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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 17:59:29 GMT -5
Standard.
That is one of the words that stuck out to me this weekend at Malcom convention. One speaker in particular focused on this term, and others also mentioned similar things in their messages.
Matthew 12:20 - "A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not quench, until he brings justice to victory." Matthew quoted this prophecy about Christ from Isaiah 42:3. The bruised reed is a picture of the law that was given to Moses.
Reed - a standard used to measure. Moses was given a perfect law for a natural nation - a standard, a picture of Christ that was meant to help people fit into God's plan. By the time Jesus was on the earth, the law had become a bruised standard. The Pharisees were misusing it, abusing it, bending it, corrupting it, using it on other people...not using it accurately or properly. They added man-made traditions to the law. They created loopholes in the law for themselves, while condemning others for observed/perceived shortcomings. They justified themselves with a distorted law, one that was no longer recognizable as the law of God. Matthew 5:17-18 - Jesus did not come to destroy the law, even though He is the perfect standard/measure. He pointed people to the law, because the law pointed to Him. He fit into it perfectly, and fulfilled it perfectly.
Revelation 21 - measuring the new Jerusalem with a golden reed. Christ is the golden standard. In order to fit into Heaven, we must measure up to the standard of Christ. When they built the temple in 1 Kings, no measuring or shaping was done on site...all was prepared ahead of time. Not even the sound of a hammer was heard as the stones were fitted together. Now, today, is the preparation time. The Lord is working on us now, so we can fit into the heavenly Jerusalem at the right time, in our intended place.
1 Corinthians 13:10 - "When the perfect comes, the partial will pass away." "The perfect" is Christ. He never changes - the standard of Heaven will never change, no matter how much humans may change. In the world, standards change according to what people accept; God only accepts the standard of Christ
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 18:00:08 GMT -5
Shared by a facebook friend.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 18:13:28 GMT -5
"Christ is the golden standard. In order to fit into Heaven, we must measure up to the standard of Christ." I wish they would give some clue as to how one does this. Because I fear, if this statement is indeed true, heaven will be completely empty. Just far too vague and WAY too much missing for this to be helpful in ANY way...sad, and what a missed opportunity.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 22:17:26 GMT -5
"Christ is the golden standard. In order to fit into Heaven, we must measure up to the standard of Christ." I wish they would give some clue as to how one does this. Because I fear, if this statement is indeed true, heaven will be completely empty. Just far too vague and WAY too much missing for this to be helpful in ANY way...sad, and what a missed opportunity. repent and obey and God will do the rest, simple really
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2015 22:20:06 GMT -5
"Christ is the golden standard. In order to fit into Heaven, we must measure up to the standard of Christ." I wish they would give some clue as to how one does this. Because I fear, if this statement is indeed true, heaven will be completely empty. Just far too vague and WAY too much missing for this to be helpful in ANY way...sad, and what a missed opportunity. Yes, it is very strange teaching. No-one can measure up to the standard of Christ this side of the grave. No-one - period. It's a pity they don't talk about justification. Paul mentioned this countless times but it does not even rate a mention. Our only hope is that we would be clothed in, and covered by, the righteousness of Christ. And as we are in the body of Christ, in this life, that His Holy Spirit will work within us to make us more like Jesus. seems like you don't believe God can do the impossible, it's called faith
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Post by fixit on Aug 31, 2015 23:34:42 GMT -5
No sex outside of marriage would be a good standard for workers and friends to aspire to.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 1:41:05 GMT -5
seems like you don't believe God can do the impossible, it's called faith I believe God when He says that no-one is righteous and that we can only be made righteous by trusting in Jesus and His death and resurrection. If you know anyone who either measures up to the standard of Christ in this life now or will measure up to Him (ie be completely perfect) then let us know. It would be great to meet them. so you deny God can do the impossible?
