to tell the story ... heard it all before. It's atheists that can think in new and original ways, which is great in that the world keeps spitting up new and original problems. Without atheists, or let's say, Christian doubters, I don't think there would be any progress in the world. Religious people, Christians or Muslims, Hindu's not so much, often trust in solutions and ideas that have had their day. Want to fall into a pit, then blindly follow a cookie-cutter Christian; it says so right in the Bible. What is generally true in the world, is also true on this board. The atheists on this board tend to be dispassionate, articulate, progressive and objective. By the way, I am not one. Fascinating! I guess I really have become an old curmudgeon. My impression/experience from reading and occasionally responding to many avowed atheists on this board is quite different from your description, whathat. My impression is that many who don the mantle of atheism are very passionate and it is difficult for me to see the objectivity. I have not noticed a significant dimension for differentiation (based on individual beliefs) of any of the posters on this board with respect to skills of articulation. I am not sure what criteria you are using to assess progressiveness, so I shan't respond to that trait. My sense is that the many responses by atheists on this board are repetitive, diversionary, lack openness/curiosity about other points of view and show little interest in meaningful engagement. There is at least one exception to some of these characterizations who is a frequent participant on the board. In fact, I have begun to construct an analogy in my mind that likens atheists to the residents of Flatland, that imaginary place from late eighteen century Victorian England described in the satire "Flatland, A Romance of Many Dimensions" (1884). My perception is that atheists occupy a plane defined in one dimension by empirical evidence and in the other direction by rational logic that provides relational connections between material elements. The concept that there might be a third (or more) dimensions is an anathema to the residents of Flatland and anyone who contemplates such a possibility must be delusional and must be jailed to prevent contamination of the pure thoughts of the enlightened masters. I don't know just the musings of an old curmudgeon.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Jan 29, 2016 17:53:18 GMT -5
I'm going to be a bit cynical here and say that without atheists on the board 90% of the interesting posts on this board would disappear. Christians just love to tell the story ... heard it all before. It's atheists that can think in new and original ways, which is great in that the world keeps spitting up new and original problems. Without atheists, or let's say, Christian doubters, I don't think there would be any progress in the world. Religious people, Christians or Muslims, Hindu's not so much, often trust in solutions and ideas that have had their day. Want to fall into a pit, then blindly follow a cookie-cutter Christian; it says so right in the Bible. What is generally true in the world, is also true on this board. The atheists on this board tend to be dispassionate, articulate, progressive and objective. By the way, I am not one. THANK YOU, WHAT HAT!
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Jan 29, 2016 18:22:50 GMT -5
I'm going to be a bit cynical here and say that without atheists on the board 90% of the interesting posts on this board would disappear. Christians just love to tell the story ... heard it all before. It's atheists that can think in new and original ways, which is great in that the world keeps spitting up new and original problems. Without atheists, or let's say, Christian doubters, I don't think there would be any progress in the world. Religious people, Christians or Muslims, Hindu's not so much, often trust in solutions and ideas that have had their day. Want to fall into a pit, then blindly follow a cookie-cutter Christian; it says so right in the Bible. What is generally true in the world, is also true on this board. The atheists on this board tend to be dispassionate, articulate, progressive and objective. By the way, I am not one. Fascinating! I guess I really have become an old curmudgeon. My impression/experience from reading and occasionally responding to many avowed atheists on this board is quite different from your description, whathat. My impression is that many who don the mantle of atheism are very passionate and it is difficult for me to see the objectivity. I have not noticed a significant dimension for differentiation (based on individual beliefs) of any of the posters on this board with respect to skills of articulation. I am not sure what criteria you are using to assess progressiveness, so I shan't respond to that trait. My sense is that the many responses by atheists on this board are repetitive, diversionary, lack openness/curiosity about other points of view and show little interest in meaningful engagement. There is at least one exception to some of these characterizations who is a frequent participant on the board. In fact, I have begun to construct an analogy in my mind that likens atheists to the residents of Flatland, that imaginary place from late eighteen century Victorian England described in the satire "Flatland, A Romance of Many Dimensions" (1884). My perception is that atheists occupy a plane defined in one dimension by empirical evidence and in the other direction by rational logic that provides relational connections between material elements. The concept that there might be a third (or more) dimensions is an anathema to the residents of Flatland and anyone who contemplates such a possibility must be delusional and must be jailed to prevent contamination of the pure thoughts of the enlightened masters. I don't know just the musings of an old curmudgeon. Yknot, Did you ever wonder why some of we atheists "lack," as you claim, "openness/curiosity about other points of view?"
