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Post by joanna on Oct 3, 2015 2:47:50 GMT -5
Buddha, Krishna, Romulus, Horus, Jesus and Vissarion are some of the Messianic figures people have revered throughout the ages. It is interesting to note, in the below video, the adoration the people have for Vissarion who seemingly satisfies their perceived need for reassurance, purpose and meaning. The fact their Messiah lives in their midst and preaches directly to them makes it difficult to refute their claims. Or does it?
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Post by SharonArnold on Oct 3, 2015 10:36:58 GMT -5
Buddha, Krishna, Romulus, Horus, Jesus and Vissarion are some of the Messianic figures people have revered throughout the ages. It is interesting to note, in the below video, the adoration the people have for Vissarion who seemingly satisfies their perceived need for reassurance, purpose and meaning. The fact their Messiah lives in their midst and preaches directly to them makes it difficult to refute their claims. Or does it? Thanks for posting this. I was not aware of this guy before. Something else for me to watch with fascination. People are infinitely interesting. Observing others can teach us a lot about ourselves.
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Post by xna on Oct 3, 2015 12:24:37 GMT -5
The Church of The Last Testament appears to be happy and prosperous on this video. Thanks for the warning by making me aware of them. I have posted below some others that tell a different story. So far their society seems to be working for them. Too bad they can't live this way without all the supernatural whoo. It seems there have been more than of thousand new sects that have sprung up just after the fall of the Soviet Union. It makes you wonder if the emergence and growth of religious sects are inevitable. Moscow and the Russian Orthodox Church are trying to suppress these new sects. I wonder what will happen to this group when their leader dies. I suspect a lot of their material prosperity was imported, and not generated from the facilities. I noticed some common cult elements; leader who has a special connection with god, early childhood indoctrination, they are a chosen few, predictions of a major imminent event with grave consequences and a way of escape, lots of rules on daily life, all the thinking has been done for you, and you need only follow and obey without question. All these controls will have their normal adverse side effects. Perhaps this group will become the Russian version of the Mormon's. I see he visited Jerusalem. I wonder if thats when he went off the reservation, so to speak? Some people who visit Jerusalem and seem balanced before become psychotic while being exposed to all the religious stimulus & religious trappings. For first time visitors to Jerusalem it's not uncommon for a few people to think they are the Messiah, it's called the Jerusalem Syndrome. Most groups are now warned before hand about becoming over religiously stimulated and the risk of becoming psychotic. Christians from the United States are the most susceptible to being overcome by this sudden religious fervor.
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Post by SharonArnold on Oct 3, 2015 14:01:45 GMT -5
The Church of The Last Testament appears to be happy and prosperous on this video. Thanks for the warning by making me aware of them. Ha! I somehow think that you, in particular, are not at much risk! I haven’t researched much on these new sects yet, but as I watched the clip joanna posted, I was particularly paying attention to the children, and feeling a sense of kinship with them. I think there is a huge difference between the psychology of the “born-ins” vs the “sucked-ins” It will be interesting to see how this all plays out under the scrutiny of modern age media. I cannot help but think that their attitudes toward women probably doom them from the start. I also had the thought that their material prosperity had to be mostly imported. In a way, I would like to see Moscow and The Russian Orthodox Church leave them alone, and allow them to implode. If nothing else, it is an interesting social experiment.
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Post by xna on Oct 3, 2015 15:42:07 GMT -5
The Church of The Last Testament appears to be happy and prosperous on this video. Thanks for the warning by making me aware of them. Ha! I somehow think that you, in particular, are not at much risk! One can never be too careful. Even today there are a lot people who claim to be Jesus. It seems to be a time tested method to gain a following Well at least there is some entertainment value.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2015 16:36:25 GMT -5
Mar_13:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. Mar_13:21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
the clue to Christs return is that everything will stop immediately...
