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Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Dec 1, 2015 20:16:40 GMT -5
Would anyone be interested in a series of threads for a serious search for God? People who have already found him, or discovered that no god exists, this thread isn't for you. Closed minds are of no help.
The search would take seriously: 1. The mystery of life, the cosmos, consciousness, goodness, inbred morality, miracle experiences and more 2. Both the limitations and the magnificence of the Bible 3. The fact that many denominations--indeed, many religions--feel the Spirit and are equally convinced of God's participation in their life 4. Human fallibility and contradictory beliefs: though we are convinced of our beliefs, the vast majority of us (if not all of us) are likely flat out wrong about most of them.
etc.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2015 20:35:51 GMT -5
Would anyone be interested in a series of threads for a serious search for God? People who have already found him, or discovered that no god exists, this thread isn't for you. Closed minds are of no help. The search would take seriously: 1. The mystery of life, the cosmos, consciousness, goodness, inbred morality, miracle experiences and more 2. Both the limitations and the magnificence of the Bible 3. The fact that many denominations--indeed, many religions--feel the Spirit and are equally convinced of God's participation in their life 4. Human fallibility and contradictory beliefs: though we are convinced of our beliefs, the vast majority of us (if not all of us) are likely flat out wrong about most of them. etc. Yes, I think this might interest me. I would certainly welcome anything that didn't involve people posting what they claim are god's views when it is clear that they are merely their own views. I would be cautious about including the specific reference to the bible in No. 2 though. There are other religious books. And why start your search for god by focussing on the one place where so far you have failed to find god. Matt10
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2015 21:33:19 GMT -5
i'm not sure you'll find a neutral mind on the matter here...by your name I don't know if your a believer and atheist or an agnostic...would you be leading the discussion?
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Post by ellie on Dec 1, 2015 21:37:19 GMT -5
Interested
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Post by placid-void on Dec 1, 2015 21:46:27 GMT -5
Would anyone be interested in a series of threads for a serious search for God? People who have already found him, or discovered that no god exists, this thread isn't for you. Closed minds are of no help. The search would take seriously: 1. The mystery of life, the cosmos, consciousness, goodness, inbred morality, miracle experiences and more 2. Both the limitations and the magnificence of the Bible 3. The fact that many denominations--indeed, many religions--feel the Spirit and are equally convinced of God's participation in their life 4. Human fallibility and contradictory beliefs: though we are convinced of our beliefs, the vast majority of us (if not all of us) are likely flat out wrong about most of them. etc. I am very interested in yòur proposal. I concur with matt10 and prefer to have the discussion open to traditions beyond the Judeo-Christian traditions we are most familiar with.
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Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Dec 1, 2015 22:09:25 GMT -5
I'm a hopeful agnostic who sux at believing stuff, Wally. A slightly old-timer here who disappeared for a year or so, mistakenly thinking he could find greener pastures on other forums. I could moderate if we really need someone.
Matt, to answer your question, actually I hope we don't focus disproportionately on any particular topic.
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jj
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Post by jj on Dec 1, 2015 23:14:35 GMT -5
I'd be curious. At the moment I identify as agnostic, sometimes I feel like God's there, other times I don't have any belief at all. I feel as though I understand parts of the bible well, and I do like the wisdom in some verses, but I don't believe in other parts. I guess I've always thought that if God is there, that He's very different to how He is thought of by man.
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Post by findingtruth on Dec 1, 2015 23:49:34 GMT -5
Would anyone be interested in a series of threads for a serious search for God? People who have already found him, or discovered that no god exists, this thread isn't for you. Closed minds are of no help. The search would take seriously: 1. The mystery of life, the cosmos, consciousness, goodness, inbred morality, miracle experiences and more 2. Both the limitations and the magnificence of the Bible 3. The fact that many denominations--indeed, many religions--feel the Spirit and are equally convinced of God's participation in their life 4. Human fallibility and contradictory beliefs: though we are convinced of our beliefs, the vast majority of us (if not all of us) are likely flat out wrong about most of them. etc. I'm interested as well!
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Post by rational on Dec 2, 2015 2:25:21 GMT -5
Would anyone be interested in a series of threads for a serious search for God? People who have already found him, or discovered that no god exists, this thread isn't for you. Closed minds are of no help. The search would take seriously: 1. The mystery of life, the cosmos, consciousness, goodness, inbred morality, miracle experiences and more 2. Both the limitations and the magnificence of the Bible 3. The fact that many denominations--indeed, many religions--feel the Spirit and are equally convinced of God's participation in their life 4. Human fallibility and contradictory beliefs: though we are convinced of our beliefs, the vast majority of us (if not all of us) are likely flat out wrong about most of them. etc. I doubt there is anyone who has discovered that no god exists. Isn't eliminating anyone from a discussion displaying a somewhat closed mind? For example, if a person did exist that had proof that no god exists, they would be invaluable to such a discussion.