Have you ever thought that perhaps we atheists have already been though that phase of being open & curious about other points of view?
At least in my own journey to atheism I did not come to the conclusion by just saying, "I don't believe there is any evidence for a supernatural being.
It was a long, long journey of being "open & curious," -doing a lot of research, asking myself many questions, -phases that many apparently still going through, -which, incidentally, I understand very well.
PS: Your analogy that likens "atheists to the residents of Flatland," is humorous but lacks understanding of atheism.
|
|
|
Post by What Hat on Jan 30, 2016 20:07:08 GMT -5
I'm going to be a bit cynical here and say that without atheists on the board 90% of the interesting posts on this board would disappear. Christians just love to tell the story ... heard it all before. It's atheists that can think in new and original ways, which is great in that the world keeps spitting up new and original problems. Without atheists, or let's say, Christian doubters, I don't think there would be any progress in the world. Religious people, Christians or Muslims, Hindu's not so much, often trust in solutions and ideas that have had their day. Want to fall into a pit, then blindly follow a cookie-cutter Christian; it says so right in the Bible. What is generally true in the world, is also true on this board. The atheists on this board tend to be dispassionate, articulate, progressive and objective. By the way, I am not one. Fascinating! I guess I really have become an old curmudgeon. My impression/experience from reading and occasionally responding to many avowed atheists on this board is quite different from your description, whathat. My impression is that many who don the mantle of atheism are very passionate and it is difficult for me to see the objectivity. I have not noticed a significant dimension for differentiation (based on individual beliefs) of any of the posters on this board with respect to skills of articulation. I am not sure what criteria you are using to assess progressiveness, so I shan't respond to that trait. My sense is that the many responses by atheists on this board are repetitive, diversionary, lack openness/curiosity about other points of view and show little interest in meaningful engagement. There is at least one exception to some of these characterizations who is a frequent participant on the board. In fact, I have begun to construct an analogy in my mind that likens atheists to the residents of Flatland, that imaginary place from late eighteen century Victorian England described in the satire "Flatland, A Romance of Many Dimensions" (1884). My perception is that atheists occupy a plane defined in one dimension by empirical evidence and in the other direction by rational logic that provides relational connections between material elements. The concept that there might be a third (or more) dimensions is an anathema to the residents of Flatland and anyone who contemplates such a possibility must be delusional and must be jailed to prevent contamination of the pure thoughts of the enlightened masters. I don't know just the musings of an old curmudgeon. Nice to hear from you, yknot. I haven't had a lot of time to post lately. I don't particularly object to your flatland analogy as far as atheists, or let's say, rationalists, are concerned. The frustration I have with many, but not all, Christians, is that they treat knowledge based on "ulterior dimensions", a convenient coinage that I hope makes sense in your framework, as if it is obtained from that limited rational plane. Let me be specific. Recently I spoke with a gentleman who felt that I should give equal time to "intelligent design" as a scientific theory, and that my unwillingness to do so meant I was close minded. I grow weary of such ignorance, as I do of Bible literalists and conservatives who treat [their poorly considered solutions to] political and social issues as given by God. Yes, I would like such to keep their brains more firmly anchored within Flatland. But as far as the ulterior dimensions are concerned, are atheists not capable of inhabiting those domains? Are atheists capable of wonder, of human kindness, of love, of a sense of greater purpose. Just because one is an atheist, one doesn't have to be purely rational in all respects. Many atheists just refuse to accept ready-made theology and fixed ideas about things outside their ken. For myself, I have found my experience with the Bible and the worship of God to be transcendental and enriching, but there is much that is said in churches of which I remain persistently uncertain. I enjoy talking to religious people and atheists alike, as I know you do also.
|
|
|
Post by snow on Jan 31, 2016 12:47:35 GMT -5
you have to specifically ask that atheist not participate and generally they will comply... Thanks,I will try that next time! I created a thread for theists only and non of us 'atheists' have gone on there as far as I know. If we are asked to stay out of certain conversations, we usually do comply. I know I do. Interestingly enough when we made an atheist thread only, we didn't get the same compliance from the theists. Respect is a 2 way street. To answer your question as to why? For me it's because I still love the people of my youth and wish to keep in contact with them. Just because my beliefs have changed doesn't mean I quit caring about those who have different beliefs from me.
