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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jul 29, 2015 18:15:03 GMT -5
really, it works okay as is....the comments provide the context. Not for what I was wondering. Cherie has my name in the first post as if those were my questions. They aren't. This poll is a perfect example of how to ask questions so you get the answer you want. Again those questions do NOT represent the question I had.
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hberry
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Post by hberry on Jul 29, 2015 18:23:09 GMT -5
really, it works okay as is....the comments provide the context. Not for what I was wondering. Cherie has my name in the first post as if those were my questions. They aren't. This poll is a perfect example of how to ask questions so you get the answer you want. Again those questions do NOT represent the question I had. Okay Jesse, start your own poll or ask your questions here. And let the answering begin!
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Post by snow on Jul 29, 2015 20:24:11 GMT -5
Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth, and NO man come unto the Father but through me."..... Well, the Buddhists, Muslims, atheists, agnostics will argue, contest your opinions "Jesus... NO, you ain't the ONLY Way." The day is coming when Jesus sits on His throne as a judge in the judgment day, He will say, "I told you so!" Either that or Allah, or Zeus, or Brahma. You have no guarantee you are worshiping the right God, never mind worshiping the right God the right way! The Bible is only one of many many sacred books and all of them claim the same thing. I think one of the few that don't claim that are the Buddhists.
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Post by snow on Jul 29, 2015 20:35:26 GMT -5
Another side-step about people in other churches that i have heard is "It is not for us/me to judge." That one makes me crazy, because if you believed that Christians in other churches were saved, you'd say so instead of the "we don't judge" comment. Yes I find it the same when you ask Christians if anyone who isn't a Christian is saved. You know when they answer 'we don't judge' exactly what they are thinking and believe. Nathan is at least honest about it and I respect that. As for did I hear it from a worker that we were the only way and the other churches were false ways. Yes. Stanley Lee Western Canada 1960's and likely before that too, I just wouldn't remember it. Anyone who heard Stanley Lee preach knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that if you didn't profess in the Truth, you were not going to heaven. This was what got me questioning and led me to quit professing when I was 12. I don't remember it as explicitly stated by the other workers though, but it was definitely implied. But I professed through Stanley Lee and I know what he preached. He was a fire and brimstone type preacher, but he was also a great guy. I really loved him and Stanley Sharpe. Stanley Sharpe had a very mild manner in comparison to Stanley Lee though! When I quit professing I also got told by not only the workers but the friends too, that I couldn't be saved if I left. There was no doubt in my mind about the teaching and it didn't sit well with me because it meant a majority of my relatives were going to hell.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jul 29, 2015 21:04:49 GMT -5
I just answered Elizabeth on the other thread but wanted to put this here. I appreciated all who answered my straight up yes-no, no qualifier question. Jesse, the answer didn't allow any qualifiers, so of course it was impossible to answer "yes", for many reasons. Elizabeth I really appreciate the exes that answered the straight yes-no question I asked. I didn't just ask it, I practically hounded everyone who answer without qualifiers. I don't think qualifiers are necessary. Exes say lots of things about those in the fellowship, answering the question "Are 2x2s condemned to hell? with a straight yes or no showed me what you really believe, also it probably caused the people answering to stop and think about it before they answered. I know many people in the fellowship have said many things about other religions. If they had to answer the question "Are they condemned to hell, yes or no?" you would know what they think, and it would make them think before they answer. What really made me free to live "love your neighbor as yourself" was treating everyone I interact with as if they are just as saved as I think I am.
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Post by withlove on Jul 29, 2015 22:32:28 GMT -5
Here's an old post I made on the subject:
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Post by withlove on Jul 29, 2015 22:43:23 GMT -5
I just answered Elizabeth on the other thread but wanted to put this here. I appreciated all who answered my straight up yes-no, no qualifier question. Elizabeth I really appreciate the exes that answered the straight yes-no question I asked. I didn't just ask it, I practically hounded everyone who answer without qualifiers. I don't think qualifiers are necessary. Exes say lots of things about those in the fellowship, answering the question "Are 2x2s condemned to hell? with a straight yes or no showed me what you really believe, also it probably caused the people answering to stop and think about it before they answered. I know many people in the fellowship have said many things about other religions. If they had to answer the question "Are they condemned to hell, yes or no?" you would know what they think, and it would make them think before they answer. What really made me free to live "love your neighbor as yourself" was treating everyone I interact with as if they are just as saved as I think I am. Jesse, that is a sweet attitude to have. I appreciate it. Qualifiers are important so that the whole story can be told, not just some of the truth. I told a worker recently that I couldn't believe that this was the only right way anymore and the response was a side-step, like others have mentioned. Completely avoided my point and said that very few people believe that someone can't be saved outside. It's puzzling to me, because like I posted above, I've never heard a worker say that any other church could possibly be right. But when I said that I think other churches can be right, the worker essentially changed the meaning of my statement.