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Post by maryhig on Sept 1, 2015 4:45:30 GMT -5
so you deny God can do the impossible? God can do anything So when you are made completely perfect in this life and you are completely sinless let us know. And when you meet someone who has been raised from the dead, after being in the grave for a few days, let us know. Ever heard of the finished work of Christ? I think there are many who have been raised from the dead. And if you are following Christ so should you be. We are dead without God. Dead in our sins. When Christ rises in our hearts, we rise with him and are alive, alive in God! Colossians 3 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. (So we are dead to God when we follow the flesh, but dead to the flesh when we follow Christ.) Those who follow Christ are risen from the dead! Romans 8 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death And also For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace And later on the same chapter But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
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Post by christiansburg on Sept 1, 2015 9:40:53 GMT -5
Standard. That is one of the words that stuck out to me this weekend at Malcom convention. One speaker in particular focused on this term, and others also mentioned similar things in their messages. Matthew 12:20 - "A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not quench, until he brings justice to victory." Matthew quoted this prophecy about Christ from Isaiah 42:3. The bruised reed is a picture of the law that was given to Moses. Reed - a standard used to measure. Moses was given a perfect law for a natural nation - a standard, a picture of Christ that was meant to help people fit into God's plan. By the time Jesus was on the earth, the law had become a bruised standard. The Pharisees were misusing it, abusing it, bending it, corrupting it, using it on other people...not using it accurately or properly. They added man-made traditions to the law. They created loopholes in the law for themselves, while condemning others for observed/perceived shortcomings. They justified themselves with a distorted law, one that was no longer recognizable as the law of God. Matthew 5:17-18 - Jesus did not come to destroy the law, even though He is the perfect standard/measure. He pointed people to the law, because the law pointed to Him. He fit into it perfectly, and fulfilled it perfectly. Revelation 21 - measuring the new Jerusalem with a golden reed. Christ is the golden standard. In order to fit into Heaven, we must measure up to the standard of Christ. When they built the temple in 1 Kings, no measuring or shaping was done on site...all was prepared ahead of time. Not even the sound of a hammer was heard as the stones were fitted together. Now, today, is the preparation time. The Lord is working on us now, so we can fit into the heavenly Jerusalem at the right time, in our intended place. 1 Corinthians 13:10 - "When the perfect comes, the partial will pass away." "The perfect" is Christ. He never changes - the standard of Heaven will never change, no matter how much humans may change. In the world, standards change according to what people accept; God only accepts the standard of Christ Well, I don't believe this suggests that we will be perfect as he is or that we will measure up to what he is. We know that is impossible. What I find helpful in this respect is to reflect on Psalm 138 v 8 "...The Lord will perfect the things concerning me..." That's what I have faith in and what I am hoping for.
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hberry
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Post by hberry on Sept 1, 2015 10:20:58 GMT -5
I love Phil 1:6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 15:21:52 GMT -5
Too many times in the Truth, there was SO MUCH focus on US and less than enough on HIM. Maybe things are slowly changing. I hope so, at least.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2015 16:10:37 GMT -5
Too many times in the Truth, there was SO MUCH focus on US and less than enough on HIM. Maybe things are slowly changing. I hope so, at least. well that doesn't ring true with what's written in all the notes i have mind you focusing on Him causes us to focus on ourselves
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2015 15:31:11 GMT -5
I keep hearing from my facebook friends about how WONDERFUL the convention at Malcolm was this year. And LW wouldn't have been a main speaker. The alleged charges aside, I miss hearing LW preach. I have seen few evangelists with his speaking style. I miss the weeping, voice control etc. of LW.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2015 16:20:26 GMT -5
I keep hearing from my facebook friends about how WONDERFUL the convention at Malcolm was this year. And LW wouldn't have been a main speaker. The alleged charges aside, I miss hearing LW preach. I have seen few evangelists with his speaking style. I miss the weeping, voice control etc. of LW. i notice that you mention LW and that you miss hearing him, is it because of him or the message he spoke?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2015 17:39:14 GMT -5
Preaching style
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2015 18:45:05 GMT -5
so the message didn't mean anything to you? you just focused on the man not the message
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2015 22:13:00 GMT -5
I keep hearing from my facebook friends about how WONDERFUL the convention at Malcolm was this year. And LW wouldn't have been a main speaker. The alleged charges aside, I miss hearing LW preach. I have seen few evangelists with his speaking style. I miss the weeping, voice control etc. of LW. Some will use multiple aliases to distance themselves from their own true personas. As if they are ashamed.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2015 22:19:11 GMT -5
Quote - "so the message didn't mean anything to you? you just focused on the man not the message"
You have got it in a nutshell Virgo.
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Post by fred on Sept 4, 2015 22:37:44 GMT -5
Quote - "so the message didn't mean anything to you? you just focused on the man not the message" You have got it in a nutshell Virgo.Seems to happen on TMB too.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2015 22:50:16 GMT -5
Quote - "Too many times in the Truth, there was SO MUCH focus on US and less than enough on HIM. Maybe things are slowly changing. I hope so, at least." Walker can you tell us what ratio of Worker conversations you have had on this board, to how many Jesus ones you have had? I just looked it up.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2015 23:13:48 GMT -5
Quote - "Too many times in the Truth, there was SO MUCH focus on US and less than enough on HIM. Maybe things are slowly changing. I hope so, at least." Walker can you tell us what ratio of Worker conversations you have had on this board, to how many Jesus ones you have had? I just looked it up.now we are getting into more weighty matters
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Post by Roselyn T on Sept 5, 2015 2:05:29 GMT -5
Quote - "Too many times in the Truth, there was SO MUCH focus on US and less than enough on HIM. Maybe things are slowly changing. I hope so, at least." Walker can you tell us what ratio of Worker conversations you have had on this board, to how many Jesus ones you have had? I just looked it up.now we are getting into more weighty matters Hey @virgo, maybe you could clarify your statement on the addiction thread for us all.
