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Post by Roselyn T on Jul 24, 2015 23:45:47 GMT -5
From another Thread :
Bert Royal Member *****
. Post by Bert on 3 hours ago
Jesse_Lackman Avatar
Jul 22, 2015 at 3:19am Jesse_Lackman said: I've talked to workers about Irvine, overseers too, and never got the impression it wasn't open for discussion. I've actually been surprised by the topics workers have been more than willing to discuss.
That's been my experience Jesse. I asked when it all started when I was young and I was told about the early Workers in Ireland. Can't remember Irvine's name being mentioned - but my memory isn't what it used to be.
Given the "sins of omission" employed by Parker and others I wouldn't be surprised if Irvine had a lot less involvement than he liked to make out. He had some seriously weird ideas - what I read today makes him sound like he was reading JW doctrines, too.
As for this "researching" things by going to Ireland - it's a bit like me going to Ephesus in Turkey to "research" early home churches to justify the one I go to now.
And some of the people researching or reading this Irvine stuff openly display an ignorance of the bible.
I gave away my Secret Sect copy, bought another but lost it - there's that memory again - but I really wanted to study how Parker himself imagined that first church operated. And also, what was it that made him Anglican.
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Post by Roselyn T on Jul 24, 2015 23:48:45 GMT -5
Bert, I am curious ! What were you told about the early workers, also you said when you were young, so how many years ago would that have been?
The reason I ask is because as I have mentioned on the other thread, there are still people/workers in Australia that are not aware of who William Irvine was.
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 25, 2015 0:44:04 GMT -5
Bert, I am curious ! What were you told about the early workers, also you said when you were young, so how many years ago would that have been? The reason I ask is because as I have mentioned on the other thread, there are still people/workers in Australia that are not aware of who William Irvine was. Yes, Bert. I would also like to know what the workers told you.
What did they say about those early workers in Ireland?
PS:
too bad you have lost your book the Secret Sect.
New ones are selling from $488 to $108 for used ones.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 1:34:45 GMT -5
Sorry, can't remember when. And I can't remember WHO either ... think we grew up with all the Edward Cooney problems and I might have thought HE was involved. That was a troubling thought because he was one odd and out of place character.
But don't you think a better question to post is when did we, for the first time in our lives, come to know Christ?
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Post by dmmichgood on Jul 25, 2015 1:45:41 GMT -5
But you don't you think a better question to post is when did we, for the first time in our lives, come to know Christ? What did I say? I Knew you wouldn't tell us what the workers told you!
Welcher!
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Post by Roselyn T on Jul 25, 2015 1:48:38 GMT -5
From another Thread : Bert Royal Member ***** . Post by Bert on 3 hours ago Jesse_Lackman Avatar Jul 22, 2015 at 3:19am Jesse_Lackman said: I've talked to workers about Irvine, overseers too, and never got the impression it wasn't open for discussion. I've actually been surprised by the topics workers have been more than willing to discuss. That's been my experience Jesse. I asked when it all started when I was young and I was told about the early Workers in Ireland. Can't remember Irvine's name being mentioned - but my memory isn't what it used to be. Given the "sins of omission" employed by Parker and others I wouldn't be surprised if Irvine had a lot less involvement than he liked to make out. He had some seriously weird ideas - what I read today makes him sound like he was reading JW doctrines, too. As for this "researching" things by going to Ireland - it's a bit like me going to Ephesus in Turkey to "research" early home churches to justify the one I go to now. And some of the people researching or reading this Irvine stuff openly display an ignorance of the bible. I gave away my Secret Sect copy, bought another but lost it - there's that memory again - but I really wanted to study how Parker himself imagined that first church operated. And also, what was it that made him Anglican. So Bert, was this statement you made right or wrong ? Of course being in Victoria/Mildura Edward Cooney would have been the main topic ! But you said you asked, and were told about the early workers in Ireland. Or were you just agreeing with Jesse, to make it sound good ?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 2:12:55 GMT -5
Quote - "Jesse_Lackman Avatar Jul 22, 2015 at 3:19am Jesse_Lackman said: I've talked to workers about Irvine, overseers too, and never got the impression it wasn't open for discussion. I've actually been surprised by the topics workers have been more than willing to discuss.
Quote - " Or were you just agreeing with Jesse, to make it sound good ?"
