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Post by rational on Mar 13, 2016 14:14:21 GMT -5
Compare the original quote with the edited one that ended up in the declaration of independence and decide for yourself which is more universally appropriate. 5 leaders were chosen to edit the original text. Franklin and John Adams were responsible for much of editing , in time all agreed , not positive why Jefferson lapsed into being slightly offended that it was edited, but the process moved the D of I forward and was ratified by all 13 colonies. Because his version was more universal? A better phrase?
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Post by Hmmmm on Mar 13, 2016 14:58:52 GMT -5
After becoming accustomed to its current form, the former seems to me slightly more wordy?
Other than that they seem about equally Universal, imo.
Do you agree that an editing committee should have helped with its final draft , in principle , making a draft that they universally agreed on (think Jefferson finally did agree to the draft without protest)
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 13, 2016 15:56:19 GMT -5
I know. That makes it American, not Christian. Eccles 2:24 There is nothing better for a man , than that he should to eat and drink, and that he should make his soul enjoy good in his labor . This also I saw, that it was from the hand of God. no discrimination implied, virtues required. ( to enjoy the good ) pride is the enemy of our soul. (helping those in need of help ) And this has "what" to do with inconsistencies within the Bible?
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Post by commonman on Mar 13, 2016 18:15:20 GMT -5
Pursuit of happiness? Possibly a paradox. ....., maybe
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 13, 2016 19:37:14 GMT -5
Pursuit of happiness? Possibly a paradox. ....., maybe Some people are just more American than Christian.
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Post by commonman on Mar 13, 2016 20:25:56 GMT -5
May be so ...
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Post by rational on Mar 14, 2016 1:00:09 GMT -5
After becoming accustomed to its current form, the former seems to me slightly more wordy? Other than that they seem about equally Universal, imo. The surviving statement contained concepts for which there is no proof. Jefferson's original did not.
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Post by commonman on Mar 14, 2016 5:38:54 GMT -5
After becoming accustomed to its current form, the former seems to me slightly more wordy? Other than that they seem about equally Universal, imo. The surviving statement contained concepts for which there is no proof. Jefferson's original did not. are you suggesting you were not created?
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Post by commonman on Mar 14, 2016 5:54:58 GMT -5
I believe universal communism has been proven to be an uninspiring creed .
Likewise I greatly fear totalitarian and nationalistic principles .
The human mind can be exceedingly unpredictable and unbridled viceroy ?
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Post by rational on Mar 14, 2016 11:28:57 GMT -5
The surviving statement contained concepts for which there is no proof. Jefferson's original did not. are you suggesting you were not created? ;) I am suggesting there is no proof of a creator and the meaning of the phrase is weakened by the implication that there is some paranormal being responsible.
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Post by rational on Mar 14, 2016 11:34:50 GMT -5
I believe universal communism has been proven to be an uninspiring creed . Yet some would argue that the verse: All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need.indicated that the believers were a communist group.
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Post by commonman on Mar 14, 2016 14:04:57 GMT -5
I believe universal communism has been proven to be an uninspiring creed . Yet some would argue that the verse: All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need.indicated that the believers were a communist group. yes, living truly with all things common does seem to work , communism as a political power that lives above the common community seems to be proven to fester and fail .
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Post by commonman on Mar 14, 2016 14:59:25 GMT -5
The "creator" less governments in the world seem to be less inspirational or aspirational thought. The desire to be part ofa greater cause , that has providence over our existence . Humanity is dependent on a creator, whether or not we recognize the evidence or not.
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Post by dmmichgood on Mar 14, 2016 19:03:44 GMT -5
After becoming accustomed to its current form, the former seems to me slightly more wordy? Other than that they seem about equally Universal, imo. The surviving statement contained concepts for which there is no proof. Jefferson's original did not. Except for the word "sacred". Wonder if that was the reason that the others changed the wording?
