|
Post by blacksheep on Jul 29, 2015 12:13:52 GMT -5
That's one tree in the forest Cherie, NOT the whole forest. And that particular forest is made up of mostly the same tree, since that forest was artificially planted and did not occur naturally. Trees of a different variety are either plucked or cut down, that is, unless they can successfully masquerade as one of the acceptable variety.
|
|
|
Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jul 29, 2015 12:17:41 GMT -5
That's one tree in the forest Cherie, NOT the whole forest. It's the majority of the forest...whether you admit to it or not. Like DMG says - Prove it! And I don't mean with extrapolated conjecture and opinion.
|
|
|
Post by blacksheep on Jul 29, 2015 12:29:12 GMT -5
It's the majority of the forest...whether you admit to it or not. Like DMG says - Prove it! And I don't mean with extrapolated conjecture and opinion. Prove it! To Who? It wouldn't be worth the time or effort; Those of us who have had any association with the 2s already know its true without any statistical process analysis, and newcomers will find out for themselves soon enough.
|
|
|
Post by CherieKropp on Jul 29, 2015 12:42:36 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jul 29, 2015 12:43:40 GMT -5
If you asked most professing people as directly as I asked exes here I think most in the fellowship would answer like these exes did. "JESSE",you said blunt? snip OK,ROSS REMAIN "BLUNT", TO SAVE OTHERS FROM BLIND BONDAGE. 2x2s are in an unsaved BLIND BONDAGE and are condemned to hell? So it is yes from you? Matisse - no. Faune - no. SharonArnold - no. Maja - no Redback - no, no, no, no, etc Blacksheep - not condemned Roselyn - NO ! Cherie - no hberry - no Matt10 - there is no hell Mary - no xna - no withlove - no Ross Boden - No findingtruth - no gene - no ellie - no elizabethcoleman - No snow - No. But then I'm not part of the books cheering section. It's just one more book stating that their interpretation of what God wants is the better one. However, no one ever seems to see the irony of it all. Snow's comment should be the last word on the subject!!
|
|
|
Post by matisse on Jul 29, 2015 14:18:28 GMT -5
If you asked most professing people as directly as I asked exes here I think most in the fellowship would answer like these exes did. 2x2s are in an unsaved BLIND BONDAGE and are condemned to hell? So it is yes from you? Matisse - no. Faune - no. SharonArnold - no. Maja - no Redback - no, no, no, no, etc Blacksheep - not condemned Roselyn - NO ! Cherie - no hberry - no Matt10 - there is no hell Mary - no xna - no withlove - no Ross Boden - No findingtruth - no gene - no ellie - no elizabethcoleman - No snow - No. But then I'm not part of the books cheering section. It's just one more book stating that their interpretation of what God wants is the better one. However, no one ever seems to see the irony of it all. Snow's comment should be the last word on the subject!! It is not clear to me what you are asking Professing people. Are you asking them if other Christians are going to hell? I do not remember the "blind bondage" bit. Did you edit that in later?
|
|
|
Post by Mary on Jul 29, 2015 14:46:50 GMT -5
Your poll Jesse and the poll on this thread are asking different things.
|
|
|
Post by matisse on Jul 29, 2015 15:18:53 GMT -5
If you asked most professing people as directly as I asked exes here I think most in the fellowship would answer like these exes did. 2x2s are in an unsaved BLIND BONDAGE and are condemned to hell? So it is yes from you? Matisse - no.Faune - no. SharonArnold - no. Maja - no Redback - no, no, no, no, etc Blacksheep - not condemned Roselyn - NO ! Cherie - no hberry - no Matt10 - there is no hell Mary - no xna - no withlove - no Ross Boden - No findingtruth - no gene - no ellie - no elizabethcoleman - No snow - No. But then I'm not part of the books cheering section. It's just one more book stating that their interpretation of what God wants is the better one. However, no one ever seems to see the irony of it all. Snow's comment should be the last word on the subject!! Hey Jesse, I found my original reply to your original question. It was worded like this: "So are we 2x2's condemned to hell? Answer with a yes or no."You changed the question after I answered the original one. I would have answered the new question differently, if at all. I would like you to delete my answer from all future references to this shifting "poll".
|
|
|
Post by Mary on Jul 29, 2015 15:23:00 GMT -5
Question changed after voting? Tell us that's not so Jesse.