It all depends who you ask, and importantly, who is doing the asking - and why. There are many nuances to this question. Remember, facts aint truth. People who scream "fact" are often ideological people with agendas. And agenda people (as you should know by now) give you THEIR selective "facts." I have never in my life, when asked "who started your church", said "Jesus" But I should say that, really, shouldn't I? If asked "when did it start?" I qualify the answer in two parts - 1 - "Irish preachers started going out in the 18th Century... 2 - ... living and worshiping as Jesus, his church and other churches in other centuries lived and worshiped because Truth doesn't change. And oh... would you like to come to a Gospel service on Sunday? No money changes hands, no politics, no modernized or updated doctrine. Just Jesus."
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Post by Roselyn T on Jul 25, 2015 5:05:31 GMT -5
Bert, thank you for the invite, so if I did go along to the Gospel Service on Sunday, and decided I was going to keep going, I wonder how long it would be before I had a visit from the workers in regard to my relationship with my partner of 9 years ?
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Post by Mary on Jul 25, 2015 5:11:29 GMT -5
What was odd or out of character about Cooney, Bert?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 5:17:04 GMT -5
What was odd or out of character about Cooney, Bert? He didn't fit in. He looked like someone who had just stumbled onto a convention ground and wanted to know where was the entertainment and security.
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Post by Roselyn T on Jul 25, 2015 5:33:21 GMT -5
Bert, you didn't answer my question !
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 5:42:26 GMT -5
Bert, thank you for the invite, so if I did go along to the Gospel Service on Sunday, and decided I was going to keep going, I wonder how long it would be before I had a visit from the workers in regard to my relationship with my partner of 9 years ? Don't know your situation. Certainly we don't like the idea of "partners" instead of married couples. But if you are coming as an outsider then who are they to say anything? I have invited people to the missions and when they ask "What shall I wear?" I say "Whatever you like. You aren't claiming to be one of us!"
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Post by whyisitso on Jul 25, 2015 5:52:46 GMT -5
Bert, thank you for the invite, so if I did go along to the Gospel Service on Sunday, and decided I was going to keep going, I wonder how long it would be before I had a visit from the workers in regard to my relationship with my partner of 9 years ? Don't know your situation. Certainly we don't like the idea of "partners" instead of married couples. But if you are coming as an outsider then who are they to say anything? I have invited people to the missions and when they ask "What shall I wear?" I say "Whatever you like. You aren't claiming to be one of us!"And then in time, the 'rules' that aren't 'rules' will all be revealed!!
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Post by Roselyn T on Jul 25, 2015 6:02:44 GMT -5
Yes whyisitso, it wouldn't take long for rules to be revealed !
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 6:23:29 GMT -5
When some say "they have rules when there are no rules" they are observing subtleties of conduct which they either don't understand, or don't want to understand.
ie
We don't have a rule concerning dyeing your pubic hairs multi-colored and flaunting them in public. www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2015/07/dyed_pubic_hair_armpits_and_beards_why_do_people_add_color_to_their_body.html
But if you try it then someone is going to tap you on the shoulder and ask you to desist or find another church. So you say "Well there's no rule against it, is there?" and you would be right. But there ARE a lot of rules you just broke which concern your conduct, modesty, standards and the like. These aren't listed other than in the bible, and many would obey them even if they weren't in the bible.
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Post by whyisitso on Jul 25, 2015 6:28:24 GMT -5
When some say "they have rules when there are no rules" they are observing subtleties of conduct which they either don't understand, or don't want to understand.
ie
We don't have a rule concerning dyeing your pubic hairs multi-colored and flaunting them in public. www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2015/07/dyed_pubic_hair_armpits_and_beards_why_do_people_add_color_to_their_body.html
But if you try it then someone is going to tap you on the shoulder and ask you to desist or find another church. So you say "Well there's no rule against it, is there?" and you would be right. But there ARE a lot of rules you just broke which concern your conduct, modesty, standards and the like. These aren't listed other than in the bible, and many would obey them even if they weren't in the bible. exactly what I was expecting Bert. Glad you didn't disappoint
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Post by Mary on Jul 25, 2015 6:29:38 GMT -5
What about the rule that talks about a man looking upon a woman with lust? Why do you just talk about women's dress and not men looking at women. After all it's in the Bible. Modesty is culturally defined, looking is not.