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Post by fixit on Jul 30, 2015 2:24:31 GMT -5
...when I said that I think other churches can be right, the worker essentially changed the meaning of my statement. I don't consider churches right or wrong, saved or unsaved. They're all made up of fallible people who have different beliefs at different stages of their lives. A better question to consider is "am I led by the Spirit of God?"
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Post by What Hat on Jul 30, 2015 4:41:20 GMT -5
EDIT: Some have suggested a question for "Did you believe it by osmosis"...that falls under the question: "Did you believe it?" Once the Submit Button us pressed, a poll cannot be changed--not even by the Admin.
I regret I did not include the question: "I was never taught it." really, it works okay as is....the comments provide the context. It turns out to be a poll that doesn't show anything. Everyone that agreed with the question answered the poll. Those that don't, did not answer. Judging by the response rate most people did answer. My own responses to the four questions are: no, no, no, and somewhat. I don't know that anyone today preaches 'Jesus only'. Most preach 'Jesus plus give money to our church' and they can be quite bold and crass about it.
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Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jul 30, 2015 9:19:05 GMT -5
...when I said that I think other churches can be right, the worker essentially changed the meaning of my statement. I don't consider churches right or wrong, saved or unsaved. They're all made up of fallible people who have different beliefs at different stages of their lives. A better question to consider is "am I led by the Spirit of God?" The bottom line seems to be in how we interact with our neighbors as individuals, as God does, and Jesus did. "Love your neighbor as yourself" is where the rubber meets the road. Focusing on groups and alleged group think is floating somewhere in the clouds a long, long way from your neighbor. That's why the question "are they [as individuals] condemned to hell" - without qualifiers - is the one to ask one's self. If we frame it that way we realize real fast it not a good way to be thinking.
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Post by snow on Jul 30, 2015 10:23:29 GMT -5
Either that or Allah, or Zeus, or Brahma. You have no guarantee you are worshiping the right God, never mind worshiping the right God the right way! The Bible is only one of many many sacred books and all of them claim the same thing. I think one of the few that don't claim that are the Buddhists. I KNOW Jesus is the right God/Savior I put my life in His hand and NOT in Buddha, Braham, Muhammad... These guys are all dead and their bodies are in STILL in the grave but NOT Jesus. Jesus was the right and ONLY one that God raised Him from the grave the rest of them are still buried in the earth.Actually, there is a grave in India that is said to bear his name. That he survived the cross talked to his apostles and then left because his life was in danger. So I know which story you believe, but I don't really know why?
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Post by snow on Jul 30, 2015 14:45:52 GMT -5
Actually, there is a grave in India that is said to bear his name. That he survived the cross talked to his apostles and then left because his life was in danger. So I know which story you believe, but I don't really know why? hmmmmmm.... Jesus could appear and disappear at will AFTER he was raised from the dead according to 500 eyewitnesses. Jesus had the resurrection body which can NEVER be killed or died. After Jesus paid the Ransome priced for humanity sins on Calvary, He received His former heavenly Godhead Spirit form back... To say or believe there is a grave in his name is NOT too smart if you think about it.Well it is smart if Jesus did live until old age and died a natural death and was buried in a grave. After all, we only have someone's word on whether or not he really was able to pop in and out of existence and we do know there was plenty of motivation to say stuff to make a point to get the new religion going with something 'remarkable'. Since I don't believe in the resurrection just because someone said it's true, a grave makes sense, somewhere.