|
|
|
Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jul 29, 2015 17:04:06 GMT -5
matisse What you have in read above was my question to magpie's after magpie said this; "JESSE",you said blunt? snip OK,ROSS REMAIN "BLUNT",TO SAVE OTHERS FROM BLIND BONDAGE. CherieKropp's poll question should be the same for professing people, "Are those outside the fellowship condemned to hell?". That is how you will find out what they believe.
|
|
|
Post by matisse on Jul 29, 2015 17:13:02 GMT -5
matisse What you have in read above was my question to magpie's after magpie said this; "JESSE",you said blunt? snip OK,ROSS REMAIN "BLUNT",TO SAVE OTHERS FROM BLIND BONDAGE. The question should be the same for professing people, "Are those outside the fellowship condemned to hell?". That is how you will find out what they believe. As written, the post is misleading and misrepresents my response. If you are going to publish the list of respondents and their responses, the original question must be included. This does not preclude asking magpie a customized question.
|
|
|
Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jul 29, 2015 17:21:09 GMT -5
matisse What you have in read above was my question to magpie's after magpie said this; The question should be the same for professing people, "Are those outside the fellowship condemned to hell?". That is how you will find out what they believe. As written, the post is misleading and misrepresents my response. If you are going to publish the list of respondents and their responses, the original question must be included. This does not preclude asking magpie a customized question. I know, I'm sorry. I messed up the post and didn't include magpie's comment. I thought it was included. That question was tailored to magpie's judgmental comment. It's pretty much the same question - are 2x2s condemned to hell.
|
|
|
Post by fred on Jul 29, 2015 17:53:52 GMT -5
matisse What you have in read above was my question to magpie's after magpie said this; "JESSE",you said blunt? snip OK,ROSS REMAIN "BLUNT",TO SAVE OTHERS FROM BLIND BONDAGE. CherieKropp's poll question should be the same for professing people, "Are those outside the fellowship condemned to hell?". That is how you will find out what they believe. "Have you stopped beating your wife?" No, you will not find out what professing people believe by asking this question. People will want to add qualifiers that are not available in this yes/no question. They will want to say "We cannot judge". (Which is really a passive aggressive way of saying yes.) Or they will say something along the lines of, "If they have an honest heart God will bring them to the way."
|
|
|
Post by elizabethcoleman on Jul 29, 2015 18:32:16 GMT -5
If you asked most professing people as directly as I asked exes here I think most in the fellowship would answer like these exes did. 2x2s are in an unsaved BLIND BONDAGE and are condemned to hell? So it is yes from you? Matisse - no. Faune - no. SharonArnold - no. Maja - no Redback - no, no, no, no, etc Blacksheep - not condemned Roselyn - NO ! Cherie - no hberry - no Matt10 - there is no hell Mary - no xna - no withlove - no Ross Boden - No findingtruth - no gene - no ellie - no elizabethcoleman - No snow - No. But then I'm not part of the books cheering section. It's just one more book stating that their interpretation of what God wants is the better one. However, no one ever seems to see the irony of it all. Snow's comment should be the last word on the subject!! Jesse, the answer didn't allow any qualifiers, so of course it was impossible to answer "yes", for many reasons. The main reason being - because exes don't believe the Two-by-Twos are the only right way, they don't believe eternal destiny is dependent on being inside OR outside of the Two-by-Twos. Therefore, the only rational answer to your question was "no". Are Two-by-Twos in blind bondage? "Yes" - with qualifiers. They are in bondage of trying to obtain the favour of God by their own works, which equates to the burdens laid upon them by workers. Qualified by saying "not all of them". I personally know some Two-by-Twos who do hold to grace, not works, doctrine. Romans 9 - 30 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith; 31 but the people of Israel, who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. 32 Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. Jesus continues to be that stumbling stone.
|
|
|
Post by Roselyn T on Jul 29, 2015 20:37:10 GMT -5
If you asked most professing people as directly as I asked exes here I think most in the fellowship would answer like these exes did. Hey Jesse, I found my original reply to your original question. It was worded like this: "So are we 2x2's condemned to hell? Answer with a yes or no."You changed the question after I answered the original one. I would have answered the new question differently, if at all. I would like you to delete my answer from all future references to this shifting "poll". Well it looks like you have "pinned Jesse down " Matisse.
|
|
|
Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jul 29, 2015 20:58:30 GMT -5
Jesse, the answer didn't allow any qualifiers, so of course it was impossible to answer "yes", for many reasons. Elizabeth I really appreciate the exes that answered the straight yes-no question I asked. I didn't just ask it, I practically hounded everyone who answer without qualifiers. I don't think qualifiers are necessary. Exes say lots of things about those in the fellowship, answering the question "Are 2x2s condemned to hell? with a straight yes or no showed me what you really believe, also it probably caused the people answering to stop and think about it before they answered. I know many people in the fellowship have said many things about other religions. If they had to answer the question "Are they condemned to hell, yes or no?" you would know what they think, and it would make them think before they answer. What really made me free to live "love your neighbor as yourself" was treating everyone I interact with as if they are just as saved as I think I am.
|
|
|
Post by fred on Jul 29, 2015 21:17:48 GMT -5
This is a very admirable attitude Jesse, I am really pleased to hear it.