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Post by xna on Oct 3, 2015 17:15:23 GMT -5
Mar_13:6 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. Mar_13:21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: the clue to Christs return is that everything will stop immediately... There have been many who claimed to be a Messiah before Jesus. The dead sea scrolls made quite a stir when they learned it talked about a Messiah which predates Jesus. Then there was the famous rabbi, Yitzhak Kaduri who predicted Jesus was the Messiah just before he died at 108! At the end of his life he said he had "visions" where he met the Messiah, and was told he would be returning soon after the death of Ariel Sharon, who died in Jan 2014. He had more than 200,000 people in his funeral procession!
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 3, 2015 18:55:10 GMT -5
Buddha, Krishna, Romulus, Horus, Jesus and Vissarion are some of the Messianic figures people have revered throughout the ages. It is interesting to note, in the below video, the adoration the people have for Vissarion who seemingly satisfies their perceived need for reassurance, purpose and meaning. The fact their Messiah lives in their midst and preaches directly to them makes it difficult to refute their claims. Or does it? Geeze! Another thread here on the board has been about dreams!
So after watching some of that video, just guess what I dreamed about last night? Yeh! I was at this group's commune & watching a some of young people "practicing" how they would bow to this man the call the Teacher!
They were so concerned about getting it just right, that they were practicing over & over again! Crazy! Then again, how like some of us were doing in the TRUTH, -figuratively speaking!
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 3, 2015 20:18:52 GMT -5
The Church of The Last Testament appears to be happy and prosperous on this video. Thanks for the warning by making me aware of them. Ha! I somehow think that you, in particular, are not at much risk! I haven’t researched much on these new sects yet, but as I watched the clip joanna posted, I was particularly paying attention to the children, and feeling a sense of kinship with them. I think there is a huge difference between the psychology of the “born-ins” vs the “sucked-ins” It will be interesting to see how this all plays out under the scrutiny of modern age media. I cannot help but think that their attitudes toward women probably doom them from the start. I also had the thought that their material prosperity had to be mostly imported. In a way, I would like to see Moscow and The Russian Orthodox Church leave them alone, and allow them to implode. If nothing else, it is an interesting social experiment. Right, I agree.
It is interesting to study such social experiments of isolated or exclusive groups.
I would also like to see if they implode or if the original leader is discredited and/or replaced thereby allowing the group to evolve into something like the "TRUTH" did when Irvine & Cooney were ousted & replaced.
Although the "TRUTH" was not a commune as such, it still was a very isolated group as far as being exclusive.
Even the early church formed a commune after Jesus was killed. They had all things in common & distributed them as the people needed.
Why did they form a commune?
Mostly for the same reason that a lot of religious sects do today, -they believed that the 'end times' was near, -therefore individuals didn't need to plan for a future for themselves or their children.
After all, Jesus had said that he would return in their own generation so why would they need to plan for any future? As it happened he didn't come in their life time and we actually don't even know what happened to them. We never again hear of them again as a commune after that first time recorded in Acts.
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Post by joanna on Oct 3, 2015 20:31:12 GMT -5
The name Jesus is synonymous with "messiah" only amongst christians. Vissarion and his peers, including Mohammad, have based their personas on the biblical representation of Jesus yet, as previously mentioned, Jesus shares many attributes with earlier messiahs. Earlier publishing standards likely had lax rules about plagiarism. Almost 2,000 years after a book was compiled which represented Jesus to be the messiah, people are still believing in him, despite the New Testament stating that the Jewish people of the New Testament period rejected Jesus. Surely this knowledge should prompt some questions regarding the credentials of the christian messiah. Christians refer to the Old Testament and use Jewish prophecies of a messiah who would introduce a Messianic age as evidence that Jesus is that messiah. Yet when Jesus presented he did not fulfil those prophecies. Here is a link outlining detailed information why Jews do not believe in Jesus. It presents that one man's messiah is another man's imposter.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2015 20:54:40 GMT -5
The name Jesus is synonymous with "messiah" only amongst christians. Vissarion and his peers, including Mohammad, have based their personas on the biblical representation of Jesus yet, as previously mentioned, Jesus shares many attributes with earlier messiahs. Earlier publishing standards likely had lax rules about plagiarism. Almost 2,000 years after a book was compiled which represented Jesus to be the messiah, people are still believing in him, despite the New Testament stating that the Jewish people of the New Testament period rejected Jesus. Surely this knowledge should prompt some questions regarding the credentials of the christian messiah. Christians refer to the Old Testament and use Jewish prophecies of a messiah who would introduce a Messianic age as evidence that Jesus is that messiah. Yet when Jesus presented he did not fulfil those prophecies. Here is a link outlining detailed information why Jews do not believe in Jesus. It presents that one man's messiah is another man's imposter. it wouldn't be the first time the jews "got it wrong"...
