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Post by ellie on Jan 6, 2016 6:04:19 GMT -5
I am inclined to agree with you. If there is more than materialism, I feel this ‘more’ underpins empathy in humans and also (I think) other sentient beings. As always I have to consider the possibility that empathy may not be more than a product of evolution. I think I would go with the product of evolution. I am not assuming an either or relationship at this point. I would probably begin at the point of making a case for the benefits of empathetic behaviour on the survival of a species. I don't think I would want to assume that something 'more' than materialism would be external to the individual.
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Post by rational on Jan 6, 2016 9:34:42 GMT -5
As for the verses you've quoted above only God can open your eyes to understand them. The verses in the bible are written in text. Usually people read the bible in a language they understand so the meaning of what was written is clear. It seems that what you are saying that a normal human cannot read and understand simple text without a 'special' translation from god. It is evident, given the many, many meanings attached to various biblical text that there is not one special meaning that god provides regarding the text but rather each person believes that s/he is provided with their own 'special' meaning from god. And from there we end up with tens of thousands of ways to serve/worship god based on what meanings the founders of the various sects believe god provided to them. This has all the appearances of people applying the meanings to the text that suits their needs. You, for example, do not believe the bible when it claims, in plain text, that god ordered the killing of every living thing. So you provide a different meaning to that text that helps to ease the cognitive dissonance of a 'loving' god ordering his followers to kill every living thing including infants still young enough to be nursing. The details of the text make what is being described very clear. It is difficult to twist the passages into metaphors or allegories. There is little doubt when the bible says 70 were killed and their heads were put into a basket to be delivered it means that the people were actually killed and their heads delivered. But, at the same time, I can see how this text would clash with the idea of a loving god.
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Post by Yes on Jan 6, 2016 15:59:45 GMT -5
The text clearly says why GOD sent the flood GOD is justified in that He created them/us Is there text that gives us an idea of the exact ages of said, ? Just wondering....
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 6, 2016 17:07:50 GMT -5
The text clearly says why GOD sent the flood GOD is justified in that He created them/us Is there text that gives us an idea of the exact ages of said, ? Just wondering.... I don't see the text clearly stating why GOD sent the flood. Just using the words "wickedness" and "evil" doesn't really say what they were doing that was "wicked" and "evil"I assume that you are talking about the old testament god of the Israelites. Of course there are many stories about the "floods" in other ancient texts with only slightly different aspects of the story and with different "gods."
PS: Again, your post doesn't answer why he killed the animals as well as mankind. How were they "wicked & evil?"
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 6, 2016 17:33:04 GMT -5
Maryhig, -in other words you cannot give any biblical verses that tell you exactly what was that so-called "wickedness." There certainly are no biblical scripture that states what "wickedness" meant.
You tell me that it is ME who must "open my eyes if I want to understand them. " YOU have decided what the "wickedness" was, apparently because "god" gave you some kind of special interpretation.
Your explanation is the reason that there are 1000's of different denominations of Christianity today. Everyone believes that it is THEY that just "know" what certain verses really mean because it is THEY who "God has opened THEIR eyes to understand" and anyone who believes differently has the wrong interpretation.
That is why there is so much dissension among Christians even here on this board.
PS: You didn't give a reason why all the animals were also destroyed. ( "beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air") I didn't say you must open your eyes, I said God opens our eyes. We can't open our eyes. This is a blessing from God. We must repent and turn from our sinful lusts and deny the world then God will give us the holy spirit who will open our eyes and ears and give us understanding. Teaching us all things, as long as we are willing to lay down our lives. The flesh is lustful and desires the world and all the trappings of it. Once we start to desire the world and being tempted, fall, then Satan enters in. Satan is full of wickedness. And if Satan is in our hearts, so is wickedness this is what we have to fight, and this is what the spirit of God puts to death. God opens the understanding of all his people, to different degrees and through different gifts. Depending on how much of our lives that we are willing to give up. As for the beasts, there are different ways of being destroyed of God. If you want to know what it all means, go to God and ask him. "Lustfull" means having "strong sexual desires."
How were people supposed to follow "god's" order to "Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the earth" (Genesis 1:28)without having sexual relationships?
Another thing, just what is desiring the "world" really mean? What are the exact acts of the "world" is it that a person is wanting ?
The terms, "the world, the flesh and devil" are frequently used terms by Christians as the cause for their failure to "please" god.