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Post by matisse on Jul 30, 2015 14:51:59 GMT -5
Actually, there is a grave in India that is said to bear his name. That he survived the cross talked to his apostles and then left because his life was in danger. So I know which story you believe, but I don't really know why? hmmmmmm.... Jesus could appear and disappear at will AFTER he was raised from the dead according to 500 eyewitnesses. Jesus had the resurrection body which can NEVER be killed or died. After Jesus paid the Ransome priced for humanity sins on Calvary, He received His former heavenly Godhead Spirit form back... To say or believe there is a grave in his name is NOT too smart if you think about it.There are not 500 independent, verifiable reports of Jesus being raised from the dead, only one unverified report that claims there were 500 witnesses. Big difference!
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Post by withlove on Jul 30, 2015 15:04:07 GMT -5
...when I said that I think other churches can be right, the worker essentially changed the meaning of my statement. I don't consider churches right or wrong, saved or unsaved. They're all made up of fallible people who have different beliefs at different stages of their lives. A better question to consider is "am I led by the Spirit of God?" Thank you for wording it better than I did-- I agree with you. To an extent--there are some groups with doctrine that is significantly more wrong than right in my opinion. I still believe, after leaving, that false teachers exist who create false churches. The difference is that I don't feel that ALL groups other than the meetings are false...only some...possibly (I hope) few. I don't plan on becoming an official member of any group again, for that reason that none is the "only," and I want Jesus to be the "only."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2015 15:17:04 GMT -5
From the Truth Archive website: Eldon Tenniswood 1982 young people's meetings Why don't people understand that God planned just ONE WAY to prepare people for everlasting life? John 12:40, II Corinthians 4:4. If a blind person was up here and I said, "There is the table and my hymnbook and Bible, can't you see?" No, he can't see. He can feel it. If Satan has blinded people's minds, they can't understand. This is the purpose of the gospel. "To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light." I am sorry that the person who wrote this question is like I was when I first started in the ministry. I thought anybody could read the bible and know what is true. Now I understand that people can read the Bible but can't see the truth, but when we live consecrated lives they can see God is working in us, and that is their hope.
When someone asks if we think we are saved and they believe they are, what is a good answer? God is the judge. Remind them of what Jesus said in Matthew 7:21, "Not everyone that sayeth unto Me, 'Lord, Lord' shall enter into the Kingdom of Heaven, but he that doeth the will of My Father which is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? And in Thy name cast out devils? In Thy name done many wonderful works?' And then I will profess unto them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, ye that work iniquity.'" What do you tell people when they ask if you believe this is the only way? I tell them what Jesus said in John 14:6, "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father but by Me." My purpose is to follow Jesus in His true way.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2015 15:20:30 GMT -5
hmmmmmm.... Jesus could appear and disappear at will AFTER he was raised from the dead according to 500 eyewitnesses. Jesus had the resurrection body which can NEVER be killed or died. After Jesus paid the Ransome priced for humanity sins on Calvary, He received His former heavenly Godhead Spirit form back... To say or believe there is a grave in his name is NOT too smart if you think about it. There are not 500 independent, verifiable reports of Jesus being raised from the dead, only one unverified report that claims there were 500 witnesses. Big difference! you wouldn't accept 500 reports anyways it didn't happen in front of you...
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Post by matisse on Jul 30, 2015 17:06:02 GMT -5
There are not 500 independent, verifiable reports of Jesus being raised from the dead, only one unverified report that claims there were 500 witnesses. Big difference! you wouldn't accept 500 reports anyways it didn't happen in front of you... A modern, reputable news agency would make it clear that the claim of 500 witnesses was based on the word of one single person and that that claim had not been independently verified. IMO, making an unqualified claim that there were 500 witnesses is misleading...at least to those who don't ask questions.
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Post by snow on Jul 30, 2015 17:21:21 GMT -5
you wouldn't accept 500 reports anyways it didn't happen in front of you... A modern, reputable news agency would make it clear that the claim of 500 witnesses was based on the word of one single person and that that claim had not been independently verified. IMO, making an unqualified claim that there were 500 witnesses is misleading...at least to those who don't ask questions. Especially when very few people were likely literate enough to count that high in the first place. It's a story and an unverified one.