|
|
|
Post by bendle on Jan 31, 2016 14:15:21 GMT -5
Here is some of one atheist reasons. 1. ex-2x2 AND atheist we are welcomed. If asked to leave I would. DISCLAIMER: TMB is administered by a small admin team, half of whom are professing. The opinions of many who post on the board are not reflective of the admin team. It is our belief that many issues in the fellowship meetings result from the lack of sound biblical teaching that has caused many readers to move away from the only foundation in Christ. New readers should not be surprised or discouraged by the tone of non-believers on the board, who are as welcome as any to post. New readers are warmly invited to reach out to the admin in confidence, we are always willing to answer any questions / provide support and encouragement, etc. 2. TMB for me is part of living a self examined life. TMB lets me look at where I came from, and brings back memories of my life's journey. 3. TMB reconfirms my current thinking, and provides a sense of pride and accomplishment in my personal life growth. 4. TMB helps me understand others point of view. 5. TMB updates me on the changes in the 2x2 system, so I can better understand my family members who are still in the 2x2 system. 6. TMB is a place to reason with the sincere 2x2 and their beliefs, so we can examine what each believe and why. 7. TMB helps me further understand how religion effects people. I learn from others things I have forgotten about my old self, or missed about religious thinking in general, and the 2x2 in particular. 8. TMB informs me of 2x2 news, mainly death notices, of people whom I have fond memories. 9. TMB is a source of new information, books, websites, etc about the 2x2 history. 10. TMB gives me hope that reason will overcome old superstitions. Umfolozi Now a question for you. According to the bible, the unbeliever is doomed to burn in hell forever. Why does Umfolozi concern herself with the hopelessly lost atheists? Exactly what he said.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2016 15:00:17 GMT -5
Thanks,I will try that next time! I created a thread for theists only and non of us 'atheists' have gone on there as far as I know. If we are asked to stay out of certain conversations, we usually do comply. I know I do. Interestingly enough when we made an atheist thread only, we didn't get the same compliance from the theists. Respect is a 2 way street. To answer your question as to why? For me it's because I still love the people of my youth and wish to keep in contact with them. Just because my beliefs have changed doesn't mean I quit caring about those who have different beliefs from me. Thanks, I do find the different replies informing.
|
|
|
Post by rational on Feb 1, 2016 19:38:28 GMT -5
I created a thread for theists only and non of us 'atheists' have gone on there as far as I know. If we are asked to stay out of certain conversations, we usually do comply. I know I do. Interestingly enough when we made an atheist thread only, we didn't get the same compliance from the theists. Respect is a 2 way street. For what it's worth, I created the "Atheist Only" thread as a a joke and certainly expected anyone who wished to join in. Thankfully they did. Otherwise it would have been a discussion with only people with shared beliefs. Not the most interesting. It would be akin to what is referred to in somewhat vulgar terms as a circle-jerk.
|
|
|
Post by faune on Feb 6, 2016 13:50:52 GMT -5
Why does atheist find this board so attractive ? It deals mostly with topic's that they don't believe in, is there not enough atheist boards/discussion sites on the internet? And even when one asks that only current 2x2 members participate in a debate, some will still poke there noses in. Could the reason we are interested in being on this board, the Truth Meetings Board ('The Truth'), is because it is a board about a topic in which we are all related by one common denominator?
That common denominator is a belief known here as F&W's or 2x2's. ('The Truth'). Some are still in the church, some out & some went to other churches, some of us just out.
I find it interesting that those still in often "debate" differences amongst themselves. Those out, "debate" what is wrong with the 2x2's vs their new church.
It is also interesting to note that all of those in or out, but still consider themselves to be Christians, don't argue that the others should not participate on this board.
However, when an atheist says anything, -even though we were once affiliated with that same group, -suddenly we become persona non grata.
Umfolozi, can you explain why some people like yourself seem to feel that we who are atheists should not participate in the discussion?