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 3, 2015 23:08:30 GMT -5
The name Jesus is synonymous with "messiah" only amongst christians. Vissarion and his peers, including Mohammad, have based their personas on the biblical representation of Jesus yet, as previously mentioned, Jesus shares many attributes with earlier messiahs. Earlier publishing standards likely had lax rules about plagiarism. Almost 2,000 years after a book was compiled which represented Jesus to be the messiah, people are still believing in him, despite the New Testament stating that the Jewish people of the New Testament period rejected Jesus. Surely this knowledge should prompt some questions regarding the credentials of the christian messiah. Christians refer to the Old Testament and use Jewish prophecies of a messiah who would introduce a Messianic age as evidence that Jesus is that messiah. Yet when Jesus presented he did not fulfil those prophecies. Here is a link outlining detailed information why Jews do not believe in Jesus. It presents that one man's messiah is another man's imposter. it wouldn't be the first time the jews "got it wrong"... And it wouldn't be the first time that the "Christians" got it wrong!
Obviously many Christians think so at least,- apparently that must be why there are so many different interpretations of the gospels and therefore aso many thousands "Christian" denominations!
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 4, 2015 1:38:39 GMT -5
Actually, anyone today who says that he is "Jesus" doesn't really fit the definitions of either a "messiah" or a "Christ".
"Messiahs" have to be Jewish, and they are supposed to be militant.
"Christs" have to be born the product of a god mating with a human woman and spends his life preparing people to join him in the home of the gods when they die. He also has to physically rise into heaven at the end of his life. All the true "christs" fulfilled those requirements. Furthermore, christs don't normally return once their mission is over.
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Post by joanna on Oct 4, 2015 8:18:51 GMT -5
BobWilliston the above link to the article written by a rabbi "why jews don't believe in Jesus" includes "According to Jewish sources, the Messiah will be born of human parents and possess normal physical attributes like other people. He will not be a demi-god, (2) nor will he possess supernatural qualities" Though it would be expected that the Jewish messiah would be ... Jewish. Give these later model messiahs a fair go in a few hundred years folklore will likely embue them with some miraculous qualities including an alternative procreative process: ""Now the birth of Jesus Christ was in this wise. When his mother, Mary, was espoused to Joseph, before they came together she was found with child of the Holy Ghost." Yes, and the Greek demigod Perseus was born when the god Jupiter visited the virgin Danae as a shower of gold and got her with child. The god Buddha was born through an opening in his mother's flank. Catlicus the serpent-skirted caught a little ball of feathers from the sky and hid it in her bosom, and the Aztec god Huitzilopochtli was thus conceived. The virgin Nana took a pomegranate from the tree watered by the blood of the slain Agdestris, and laid it in her bosom, and gave birth to the god Attis. The virgin daughter of a Mongol king awoke one night and found herself bathed in a great light, which caused her to give birth to Genghis Khan. Krishna was born of the virgin Devaka. Horus was born of the virgin Isis. Mercury was born of the virgin Maia. Romulus was born of the virgin Rhea Sylvia. For some reason, many religions forced themselves to think of the birth canal as a one-way street, and even the Koran treats the Virgin Mary with reverence". C. Hitchens.