But just what is meant by that?
Aren't they just the same old phrase used over & over like a mantra without any thought of what they really mean?
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Post by Yes on Jan 6, 2016 18:10:35 GMT -5
The text clearly says why GOD sent the flood GOD is justified in that He created them/us Is there text that gives us an idea of the exact ages of said, ? Just wondering.... I don't see the text clearly stating why GOD sent the flood. Just using the words "wickedness" and "evil" doesn't really say what they were doing that was "wicked" and "evil"I assume that you are talking about the old testament god of the Israelites. Of course there are many stories about the "floods" in other ancient texts with only slightly different aspects of the story and with different "gods."
PS: Again, your post doesn't answer why he killed the animals as well as mankind. How were they "wicked & evil?"
If you create something , do not you as the creator have absolute authority towards the how what and why Do you grant authority for others to abuse it for any reason they should choose to How upset would you be if someone do wicked things to your creation?
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 6, 2016 18:14:24 GMT -5
quote: As for the beasts, there are different ways of being destroyed of God. If you want to know what it all means, go to God and ask him.
What do you mean by "different" ways of destroying them? The topic is about the destruction of all living things (except for a token ) in Genesis by a flood. So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—”
Why, -if the reason he destroyed the human race was because of their "wickedness" and "evil, -why did he also destroy the animals? What kind of wickedness had they done to deserve to be drowned as well as the humans?
NO, I am not going to God and ask him! I'm asking YOU! It was YOU said that you know why "god" destroyed the human race and you justify HIS doing so.
Since HE has opened your eyes to so much, I asking YOU to tell me why he did that. If you can't answer why then perhaps YOU should go to God and ask HIM.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2016 18:51:38 GMT -5
quote: As for the beasts, there are different ways of being destroyed of God. If you want to know what it all means, go to God and ask him.
What do you mean by "different" ways of destroying them? The topic is about the destruction of all living things (except for a token ) in Genesis by a flood. So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—”
Why, -if the reason he destroyed the human race was because of their "wickedness" and "evil, -why did he also destroy the animals? What kind of wickedness had they done to deserve to be drowned as well as the humans?
NO, I am not going to God and ask him! I'm asking YOU! It was YOU said that you know why "god" destroyed the human race and you justify HIS doing so.
Since HE has opened your eyes to so much, I asking YOU to tell me why he did that. If you can't answer why then perhaps YOU should go to God and ask HIM.
its quite obvious to ME that he destroyed everything to start over animals included he wiped the slate clean...
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Post by Lee on Jan 6, 2016 18:56:31 GMT -5
The healthy or healthier believe in something. Their belief ranges from God to themselves but they do. The common denominator of drunks is a loss or abandonment of faith in everything. Lee, Since you are making a blanket statement about those addicted to alcohol, you must know a lot of people who are or have been addicted to alcohol.
Do you belong to Alcoholics Anonymous?
no
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Post by Gene on Jan 6, 2016 19:00:35 GMT -5
What do you mean by "different" ways of destroying them? The topic is about the destruction of all living things (except for a token ) in Genesis by a flood. So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—”
Why, -if the reason he destroyed the human race was because of their "wickedness" and "evil, -why did he also destroy the animals? What kind of wickedness had they done to deserve to be drowned as well as the humans?
NO, I am not going to God and ask him! I'm asking YOU! It was YOU said that you know why "god" destroyed the human race and you justify HIS doing so.
Since HE has opened your eyes to so much, I asking YOU to tell me why he did that. If you can't answer why then perhaps YOU should go to God and ask HIM.
its quite obvious to ME that he destroyed everything to start over animals included he wiped the slate clean...
Guess it was a good time to be a fish.
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Post by xna on Jan 6, 2016 21:36:07 GMT -5
its quite obvious to ME that he destroyed everything to start over animals included he wiped the slate clean...
So even the animals were "not perfect"? Being perfect seems to be the NT goal. The NT says; "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Yet if a Christian was able to be perfect then he wouldn't need the Jesus perfect plan. I know the company line is "free will" causes imperfection, but I wonder; non human animals also have free will? The story also seems strange in that, god needed to wipe out all the animals and most people because they were not perfect, yet we find each "kind" of atom/ ions /isotopes in universe to be perfectly the same.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2016 21:50:40 GMT -5
its quite obvious to ME that he destroyed everything to start over animals included he wiped the slate clean...