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Post by Brick on Dec 2, 2015 7:48:48 GMT -5
I'd like to follow the discussion.
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Post by Lee on Dec 2, 2015 8:45:34 GMT -5
Welcome back! As you know I believe the story of JC is unsurpassed in richness. I'm glad he was made famous and I'm thankful for believers who truly desire the well-being of all.
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Post by bubbles on Dec 2, 2015 10:06:37 GMT -5
Ive missed you DD. Il try not to comment. You post fascinating topics.
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Post by matisse on Dec 2, 2015 11:08:17 GMT -5
I am interested, at some level, in everything you mention here, though I am not sure I will feel comfortable participating. A couple of questions I have:
Is there a word other than “god” that can be used for the purpose of this discussion? IMO, the word “god” is loaded…I suspect in a different way for each of us; I believe the term will tend to trip up discussion.
I do not believe I have found proof that there is no “god”…however I always consider the possibility that the various “spiritual” experiences that human beings report (including “miracles”, “NDE’s” and “moral choices”) are “local” (e.g. an outcome - still useful or not so much - of our evolution and survival as a species, our proclivity for confirmation bias and tribalism, our complicated and delicately balanced brain chemistry....). Is this kind of consideration welcome in your discussion?
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Post by jondough on Dec 2, 2015 17:28:39 GMT -5
You might want to set some ground rules like;
1. No turning it into a Trinity discussion. 2. No long cut & paste 3. No cartoons 4. ??
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2015 18:00:19 GMT -5
You might want to set some ground rules like; 1. No turning it into a Trinity discussion. 2. No long cut & paste 3. No cartoons 4. ?? The ground rules have already been set in the OP. The OP makes clear that for people who have already found God, this thread isn't for you. I'm confident this basic ground rule should be sufficient to rule out those who tend to engage in the behaviours identified at points 1-3. I actually had you down as one who had found God. Are you sure you should really be here? Matt10
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Post by jondough on Dec 2, 2015 18:04:16 GMT -5
You might want to set some ground rules like; 1. No turning it into a Trinity discussion. 2. No long cut & paste 3. No cartoons 4. ?? The ground rules have already been set in the OP. The OP makes clear that for people who have already found God, this thread isn't for you. I'm confident this basic ground rule should be sufficient to rule out those who tend to engage in the behaviours identified at points 1-3. I actually had you down as one who had found God. Are you sure you should really be here? Matt10 no
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 2, 2015 19:13:56 GMT -5
I Have no use for such a study myself.
You can label me a "closed mind" if you so like, -but I went on that journey a long time ago & have no need to reopen it for myself.
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Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Dec 2, 2015 19:21:09 GMT -5
wow, more interest than I expected. Maybe I should figure out who the powers are here now, and ask for a sub-board.
Matisse, I can understand if people find the word "god" or "God" loaded. Creator? Spirit? Higher Power? Supernatural event causer? Spiritual wellness distributor? Divine brainwasher? Take your pick, I'm not choosy.
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Post by joanna on Dec 2, 2015 19:31:46 GMT -5
*life is shorT be satisfied and find comfort in wHat can be seen, hEard, touched, smelt and tasted. Remain groundEd and keep It real. time Spent searching for the imagiNed is time wasted Live each day tO the fullest by considerinG Others and avoiDing harm. * hidden message
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 2, 2015 20:44:44 GMT -5
wow, more interest than I expected. Maybe I should figure out who the powers are here now, and ask for a sub-board. Matisse, I can understand if people find the word "god" or "God" loaded. Creator? Spirit? Higher Power? Supernatural event causer? Spiritual wellness distributor? Divine brainwasher? Take your pick, I'm not choosy. Doesn't matter really what you call it, -it is still something or someone outside the normal & natural, -something "supernatural or paranormal." When you open that door, you are letting in everything from major Roman or Greek or Hindu gods/goddesses to minor cute wee folk.
Interesting to think about maybe but to believe that they are real? Nah.
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 2, 2015 20:51:02 GMT -5
*life is shorT be satisfied and find comfort in wHat can be seen, hEard, touched, smelt and tasted. Remain groundEd and keep It real. time Spent searching for the imagiNed is time wasted Live each day tO the fullest by considerinG Others and avoiDing harm. * hidden message
*there is no god. Thanks, joanna!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2015 21:00:57 GMT -5
wow, more interest than I expected. Maybe I should figure out who the powers are here now, and ask for a sub-board. Matisse, I can understand if people find the word "god" or "God" loaded. Creator? Spirit? Higher Power? Supernatural event causer? Spiritual wellness distributor? Divine brainwasher? Take your pick, I'm not choosy. one might note that in a lot(not all) of religions they have "someone" who "creates" everything on earth you could start with a creator and not offend too many...