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Post by swarupa on Jul 30, 2015 18:26:09 GMT -5
we believed that as that was taught by the workers in the 40's up through 60s when I was growing up. we were taught the workers way was the right way to heaven. when I was in the army in Oklahoma Charles Mitchell taught his way was the right way and did not want his flock to have fellowship with the friends in texas as they were not following the truth. his was the truth and nothing but the tooth and so it was.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2015 9:27:02 GMT -5
Who are the 2 only wayers voting in the poll? Bert and Virgo? or did review vote from south Asia or New Zealand?
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Post by learning on Jul 31, 2015 13:46:08 GMT -5
...what about the teachers, prophets, elders, evangelists etc who made up the NT ministry....let's give them a plug as well The church at Antioch, where believers were first called Christians, sprang up while the Apostles were all in Jerusalem... Every servant of God has to be sent= apostle and called by God... then God gives each with special gifts, some are evangelists, Some are good preachers of the gospel, some are prophets, some are teachers, some are pastors/solving problems the churches and feeding the lambs/sheep of the household of God, some are missionaries breaking new grounds in different countries... However, some have these a few of differnt gifts but others have it all those gifts in their ministry.
All the above gifts are from all different workers to edify the churches and to prepare more workers into the harvest field.
The friends have very similar gifts also.... some are teachers, evangelists, preachers, some are called to be elders/pastors of the church in their homes, some go to a new territories to open homes for the workers, etc..NathanB... If there was someone in your meeting who did not see that today's structure of the 2x2's does exclusively fulfill the scripture you draw from... can you describe your feelings about about being in fellowship with such a person? please note, I am not trying to re-hash the merits of whether or not this is or isn't the exclusive divine implementation of God's 'way' on earth. I am exploring the personal level dynamic of how people can continue be in fellowship together WITHIN this fellowship with one another while not necessarily holding to this belief uniformly.
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Post by blacksheep on Jul 31, 2015 14:52:35 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2015 10:22:37 GMT -5
Some people are quicker to pick up on this belief than others. And some workers stress it more than others. But it is the underlying belief of the Truth fellowship that often takes no name while incorporating itself under other names.
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Post by Pragmatic on Aug 6, 2015 6:23:03 GMT -5
Heard it implied, more by the laity, but never believed it, as I spent time with Baptists and learning at Anglican church. I could see that the church I was brought up in wasn't "The Way", but just another church. The questions don't cater for those like me.
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Post by breakingfree on Aug 6, 2015 18:26:35 GMT -5
I can't vote in the poll using my phone so I'll just answer. Yes, I was taught that meetings were the ONLY true way. My husband was taught this, too. When I decided to leave meetings I was warned that leaving meetings would cause me to lose my salvation. I recently asked my husband if one could be saved by Jesus outside of the meetings. He was emphatic in his answer that "ONLY the workers carry the truth so to be saved one must hear the gospel preached through one of the workers." He was raised in meetings and has never attended another church. The only place he could have been convinced of this doctrine is from hearing it preached in meetings by workers and reinforced by the friends' testimonies.
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Post by snow on Aug 6, 2015 21:09:53 GMT -5
I can't vote in the poll using my phone so I'll just answer. Yes, I was taught that meetings were the ONLY true way. My husband was taught this, too. When I decided to leave meetings I was warned that leaving meetings would cause me to lose my salvation. I recently asked my husband if one could be saved by Jesus outside of the meetings. He was emphatic in his answer that "ONLY the workers carry the truth so to be saved one must hear the gospel preached through one of the workers." He was raised in meetings and has never attended another church. The only place he could have been convinced of this doctrine is from hearing it preached in meetings by workers and reinforced by the friends' testimonies. Yes, all anyone has to do is try to leave and you will hear it loud and clear that you will lose your salvation if you leave and go to another church. So I really don't know why people say it's not taught? I was told straight out if I didn't profess or my relatives didn't profess that we would have a lost eternity. You can't get much clearer then that, I don't think.
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Post by Mary on Aug 7, 2015 2:36:31 GMT -5
When I voted I just pushed the squares on my phone for voting and an arrow comes up no problem.
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Post by breakingfree on Aug 7, 2015 15:27:30 GMT -5
When I voted I just pushed the squares on my phone for voting and an arrow comes up no problem. I dont know why but the poll doesn't even show on my phone. I am back to my laptop so I will voste if its still open.
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