So even the animals were "not perfect"? Being perfect seems to be the NT goal. The NT says; "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Yet if a Christian was able to be perfect then he wouldn't need the Jesus perfect plan. I know the company line is "free will" causes imperfection, but I wonder; non human animals also have free will? The story also seems strange in that, god needed to wipe out all the animals and most people because they were not perfect, yet we find each "kind" of atom/ ions /isotopes in universe to be perfectly the same. sometimes ones actions have consequences that affect others that had nothing to do with said action, the jews learned this lesson many times...
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Post by xna on Jan 6, 2016 22:17:07 GMT -5
So even the animals were "not perfect"? Being perfect seems to be the NT goal. The NT says; "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Yet if a Christian was able to be perfect then he wouldn't need the Jesus perfect plan. I know the company line is "free will" causes imperfection, but I wonder; non human animals also have free will? The story also seems strange in that, god needed to wipe out all the animals and most people because they were not perfect, yet we find each "kind" of atom/ ions /isotopes in universe to be perfectly the same. sometimes ones actions have consequences that affect others that had nothing to do with said action, the jews learned this lesson many times... Those sinful animals at it again.
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Post by bubbles on Jan 7, 2016 7:01:47 GMT -5
I enjoy hanging with people who believe in a god. Generally they are gracious, promote peace, care and show love to others. Are soft hearted and compassionate. Nice to be around. Grateful for small things, understanding and kindhearted. These believers by the way they live their lives and treat others are a joy to be with. The essence of who they are is pleasant they are not divisive, angry, cruel or mean spirited. This is evedidence for me that the oneness or unity of spirit amongst humans exists. There is an unseen common denominator I will call universal spirit. By definition a god that through love and worship results in humans producing goodness in their lives motivated by loving their god.
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Post by rational on Jan 7, 2016 9:11:20 GMT -5
I enjoy hanging with people who believe in a god. Generally they are gracious, promote peace, care and show love to others. Are soft hearted and compassionate. Nice to be around. Grateful for small things, understanding and kindhearted. These believers by the way they live their lives and treat others are a joy to be with. The essence of who they are is pleasant they are not divisive, angry, cruel or mean spirited. And it is your belief that people are like this because they believe in god? Since the vast majority of people on earth do believe in god and only a small fraction do not believe in god how can you explain the various behaviors seen in the world? Do you really think it is just the minority who do not believe in god that are causing problems? I believe there are theists who are gracious, promote peace, care and show love to others. Are soft hearted and compassionate. Nice to be around. Grateful for small things, understanding and kindhearted. I also believe there are atheists who are gracious, promote peace, care and show love to others. Are soft hearted and compassionate. Nice to be around. Grateful for small things, understanding and kindhearted. I find it very difficult to believe that the belief in a paranormal being makes people behave the way they do.
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Post by bubbles on Jan 7, 2016 10:12:48 GMT -5
I enjoy hanging with people who believe in a god. Generally they are gracious, promote peace, care and show love to others. Are soft hearted and compassionate. Nice to be around. Grateful for small things, understanding and kindhearted. These believers by the way they live their lives and treat others are a joy to be with. The essence of who they are is pleasant they are not divisive, angry, cruel or mean spirited. And it is your belief that people are like this because they believe in god? Since the vast majority of people on earth do believe in god and only a small fraction do not believe in god how can you explain the various behaviors seen in the world? Do you really think it is just the minority who do not believe in god that are causing problems? I believe there are theists who are gracious, promote peace, care and show love to others. Are soft hearted and compassionate. Nice to be around. Grateful for small things, understanding and kindhearted. I also believe there are atheists who are gracious, promote peace, care and show love to others. Are soft hearted and compassionate. Nice to be around. Grateful for small things, understanding and kindhearted. I find it very difficult to believe that the belief in a paranormal being makes people behave the way they do. Have you ever experienced unity of spirit? I thought you would know by now about believers trying to overcome problems in their life. The results of that are what I am referring too.
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Post by rational on Jan 7, 2016 13:53:38 GMT -5
Have you ever experienced unity of spirit? I don't know since I am not familiar with the term and do not believe in spirits. Can you explain at least the outward experience? I am familiar with people of all beliefs working to overcome problems in their life and problems with their mental state. My experience has been that those who left the needed changes to a paranormal being fared worse than those who addressed their problems directly. The same sort of success rate can be seen when the treatment of a pedophile is left in god's hands - more children are harmed. Do you mean the results of prayer or supplication to a higher power being the agent of change? What indication do you have that the results are better than chance?