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Post by fixit on Sept 5, 2015 3:46:46 GMT -5
I believe God when He says that no-one is righteous and that we can only be made righteous by trusting in Jesus and His death and resurrection. Ross do you also 'I believe' that God gave his Holy Spirit to those that obeyed him? I'm just wondering if obedience is in your Christian vocabulary at all? Or are you solidly in the 'by grace are we saved' (without reading the rest of the verse and preceding and succeeding verses) camp? It is noted you mention only of Jesus and his death and resurrection. No mention of his life. Have you read verses where Jesus said "Follow me" Have you read verses where mentions losing one's life that we might save it? I think the story is that the Mother of God gave birth to God (who has no beginning and no end). God who can't sin and can't die, didn't sin and didn't die. Yet if we believe God died for our sins we are forgiven and live happily ever after. I trust our Trinitarian TMBers will correct me if I have this wrong.
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Post by fred on Sept 5, 2015 5:12:23 GMT -5
I seriously wonder about folks who wilfully keep promoting this twisted version of another's belief .... the correct version has been expounded time and again on this board, and yet we have this? People who present this rubbish are denying that we are in fact saved by grace (there is no other way). In so doing they are subscribing to the only other alternative which is by works or by 'grace'/works, as if God's grace is no effective.
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Post by whyisitso on Sept 5, 2015 6:17:16 GMT -5
Fred A predictable post! Is "follow me", obedience, self denial part of your spiritual life and daily living ? Does 'fred grace' teach you to deny ungodliness & wordly lusts? From your post you'd wonder if you consider them 'rubbish' & grizzle about workers who would dare mention that grace teaches such? Does your faith have works? If your modus operandi is anything to go by you'll now scuttle back into your hole unable or unwilling to respond when questioned about a post that 'doesn't stand up' Prove me wrong! I'll continue dialogue! so much grace all in one post!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2015 9:34:56 GMT -5
Like Fred said, you either believe you are saved wholly by the grace of God, or you believe the only alternative which is that somehow something you do helps to save you. Which is not Biblical. Believing that grace is what saves you does NOT mean that we are excused from following Jesus, obeying Him or denying ourselves. I don't think anyone has ever said that here.
Anything other than "by grace alone" is not the Gospel. There's nothing about the false gospel of works that makes it "good news". It's not hard to understand why people tend to believe in a more works-based idea of salvation though. It's what would make the most sense in our human minds, appeals to our pride, and stems from a lack of understanding of the extent of our own sinfulness and God's holiness.
Good works do NOT contribute to salvation, but they WILL be evident in a person who is saved. They are not the cause of salvation but the evidence of it.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2015 14:31:24 GMT -5
Like Fred said, you either believe you are saved wholly by the grace of God, or you believe the only alternative which is that somehow something you do helps to save you. Which is not Biblical. Believing that grace is what saves you does NOT mean that we are excused from following Jesus, obeying Him or denying ourselves. I don't think anyone has ever said that here. Anything other than "by grace alone" is not the Gospel. There's nothing about the false gospel of works that makes it "good news". It's not hard to understand why people tend to believe in a more works-based idea of salvation though. It's what would make the most sense in our human minds, appeals to our pride, and stems from a lack of understanding of the extent of our own sinfulness and God's holiness. Good works do NOT contribute to salvation, but they WILL be evident in a person who is saved. They are not the cause of salvation but the evidence of it. Rev_20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2015 15:08:17 GMT -5
Like Fred said, you either believe you are saved wholly by the grace of God, or you believe the only alternative which is that somehow something you do helps to save you. Which is not Biblical. Believing that grace is what saves you does NOT mean that we are excused from following Jesus, obeying Him or denying ourselves. I don't think anyone has ever said that here. Anything other than "by grace alone" is not the Gospel. There's nothing about the false gospel of works that makes it "good news". It's not hard to understand why people tend to believe in a more works-based idea of salvation though. It's what would make the most sense in our human minds, appeals to our pride, and stems from a lack of understanding of the extent of our own sinfulness and God's holiness. Good works do NOT contribute to salvation, but they WILL be evident in a person who is saved. They are not the cause of salvation but the evidence of it. Beth "As an Australian friend wrote in a hymn in our book" Increase our faith when night at hand, death would return our souls to thee. Grant us the faith that understands our only hope is Calvary. The question is does 'beth', 'ross', 'fred' grace acknowledge a grace that teaches to deny ungodliness & wordly lusts? Does 'fred', 'ross ' ' beth' faith acknowledge a faith that without works is dead? You don't have to put my name in quotes...that's my real name. And I'm not sure what you are implying by calling it "beth faith"...
Nor am I sure what I said to make you think I don't believe in denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, or that faith without works is dead. That is just as plainly written in the Bible as salvation by grace. I don't believe that one can deny ungodliness and worldly lusts by pure willpower alone...that takes the power of the Holy Spirit living in me to accomplish. That's where that Fruit of the Spirit comes in...
Works are evidence of salvation, as I said before...proof that our faith is alive and not dead. Anyone can do good things, whether they believe in God or not...so clearly that's not what saves us. Salvation is all of God. I can't add anything to what Jesus accomplished on Calvary. Can you???
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