DMG ~ Your comment regarding a common denominator among folks once associated with the 2x2's I found most interesting, since I have noticed myself that a number of folks leaving the 2x2's have become atheists compared to moving on to another church environment. Could it possibility be the labeling of ALL churches outside the 2x2's as being false that contributes to this phenomena? Speaking for myself, I know how 30 years in the 2x2's affected me overall and when I left over burn-out, I also was very apprehensive about venturing out into the church world due to the negative conditioning received by workers over the years. However, I did manage to overcome this apprehension and eventually found a church that was a good fit for me after some years of searching.
Personally, I couldn't help wondering how those "old tapes" from meeting days hindered my advancement? But, as I learned to identify what the Bible really taught on issues compared to the workers, I was astounded by how much I was deceived over the years by 2x2 teachings and traditions. Perhaps it's just hard letting go of all these lies and admitting to ourselves that we have been "duped" by a cultish group that makes such a transition so hard? Honestly, I feel if we did a poll of how many became atheists after the 2x2's, I believe the numbers would be exceedingly high compared to those who went on to other churches.
Also, let's not forget those who simply became irreligious after departing the 2x2's and lost all interest in proceeding further as a result of their involvement with the 2x2's. Surely, such statistics should speak for themselves regarding the lack of basic Christian teaching received within the 2x2's due to another gospel message surrounding the workers' own Perfect Way affecting the end results?
Finally, in closing, I feel the diversity on this board makes for a good learning experience for all who participate. The variety of opinions shared as a result is truly thought provoking. Without this freedom to express yourself, this board would probably become boring over time and not a place desired to hang out in the future. JMT
|
|
|
Post by matisse on Feb 6, 2016 14:02:43 GMT -5
Could the reason we are interested in being on this board, the Truth Meetings Board ('The Truth'), is because it is a board about a topic in which we are all related by one common denominator?
That common denominator is a belief known here as F&W's or 2x2's. ('The Truth'). Some are still in the church, some out & some went to other churches, some of us just out.
I find it interesting that those still in often "debate" differences amongst themselves. Those out, "debate" what is wrong with the 2x2's vs their new church.
It is also interesting to note that all of those in or out, but still consider themselves to be Christians, don't argue that the others should not participate on this board.
However, when an atheist says anything, -even though we were once affiliated with that same group, -suddenly we become persona non grata.
Umfolozi, can you explain why some people like yourself seem to feel that we who are atheists should not participate in the discussion?
DMG ~ Your comment regarding a common denominator among folks once associated with the 2x2's I found most interesting, since I have noticed myself that a number of folks leaving the 2x2's have become atheists compared to moving on to another church environment. Could it possibility be the labeling of ALL churches outside the 2x2's as being false that contributes to this phenomena? Speaking for myself, I know how 30 years in the 2x2's affected me overall and when I left over burn-out, I also was very apprehensive about venturing out into the church world due to the negative conditioning received by workers over the years. However, I did manage to overcome this apprehension and eventually found a church that was a good fit for me after some years of searching.
Personally, I couldn't help wondering how those "old tapes" from meeting days hindered my advancement? O_o But, as I learned to identify what the Bible really taught on issues compared to the workers, I was astounded by how much I was deceived over the years by 2x2 teachings and traditions. Perhaps it's just hard letting go of all these lies and admitting to ourselves that we have been "duped" by a cultish group that makes such a transition so hard? Honestly, I feel if we did a poll of how many became atheists after the 2x2's, I believe the numbers would be exceedingly high compared to those who went on to other churches.
Also, let's not forget those who simply became irreligious after departing the 2x2's and lost all interest in proceeding further as a result of their involvement with the 2x2's. Surely, such statistics should speak for themselves regarding the lack of basic Christian teaching received within the 2x2's due to another gospel message surrounding the workers' own Perfect Way affecting the end results? O_o
Finally, in closing, I feel the diversity on this board makes for a good learning experience for all who participate. The variety of opinions shared as a result is truly thought provoking. Without this freedom to express yourself, this board would probably become boring over time and not a place desired to hang out in the future. JMT
A Christian suggesting to an atheist that perhaps she just hasn't found the right church yet is like a straight person telling a lesbian she just hasn't met the right man! Just a thought... ;)
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Feb 6, 2016 18:23:07 GMT -5
DMG ~ Your comment regarding a common denominator among folks once associated with the 2x2's I found most interesting, since I have noticed myself that a number of folks leaving the 2x2's have become atheists compared to moving on to another church environment. Could it possibility be the labeling of ALL churches outside the 2x2's as being false that contributes to this phenomena? Speaking for myself, I know how 30 years in the 2x2's affected me overall and when I left over burn-out, I also was very apprehensive about venturing out into the church world due to the negative conditioning received by workers over the years. However, I did manage to overcome this apprehension and eventually found a church that was a good fit for me after some years of searching.