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 4, 2015 16:22:42 GMT -5
BobWilliston the above link to the article written by a rabbi "why jews don't believe in Jesus" includes "According to Jewish sources, the Messiah will be born of human parents and possess normal physical attributes like other people. He will not be a demi-god, (2) nor will he possess supernatural qualities" Though it would be expected that the Jewish messiah would be ... Jewish. Give these later model messiahs a fair go in a few hundred years folklore will likely embue them with some miraculous qualities including an alternative procreative process: ""Now the birth of Jesus Christ was in this wise. When his mother, Mary, was espoused to Joseph, before they came together she was found with child of the Holy Ghost." Yes, and the Greek demigod Perseus was born when the god Jupiter visited the virgin Danae as a shower of gold and got her with child. The god Buddha was born through an opening in his mother's flank. Catlicus the serpent-skirted caught a little ball of feathers from the sky and hid it in her bosom, and the Aztec god Huitzilopochtli was thus conceived. The virgin Nana took a pomegranate from the tree watered by the blood of the slain Agdestris, and laid it in her bosom, and gave birth to the god Attis. The virgin daughter of a Mongol king awoke one night and found herself bathed in a great light, which caused her to give birth to Genghis Khan. Krishna was born of the virgin Devaka. Horus was born of the virgin Isis. Mercury was born of the virgin Maia. Romulus was born of the virgin Rhea Sylvia. For some reason, many religions forced themselves to think of the birth canal as a one-way street, and even the Koran treats the Virgin Mary with reverence". C. Hitchens. Thanks. Yes, the marvelous saying of any of these modern guys, especially if they don't become well known right now, can become anything their believers want them to become in as little as 100 years. It happened with Joseph Smith -- who knows what can become of William Irvine yet?
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 4, 2015 17:20:56 GMT -5
William Irvine will be remembered among us 2x2...
William Irvine was a Faith Mission, once was one of 2x2 leaders/workers pointing others to follow Jesus New Testament 2x2 apostolic ministry and fellowship. He was in the work as a 2x2 worker officially in 12/1901-1914. He left the 2x2 ministry and fellowship in around 1918 began doing his own thing, having the New Omega followers and died alone in Jerusalem 1947 waiting for John the apostle returns being as the second witness in Revelation 11. Do you really believe that now?
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Post by BobWilliston on Oct 4, 2015 18:06:45 GMT -5
I was only interested in knowing whether you believed your short summary.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 4, 2015 23:43:27 GMT -5
The name Jesus is synonymous with "messiah" only amongst christians. Vissarion and his peers, including Mohammad, have based their personas on the biblical representation of Jesus yet, as previously mentioned, Jesus shares many attributes with earlier messiahs. Earlier publishing standards likely had lax rules about plagiarism. Almost 2,000 years after a book was compiled which represented Jesus to be the messiah, people are still believing in him, despite the New Testament stating that the Jewish people of the New Testament period rejected Jesus. Surely this knowledge should prompt some questions regarding the credentials of the christian messiah. Christians refer to the Old Testament and use Jewish prophecies of a messiah who would introduce a Messianic age as evidence that Jesus is that messiah. Yet when Jesus presented he did not fulfil those prophecies. Here is a link outlining detailed information why Jews do not believe in Jesus. It presents that one man's messiah is another man's imposter. Jesus was NOT an imposter, he told the TRUTH that He's the Messiah who called the Christ, which the Old Testament prophets, Moses foretold hundreds or thousands of years of His coming to earth...... Believe it or not is up to you...1) Jesus claimed and admitted to the Samaritan woman at the well that He himself was the Messiah who is called Christ in John 4:24-25 24 Jesus said, " God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.” Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am He." (the Messiah who is called Christ). 2) Jesus repeated this again after his resurrection to his own disciples in Luke 24:24-27 24 And certain of those who were with us went to the tomb and found it just as the women had said; but Him they did not see.” Then He said to them, “O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?” And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.Later on in Luke 24:41-48 But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, “Have you any food here?” So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb. And He took it and ate in their presence. Then He said to them, “These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.” And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.Then He said to them, “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And you are witnesses of these things. 