Unfortunately, it is an attitude that is not prevalent in the fellowship, most certainly not in the land where I live. My observation is that it is a growing trend among the friends, not so much (if at all) in the ministry.
|
|
hberry
Senior Member
Posts: 743
|
Post by hberry on Jul 29, 2015 22:11:21 GMT -5
This is a very admirable attitude Jesse, I am really pleased to hear it. Unfortunately, it is an attitude that is not prevalent in the fellowship, most certainly not in the land where I live. My observation is that it is a growing trend among the friends, not so much (if at all) in the ministry. I am glad to hear it is a growing trend. Not in my neck of the woods, but my area is mostly 70 and up and definitely believe that you have lost your salvation when you leave the fellowship. Because, as we were told, the ministry is wrong. Would you say the trend is worldwide and among all age groups? (I'm not asking bcs I don't believe you, just wondering what your experience with the change has been.)
|
|
|
Post by elizabethcoleman on Jul 29, 2015 22:31:19 GMT -5
Jesse, the answer didn't allow any qualifiers, so of course it was impossible to answer "yes", for many reasons. Elizabeth I really appreciate the exes that answered the straight yes-no question I asked. I didn't just ask it, I practically hounded everyone who answer without qualifiers. I don't think qualifiers are necessary. Exes say lots of things about those in the fellowship, answering the question "Are 2x2s condemned to hell? with a straight yes or no showed me what you really believe, also it probably caused the people answering to stop and think about it before they answered. I know many people in the fellowship have said many things about other religions. If they had to answer the question "Are they condemned to hell, yes or no?" you would know what they think, and it would make them think before they answer. What really made me free to live "love your neighbor as yourself" was treating everyone I interact with as if they are just as saved as I think I am. I remember the hounding. Next time I'll desist from answering, remembering that the question is likely to change in retrospect. Why do you think you are saved? This is not a loaded question, I'm genuinely interested in your perspective on this.
|
|
|
Post by jondough on Jul 29, 2015 23:13:19 GMT -5
Elizabeth I really appreciate the exes that answered the straight yes-no question I asked. I didn't just ask it, I practically hounded everyone who answer without qualifiers. I don't think qualifiers are necessary. Exes say lots of things about those in the fellowship, answering the question "Are 2x2s condemned to hell? with a straight yes or no showed me what you really believe, also it probably caused the people answering to stop and think about it before they answered. I know many people in the fellowship have said many things about other religions. If they had to answer the question "Are they condemned to hell, yes or no?" you would know what they think, and it would make them think before they answer. What really made me free to live "love your neighbor as yourself" was treating everyone I interact with as if they are just as saved as I think I am. I remember the hounding. Next time I'll desist from answering, remembering that the question is likely to change in retrospect. Why do you think you are saved? This is not a loaded question, I'm genuinely interested in your perspective on this. Elizabeth, I know you didn't ask me the question, but I'll give you my answer. I think it's an adoption process. Because of Christ, we are made worthy to be adopted into his family. So since we have been adopted, and are part of the Family of Christ, wouldn't that mean we are saved? Fairly simple really.
|
|
|
Post by fred on Jul 30, 2015 1:15:10 GMT -5
This is a very admirable attitude Jesse, I am really pleased to hear it. Unfortunately, it is an attitude that is not prevalent in the fellowship, most certainly not in the land where I live. My observation is that it is a growing trend among the friends, not so much (if at all) in the ministry. I am glad to hear it is a growing trend. Not in my neck of the woods, but my area is mostly 70 and up and definitely believe that you have lost your salvation when you leave the fellowship. Because, as we were told, the ministry is wrong. Would you say the trend is worldwide and among all age groups? (I'm not asking bcs I don't believe you, just wondering what your experience with the change has been.) When I say 'trend' the starting point is zero. So yes, now there are a few who speak in support and a growing number who are prepared to listen, though not yet convinced. Generally, to suggest that other souls are saved and that they may continue to worship in another group is inviting stern 'pushback'.