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Post by maryhig on Jul 25, 2015 9:05:15 GMT -5
What was odd or out of character about Cooney, Bert? He didn't fit in. He looked like someone who had just stumbled onto a convention ground and wanted to know where was the entertainment and security.
Wow you must be old, did you know him personally? You're so judgemental there that you would think you knew him really well!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 9:20:00 GMT -5
He didn't fit in. He looked like someone who had just stumbled onto a convention ground and wanted to know where was the entertainment and security.
Wow you must be old, did you know him personally? You're so judgemental there that you would think you knew him really well! I expect Bert will wish to take the opportunity to support his claim by pointing out what it is about how Edward Cooney looked in the photograph below that leads him to his conclusion. Matt10
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Post by Mary on Jul 25, 2015 12:43:48 GMT -5
Cooney on the right with the most moustache/facial hair?
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Post by slowtosee on Jul 25, 2015 13:15:01 GMT -5
Cooney on the right with the most moustache/facial hair? . Doesn't the guy on the left seem like he stumbled in looking for entertainment and security? Hmmm. Maybe the guy in the middle, yup he's looking for entertainment or, or, ah. let's jus pick one and call him Edward Cooney and get this judgment "show" on the road. Bad guy, for sure. Just look at him. Easy to tell. The other bad guys name in picture must be Doug. Just look at him . Can't you tell the difference between a goat and a sheep ? Alvin Alvin
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Post by hberry on Jul 25, 2015 13:19:58 GMT -5
Cooney on the right with the most moustache/facial hair? . Doesn't the guy on the left seem like he stumbled in looking for entertainment and security? Hmmm. Maybe the guy in the middle, yup he's looking for entertainment or, or, ah. let's jus pick one and call him Edward Cooney and get this judgment "show" on the road. Bad guy, for sure. Just look at him. Easy to tell. The other bad guys name in picture must be Doug. Just look at him . Can't you tell the difference between a goat and a sheep ? Alvin Alvin I'm having trouble discerning between "looking for entertainment" and "looking for security." To me, looking for security says suit and tie; looking for entertainment says jeans and t-shirt. So, that would mean a guy wearing a suit coat with his jeans.....rules everyone in this picture out. Next picture, please.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 13:28:19 GMT -5
Cooney on the right with the most moustache/facial hair? Yes, Mary. The others from him to the left are, Jack Carrol, Willie Gill and George Walker. The only two I knew personally was JC when I was a child, and GW when I was in that "work."
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Post by CherieKropp on Jul 25, 2015 13:57:52 GMT -5
Bert wrote: 1 - "Irish preachers started going out in the 18th Century...
Don't you mean the 19th century Bert?
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Post by CherieKropp on Jul 25, 2015 14:02:43 GMT -5
. Doesn't the guy on the left seem like he stumbled in looking for entertainment and security? Hmmm. Maybe the guy in the middle, yup he's looking for entertainment or, or, ah. let's jus pick one and call him Edward Cooney and get this judgment "show" on the road. Bad guy, for sure. Just look at him. Easy to tell. The other bad guys name in picture must be Doug. Just look at him . Can't you tell the difference between a goat and a sheep ? Alvin Alvin I'm having trouble discerning between "looking for entertainment" and "looking for security." To me, looking for security says suit and tie; looking for entertainment says jeans and t-shirt. So, that would mean a guy wearing a suit coat with his jeans.....rules everyone in this picture out. Next picture, please.Click here to see more pictures of Ed Cooney
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 14:03:11 GMT -5
When in that work, told of an account when one of the workers with a goatee was approached after a sermon on the sheep and the goats. The fellow reached out, grabbed the goatee, saying "Well, we sure know which one you are, don't we?"
Reportedly that ended the goatees among most of the workers, with the last being GW confronted by younger brothers demanding him to remove his. That was in about '69 as I recall.
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Post by emy on Jul 25, 2015 15:21:44 GMT -5
It doesn't seem like you are looking for replies from the general public, but wanted to "catch" some who said they have known. But I'll answer anyway. I heard of Irvine somewhere around 1980 when a relative shared her copy of the Secret Sect that someone sent to her.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 15:34:13 GMT -5
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