3) The apostle Peter pointed out to the Jews that Jesus is the Prophet whom Moses, and the prophets spoke about in Acts 3:11-26Peter said Verses 11-18 But the things which God announced beforehand by the mouth of all the prophets, that His Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. Therefore repent and return, so that your sins may be wiped away, in order that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord; and that He may send Jesus, the Christ appointed for you, whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets from ancient time. Moses said, ‘The Lord God will raise up for you a prophet like me from your brethren; to Him you shall give heed to everything He says to you. 4) After Paul's conversion he preached in the synagogue that Jesus is the Christ Acts 9:17-22 17 So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after laying his hands on him said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” And immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he regained his sight, and he got up and was baptized; 19 and he took food and was strengthened.Saul Begins to Preach ChristNow for several days he was with the disciples who were at Damascus, and immediately he began to proclaim Jesus in the synagogues, saying, “He is the Son of God.” All those hearing him continued to be amazed, and were saying, “Is this not he who in Jerusalem destroyed those who called on this name, and who had come here for the purpose of bringing them bound before the chief priests?” But Saul kept increasing in strength and confounding the Jews who lived at Damascus by proving that this Jesus is the Christ.
Nathan, -if you believe that you can prove that Jesus told the 'truth' by quoting from the same source, -the bible. If it is proof doesn't that mean that the Mormons can also prove that Joseph Smith was telling the 'truth' by quoting from just the one source, -the Book of Mormon?
No one can actually use the same book, the same source, -to prove something to be true somewhere else in the same book.
You need independent verification from outside sources. There is very little outside sources about Jesus.
There is also no outside sources that Joseph Smith actually ever dug up those plates which he subsequently reburied.
However, if you try to prove information about Jesus in the same manner used to prove anything about Joseph Smith, -you should be willing to believe every thing written about Smith as well as other 'leaders' of a lot of religions.
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Post by joanna on Oct 5, 2015 19:50:18 GMT -5
dmmichgood wrote "Obviously many Christians think so at least,- apparently that must be why there are so many different interpretations of the gospels and therefore so many thousands "Christian" denominations!" The bible confuses even those who believe in it and the diverse interpretations of the bible's content are consistent with the large number of christian faiths. This fact alone should prompt serious contemplation. It is no wonder that exposure to this book can drive some to adopt a messiah role as seen above. The bible contains conflicting and ambiguous messages and to glean any sense from its' pages is reliant on followers cherry-picking and then discarding, or 'dumbing down', usually through the application of metaphors or parables, other content. How can anyone honestly believe the bible is the source of absolute truth? What standard is used to determine this. And, as dmmichgood mentioned, how does this standard differ from any others used by those who regard the book of mormon or the qu'ran as containing absolute truth?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2015 20:56:17 GMT -5
dmmichgood wrote "Obviously many Christians think so at least,- apparently that must be why there are so many different interpretations of the gospels and therefore so many thousands "Christian" denominations!" The bible confuses even those who believe in it and the diverse interpretations of the bible's content are consistent with the large number of christian faiths. This fact alone should prompt serious contemplation. It is no wonder that exposure to this book can drive some to adopt a messiah role as seen above. The bible contains conflicting and ambiguous messages and to glean any sense from its' pages is reliant on followers cherry-picking and then discarding, or 'dumbing down', usually through the application of metaphors or parables, other content. How can anyone honestly believe the bible is the source of absolute truth? What standard is used to determine this. And, as dmmichgood mentioned, how does this standard differ from any others used by those who regard the book of mormon or the qu'ran as containing absolute truth? we will all find out on judgment day joanna
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Post by joanna on Oct 5, 2015 22:46:06 GMT -5