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Post by Yes on Mar 15, 2016 8:12:25 GMT -5
Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. The wretched refuse of your teeming shores........... youtu.be/8vOnDlld5gkThe New Colossus by Emma Lazerus This poem is about human beings that have little Hope for a human life , the poem offers every human no matter how despised they are...(by other humans)... to enter Into a country that offers them a new hope ....a new freedom from prejudices . nice to remember the words of this before we judge other human beings..... Human life is sacred.
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Post by rational on Mar 16, 2016 18:53:07 GMT -5
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Post by commonman on Mar 16, 2016 19:31:21 GMT -5
[] Jefferson's original draft should have been used: [
i]We hold these truths to be sacred & undeniable;
that all men are created equal & independent, that from that equal creation they derive rights inherent & inalienable, among which are the preservation of life, & liberty] If we possess something that is sacred, as a part of us, then we are as sacred as those virtues are part of who we are.
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 16, 2016 19:33:51 GMT -5
Yet some would argue that the verse: All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need.indicated that the believers were a communist group. yes, living truly with all things common does seem to work , communism as a political power that lives above the common community seems to be proven to fester and fail . Communism isn't a political power. Power is assumed by individuals, not their philosophies.
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 16, 2016 19:37:22 GMT -5
Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. The wretched refuse of your teeming shores........... youtu.be/8vOnDlld5gkThe New Colossus by Emma Lazerus This poem is about human beings that have little Hope for a human life , the poem offers every human no matter how despised they are...(by other humans)... to enter Into a country that offers them a new hope ....a new freedom from prejudices . nice to remember the words of this before we judge other human beings..... Human life is sacred. A memorial to hypocrisy. How about some desperate war refugees? ?
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 16, 2016 19:39:12 GMT -5
[] Jefferson's original draft should have been used: [
i]We hold these truths to be sacred & undeniable;
that all men are created equal & independent, that from that equal creation they derive rights inherent & inalienable, among which are the preservation of life, & liberty] If we possess something that is sacred, as a part of us, then we are as sacred as those virtues are part of who we are. How about Muslims?
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Post by commonman on Mar 16, 2016 19:44:59 GMT -5
I believe universal communism has been proven to be an uninspiring creed . Yet some would argue that the verse: All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need.indicated that the believers were a communist group. It might work for a period of time, but the track record for modern communist governments Iis not very good,.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2016 20:10:07 GMT -5
I believe universal communism has been proven to be an uninspiring creed . Yet some would argue that the verse: All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need.indicated that the believers were a communist group. they were VOLUNTARY and nothing like the communist we all know today...
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 16, 2016 23:44:49 GMT -5
Yet some would argue that the verse: All the believers were together and had everything in common. Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need.indicated that the believers were a communist group. they were VOLUNTARY and nothing like the communist we all know today... Does anyone know of a truly Communist country left in the world? Other than Cuba, that is.
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Post by commonman on Mar 17, 2016 0:25:29 GMT -5
they were VOLUNTARY and nothing like the communist we all know today... Does anyone know of a truly Communist country left in the world? Other than Cuba, that is. Maybe North Korea ?
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Post by BobWilliston on Mar 17, 2016 1:25:20 GMT -5
Does anyone know of a truly Communist country left in the world? Other than Cuba, that is. Maybe North Korea ? That's supposed to be Communist -- more accurately described as a totalitarian police state.
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Post by rational on Mar 17, 2016 9:04:52 GMT -5
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Post by commonman on Mar 17, 2016 11:58:23 GMT -5
[] Jefferson's original draft should have been used: [
i]We hold these truths to be sacred & undeniable;
that all men are created equal & independent, that from that equal creation they derive rights inherent & inalienable, among which are the preservation of life, & liberty] If we possess something that is sacred, as a part of us, then we are as sacred as those virtues are part of who we are. Hi ration, this was my reply, : Our lives are sacred because we possess sacredness in our lives.
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Post by commonman on Mar 17, 2016 12:01:23 GMT -5
our lives are sacred because we possess sacred qualities.
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