Personally, I couldn't help wondering how those "old tapes" from meeting days hindered my advancement? But, as I learned to identify what the Bible really taught on issues compared to the workers, I was astounded by how much I was deceived over the years by 2x2 teachings and traditions. Perhaps it's just hard letting go of all these lies and admitting to ourselves that we have been "duped" by a cultish group that makes such a transition so hard? Honestly, I feel if we did a poll of how many became atheists after the 2x2's, I believe the numbers would be exceedingly high compared to those who went on to other churches.
Also, let's not forget those who simply became irreligious after departing the 2x2's and lost all interest in proceeding further as a result of their involvement with the 2x2's. Surely, such statistics should speak for themselves regarding the lack of basic Christian teaching received within the 2x2's due to another gospel message surrounding the workers' own Perfect Way affecting the end results?
Finally, in closing, I feel the diversity on this board makes for a good learning experience for all who participate. The variety of opinions shared as a result is truly thought provoking. Without this freedom to express yourself, this board would probably become boring over time and not a place desired to hang out in the future. JMT
A Christian suggesting to an atheist that perhaps she just hasn't found the right church yet is like a straight person telling a lesbian she just hasn't met the right man! Just a thought... Right on, Matisse!
|
|
|
Post by BobWilliston on Feb 6, 2016 18:36:07 GMT -5
Could the reason we are interested in being on this board, the Truth Meetings Board ('The Truth'), is because it is a board about a topic in which we are all related by one common denominator?
That common denominator is a belief known here as F&W's or 2x2's. ('The Truth'). Some are still in the church, some out & some went to other churches, some of us just out.
I find it interesting that those still in often "debate" differences amongst themselves. Those out, "debate" what is wrong with the 2x2's vs their new church.
It is also interesting to note that all of those in or out, but still consider themselves to be Christians, don't argue that the others should not participate on this board.
However, when an atheist says anything, -even though we were once affiliated with that same group, -suddenly we become persona non grata.
Umfolozi, can you explain why some people like yourself seem to feel that we who are atheists should not participate in the discussion?
DMG ~ Your comment regarding a common denominator among folks once associated with the 2x2's I found most interesting, since I have noticed myself that a number of folks leaving the 2x2's have become atheists compared to moving on to another church environment. Could it possibility be the labeling of ALL churches outside the 2x2's as being false that contributes to this phenomena? Speaking for myself, I know how 30 years in the 2x2's affected me overall and when I left over burn-out, I also was very apprehensive about venturing out into the church world due to the negative conditioning received by workers over the years. However, I did manage to overcome this apprehension and eventually found a church that was a good fit for me after some years of searching.
Personally, I couldn't help wondering how those "old tapes" from meeting days hindered my advancement? But, as I learned to identify what the Bible really taught on issues compared to the workers, I was astounded by how much I was deceived over the years by 2x2 teachings and traditions. Perhaps it's just hard letting go of all these lies and admitting to ourselves that we have been "duped" by a cultish group that makes such a transition so hard? Honestly, I feel if we did a poll of how many became atheists after the 2x2's, I believe the numbers would be exceedingly high compared to those who went on to other churches.
Also, let's not forget those who simply became irreligious after departing the 2x2's and lost all interest in proceeding further as a result of their involvement with the 2x2's. Surely, such statistics should speak for themselves regarding the lack of basic Christian teaching received within the 2x2's due to another gospel message surrounding the workers' own Perfect Way affecting the end results?