@wally and NathanB Zoroastrianism preceded the religions presented in the bible and this ancient religion also refers to a day of judgement; that is a key to controlling the masses- threatening fire and brimstone and eternal punishment is a manipulative technique to coerce conformity. However it makes no difference whether you believed in this older religion, catholicism, methodist, scientology or the thousands of others; what does matter is whether what you believe is factual. Once society accepts that 'anything goes', it sets a very low standard and one which has negative consequences for all. It would be very unusual if either of you were to seek medical assistance solely from an ancient book which cannot evidence the recommendations made for you to be helped or healed. Here is an example of the intervention, or lack of, you may receive if consulting an ancient medical text for healthcare. But you don't refer to ancient medical texts for advice do you? So why cling to any other ancient texts which are consistently being proven to contain misleading and unreliable content? "The London Medical Papyrus lies midway between a medical papyri and a non-medical work of pure magic. It contains 61 recipes of which only 25 are medical. The rest, of which part is of foreign origin, is purely magical. It claims to be discovered by the priests of the temple of Tebmut in the sanctuary of the goddess: "Behold! The darkness of the night enveloped the Earth but the moon cast her beams upon all pages of this book and it was brought to the treasury of His Majesty King Khufu".The ancient people who detailed 'remedies' were doing the best they could to improve human health in that era. Just as the biblical writers sought to explain natural phenomena by presenting what science has now proven to be mythology. A salient reason for religious belief: Death is something many people fear and religion is a death-denying entity so people are naturally drawn to this and appear to be comforted by the promise that death is a false phenomena and humans just keep on keeping on in some form or other and likely all but a few experiencing temperature control issues. There is nothing to prove that death is other than a final event; there is no afterlife, no judgment day. When we die, we are simply dead: end of our story
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Post by joanna on Oct 6, 2015 3:06:39 GMT -5
NathanB This video is worth watching; biblical scholars are experts. Those who believe they know more than the experts are at the least inconsistent. As inferred above, you do not seek the opinion of an unqualified and unskilled layperson for medical advice, electrical repairs and so on. The gospel message delivered by the preachers prompted many questions; I sought out information presented by historians, philosophers, biblical scholars, polemicists and other experts. That is how I learnt about religions and why humans have an innate tendency to believe in the supernatural. Literal interpretations of the bible only survive in a mind which closes itself off from unfettered inquiry. I recommend questioning and not absorbing the word of religious teachers as gospel. An effective technique to draw in followers is to evoke the congregation to just have faith and not to question. That alone should raise suspicions as facts thrive under questioning, whilst false information does not. The more questions you pose to any subject, the more you learn.
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Post by joanna on Oct 7, 2015 4:00:14 GMT -5
This is a most thought-provoking and thorough analysis of why Jesus is thought to be god. Bart Ehrman clearly explains how the ideas about Jesus being a god developed. Don't mention the (trinity) - Bart covers this too. A must see.
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Post by dmmichgood on Oct 7, 2015 17:55:45 GMT -5
That is Dan Barker from the FFRF (Freedom From Religion Foundation) who was introducing Ehrman.
That is Dan Barker from the FFRF (Freedom From Religion Foundation). I have been a member of FFRF for a long time & have been to several of their conventions.
They are one great group.
Dan was, as he states, a minster, -I believe it was a Pentecostal church. His story is quite interesting.
One of the instances he recounts that happened when he was a minister was when the husband of one of the members of his church died. The man's wife was questioning why did God did not answer her prayers.
Dan told her according Scripture, she must NOT have had faith enough.
Math 17:20, "And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
Even though he felt he was being true to scripture, he felt it was a terrible thing to say, shifting the blame onto her. Last Edit: 4 minutes ago by dmmic one great group.
Dan was, as he states, a minster, -I believe it was a Pentecostal church. His story is quite interesting.
One of the instances he recounts that happened when he was a minister was when the husband of one of the members of his church died. The man's wife was questioning why did God did not answer her prayers.
Dan told her according Scripture, she must NOT have had faith enough.
Math 17:20, "And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
Even though he felt he was being true to scripture, he felt it was a terrible thing to say, shifting the blame onto her.
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