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Post by SharonArnold on Dec 2, 2015 22:10:10 GMT -5
Doesn't matter really what you call it, -it is still something or someone outside the normal & natural, -something "supernatural or paranormal." Ya think? I like how Kabir addresses it: "I laugh when I hear that the fish in the water is thirsty. You don't grasp the fact that what is most alive of all is inside your own house;" Nothing supernatural or paranormal about "it".
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Post by dmmichgood on Dec 3, 2015 3:48:29 GMT -5
Doesn't matter really what you call it, -it is still something or someone outside the normal & natural, -something "supernatural or paranormal." Ya think? I like how Kabir addresses it: "I laugh when I hear that the fish in the water is thirsty. You don't grasp the fact that what is most alive of all is inside your own house;" Nothing supernatural or paranormal about "it". Sorry, Sharon, -I don't get it.
Am I suppose to think that Kabir Khan, the Indian film director, has words of wisdom that I should take to heart & believe that they have some great meaning for understanding the cosmos?
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Post by matisse on Dec 3, 2015 7:14:21 GMT -5
wow, more interest than I expected. Maybe I should figure out who the powers are here now, and ask for a sub-board. Matisse, I can understand if people find the word "god" or "God" loaded. Creator? Spirit? Higher Power? Supernatural event causer? Spiritual wellness distributor? Divine brainwasher? Take your pick, I'm not choosy. "metaphor"? The words are important....especially when they suggest underlying assumptions/biases that might be held by some but not others. You end up with built-in limits to the discussion. I am interested in the use of imagery and metaphor and ritual by human beings in religious settings and otherwise. I would not call my interest a "search for God". I like some of the work of Joseph Campbell in this regard.
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Post by SharonArnold on Dec 3, 2015 11:29:42 GMT -5
Ya think? I like how Kabir addresses it: "I laugh when I hear that the fish in the water is thirsty. You don't grasp the fact that what is most alive of all is inside your own house;" Nothing supernatural or paranormal about "it". Sorry, Sharon, -I don't get it.
Am I suppose to think that Kabir Khan, the Indian film director, has words of wisdom that I should take to heart & believe that they have some great meaning for understanding the cosmos?Wrong Kabir. I was quoting the 15th century poet and mystic. Born into a Muslim family, heavily influenced by Hinduism, critical of both traditions, threatened by members of both in his lifetime, and claimed by both after he died. The concept he expresses is not unique, and is one that has been expressed by many sages and wisdom traditions. David Foster Wallace's This is Water commencement speech at Kenyon College addresses this in a more modern context. And, no. I do not think that you should pay attention to anyone or anything that holds no meaning for you. But sometimes, when we "eavesdrop" on what is most meaningful in other people's lives, we encounter things that resonate with us and enrich our lives too.
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Post by SharonArnold on Dec 3, 2015 11:54:41 GMT -5
wow, more interest than I expected. Maybe I should figure out who the powers are here now, and ask for a sub-board. Matisse, I can understand if people find the word "god" or "God" loaded. Creator? Spirit? Higher Power? Supernatural event causer? Spiritual wellness distributor? Divine brainwasher? Take your pick, I'm not choosy. "metaphor"? The words are important....especially when they suggest underlying assumptions/biases that might be held by some but not others. You end up with built-in limits to the discussion. I am interested in the use of imagery and metaphor and ritual by human beings in religious settings and otherwise. I would not call my interest a "search for God". I like some of the work of Joseph Campbell in this regard. I have always liked Joseph Campbell, and have considered him one of the more significant influences in my life. I like this quote of his (The Hero's Journey documentary): "God is a metaphor for a mystery that absolutely transcends all human categories of thought, even the categories of being and non-being. Those are categories of thought. I mean it's as simple as that. So it depends on how much you want to think about it. Whether it's doing you any good. Whether it is putting you in touch with the mystery that's the ground of your own being. If it isn't, well, it's a lie. So half the people in the world are religious people who think that their metaphors are facts. Those are what we call theists. The other half are people who know that the metaphors are not facts. And so, they're lies. Those are the atheists." This resonated deeply with me when I first heard it (I was still a 2X2) and I did not feel it conflicted with any of my most deeply held beliefs. I have been amazed at the anger and defensiveness it elicits from some people, even ones I would have expected to have understood what he was expressing. When I was searching for this quote I came across a discussion of whether Campbell was a theist or an atheist, based on this quote. My thought: "They really don't get what he was saying". But then, I think I am comfortable with way more cognitive dissonance than most people - possibly because I spend a significant portion of my life trying to go beyond thought, and to rest in the space/stillness/silence between thoughts. Yesterday, I noticed emy's tagline of "Don't believe everything you think!" and I gave a small chuckle. I think all serious searches for God has this as a founding principle.
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Post by Dubious Disciple (xdc) on Dec 3, 2015 13:01:01 GMT -5
I tend to use the word God as a metaphor too, because I wind up lumping everybody's god into the same concept, though it would be cool to move beyond that. Campbell's quote fails to consider agnostics as a category. Anyway, I haven't heard yet from Admin about creating a subboard, hang in there.
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