|
|
|
Post by elizabethcoleman on Jul 30, 2015 1:46:51 GMT -5
I remember the hounding. Next time I'll desist from answering, remembering that the question is likely to change in retrospect. Why do you think you are saved? This is not a loaded question, I'm genuinely interested in your perspective on this. Elizabeth, I know you didn't ask me the question, but I'll give you my answer. I think it's an adoption process. Because of Christ, we are made worthy to be adopted into his family. So since we have been adopted, and are part of the Family of Christ, wouldn't that mean we are saved? Fairly simple really. I like it, Jondough. John 1:11-13.
|
|
|
Post by Jesse_Lackman on Jul 30, 2015 9:05:42 GMT -5
Elizabeth I really appreciate the exes that answered the straight yes-no question I asked. I didn't just ask it, I practically hounded everyone who answer without qualifiers. I don't think qualifiers are necessary. Exes say lots of things about those in the fellowship, answering the question "Are 2x2s condemned to hell? with a straight yes or no showed me what you really believe, also it probably caused the people answering to stop and think about it before they answered. I know many people in the fellowship have said many things about other religions. If they had to answer the question "Are they condemned to hell, yes or no?" you would know what they think, and it would make them think before they answer. What really made me free to live "love your neighbor as yourself" was treating everyone I interact with as if they are just as saved as I think I am. I remember the hounding. Next time I'll desist from answering, remembering that the question is likely to change in retrospect. Why do you think you are saved? This is not a loaded question, I'm genuinely interested in your perspective on this. Elizabeth the question really didn't change, I messed up the post. I'm sorry. To answer the saved question - I see the effect of "love your neighbor as yourself" and I am at peace.
|
|
|
Post by elizabethcoleman on Jul 30, 2015 20:42:59 GMT -5
Why do you think you are saved? This is not a loaded question, I'm genuinely interested in your perspective on this. To answer the saved question - I see the effect of "love your neighbor as yourself" and I am at peace. Thanks. An ongoing challenge for all of us to do well, but not a basis on which I would like to be judged at the judgement seat. I am struck by the absence of the context in which Jesus placed this command (Love the Lord your God...), and wonder what place his life, death and resurrection have in your life. No answer necessarily required. Just something to ponder.
|
|
|
Post by howitis on Jul 31, 2015 20:12:37 GMT -5
Roselyn, I'm not saying there should not be leaflets on DV and CSA, but I'm saying if there were some fault would be found, eg, its an organisation...they have publications other than the bible. I have also repetitively stated that these are societal issues and my feeling is that the current ARC is only discovering part of the ice berg in fact my belief is the government is actually failing victims and society in general by not being accountable for the many victims when it hasn't occurred within an institution! As far as the 'facts' not being quite in the mark in The Age article, read it 'word for word' just as I was challenged to. Cherie, Yes, I believe, what your research tells you appears to be correct, I also believe there is more to the story! Elizabeth, Yes I do realise that there was a journalist involved in telling that story, however your name and photos also appear there, just wondering when it is dragged from the archives in 60 years time or maybe 100 what conclusions will the reader arrive at, will they 'research' and publish a book and label that research as 'truth' also!
|
|
|
Post by CherieKropp on Jul 31, 2015 20:23:50 GMT -5
What "story" are you referring to?
For example: Why Doug didnt go in the work? Why he started looking into his church origins? Why he became an Anglican minister?
I realize the workers probably say they took the meeting out of his parents home - and that Doug said his father told the workers not to come back to his home. Two sides to that story.
|
|
|
Post by howitis on Jul 31, 2015 21:01:21 GMT -5
Cherie, A young man with businesses in his 20's have many other people and things in their lives besides what happens in their parents home.
|
|
|
Post by jondough on Jul 31, 2015 21:08:10 GMT -5
I've seen this guessing game go on for days now.
I'm not defending DP or his book. I have never even read the cover....but....
I think it wrong to dig up dirt on someone in order to discredit something they wrote. Now it sounds like the dirt you dug up was when he was in his 20s. How old was he when he wrote his book? If you want to discredit someones writing, quote what he wrote, and give your facts to the contrary.
If you guys went to where I was when I was 20.....my goodness....what I write here would take on a whole different meaning. I'm really glad that even the Friends that knew me back then don't judge me by what I did during those days.
Thanks to turning to Christ, I'm still alive today.
|
|