Finally, in closing, I feel the diversity on this board makes for a good learning experience for all who participate. The variety of opinions shared as a result is truly thought provoking. Without this freedom to express yourself, this board would probably become boring over time and not a place desired to hang out in the future. JMT
My thought is that no one leaving the 2x2s becomes an atheist (or any other kind of non-Christian) unless they critically evaluate Christianity. Most people don't really have the tools to do that with.
|
|
|
Post by Lee on Feb 7, 2016 4:09:15 GMT -5
Apparently, only a political science professor does. Is there any difference between them and a fool?
|
|
|
Post by rational on Feb 7, 2016 10:09:30 GMT -5
Apparently, only a political science professor does. Is there any difference between them and a fool? I don't think it is dependent on occupation. The other question is - Why should a believer become an atheist? If you are happy with your beliefs and you believe there is a god that does whatever it is that your god does - keep your beliefs. For example, if you believe prayer works despite countless studies that show it is only as effective as random chance why would a person change? Change usually happens when observation contradicts your beliefs and the cognitive dissonance causes enough mental stress that belief systems have to be reevaluated. Of course is your beliefs are causing you to indulge in activities, the ritual sacrifice of small household pets, for example, it might be time to seek help to examine your beliefs/behavior.
|
|
|
Post by Lee on Feb 12, 2016 3:26:05 GMT -5
Theists maintain the universe is causative, and in one manner or another, have trimmed their sails. Atheists want to blow around with the wind, and would us all.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Feb 12, 2016 3:58:32 GMT -5
Theists maintain the universe is causative, and in one manner or another, have trimmed their sails. Atheists want to blow around with the wind, and would us all. As is usual for you, Lee, you haven't the foggiest idea about atheists.
|
|
|
Post by dmmichgood on Feb 12, 2016 4:24:30 GMT -5
Could the reason we are interested in being on this board, the Truth Meetings Board ('The Truth'), is because it is a board about a topic in which we are all related by one common denominator?
That common denominator is a belief known here as F&W's or 2x2's. ('The Truth'). Some are still in the church, some out & some went to other churches, some of us just out.
I find it interesting that those still in often "debate" differences amongst themselves. Those out, "debate" what is wrong with the 2x2's vs their new church.
It is also interesting to note that all of those in or out, but still consider themselves to be Christians, don't argue that the others should not participate on this board.
However, when an atheist says anything, -even though we were once affiliated with that same group, -suddenly we become persona non grata.
Umfolozi, can you explain why some people like yourself seem to feel that we who are atheists should not participate in the discussion?
DMG ~ Your comment regarding a common denominator among folks once associated with the 2x2's I found most interesting, since I have noticed myself that a number of folks leaving the 2x2's have become atheists compared to moving on to another church environment.
Could it possibility be the labeling of ALL churches outside the 2x2's as being false that contributes to this phenomena?
Speaking for myself, I know how 30 years in the 2x2's affected me overall and when I left over burn-out, I also was very apprehensive about venturing out into the church world due to the negative conditioning received by workers over the years. However, I did manage to overcome this apprehension and eventually found a church that was a good fit for me after some years of searching.
Personally, I couldn't help wondering how those "old tapes" from meeting days hindered my advancement? But, as I learned to identify what the Bible really taught on issues compared to the workers, I was astounded by how much I was deceived over the years by 2x2 teachings and traditions. Perhaps it's just hard letting go of all these lies and admitting to ourselves that we have been "duped" by a cultish group that makes such a transition so hard? Honestly, I feel if we did a poll of how many became atheists after the 2x2's, I believe the numbers would be exceedingly high compared to those who went on to other churches.
Also, let's not forget those who simply became irreligious after departing the 2x2's and lost all interest in proceeding further as a result of their involvement with the 2x2's. Surely, such statistics should speak for themselves regarding the lack of basic Christian teaching received within the 2x2's due to another gospel message surrounding the workers' own Perfect Way affecting the end results?
Finally, in closing, I feel the diversity on this board makes for a good learning experience for all who participate. The variety of opinions shared as a result is truly thought provoking. Without this freedom to express yourself, this board would probably become boring over time and not a place desired to hang out in the future. JMT
Becoming "irreligious" is not like becoming an "atheist."
No, it wasn't due to any "labeling of ALL churches outside the 2x2's as being false" that had anything to do with my becoming an atheist.
I simply studied ALL religions, the history of religion and the psychology behind why people seem to need "religion" and a "supernatural being" called a "god."
I found that as an adult, I simply did not need a paranormal, supernatural being anymore than I had needed a Santa Claus when I was a child. I found no evidence for such beings to exist and that was that.
|
|