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Post by bubbles on Jan 7, 2016 17:09:11 GMT -5
Have you ever experienced unity of spirit? I don't know since I am not familiar with the term and do not believe in spirits. Can you explain at least the outward experience? I am familiar with people of all beliefs working to overcome problems in their life and problems with their mental state. My experience has been that those who left the needed changes to a paranormal being fared worse than those who addressed their problems directly. The same sort of success rate can be seen when the treatment of a pedophile is left in god's hands - more children are harmed. Do you mean the results of prayer or supplication to a higher power being the agent of change? What indication do you have that the results are better than chance? Do you understand intuitive things? Insight. A sense in your gut something is wrong? Spiritual unity is more than harmony or agreement. It feels complete conflict is totally absent. We are emotional feeling beings. There is no outward experience. Can you feel peace in a room? Or can you feel darkness or coldness in a room. Or fear. You switch me off when you drag up pedophiles when im trying to help you understand something. I dont believe pedophiles are true believers. They are predators. The results of overcoming any charactor flaw or personal problem within our lives. Begins with loving your god and wanting to be a better person. Who wants to be a badass all the time? Most strive to be good.
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Post by rational on Jan 7, 2016 20:18:59 GMT -5
Do you understand intuitive things? Insight. I do understand that some people think they are intuitive but multiple studies have showed that it does not in fact produce results any better than random chance. People feel a lot of things for a lot of different reasons. Did you ever have a feeling in your gut that something was amiss but in reality nothing was? Yes, emotions frequently created by the release of various hormones. Actually, peace is not something that can fill anything. It is something that exists between entities. And yes, as most people I can sense darkness (the lack of light) or coldness (the lack of heat) in a room. Of course you want to ignore the the unpleasant things that do not fit into your worldview. You don't think pedophiles are true believers but it has been learned that tumors in the brain or post-seizure activity can cause a person to become uncontrollably sexually attracted to young children (see Klüver-Bucy Syndrome). Who is to say the person is not a true believer any more that to say that someone with a virus is suddenly not a true believer. For a person suffering with a brain tumor, loving your god and wanting to be a better person amounts to nothing. Surgery is usually the cure. You need to understand that people are not always responsible for their behavior. And it is not being infested with demons. You can learn more about this here.
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Post by Yes on Jan 8, 2016 1:19:52 GMT -5
I believe the proper response for people that have wicked desires is to pray that God would take away the wicked desire before it is manifested outwardly by action inappropriate action which Certtainly harm innocent lives . I hope we can all agree that we should never feed wrong desires whatever they are
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Post by Yes on Jan 8, 2016 1:28:33 GMT -5
Perhaps selecting from a list of attributes generally attributed to paranormal beings would help with objective terms. Here is a starting list: Eternal Holy Unchanging/Immutable Impassable Infinite Omnipotent Omnipresence/Immanence Omnisapience Omniscience Simple Self-existent Self-sufficient Immaterial Good Love Gracious Merciful Just Sovereign Freedom Jealous Transcendent Creator Personal Incomprehensible Morally perfect Make your selections and "build a god". That's a good starting point to understand who our Creator is thanks for sharing this! ?
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 8, 2016 2:20:32 GMT -5
What do you mean by "different" ways of destroying them? The topic is about the destruction of all living things (except for a token ) in Genesis by a flood. So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—”
Why, -if the reason he destroyed the human race was because of their "wickedness" and "evil, -why did he also destroy the animals? What kind of wickedness had they done to deserve to be drowned as well as the humans?
NO, I am not going to God and ask him! I'm asking YOU! It was YOU said that you know why "god" destroyed the human race and you justify HIS doing so.
Since HE has opened your eyes to so much, I asking YOU to tell me why he did that. If you can't answer why then perhaps YOU should go to God and ask HIM.
its quite obvious to ME that he destroyed everything to start over animals included he wiped the slate clean...
Well, I suppose that does make about as much sense as to the morality of the supposed "loving" GOD that took the life of the innocent son of David & Bathsheba for their "sin!"
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Post by Yes on Jan 8, 2016 2:46:19 GMT -5
its quite obvious to ME that he destroyed everything to start over animals included he wiped the slate clean...
Well, I suppose that as to the morality of the supposed "loving" GOD that took the life of the innocent son of David & Bathsheba for their "sin!" Hey not so fast! Can I rightfully call you a mean cruel person?
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Post by dmmichgood on Jan 8, 2016 4:13:46 GMT -5
Well, I suppose that as to the morality of the supposed "loving" GOD that took the life of the innocent son of David & Bathsheba for their "sin!" Hey not so fast! Can I rightfully call you a mean cruel person? It is up to you to call me what you please. Although consider this.
Would you believe that indeed you would have the right to call me a mean & cruel person if I did what "god" did?
Don't Christians believe that "god" made mankind in HIS image?
If "god," can commit geneocide, -as He did with ordering the Israelites to kill all the the Amalakites, -or as HE did when he killed everyone with a flood except for a token few, -or when HE take the life of an innocent life for a sin of his father - if I am made in his image, shouldn't I be able to do the same without condemnation from you as being a mean & cruel person?
After all, I'd not doing anything HE hasn't done.
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Post by Yes on Jan 8, 2016 4:57:51 GMT -5
There's a big difference between us and our Creator
Our Creator gives life and takes life back we have humans that unjustly take a life that certainly doesn't belong of them
Keep in mind this is the same creator that established the 10 Commandments describing the wrong for one human to take the wife of another in our Creators eyes we cannot take what belongs to another
You me understand that our creator is Jost in everything he does and to say otherwise without knowing who the creator is seems unjustifiable in my opinion thankyou
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Post by Yes on Jan 8, 2016 5:02:10 GMT -5
Auto correct errors : Just instead of Jost, Life instead of wife Thanks
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Post by bubbles on Jan 8, 2016 6:23:17 GMT -5
Do you understand intuitive things? Insight. I do understand that some people think they are intuitive but multiple studies have showed that it does not in fact produce results any better than random chance. People feel a lot of things for a lot of different reasons. Did you ever have a feeling in your gut that something was amiss but in reality nothing was? Yes, emotions frequently created by the release of various hormones. Actually, peace is not something that can fill anything. It is something that exists between entities. And yes, as most people I can sense darkness (the lack of light) or coldness (the lack of heat) in a room. Of course you want to ignore the the unpleasant things that do not fit into your worldview. You don't think pedophiles are true believers but it has been learned that tumors in the brain or post-seizure activity can cause a person to become uncontrollably sexually attracted to young children (see Klüver-Bucy Syndrome). Who is to say the person is not a true believer any more that to say that someone with a virus is suddenly not a true believer. For a person suffering with a brain tumor, loving your god and wanting to be a better person amounts to nothing. Surgery is usually the cure. You need to understand that people are not always responsible for their behavior. And it is not being infested with demons. You can learn more about this here.The original comments were about people changing for the better. Instead of discussing that you predictably stepped sideways to try and discuss pedophiles a topic you seem to be more comfortable with. Show me where I mentioned demons?
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Post by bubbles on Jan 8, 2016 11:56:15 GMT -5
I do understand that some people think they are intuitive but multiple studies have showed that it does not in fact produce results any better than random chance. People feel a lot of things for a lot of different reasons. Did you ever have a feeling in your gut that something was amiss but in reality nothing was? Yes, emotions frequently created by the release of various hormones. Actually, peace is not something that can fill anything. It is something that exists between entities. And yes, as most people I can sense darkness (the lack of light) or coldness (the lack of heat) in a room. Of course you want to ignore the the unpleasant things that do not fit into your worldview. You don't think pedophiles are true believers but it has been learned that tumors in the brain or post-seizure activity can cause a person to become uncontrollably sexually attracted to young children (see Klüver-Bucy Syndrome). Who is to say the person is not a true believer any more that to say that someone with a virus is suddenly not a true believer. For a person suffering with a brain tumor, loving your god and wanting to be a better person amounts to nothing. Surgery is usually the cure. You need to understand that people are not always responsible for their behavior. And it is not being infested with demons. You can learn more about this here.The original comments were about people changing for the better. Instead of discussing that you predictably stepped sideways to try and discuss pedophiles a topic you seem to be more comfortable with. So you have never known the peace that passes understanding. You have had a glimpse of my worldview. Certainly not completely. I dont ever reveal my whole mind would be foolish. Show me where I mentioned demons? Anyone ever told you you jump to conclusions.
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